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09-22-2004, 10:45 AM
Good interview I think he is asking what a lot of Americans want to know.
ZAHN: So you think it was the president's job today to beat up the U.N.?
BIDEN: It was his time to tell the truth, to level, to just flat level with the American people, with the United Nations and say, look, you may not have liked my going in. You may not have liked how I have handled it since then, but just two months ago you made a firm commitment when you voted for the U.N. Security Council resolution that you'd help Allawi train his forces, that you would help him financially, that you would forgive debt, that you'd provide protection for the U.N. security force.
You have done none of that. You owe it to Mr. Allawi. You owe it to everyone to keep your commitment and get over -- basically, get over the fact you're mad at me. This is about all of our interests.
ZAHN: All right. But, Senator, if you believe the U.N. has been so woefully inadequate, what makes you think John Kerry's plan that he announced yesterday would extract more cooperation from the U.N.? What would be different?
BIDEN: Well, by the way, by the time John Kerry is president, as he says, if he is, this may be Lebanon. There may be no plan. The president keeps dumbing this down so much, that it makes it harder and harder.
ZAHN: So do you think the U.N. is totally irrelevant now? BIDEN: I think the president's becoming irrelevant. You're sitting out as a delegate from any one of your countries. What did the president just do today? He let you off the hook. He let you off the hook. He said everything's going fine.
ZAHN: Why don't you think the president took on the U.N. today? Is there a political calculation?
BIDEN: You know, Paula, I swear to God, I don't know. This is so much bigger than George Bush or John Kerry. I just don't get it.
I just simply do not -- and, by the way, it's not just that I don't get it. It's not just that I don't get it. Dick Lugar doesn't get it. Chuck Hagel doesn't get it. John McCain doesn't get it. All of us who deal with foreign policy up here, we don't get it.
ZAHN: Senator, here's what I don't understand. We've heard members of your party turn up the heat on the president, as well as your Republican colleagues in the Senate, Senator Hagel saying this is a war we can't win. We are in big-time trouble over there. Given how heated the tensions are around this issue, can you explain to us tonight why John Kerry has the numbers he has when it comes to the public trust in him vs. the president to control the situation in Iraq? They have much greater faith in the president than they do in John Kerry.
BIDEN: You know, I know this is going to sound corny to you. That's above my pay grade. That's about politics. I'm talking about substance. I don't care what John Kerry's number is.
I care about the kids that we have sitting over there. I don't give a damn whether John Kerry wins or loses or George Bush wins or loses. All I know is, this entire program to try to win the peace in Iraq is, in fact, going down the drain, because the president keeps saying stay the course, instead of change the course. What is the plan, Mr. President? I don't care whether you win or lose. What's the plan you're going to have in January? How are you going to hold elections, Mr. President? How are you going to train these forces, Mr. -- what are the two things he says, Paula?
We have to train the Iraqis to supplant the Americans, No. 1. And, No. 2, we have to hold elections in order to have a free and Democratic Iraq. Neither are happening. The secretary of defense said in February on your program, we've trained 210,000 people. I told you then that was malarkey. Last Friday, he said we've trained 95,000 Iraqis. That is malarkey. He said we trained 32,000 Iraqi policemen. Not one single solitary Iraqi policeman has completed the 24-week training program, not one single solitary one.
So why aren't we telling the truth? And what's going to happen, Paula, you continue this happy talk, and after the election, all hell breaks loose, and there's no elections, the American people are going say, no matter who is president, I have had enough. And then, Paula, we're not going to have red alerts. We're not going to have orange alerts. We're not going to have bronze or whatever the color alerts are. We're going to have a decade of red alerts, because you're going to right in the middle of the Middle East, another Afghanistan.
ZAHN: Senator, final question for you, is a civil war all but inevitable in Iraq?
BIDEN: Absolutely not inevitable, if we move now, if we do the four or five things that not just John Kerry's said, that Dick Lugar said, that Joe Biden said.
If we do that, we have a genuine chance of keeping on track the elections and actually being able to do what we need today do, which is have a strategy, the exit strategy, of holding elections next December, and over -- gradually over the next three years drawing down our commitment there. That is still possible. But if we continue to -- quote -- "stay the course," Katie bar the door. Who knows what's going to exist in January.
ZAHN: Senator Biden, thank you so much for spending time with us tonight. We appreciate it.
BIDEN: Thank you, Paula.
ZAHN: And when we come back, the White House reacts to Senator Biden's criticism, and much more.
You may want to check the the responce to Biden it was joke. http://www.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0409/21/pzn.00.html
ZAHN: So you think it was the president's job today to beat up the U.N.?
BIDEN: It was his time to tell the truth, to level, to just flat level with the American people, with the United Nations and say, look, you may not have liked my going in. You may not have liked how I have handled it since then, but just two months ago you made a firm commitment when you voted for the U.N. Security Council resolution that you'd help Allawi train his forces, that you would help him financially, that you would forgive debt, that you'd provide protection for the U.N. security force.
You have done none of that. You owe it to Mr. Allawi. You owe it to everyone to keep your commitment and get over -- basically, get over the fact you're mad at me. This is about all of our interests.
ZAHN: All right. But, Senator, if you believe the U.N. has been so woefully inadequate, what makes you think John Kerry's plan that he announced yesterday would extract more cooperation from the U.N.? What would be different?
BIDEN: Well, by the way, by the time John Kerry is president, as he says, if he is, this may be Lebanon. There may be no plan. The president keeps dumbing this down so much, that it makes it harder and harder.
ZAHN: So do you think the U.N. is totally irrelevant now? BIDEN: I think the president's becoming irrelevant. You're sitting out as a delegate from any one of your countries. What did the president just do today? He let you off the hook. He let you off the hook. He said everything's going fine.
ZAHN: Why don't you think the president took on the U.N. today? Is there a political calculation?
BIDEN: You know, Paula, I swear to God, I don't know. This is so much bigger than George Bush or John Kerry. I just don't get it.
I just simply do not -- and, by the way, it's not just that I don't get it. It's not just that I don't get it. Dick Lugar doesn't get it. Chuck Hagel doesn't get it. John McCain doesn't get it. All of us who deal with foreign policy up here, we don't get it.
ZAHN: Senator, here's what I don't understand. We've heard members of your party turn up the heat on the president, as well as your Republican colleagues in the Senate, Senator Hagel saying this is a war we can't win. We are in big-time trouble over there. Given how heated the tensions are around this issue, can you explain to us tonight why John Kerry has the numbers he has when it comes to the public trust in him vs. the president to control the situation in Iraq? They have much greater faith in the president than they do in John Kerry.
BIDEN: You know, I know this is going to sound corny to you. That's above my pay grade. That's about politics. I'm talking about substance. I don't care what John Kerry's number is.
I care about the kids that we have sitting over there. I don't give a damn whether John Kerry wins or loses or George Bush wins or loses. All I know is, this entire program to try to win the peace in Iraq is, in fact, going down the drain, because the president keeps saying stay the course, instead of change the course. What is the plan, Mr. President? I don't care whether you win or lose. What's the plan you're going to have in January? How are you going to hold elections, Mr. President? How are you going to train these forces, Mr. -- what are the two things he says, Paula?
We have to train the Iraqis to supplant the Americans, No. 1. And, No. 2, we have to hold elections in order to have a free and Democratic Iraq. Neither are happening. The secretary of defense said in February on your program, we've trained 210,000 people. I told you then that was malarkey. Last Friday, he said we've trained 95,000 Iraqis. That is malarkey. He said we trained 32,000 Iraqi policemen. Not one single solitary Iraqi policeman has completed the 24-week training program, not one single solitary one.
So why aren't we telling the truth? And what's going to happen, Paula, you continue this happy talk, and after the election, all hell breaks loose, and there's no elections, the American people are going say, no matter who is president, I have had enough. And then, Paula, we're not going to have red alerts. We're not going to have orange alerts. We're not going to have bronze or whatever the color alerts are. We're going to have a decade of red alerts, because you're going to right in the middle of the Middle East, another Afghanistan.
ZAHN: Senator, final question for you, is a civil war all but inevitable in Iraq?
BIDEN: Absolutely not inevitable, if we move now, if we do the four or five things that not just John Kerry's said, that Dick Lugar said, that Joe Biden said.
If we do that, we have a genuine chance of keeping on track the elections and actually being able to do what we need today do, which is have a strategy, the exit strategy, of holding elections next December, and over -- gradually over the next three years drawing down our commitment there. That is still possible. But if we continue to -- quote -- "stay the course," Katie bar the door. Who knows what's going to exist in January.
ZAHN: Senator Biden, thank you so much for spending time with us tonight. We appreciate it.
BIDEN: Thank you, Paula.
ZAHN: And when we come back, the White House reacts to Senator Biden's criticism, and much more.
You may want to check the the responce to Biden it was joke. http://www.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0409/21/pzn.00.html