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View Full Version : The defense industry and the Pentagon



Leviathan
10-01-2004, 11:37 AM
The defense industry and the Pentagon, working together to support our troops and, uh, defend freedom!

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/3708584.stm

AS

PQQLK9
10-02-2004, 07:59 AM
I read that story this morning in the Washington Post. Talk about nepotism???
Oh well,thats our tax dollars at work.
And the poor people on welfare get a hard time. /ccboard/images/graemlins/smile.gif

highsea
10-02-2004, 12:30 PM
That dumb broad really screwed Boeing, and she deserves jail for it. But I'd still rather see Boeing tankers than Airbuses.

Ross
10-02-2004, 10:38 PM
Screwed Boeing? Boeing was dangling a job in her face to get favoritism. Common practice in private industry. Promise a high paying job to a politician while they are still in office and they will make sure government dollars go your way. She and Boeing were trying to screw you and me but she got caught.

highsea
10-02-2004, 11:14 PM
One could also say that she was blackmailing Boeing with the contract to win personal gain, and inflating the price to cover her "new" position. Tell me, why hasn't Boeing been fined? Do you know that it was Boeing's scheme, or you attacking them just because they are a huge company?

I have a lot of experience with Boeing, having worked for several different tier one contractors over the years. Boeing doesn't need these kind of business practices. The profits are there anyway, and they would much rather have the contract than risk a scandal. There is a LOT of oversight on Government aerospace contracts. Far more than in the civilian sector. Every single process is audited. Boeing knows this and has extensive experience in the process. I have trouble believing that Boeing was the one that put this scheme forward.

This business hurt Boeing a lot more than it hurt her. These tankers would have been built in the Northwest. So this mess hurt Seattle and my own local ecomony as well.

nhp
10-03-2004, 04:32 AM
[ QUOTE ]
At the sentencing, she apologised, saying she was "truly sorry for my actions".

<hr /></blockquote>

Nobody's ever sorry unless they get caught.

highsea
10-03-2004, 04:40 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote nhp:</font><hr>Nobody's ever sorry unless they get caught. <hr /></blockquote>Ain't that the truth. The guy she was dealing with at Boeing should go up the river with her.

Ross
10-03-2004, 10:00 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote highsea:</font><hr> One could also say that she was blackmailing Boeing with the contract to win personal gain, and inflating the price to cover her "new" position. Tell me, why hasn't Boeing been fined? Do you know that it was Boeing's scheme, or you attacking them just because they are a huge company?

<hr /></blockquote>

The article also said heads rolled at Boeing. But you are right, neither of us know the details. But your explanation of an innocent Boeing being manhandled by this woman sounds a bit far-fetched compared to my assumption that this was business as usual - military contractors offering future lucrative jobs to current office holders as a way of purchasing preferential treatment.

Qtec
10-03-2004, 11:31 AM
[ QUOTE ]
I have trouble believing that Boeing was the one that put this scheme forward.
<hr /></blockquote>
if thats what you believe then you are living in Never-Never land. /ccboard/images/graemlins/laugh.gif

Just do a google on 'Boeing fined'for example.
Boing have a long history of bribes and corruption. Its a well know fact!
They gave her a job, her daughter a job and who knows what else. She should have gotten a lot more than 9 months.

Q [ with all due respect CM, I dont think you ever negotiated in Billions of $$$$.]

Ross
10-03-2004, 02:29 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote highsea:</font><hr> I have trouble believing that Boeing was the one that put this scheme forward.
<hr /></blockquote>

http://washingtontimes.com/upi-breaking/20040827-092518-2502r.htm

"Darlene Druyun, who had served as the Air Force's No. 2 acquisition official, began working at Boeing in January 2003. Then, last November, she and Boeing's chief financial officer at the time, Michael Sears, were fired for trying to cover up what turned out to be illegal employment negotiations."

Highsea, you suggested I might be biased against big business. Maybe so, but I have some reasons to be so inclined. Big business, especially military contractors don't have a very clean history when it comes to trying to maximize profit even if it means fleecing the taxpayers or circumventing the law. Boeing had the motive (more money for the company) and the means (allowed to promise jobs to current government office holders) and a bad track record (repeatedly fined for ignoring pollution laws, inspection laws, etc). I think your quickness to assume that Boeing was innocent might show your own, even stronger, pro-business bias.

Fair_Play
10-03-2004, 02:41 PM
Q, Highsea,

Excuse me for stepping in, forgiveness.

Big business and ethics? Just like people, it depends on the corporate climate, set by a board of directors, the CEO and the CFO. Fairness, morality?? What a joke. The Industrial Defense Complex... ah, the agony of it all! /ccboard/images/graemlins/confused.gif

When in another post I mentioned the "Limousine Liberal" crowd, that was perhaps not Fair Play.. there are those of a like stripe in every crowd. The disenfranchised have not got a voice, they are victims of both sides. /ccboard/images/graemlins/blush.gif

Libertarian and Green have a lot to give, however seems that both Republicans and Democrats have a lock on a 'friendly' (hah!) adversity, to the exclusion of any other point of view. /ccboard/images/graemlins/tongue.gif

Best Regards, /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif

Fair Play

(and, Q, my Prejucice is against Kerry, not the party!)

highsea
10-03-2004, 04:27 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Ross:</font><hr>Then, last November, she and Boeing's chief financial officer at the time, Michael Sears, were fired for trying to cover up what turned out to be illegal employment negotiations."

I think your quickness to assume that Boeing was innocent might show your own, even stronger, pro-business bias.<hr /></blockquote>I admit I have a pro-Boeing bias. Many years of dealing with them, their effect on our local economy in the Northwest, pride of my own small contributions over the years, etc.

When the scandal broke, Boeing was devastated by it. Yes, Condit took immediate steps and fired the people involved, and shortly afterwards he was forced to resign by the board.

But the damage was done, and the Company's reputation was sullied by it. What I can tell you, from personal experience, whether you believe me or not, is this is not representative of Boeing's corporate culture.

Of course there are political considerations in every big deal Boeing does. They're the nations largest exporter. Without Boeing, the US's trade deficit would be 10 times worse than it is. And it's true that not every single executive is going to be a choir boy. That's the nature of a company that has the political connections that Boeing has to have to do business.

But I also believe that Boeing would have won this contract without the shady dealings, and though they cannot be held harmless, because Sears agreed to the deal, they should not be painted as a bunch of crooks either. And, yes, they will probably be punished by the Pentagon over it, because Sears worked for Boeing, and the company will be held responsible for the actions of one executive.

But if Airbus gets the contract, I will be pissed. I want that money spent here in the US, with American workers and their families the ones that benefit from the deal, not the French and Germans, just because it saves the Pentagon a couple bucks.

Ross
10-04-2004, 10:33 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote highsea:</font><hr>
But if Airbus gets the contract, I will be pissed. I want that money spent here in the US, with American workers and their families the ones that benefit from the deal, not the French and Germans, just because it saves the Pentagon a couple bucks. <hr /></blockquote>

I agree with this completely!