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crawdaddio
09-08-2004, 08:44 PM
I sincerely hope they get this sorted out.

http://www.blackboxvoting.org/?q=node/view/78

[ QUOTE ]
Consumer Report Part 1: Look at this -- the Diebold GEMS central tabulator contains a stunning security hole
Submitted by Bev Harris on Thu, 08/26/2004 - 11:43. Investigations
Issue: Manipulation technique found in the Diebold central tabulator -- 1,000 of these systems are in place, and they count up to two million votes at a time.

By entering a 2-digit code in a hidden location, a second set of votes is created. This set of votes can be changed, so that it no longer matches the correct votes. The voting system will then read the totals from the bogus vote set. It takes only seconds to change the votes, and to date not a single location in the U.S. has implemented security measures to fully mitigate the risks.

This program is not "stupidity" or sloppiness. It was designed and tested over a series of a dozen version adjustments.

...........This problem appears to demonstrate intent to manipulate elections, and was installed in the program under the watch of a programmer who is a convicted embezzler.

According to election industry officials, the central tabulator is secure, because it is protected by passwords and audit logs. But it turns out that the GEMS passwords can easily be bypassed, and the audit logs can be altered and erased. Worse, the votes can be changed without anyone knowing, including the officials who run the election.

..................Does GEMS even work as advertised? According to testimony given before the Cuyahoga Elections Board, the Microsoft Access database design used by Diebold's GEMS program apparently becomes unstable with high volume input. This problem, according to Diebold, resulted in thousands of votes being allocated to the wrong candidate in San Diego County in March 2004. <hr /></blockquote>

I won't quote the entire article because it is very long. I suggest that you read it though, as it is very informative.

And we thought the '00 election and recount was an issue. Just imagine, you could vote for bush and actually have it tallied for kerry. /ccboard/images/graemlins/crazy.gif

Nooooooooo!!!!! /ccboard/images/graemlins/ooo.gif

Peace,
DC

highsea
09-08-2004, 09:54 PM
That's pretty scary. I didn't know the software was so flaky in these tabulators. Access??? Jesus, that's pretty lame. Every database guy out there knows how crappy of a program that is. LOl, it's why Microsoft came out with SQL.

As the article says, every piece of accounting software out there avoids these problems. Election counting systems need to have the same level of integrity. This looks like it was designed to be rigged!

I am going to call the King County Board of Elections and find out if they have done anything to mitigate this. To have such a poorly designed system is crazy.

Thanks for the heads-up CD.

-CM

crawdaddio
09-08-2004, 11:19 PM
Completely off topic--what the heck does your thing under your location mean?


DC---just curious.......

highsea
09-09-2004, 02:58 AM
In A.D. 2101
War was beginning.
Captain: What happen ?
Mechanic: Somebody set up us the bomb.
Operator: We get signal.
Captain: What !
Operator: Main screen turn on.
Captain: It's You !!
Cats: How are you gentlemen !!
Cats: All your base are belong to us.
Cats: You are on the way to destruction.
Captain: What you say !!
Cats: You have no chance to survive make your time.
Cats: HA HA HA HA ....
Captain: Take off every 'zig' !!
Captain: You know what you doing.
Captain: Move 'zig'.
Captain: For great justice.

http://www.planettribes.com/allyourbase/b/sign14.jpg

-CM

nhp
09-09-2004, 03:38 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote crawdaddio:</font><hr> Completely off topic--what the heck does your thing under your location mean?


DC---just curious....... <hr /></blockquote>

It's from a popular video game a few years ago that was made in Japan. When it came to the US, the dialogue was poorly translated.

Qtec
09-09-2004, 09:28 AM
[ QUOTE ]
This looks like it was designed to be rigged!
<hr /></blockquote>

Dont you know that the GOPs will stop at nothing to win this election?

California are suing Diebold. there should be an investigation.

Q

Wally_in_Cincy
09-09-2004, 10:19 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Qtec:</font><hr> .... Dont you know that the GOPs will stop at nothing to win this election?... <hr /></blockquote>

Dick Cheney, hacker supreme, somehow got access to the programs.

"Mr. President, the takeover is complete. Welcome to the New World Order."

highsea
09-09-2004, 11:23 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Qtec:</font><hr>Dont you know that the GOPs will stop at nothing to win this election?<hr /></blockquote>Lol, I can count on you to see a GOP conspiracy every time Q. /ccboard/images/graemlins/tongue.gif

A more likely scenario is that local issues could be "sold" to the high bidder. There are way too many counties using this system, (not to mention the ones that don't), for it to be an effective way to control a Presidential election. There wouldn't be enough time to adjust all of them in one night. Statewide maybe, but Nationally? I seriously doubt it.

The programmer who designed the system was a convicted embezzler. What better way to make a buck than sell a local race or ballot measure?

For example, Say that Washington had a ballot measure to allow private landowners to log old-growth timber, or to build on privately owned wetlands. I can imagine Greenpeace or the Wilderness Society paying big bucks to beat that.

Another scenario I could imagine would be on gambling laws. This issue crops up every election. One side wants it limited to Indian casinos only, the other side wants private (non-Indian) casinos to be legal. There are huge bucks at stake, and either side would be more than happy to shell a lot of money to win.

JMHO. I don't see this as a giant GOP conspiracy, but more likely a money-making scam by the programmer.

-CM

crawdaddio
09-09-2004, 12:54 PM
[ QUOTE ]
There wouldn't be enough time to adjust all of them in one night. Statewide maybe, but Nationally? I seriously doubt it. <hr /></blockquote>

I believe there is a central server of some kind that can tally all machines nationwide.

[ QUOTE ]
The programmer who designed the system was a convicted embezzler. What better way to make a buck than sell a local race or ballot measure? <hr /></blockquote>

Exactly. However, I don't know what the nature of his, or others at Diebold, connections to politicians. Who is buying? I have my suspicions.

[ QUOTE ]
For example, Say that Washington had a ballot measure to allow private landowners to log old-growth timber, or to build on privately owned wetlands. I can imagine Greenpeace or the Wilderness Society paying big bucks to beat that. <hr /></blockquote>


Or the land owners/loggers/developers paying to pass it.

Good points. It seems almost certain that this is not a bug, and was developed intentionally. The question is for who?

highsea
09-09-2004, 01:12 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote crawdaddio:</font><hr>I believe there is a central server of some kind that can tally all machines nationwide.<hr /></blockquote>No, on the Federal level, the Electoral College reports to the House of Representatives. The electoral votes are tallied there manually, and the results are certified.

-CM

highsea
09-09-2004, 01:23 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote crawdaddio:</font><hr>It seems almost certain that this is not a bug, and was developed intentionally. The question is for who? <hr /></blockquote>Occam's Razor. The person in the best position to benefit is the one who controlled the design, i.e. the programmer who set up the dual-book system.

Considering his past, my first guess is that profit is the motive rather than politics.

-CM

Qtec
09-10-2004, 01:23 AM
http://why-war.com/features/2003/10/diebold.html#excerpts

scroll down and read the Diebold memos and e-mails. Seems more like incompetence than anything else.

Q

highsea
09-10-2004, 05:16 AM
Pretend I'm from Kansas, Q. Cut and paste the things you want to comment on, and add your comments, I might choose to respond. You know, we may agree, then again, we may not. It depends on your point, and how effectively you argue it. This is a discussion forum, so let's discuss.

I can't read your mind, and I don't want to jump to conclusions.. If you can't take the time to make your point, how do you expect me to make a response, and why should I?

I'm not going to read your link and try to imagine what it is you want me to respond to. CD put up a good post, and it's something that I think needs attention. I've tried to offer my take on it, based on what is offered in the OP. If you have something to add, by all means, add it. As they say, we'll run it up the flagpole and see who salutes.

-CM

Qtec
09-10-2004, 08:31 PM
Excerpts from the Diebold Documents
Elections are not rocket science. Why is it so hard to get things right! I have never been at any other company that has been so miss [sic] managed . [source: http://chroot.net/s/lists/announce.w3archive/200110/msg00002.html ]

In response to a question about a presentation in El Paso County, Colorado: For a demonstration I suggest you fake it. Progam them both so they look the same, and then just do the upload fro [sic] the AV. That is what we did in the last AT/AV demo. [source: http://chroot.net/s/lists/support.w3archive/199903/msg00098.html ]

I have become increasingly concerned about the apparent lack of concern over the practice of writing contracts to provide products and services which do not exist and then attempting to build these items on an unreasonable timetable with no written plan, little to no time for testing, and minimal resources. It also seems to be an accepted practice to exaggerate our progress and functionality to our customers and ourselves then make excuses at delivery time when these products and services do not meet expectations. [source: http://chroot.net/s/lists/announce.w3archive/200110/msg00001.html ]

There are hundreds of memos just like these.
The question really is, how did this Comp get the contract in the first place and who was stupid enough to give it to them?

Q[ sorry but I was pressed for time on the last post]

Qtec
09-10-2004, 08:46 PM
I need some answers! Our department is being audited by the County. I have been waiting for someone to give me an explanation as to why Precinct 216 gave Al Gore a minus 16022 when it was uploaded. /ccboard/images/graemlins/shocked.gif Will someone please explain this so that I have the information to give the auditor instead of standing here "looking dumb". [source: http://chroot.net/s/lists/support.w3archive/200101/msg00068.html ]

LOL
Q

highsea
09-10-2004, 09:19 PM
Sounds like they were having a problem with one of their voting machines too.

I don't think things are going to well for Diebold. I'm glad I use a mail in ballot! /ccboard/images/graemlins/crazy.gif

-CM