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stickman
05-15-2002, 04:02 PM
I knew this would make you very happy, so I thought I'd pass it on just in case you missed it.

The Delaware state senate on Tuesday approved one of the toughest anti-smoking measures in the nation. The bill bans lighting up in bars, restaurants, hotel lobbies, and other public indoor places. (poolhalls)

The measure passed after lawmakers rejected amendments to restore exceptions for bars and casinos. Several states have indoor smoking bans, but make exceptions for bars.

TomBrooklyn
05-15-2002, 04:54 PM
Prediction: It won't be widely enforced, particularly in pool halls, and especially in bars.

If it is enforced...

Prediction: Organized crime will open bars that allow smoking. The local constabulary will be paid to leave them alone. Remember Prohibition? It was the greatest thing that ever happened for organized crime until they got into drug trafficing.

Cuemage
05-15-2002, 05:24 PM
One win for us non-smokers! I'm sooooooooooooo tired of choking on cigarette smoke, that I...well, I won't go there.

Tha Cuemage

Troy
05-15-2002, 06:07 PM
The California smoking ban has been in effect since Jan 1, 1998 and includes Bars, Restaurants, Pool Rooms, etc., ALL public places, even sports stadiums. The ban was initially difficult to enforce in Bars and Pool Rooms, but with stiff fines most places now comply.

Troy

<blockquote><font class="small">Quote: TomBrooklyn:</font><hr> Prediction: It won't be widely enforced, particularly in pool halls, and especially in bars.

If it is enforced...


Prediction: Organized crime will open bars that allow smoking. The local constabulary will be paid to leave them alone. Remember Prohibition? It was the greatest thing that ever happened for organized crime until they got into drug trafficing.

<hr></blockquote>

heater451
05-15-2002, 07:16 PM
(In case you didn't know)

The ban was implemented under employment law, not as an attack on private freedom of choice. It exists, in order to protect any non-smoking employees from second-hand smoke.

05-15-2002, 07:24 PM
Yeah, they have a smoking ban in NY. There's a pool hall I frequent there called the Golden Q. Really beautiful hardwood floors there....at least they used to be, before the state decided that putting out ashtrays was breaking the law!

rackmup
05-16-2002, 08:16 AM
Troy...I'll never forget that night...on December 31st, I was in a sports bar, celebrating the ringing in of the new year (we were actually in California for the Rose Bowl) when at midnight, after toasting with cheap champagne, the coctail waitresses discreetly walked form table-to-table, removing all of the ash trays.

Regards,

Ken

Troy
05-16-2002, 11:03 AM
Actually, the smoking ban was via a referendum vote on a statewide ballot. The advertising touted the measure as "employee protection" and the referendum passed by about 65% of the vote. (Interesting side note --- I was a bartender at the time and ALL employees were smokers.)

Troy

<blockquote><font class="small">Quote: heater451:</font><hr> (In case you didn't know)

The ban was implemented under employment law, not as an attack on private freedom of choice. It exists, in order to protect any non-smoking employees from second-hand smoke. <hr></blockquote>

shojingod
05-16-2002, 03:42 PM
Well that is good. That will help our game very very much.

05-16-2002, 10:15 PM
California pool tournaments in bars : everyone is outside and the only indoor patrons are the shooters. Who says pool is not a spectator sport? I like to watch my peers technique on a particular game, but I like to smoke a lot. what happened to freedom of choice?

JimS
05-17-2002, 06:51 AM
Freedom of choice becomes abuse of others when the choosen behavior causes them harm. There are responsibilities that come with freedom of choice. The way I see it, I have the right to do most anything I want to do as long as it does not hurt others in some way. When my behavior harms others then it's not freedom it's abuse, it's sociopathic behavior.

A sociopath knows the difference between right and wrong and doesn't care. He/she just does what they want to do and if it hurts others...tough. That's the reason we have laws. People choose to not do the right thing because they want to do what they want to do and don't care if it hurts others. When that is the case laws have to be made to protect us from the abusers of freedom of choice.

I'm a smoker.

05-18-2002, 01:07 AM
why isn't there a choice between smoking and non-smoking bar, pool halls, etc.? The health explanation doesn't allow an owner to have the right to post what type of patrons he caters to. there are many who would like to post that they are a smoking estblishment, then it wouldn't affend any non-smokers. That is the freedom of choice I was talking about. Maybe the prohibition idea isn't too far fetched?

Ken
05-18-2002, 06:35 AM
The matter of smoking in public is a difficult one due to the lenience with which smokers have been treated in the past. When they were in the majority they were permitted to smoke practically everywhere. At the last real job I had it was interesting to watch the smokers, particularly one who smoked a pipe. He would go through a ritual that lasted about 30 minutes, meticulously cleaning and filling it. Then would come the smoking of it. Doing this more than once a day he had a fine day of pleasure without needing too many work breaks to add variety to the day.

It is interesting that homeless people have been banned from libraries, ostensibly due to their smelling bad from infrequent hygiene. You have to get pretty close to one to notice that. Nevertheless, smokers have no qualms with stinking up the air for many yards around themselves. At the recent Chemsford tournament I had one sit down in the bleachers next to me, light up, and hold his cigarette where I got more smoke than he did. Smokers are very curious people.

If you have ever noticed you will see that it is customary for women to hold the cigarette up and away so they will not get the smoke in their face? They have no concerns, however, for others in the region around them. A curious breed, for sure.

They will tell you that they are addicted and should be forgiven. We treat other addictions by trying to end them but not so with smokers. The question of smoking in public establishments is starting to be answered by considering the health and well being of the workers. The funny thing is that even some of the smokers themselves seem to object to second hand smoke. A very curious breed.
KenCT

shojingod
05-18-2002, 06:06 PM
Ever heard of something called segregation. Segregation is controlled by the local social culture. What do you think a bar social culture is? The segregation would not be race based but addiction based. Therefore all bars would be smoking. Being this way would make them true to the social culture but not to the service of the general public. This is another reason why we license business's.

Ken
05-18-2002, 09:39 PM
We have tea rooms, crack houses, bars, opium dens, wine tastings, powder rooms and other locations where people can go to consume their substance of choice. Yet the smokers all want to be free to consume their tobacco at all of these locations and everywhere else they have a mind to. They need to recognize that they are not welcome and find a place of their own in which to practice their vice.

Bring back the "smoker" where people used to go in order to smoke. I agree they should be segregated from the rest of the population. The law is moving in that direction. Now they no longer smoke in grocery and department stores; they stand in the doorways and smoke. That's against the law but they don't think they need to obey laws they don't like.

The anti-litter laws don't apply to them. I can go out to the end of my driveway and pick up a hundred cigarette butts within a minute and I've never thrown a single one away. This thing that they worship so much suddenly becomes something that they cannot even dispose of in a socially accepted manner. They have to throw it out the window and burn down a forest and a few houses to boot. Some of them get careless and burn up themselves and the rest of their family by smoking in bed.

They claim to have the "right" to smoke wherever and whenever they please. A curious breed, for sure.
KenCT