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View Full Version : "Players Choice" or "Old Masters" Chalk



recoveryjones
09-17-2004, 07:12 PM
I'm looking to purchase some "Players Choice" chalk made by National Chalk or an old batch of Masters chalk by Tweeten.The old Masters chalk was discontinued several years ago so fat chance on my request for that..LOL.

Apparently the old Masters chalk was made with corn starch and was far superior than the new stuff as far as coating a tip goes.Apparently corn starch got too expensive, henceforth they stopped using it when making their chalk.

Players Choice chalk(endorsed by Efren Reyes, Nick Varner, Lori Jon Jones and Oliver Ortman) was also superior in quality but may be now discontinued as well, as people balked at the price of it.All I could find by National Chalk was their cheap stuff and I found none of their "Players Choice" blend.If anyone knows where there might be some of these old batches of chalk kicking around or if there is any other brand of chalk that you can highly recommend, it would be appreciated.RJ

HallofFame
09-18-2004, 04:27 AM
I recently purchased some boxes of 12's from Beads and Billiards that were the old brand. From what I've heard, CHINA is now making the Tweeten chalk, anything with the American Flag on the paper wrap is NEW and pretty much worthless. I don't think you'll be able to get a gross quantity box without the flag on the paper wrap.

I'm not sure if this theory about the flag is correct, or maybe some of the bad chalk was made with the "old" paper wrap on it; but we did notice that when chalking with the "new" flag type chalk most of the chalk just fell like snow onto the floor while the "old" chalk actually stuck to the tip.

Also, I use the tan chalk on my home table; so there's a chance you might be able to get larger quantities in Green or Blue since that is the more traditional color and more of that color was made. If you have a local billiard store maybe they have the old stock since small stores may have purchased this chalk years ago and still have quantities left over.

Joe

Wally_in_Cincy
09-18-2004, 06:51 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote recoveryjones:</font><hr> .....Apparently the old Masters chalk was made with corn starch and was far superior than the new stuff as far as coating a tip goes.Apparently corn starch got too expensive, henceforth they stopped using it when making their chalk......<hr /></blockquote>

I read that thread at AZB and I don't buy into this theory. After all, how expensive is freaking corn starch?

I have noticed a slight diffence between the old stuff and the darker flag-logo stuff but the difference is very small. The new stuff works fine for me. It's still better than Silver Cup /ccboard/images/graemlins/smile.gif

Scott Lee talked to Skip Nemechek (President of Tweeten) and Skip claims that nothing has changed. So who knows?

Anybody else out there who knows Mr. Nemechek?

HallofFame
09-18-2004, 07:07 AM
Hi again,

There's 116 pieces (partial gross box) of Master blue chalk for sale on ebay for $20, the box is all ratty and old so it appears to be the old stock; you can e-mail the seller to find out.

Joe

Pied Piper
09-18-2004, 07:25 AM
He's a fun one for ya'll. Go to wal-mart, dicks sporting goods, or some other sports place that concentrates on golf and hunting, and pick up a 6-pack of chalk. Leave your tip tool at home, and play 54 games with the stuff. If anything has ever made you question your ability with english, that would be the stuff. I did it in a local tournament. I left everything at home except my cue, and had to make an emergency run to the closest place. I was using a lot of center ball and natural roll that night }=O)

Fred Agnir
09-18-2004, 08:28 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Wally_in_Cincy:</font><hr> Scott Lee talked to Skip Nemechek (President of Tweeten) and Skip claims that nothing has changed. So who knows?

Anybody else out there who knows Mr. Nemechek? <hr /></blockquote>Ditto.

Shameless plug to follow.




I spent several hours with Skip both on the phone and at the factory for the Tip Article in this month's InsidePool Magazine (Sept 2004). I don't believe anything anyone "has heard" about the company's manufacturing practices.

Fred

recoveryjones
09-18-2004, 10:39 AM
OK I admit it, I got excited and maybe jumped the gun on this post based on info aquired from another forum.My sincerest apologies to any offended.

At least 3 other posters from a different forum claim there is a difference.If it was just one person I wouldn't have got excited, but three got me to thinking.A few posters here think that the info given to me was wrong.I didn't say personally that there was a difference, I said APPARENTLEY there was a difference, because really I don't know.The reason I posted here was to hopefully get some more opinions and find out if their claims were true.

I post on these forums and have found a lot of valuable info from other pool players, which I've appreciated.I know that some of the stuff posted here is BS and some is really helpful and things need to be sorted out.I'm just a player looking for any edge I can to improve my game and if there is better chalk out there , I want the best.

In summarary, I'm not saying that the three guys(AZ posters) who like the OLD masters chalk are full of it, nor am I saying that the guys (Fred, Wally)here are on the money with their thoughts on the matter.I really don't know...LOL.. however,now I'm activley(curiosity killed the cat) on the hunt for some OLD masters chalk to find out for myself.RJ

ps.The new Masters chalk works fine on my Moori medium tip providing I remember to (in my pre-shot routine) apply chalk with EVERY shot.If I apply the chalk properley, any miscues incurred would be from a faulty stroke.

Rod
09-18-2004, 12:16 PM
I don't know about the corn starch or necessarly buy into that statement but--- Masters changed their chalk in the 90's to a lead free chalk. The color is slightly different especially the green. I have some old green and blue. Blue really doesn't appear to be much different in color but the new green is some what lighter. It all works.

Rod

recoveryjones
09-18-2004, 06:11 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Rod:</font><hr> I don't know about the corn starch or necessarly buy into that statement but--- Masters changed their chalk in the 90's to a lead free chalk. The color is slightly different especially the green. I have some old green and blue. Blue really doesn't appear to be much different in color but the new green is some what lighter. It all works.

Rod <hr /></blockquote>

Thanks Rod, Taking lead out makes more sense than the cornstarch rumours.They've now taken lead out of gas,paint and pool chalk for health reasons.As far as the Old Master chalk goes....I'm dieing to try it.RJ

Fred Agnir
09-23-2004, 10:49 AM
I really felt it necessary to return this thread to the top so that I can help to squash the overun of misinformation that runs amok in our pool world. By allowing this to continue on the internet, the misinformation just get multiplied at a quicker rate until falsehoods become the truth. So, here it is:

1. The only thing that has changed in the formulation of Tweeten's Masters Chalk is the change in the entire pigment industry (paints, dyes, colorants) to get away from lead.

2. The formulation is obviously a trade secret, but no ingredients have changed. That is, if there was something in it 80 years ago, it's still in it now. If it wasn't in it 80 years ago, it isn't in it now. I will not disclose whether any material speculated is or is not present.

3. Tweeten Fibre Company has no business plan to ever manufacture any of its products anywhere else but in Chicago, IL. Any product that is coming from overseas that looks like a product from Tweeten Fibre is a blatant copy by looks only. Distributors of true Masters Chalk should be able to tell the difference, though the majority of players may not be able to tell by the label.

That's it. Finito. Hopefully, you'll all tell your friends that all the rumors are just that: rumors.

Hope this helps someone. At the very least, the Tweeten Fibre Company.

Regards,

Fred Agnir

LivinGr8
09-23-2004, 05:02 PM
Thanks for the post. "One less thing"[FG]
It has been a question raised here in east texas at the pool rooms I frequent, and if ever I chose not to use blue it would be on the table. Still feel that way, but that's just a preference.

recoveryjones
09-23-2004, 10:08 PM
Thanks Fred on your well written observations on Tweeten chalk.It's the most reasonable explanation yet (on a formula change) and much appreciated.Also it comes directly from Tweeten.

The fact that Tweeten took the lead out of there chalk is definitley the most believable explanation I've heard as taking lead out of paints and dyes etc. was common in the past decade for health reasons.As for the cornstarch rumours, they sound a whole lot less reasonable to me, but even so I don't know about it either.

Did removing the leaded coloring dye effect the chalks coating or playing performance?

Some say most definitly so, others like Fred A think that's total insanity.As for me I can't make a statement because I haven't tried the old vs the new in a side by side comparision to give my viewpoints.

Would Tweeten admit to the fact that taking lead out of the coloring dye would lower their chalks performance?

Defininitly not, they're in the chalk selling bussiness.Having said that, they don't have to worry (or are worrying) because they are still one of the best selling chalks out there and arguabley the very best quality available.

Do I think a lead free coloring dye vs a lead filled coloring dye could have any influence on the chalks composistion or play ability?

Once again I don't have the two chalks to make that comparision and therefore don't know.However, I do know this, that most leaded paints in a pre 1990 era were OIL BASED and most of the newer paints are WATER BASED.

Were lead based dyes too in fact OIL based?

I don't know, but if they were that MIGHT change the chalk's composistion as the coloring dye is intermixed with all the other ingrediants of the chalk.Once again I'm ignorant on the subject and don't know.

Who's side am I on in this chalk discussion,Fred's or the lead lovers?

No-ones, I'm neutral because I don't know, however I soon will as some good samaratian is sending me a few pieces of the old chalk in the mail.For me, the only way to find out, is find out for yourself or in some cases go freakin' crazy....LOL. That I know.I'll keep you posted. RJ

ps.Poolplayers are fickle individuals.If the leaded players feel the old chalk helps there game playability performance wise or psychological.....keep using it.For those that think it's all insanity....go lead free and play on.

Rod
09-23-2004, 11:00 PM
RJ,

I had several fliers posted in the pool room with a warning of lead in chalk. It stated "Please Don't Eat The Chalk". As I recall it come from the health dept and we were required to post them. I don't have the fliers any longer nor do I remember the exact year. 90's sometime.

I thought by then all paints dyes ect. were lead free. Somehow lead was found in chalk though. I think it was lead poison to a small child. By that time the chalk color already changed. The older, darker green, blended with simonis much better. While the new lighter green is much more visable. To me it seems sort of florescent. I will say though, I never noticed any difference in performance at all. I think it's just another mental trip for some. If you can draw the ball two table lengths, what performance could you be missing? LOL

~~~rod, still has a few old, new peices. I don't use them, I'm saving them.

recoveryjones
09-23-2004, 11:30 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Rod:</font><hr> RJ,

If you can draw the ball two table lengths, what performance could you be missing? LOL


Approximentally half a table....LOL... bring on the magical old stuff, throw out my new Moori tip and find me an old (some say old Moori's are better, Oh My God not another thread please)Moori and sand down my dime shaped tip and make it rounder.

Two table lenghts of draw....you've got a mighty fine draw stroke there Rod.Good on you.RJ

Fred Agnir
09-24-2004, 06:56 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote recoveryjones:</font><hr> Some say most definitly so, others like Fred A think that's total insanity.<hr /></blockquote>I think you misread me. It is certainly possible that "old chalk" exists and that it means "with lead." If that's what others are wanting, then it exists. And if you can buy it, do so. But, the new stuff is not made in China and the formulation hasn't changed.

Me, I shoot with Masters Blue. Not Masters Green. But, I'll do Masters Tan. That's how picky I am. I know that even the pigment change is difference enough to the discernable player.

[ QUOTE ]
Would Tweeten admit to the fact that taking lead out of the coloring dye would lower their chalks performance?<hr /></blockquote> I think they'd be ready to admit that there might be a difference. But, they make different formulations for different chalks now. It's all in a player's personal preference.

Fred

Scott Lee
09-24-2004, 01:30 PM
and one more thing...about the American Flag on SOME Master chalk... Skip said that he had the flag printed on a few batches after 9/11 happened, purely as a patriotic move. Not all new Master chalk has the flag, and certainly it has nothing to do with the formula. This all is such nonsense. If you have a good stroke, it doesn't matter what chalk you use. I do believe there is a difference in quality between American made and Chinese. Personally I prefer Master, regardless of color. If you allow your mind to believe something long enough, it becomes truth to you.

Scott Lee

Rod
09-24-2004, 01:40 PM
Scott,

I'd never noticed the american flag on any peices. That was thoughtfull. I'm in agreement with you, color makes absolutely no difference. Like you I prefer masters but some others will do fine as well. Some of that cheap stuff is real gritty and doesn't cover as well.

[ QUOTE ]
If you allow your mind to believe something long enough, it becomes truth to you.
<hr /></blockquote>

Yes it sure will, see it all the time. To the extent of someone tells lies so often even they believe it! LOL

Rod

Wally_in_Cincy
09-25-2004, 07:49 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Rod:</font><hr> Scott,

...Like you I prefer masters but some others will do fine as well. Some of that cheap stuff is real gritty and doesn't cover as well....<hr /></blockquote>

Silver Cup sponsored the US Open. The matches would start with 2 pieces of SC on the rails but after a few games there would be cubes of Masters laying around.

During the tv breaks Rob Sykora would run over and grab them and tell the players to keep them out of sight /ccboard/images/graemlins/smile.gif

When Niels was playing Hohmann, Niels got a can of Coke during a break. Sykora came over and made him move it out of sight. Fortunately Rich R. and Mrs. Rich R. were able to guard Niels's Coke for him /ccboard/images/graemlins/smile.gif

c.holtz009
09-25-2004, 09:00 AM
The only difference I've noticed in the Master's chalk is some cubes seem "grittier" than others. I've noticed this for a while, and the "grittier" stuff seems to work better than the other.
Maybe I'm crazy, but it's just what I've noticed.

recoveryjones
09-27-2004, 07:40 PM
Here's an imformative article about chalk that contains lead:
http://www.findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m0950/is_n6_v97/ai_18429263

Rod
09-27-2004, 08:11 PM
Thanks for the link RJ. I've never read that one but others similar. There was an article I read when we had to post warning signs. Sounds like the masters green was the worst of masters. You know the blue color really looks the same but like I said the green is far different. Jeez, then and now I use green probably as much or more than blue. I'm contaminated! LOL

Rod