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MadisonBob
09-06-2004, 01:36 PM
I was wondering what you guy,s thought about the type of shafts that should be put on cues. Like tapers needed to play 9 ball. The weight of the shaft most desired by players. The color of the shaft when new like white in color verses med. to dark in color. And lastly the dia.12mm 12.5 mm are 13mm and so on. Madison BoB /ccboard/images/graemlins/smile.gif

woody_968
09-06-2004, 02:07 PM
As far as taper Im not sure how to describe it. I know I dont like the taper of Meucci, and I do like the taper on the cue I am playing with now. I think you know which taper it is /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif

I have never really thought much about the color, just how it feels when I hit balls.

Rod
09-06-2004, 02:32 PM
Good question Bob,

I might be a little different than most in some respects. Some may not even care or know how their shaft tapers, I'd imagine they know the size roughly.

I like a very tight straight grain, plenty of growth rings 15+ is fine, color isn't so important as long as it's not real dark. One thing I can't stand is sugar spots.

The two shafts I normally play with are 13 1/4 mm. I have a 13 and a 12.5mm. They start out at 13 1/4mm abt .0520 and taper to .550 at 12". The taper to 16" is .590, conical stiff taper, that's what I like. Pro taper shafts are just to limp for me not to mention I don't care for the straight cylinder effect. They need to taper larger on the way back as you can see. Weight isn't a big deal but I'd prefer it in the 4oz range, slightly heaver is ok. Ok that's what I like, or use it as a pole vault. LOL

Rod

Barbara
09-06-2004, 02:45 PM
Madison Bob,

There was a cuemaker by the name of Harold Queen out of Jacksonville FL who used to post on this board that once made a shaft out of purple heart wood. He loved it! Experimenting is a good thing!! /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif

Barbara

MadisonBob
09-06-2004, 03:05 PM
hello Barbara. i must say i,am sorry about a earlier post i made saying okay guy,s what do you think. i forgot theres many good woman players on this forum. i hope you and all the other woman on the forum will forgive. me i,ll watch this in the future. as for harold i,ve spoke with him many times he,s a nice guy. i think trying new things are what brings us all to a new level. sorry again to all the woman players on this forum you all are just as important to this forum as eny of the guy,s. Madison BoB

Leviathan
09-06-2004, 04:28 PM
I prefer a shaft that has a mild-to-moderate conical taper in its first 10 or 12 inches, has plenty of wood in its middle section, and is at least medium-stiff overall. Like Rod, I dislike the hit of shafts that have a cylindrical section up front. I like a hard, dense (heavy) shaft with a tip diam. of 12.75-13 mm. Couldn't care less about whiteness and sugar stain myself, but these are big issues for some buyers.

AS

drawshot
09-06-2004, 04:53 PM
do many cuemakers have a shaft that starts around 13mm then actually smaller thoughout the stoking area and then 13mm for about 12 - 14"? Then having the taper start...

Leviathan
09-06-2004, 05:17 PM
You mean kind of an houglass taper? Well no, I don't know of anyone who makes shafts that way on purpose. You might mention the idea to Bob Meucci, though; such a shaft would probably flex radically at its thinnest point, and this could reduce squirt by up to 270 percent.

AS

kenz54
09-06-2004, 07:01 PM
Great questions Bob, thanks for asking for our input. I like a stiff shaft(schuler pro) as white as possible with no dark areas. 114gr. is the weight I like and I like the tip to be from 12.75 to 13.0. Keep up the good work!

Rod
09-06-2004, 07:18 PM
Can't imagine who would do that. That would be big - smaller - then back to big as it tapers to the joint. If anything it would feel weird, not to mention being weak. But hey it ain't my shaft. LOL

brian_
09-06-2004, 11:25 PM
I have 2 shafts that do that, one is an old muecci and the other is an adam's. The muecci goes from 12.5 to 12.35 and the adam's goes from 13 to 12.8 both thanks to pervious owners and myself sanding them too much, now I know better. The muecci is well like any other muecci whippy yet it's what I've been playing with for the last 6yrs or so, can't seem to change. The Adam's hits just as hard as it ever did, that's the reason I got it cause I could break great with it.

I seem to remember reading on Muecci's site a long time ago that he toyed with the idea of an hourglass type taper.

Rod
09-06-2004, 11:41 PM
Seen lots of those shafts but never anyone with intentions of doing such. People sand shafts, bad idea for most, and they concentrate, (bad habit I suppose) in the center. Where do you suppose it wears most? LOL

tateuts
09-07-2004, 11:27 AM
I wish there were a standard regarding the tapers. Everyone seems to have different terminology.

I like a stiff shaft that stands up well at impact and doesn't buckle on off center hits. I also like a long (60") cue - and it's hard to find long cues that are stiff enough but still give you good feedback. I like a shaft that feels crisp and doesn't squirt too much.

I use a Predator 30" shaft and I'm pretty happy with the taper and performance, even though the feel and sound is pretty bad.

I like a shaft that's all white - any markings or dark spots on the shaft tend to distract my eye when stroking.

Chris

Barbara
09-07-2004, 11:45 AM
Aw, don't worry about it!!

Barbara

Rod
09-07-2004, 12:00 PM
[ QUOTE ]
I wish there were a standard regarding the tapers. Everyone seems to have different terminology.
<hr /></blockquote>

Yes they do to a degree. However you never see anyone advertise different shaft tapers, except Schuler. Then they don't put a number on it as in taper per inch. I think the cue makers assn or cue makers should advertise tapers. It's not like it's a big secret but maybe they want to keep people guessing, who knows.

They could say for instance,

Pro taper = straight taper for X amount of inches. Softer hit.

Modified Pro = tapers .002 per inch for X amount of inches, slightly firmer hit.

Super pro = tapers .004 per inch for x amount of inches, firm hit.

Billiard taper Etc.

Not exact of course but at least it gives people an idea. Some makers may only deal with one taper and don't have choices. Just a thought.


[ QUOTE ]
I like a shaft that's all white - any markings or dark spots on the shaft tend to distract my eye when stroking. <hr /></blockquote>


Mine doesn't have to be white but like you I don't like dark spots. I never even noticed that stuff until about 12 years ago. It's definetaly mental since the spot was always there. I guess we get picky sometimes later in life. LOL

Rod

MadisonBob
09-07-2004, 02:09 PM
Rod i agree about advertising different tapers in the fashion you described would be great. But most people would not know what x means. I think us cue makers would be explaining alot to most people.Maybe say send me a shaft you like and i,ll make it to those specs.Are advertise them as you said by the inch from the joint colar up.I have 30 different tapers ready to cut at eny time.And i can make eny taper someone might want. when i get a certain cue in the shop say a southwest i will measure the shaft by the inch and save the measurments on my computer for future reference. As for color i,ve found that a real white vacuam kilned shaft with a certain stiff taper will play loose when compared to a darker air dryed shaft with the same taper. because kiln drying rearanges the cell structure of the wood making it weaker but more stable has far as warpage is concerned. I like the air dryed shafts myself but most people don,t like the darker shafts but they play awesome. And they weigh about 5 grams more than kiln dryed when finished cut most of the time.Striaght grained darker air dryed shafts i think is were it is i use both dark and white shafts in the making of my cues it,s whatever the customer desires. Put that,s my thought,s some people mind not agree.I know i,am going out on a limb here but i think lamanated shafts don,t belong on a cue do to all the glueing involved in the making of them.when you hit the cue ball the energy is send down the center of the shaft to your hand which helps your brain record the feel and hit of the shot which i think all of the glue in the shaft destorts the vibes giving you a false perception of the shot.I will put them on a cue but only if the customer asks for it.I know some people will not agree to this post but these are my thought,s. /ccboard/images/graemlins/smirk.gif Madison BoB

AlabamaSlim
09-30-2004, 06:51 AM
I don't know, Bob. In my area, a lot of really good players really like the Predator shafts (basically, any butt with a Predator shaft). I personally like Predator, also. I run a pro shop and play leagues 5 nites/week. I own and have hit with a LOT of different types of cues. People ask me "which type of shaft is better", and, as all of us who have played for a long time know, there is no one answer. Each player likes a different hit. That's why there is so much competition between cue makers. When you play with a cue for a while, you get used to it. I think that when you start to win, you get confidence in that cue/shaft, and to you, that is the best shaft/taper/cue, etc. I have seen people buy Predator shafts, and then turn them down to 11mm or so, like a snooker shaft....why? The purpose and play of the Predator shaft has been compromised. However, in their mind, they are playing with a "Predator", and they will comment on how great it is. I couldn't hit the end of the table with it, but then, sometimes I can't hit it anyways.
Same holds true for the cue. Is a Scruggs better than a Phillippi, Blud, Gilbert, etc? If you BELIEVE it is better and that you shoot better with it, then it is better. The reality of it all, from what I believe, is that all the well know, proven cuemakers make a good cue...some have better quality control, and use better materials, some are better artistically, etc. A player looking for a new cue should hit with several different ones so he/she can feel the difference, and then narrow the choices down and settle in on a style, etc. What I like and what you like are probably different, but neither is "right or wrong". I grew as a snooker player in southern Alabama. I played for 20-25 years, then got away from it. I got back into it around 3 years ago. I tell people that I am looking for a cue that plays like that OLD Brunswick that I used to hide in the corner of the pool room, behind the refrigerator. I know it is out there somewhere.....
Alabama Slim
Bama Cues

ABChad
10-07-2004, 12:33 PM
Mad. Bob-

As far as shafts go... I've have another take on it... I have found that nice dark, sugar marked to all h#$l shafts play the best. It's always the ugly little ducklings that feel/play great. A friend of mine (and great cuemaker) enlightened me to this fact. I'm not sure why, but I found every ugly shaft I could after he told me this, and he's right on the money. I generally play with a 13mm pro taper or close variant though my carom cue has more of a straight taper. I also agree with you, laminated shafts have no place on nice cues! Have you ever seen a radially laminated shaft explode? I have!!! It was great! After almost three years of solid, humid, hard use, this &amp;%^$^%$@ shaft (brand name protected), literally exploded into slivers after a good solid break! Fortunately for J. the company sent him a replacement for free. Still, is it worth it? I've had hard rock maple shafts for 8 years that play as well as the day I got them. After all, would you put Uniroyals on your brand new Porsche???

Chad

"If you always do what you've always done, you'll always go where you've always gone."


PS&gt; Bob, can you make me the darkest, ugliest shaft on the planet? Hell, can you make it out of fiddleback?

Pied Piper
10-09-2004, 05:45 AM
I actually came aross an awesome shaft, about a year ago. Apparently this guy convinced some cue maker to create a radially laminated shaft, 8-10 splice i forget which, out of Macassar(sp?) Ebony. It was basically black ebony with streaks of red in it. Apprently a naturally occuring wood. It was 12.25 diameter, had a pro taper that was about 16-18 inch from the tip, about the same as a predator. The guy had two of these shafts, one with black water buffalo ferrule, and one with Ivory. The guy let me play with it, it felt a little heavier than a standard shaft, but I loved the way the thing hit, and the look of it was awesome.

JPB
10-09-2004, 08:07 PM
I don't care about color per se, but I know the dark shafts are often a sign of great wood. So I guess I say dark shafts. White shafts for some sales appeal.... feh.

I tend to like a stiffer taper, at least until I started playing w/ my Capone. So I guess by default I tend towards something like a stiff schuler shaft. I like my American taper schuler. Euro taper is nice for billiards, but the somewhat more flexible Amer. is nice for pool. I also have nice stiff laminated shafts that go to a carom type cue but have a pool type taper. They play very nicely. But whatever Capone does I like. Since getting the Capone that is what I usually play with. Excellent overall feel and playability. Softer than most of my other stuff but plays great. Looks better than my others too. And since I play bad, looks are extremely important to me. /ccboard/images/graemlins/smirk.gif

P.S. I didn't mean for the post to sound only like a plug for Capone, although I would recommend him to anyone, just that I found a cue I really like that is different from most of the stuff I played with before. I think it is because the "holistic" quality of the cue is right for me. Feel balance, hit, shafts, etc... I am happy I didn't try to force my prior preferences on a new cue is mainly what I was saying. Because I think stiff shafts have some merit, but I am more open to some other approaches now. Howver, I don't think I will ever like very whippy shafts. I think some taper helps rather than a long tube in the most general terms. YMMV

MadisonBob
10-11-2004, 01:43 PM
CHAD how are you? i agree with the darker is better and the curly shafts really play awesome there alot stiffer. if your wanting one email me. as for the pie shafts my earlier post should tell you what i think about those things. i,ve never seen one explode but i sure would have loved to be there. take care chad /ccboard/images/graemlins/smirk.gifmadison bob

Ken_4fun
10-29-2004, 04:34 AM
Madison Bob -

What happens to shafts after a number of years of use, or non use. I have several cues, I usually have different cuemaker make a cue for me every 6 months or so. I have cues from 2000s, 1990s, 1980s, 70's and even 60's. While I am another who plays with a preditor shaft (mostly), switched from cue to cue, I have played with the shafts that came with cue.
Is there a point where the shaft is "dry" and as hard as it is going to get? Does the shaft tend to get "stiffer" over time or does it pretty much stay the same.

Personally, I have found that heavier, less white, shafts tend to be better shafts and the snow white shafts seem to lose the stiffness and playablity quickly.

Any thoughts??

Checkers sell more than chess.

Regards
ken

Chris Cass
10-29-2004, 08:24 AM
Hi Bob,

Great question. I've always shot with shafts that were 4oz and wouldn't have it any other way. The shaft size imo should be 13MM and standard. I personally like 12.75MM to 12.8MM but 13MM is good for everyone that doesn't mind adding their own touch or slight touch. I like the taper to be a long pro taper with the taper begining at 12.8 for the first 11". Shaft color? I like the snow white Barry uses but I prefer the natural darker color. It seem to be less pronounce while sighting down the cue. Then again, I do have weak eyes and haven't ever shot with such a bright shaft. it is nice though and I couldn't find a better grain pattern.

I mentioned about the shaft being 13MM best for starting because it seems in time it's naturally end up smaller and about 12.75MM for me. When I first started playing it was always a 13MM shaft but as time went on I always liked playing with 12.5 or 12.6MM shafts but the older I got and as my eyes weakened I prefer the 12.8MM. To each his own I guess. BTW, love the way your cues look. Keep on taking suggestions from the players as it shows an open mind. That's good imo. One thing though, I would never suggest anyone buy a shaft under 4oz. That I wouldn't budge on. /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif

Regards,

C.C.

Deeman2
10-29-2004, 08:42 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Ken_4fun:</font><hr> Madison Bob -

What happens to shafts after a number of years of use, or non use. I have several cues, I usually have different cuemaker make a cue for me every 6 months or so. I have cues from 2000s, 1990s, 1980s, 70's and even 60's. While I am another who plays with a preditor shaft (mostly), switched from cue to cue, I have played with the shafts that came with cue.
Is there a point where the shaft is "dry" and as hard as it is going to get? Does the shaft tend to get "stiffer" over time or does it pretty much stay the same.

Personally, I have found that heavier, less white, shafts tend to be better shafts and the snow white shafts seem to lose the stiffness and playablity quickly.

Any thoughts??

Checkers sell more than chess.

Regards
ken <hr /></blockquote>

My two original Balabuska shafts were made in 1969 and seem as solid as ever. I played with them for 20 years, then put them away. I hit one of them for a few racks about a year ago and they seem as solid as ever. One ivory ferrel was replaced in 1979. Other than that, no special attention except they have been kept in very controlled environments. They are (as of 3/2004) both very straight, less than .010" TIR at the tip.

Deeman