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View Full Version : League Players - Have you ever lost on purpose?



LivinGr8
09-10-2004, 03:52 PM
/ccboard/images/graemlins/shocked.gifIn league play, I am really beginning to wonder how many in league play, at one point or another during the year, lose games to enhance there average. I think this may be an increasingly growing occurrence. What avenues are currently in place within the various leagues to ensure that this does not occur (esp. in BCA sanctioned games)? /ccboard/images/graemlins/shocked.gif
Have you ever been caught??? For Shame!!!

UWPoolGod
09-10-2004, 04:52 PM
Not sure how you can lose games to increase your average. /ccboard/images/graemlins/confused.gif
What average are you referring to? What league? Personally I have never dumped a league match or game for that matter. I have too big of an ego to do that. I am 35-5 in APA over the past 3 sessions with each loss going to an SL7. I have now played one 3man team 9ball ACS league and that really doesn't figure into dumping cause you get money back for how many points you earn each night. Someone would have to be nutty to do that.

Stretch
09-10-2004, 05:05 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote LivinGr8:</font><hr> /ccboard/images/graemlins/shocked.gifIn league play, I am really beginning to wonder how many in league play, at one point or another during the year, lose games to enhance there average. I think this may be an increasingly growing occurrence. What avenues are currently in place within the various leagues to ensure that this does not occur (esp. in BCA sanctioned games)? /ccboard/images/graemlins/shocked.gif
Have you ever been caught??? For Shame!!! <hr /></blockquote>

Well i won't stand on the pulpit and damn Sandbaggers to eternal damnation (even if it does sound a bit to soft). It's an all too previlent occurance. So for the sake of trying to put something in place that would discourage this........(hopefully there's more ideas than my poor offering)

Here's one idea. I see most of the abuse leading up to playoff time when teams are trying to jocky for the most favorable matchups. For this reason, i think that a teams hanycap be set half way through the season forceing them to play the remainder of the season at the standard they set before the playoff run even begins. That way, you get all the weaker teams (and sandbaggers) in the B division with suitable rewards, and all the hard playing "honest" teams in an "A" division with the most rewarding returns.

I know, it's not perfect, and maybe way off base, but that's my 2 cents. St

rukiddingme
09-10-2004, 07:43 PM
I believe that in the apa league world it is not called sandbagging but "handicap management".
In the hustling world it is what is called "strategical management planning for fleecing a mark ".
I know all on this forum would never do such a thing.
/ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif
ruk

Rod
09-10-2004, 08:53 PM
When I played league, of course I have( not very often though). I'm not going into a full blown explanation. The end result for me was it wasn't going to effect my rating one way or another or anyone else for that matter.

People get caught up in this numbers deal. If you want to give a game away, go ahead. If it however effects credability, then don't do it. The ones that do are only hurting themselves,(screw them but don't dwell on it). Sooner or later it will cath up, just play your game and forget them and numbers. There isn't a perfect system nor will there ever be.

Rod

cycopath
09-10-2004, 09:15 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote UWPoolGod:</font><hr>I am 35-5 in APA over the past 3 sessions with each loss going to an SL7. <hr /></blockquote>

Wow. You must be the best SL4 in your area!



J/K... /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif

BLACKHEART
09-10-2004, 10:44 PM
ABSOLUTLY...JER

dg-in-centralpa
09-11-2004, 09:52 AM
Never did and never will. My captain once asked me to lose a game 'cause we had the match already won. He wanted to keep my handicap down. I told him to go F$#% himself. I proceeded to win the game. Next year he didn't ask me back to shoot.

DG - plenty of others will sandbag in my league

BLACKHEART
09-11-2004, 10:07 AM
/ccboard/images/graemlins/smile.gifUnfortunatly, the teams that move on to Vegas, DO control their handicaps &amp; if you want to compete with them as a team you will have to also. If you just want to play your best &amp; don't care about how it effects your handicap, then maybe a HANDICAP LEAGUE is not for you. The handicap leagues REQUIRE that your 5 players not exceed 23 points(for example). When you reach the point where all of your players are 5's or above,then you no longer can compete. Plus when you do reach your magic 6 ranking &amp; you are constantly getting beat by sandbagging 4s you will no longer be of use to your team...JER

BLACKHEART
09-11-2004, 10:34 AM
/ccboard/images/graemlins/smile.gifI once took a team to Vegas &amp; we got to the final 16. Moving on to the final 8 was a team of 5 female players &amp; a male captain. THEIR HANDICAPS WERE 2-3s &amp; 4-2s(APA). How could a team reach that level, without controling their handicaps?...JER

Pelican
09-11-2004, 12:16 PM
Hell, I lose enough without doing it on purpose /ccboard/images/graemlins/crazy.gif

Pel - the honest one

Stretch
09-11-2004, 06:32 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote BLACKHEART:</font><hr> /ccboard/images/graemlins/smile.gifUnfortunatly, the teams that move on to Vegas, DO control their handicaps &amp; if you want to compete with them as a team you will have to also. If you just want to play your best &amp; don't care about how it effects your handicap, then maybe a HANDICAP LEAGUE is not for you. The handicap leagues REQUIRE that your 5 players not exceed 23 points(for example). When you reach the point where all of your players are 5's or above,then you no longer can compete. Plus when you do reach your magic 6 ranking &amp; you are constantly getting beat by sandbagging 4s you will no longer be of use to your team...JER <hr /></blockquote>

So that's the ugly truth. Well maybe it's time to call this "new game" something besides 8 ball. To begin with, like #### once said "8 ball was never meant to be played for points". The abuse and manipulation of statistics for competative advantage stains everyone. If this is how players need to play, in order to get anywhere then something is very wrong. So perhaps we can come up with a name that befits this new hybrid of 8 ball. After all, playing for points and averages is not really 8 ball is it? Why not call it what it is........
Point-ball?
Bushwack?
Break-and-bail?
Handycrap?
Ooooo i feel the juices flowing now. i might even break into rhyme.
We need players Monday night, so grab your cue, prepair to fight.
This will be our battle cry, "lay down sandman, lest we die".
chorus
One, two, three, four, we need them to really score.
Five six seven eight's, waist of time to stay up late! St

Sid_Vicious
09-11-2004, 07:05 PM
I don't know if it's the same thing, but I will play low persentage shots when the game doesn't have a chance of costing the team a win. Thing is I make some great shots that way so if all balanced out, I win about the same in the end. Sandbag or lose on purpose...no. I see people do it all the time though.

Sid

Pelican
09-12-2004, 08:52 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote BLACKHEART:</font><hr> /ccboard/images/graemlins/smile.gifUnfortunatly, the teams that move on to Vegas, DO control their handicaps &amp; if you want to compete with them as a team you will have to also. <hr /></blockquote>

Not always but it is tough. Our team finished the spring session with 102 points. The was a record for our league operator. The thing about this is, we were already qualified for City Cup so we could have laid down but we didn't. It caused us to have a member move up during City Cup from a SL5 to a SL6. We won City Cup by going straight thru on the win side. When we hit the 4th round in Vegas we encountered one of the teams you talk about. 4's that shot like our 5's and 6's and a 5 that walked over one of our 6's like a high level 7. Like you say it does happen, we just didn't do it. We shot to win every game of every match. When a shooter would get behind our saying was "Choke the Goose". Our team Captain started this because of the picture of the frog choking the birds neck to keep from being swallowed - Never Give Up! I'm not making excuses as we have shot teams like this before and won. It just wasn't our time to go higher. Poop happens. Just saying that it is possible to make it there the right way - just harder to do. While you are correct that a lot of teams do this to maintain an advantage in the higher level tournaments I feel it is a shame that they put wining ahead of fair play and playing for the enjoyment of the sport. As long as we are dealing with humans this problem will exist.

Later, Pel /ccboard/images/graemlins/smile.gif

Cane
09-12-2004, 12:37 PM
No sandbagging on our league team... of course, we have no BCA, APA, TAP or any decent sanctioned league in this area, so it's all about local pride and there is no chance to go to Vegas or anywhere else. Besides, all of our team members are WAY too egotistical to dump a game. Not only do we compete against our opponents, we compete against each other for total points each week and season total. Our team goal is to shut out everyone we play and our individual goal is to score higher than anyone else on our team.

As of now, our ABA (Arkanasas Bar Association) league team is 31.5 rounds ahead of second place (not quite, but almost insurmountable). Our goal is to, with 21 weeks remaining in the league, have a 60 round lead over second place, win the trophies for the top three shooters in the league and basically just blow the doors off of all our competition. We can't sandbag at all and still pull that off.

Playing is fun, winning is orgasmic!!!

Later,
Bob

poolguy123
09-13-2004, 12:37 PM
No way, and if anyone on my team does- they will be missing their sl7 the next time they play!
We have noticed a couple players per session who seem to be way too skillful for their rating. /ccboard/images/graemlins/confused.gif

woody_968
09-13-2004, 01:36 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote BLACKHEART:</font><hr> /ccboard/images/graemlins/smile.gifUnfortunatly, the teams that move on to Vegas, DO control their handicaps &amp; if you want to compete with them as a team you will have to also. <hr /></blockquote>

This is one of the main reasons I dont play in the APA. If you dont control your cap its hard to compete. If you do then its no fun from week to week, who likes to miss balls?

UWPoolGod
09-13-2004, 01:51 PM
Wow. You must be the best SL4 in your area! &lt;--cyco

Got that right /ccboard/images/graemlins/tongue.gif /ccboard/images/graemlins/laugh.gif