PDA

View Full Version : Tony Danza has on pool player



Popcorn
10-07-2004, 07:19 AM
If you are reading this now (10:20 eastern) in a few minutes Tony Danza is having a pool player on.

Popcorn
10-07-2004, 07:10 PM
Don't know if anyone saw it. They set up two pool tables, (not sure why) and the kid did a few of the lamest trick shots that exist. Why, why, why, could he not have run off a few balls and showed he can play. Who has the say about what the player does? Is pool really such a complete joke to them, (TV people I mean) they don't even want to see someone play a little, just the stupid trick shots. The kid should tell them what he wants to do. I remember Lassiter saying he never did exhibitions because no one had an interest in seeing the game played, just the dumb trick shots which he refused to do. Sure he was not much of an ambassador for pool and a little cranky at times, but at least he was real and kept his dignity.

cueball1950
10-07-2004, 07:24 PM
wimpy sounds like earl don't he... earl is our wimpy of today... landon just made a few trick shots... they only allowed him so many minutes of air time so its no wonder he cannot shoot many balls.......wonder who set up the shots....................................mike

Popcorn
10-07-2004, 07:46 PM
I completely understand that but, I can break and run off a rack in a little over a minute or so and that always brings a look of amazement to people how easy a good player makes the game look. It provides a perspective as to the skill a player has. I just wish they would at least do that and preserve a little of the dignity of the game. pool is not trick shots it's a game of skill. I don't know, it just does not show one thing about the game.

Stan Shuffett
10-08-2004, 08:22 AM
When we got in from NYC late last night Stan checked our email and the message boards. I was somewhat surprised to read the posts by "Popcorn" to Landon's A+ performance on The Tony Danza Show as "lame, showing a loss of dignity, and dumb trickshots".

Let me enlighten you a bit on how the TV aspect of Landon's performances work: 1. The segment producer chooses what Landon performs--whether it's pure pool or trickshots. 2. The producer(s) usually want to see something "visual with high probability" that will show Landon at his best with trickshots. 3. The producers want Landon to mention his success in tournament play--which they say is "amazing". (Did you happen to hear Landon say on the show that he had won over 400 matches against adult players? Apparently not...)What wasn't available to viewers was seeing Landon and Tony play a game of straight pool during rehearsal the day before the show. Tony, as well as members of the crew, said that Landon was really something for a 10 year old.

How you can say that a 10 year old, performing fun shots on LIVE NATIONAL television, cannot be a good role model or inspiration for others is beyond me. When when we were in New Orleans a couple of summers ago, Sunni Gambino of the APA, asked Landon to do an exhibition at the Hyatt Regency for their group. She was thrilled to get to see Landon perform in person because, according to her, after Landon's segment on Ripley's, Believe it or Not! aired a youth league with 40 children was formed. Tom Simpson of the BCA commented to Stan at the Derby City Classic last year that performing on the talk shows is great PR that cannot be bought. Perhaps you missed Landon on Good Morning, America this June when he demonstrated the "fundamentals of the stroke--set, pause, and finish" to Charlie Gibson. Landon isn't just all about trickshots.

Landon spends minimal time on exhibition preparation. There has been a steady demand for Landon to perform and our family has had tremendous opportunity to travel as a family all over the country. Landon's sister and I do not play pool but we impress many individuals as being a "pool family" which generates only positive feedback.

Stan said not to waste my time making a response because not many others saw that it was necessary but as a proud mother I feel it's my responsibility to share how TV works and most importantly defend my son. By the way, Landon played in an open tournament in Richmond, Kentucky last Sunday, won the winners' bracket, and finished second to Larry Price in the finals.

Mr. Popcorn, exactly how old are you because you sound like another 10 year old to me. I believe you lost YOUR dignity by picking on a child.

Connie Shuffett

Steve Lipsky
10-08-2004, 08:29 AM
I am not sure you read Popcorn's post very clearly. It had nothing negative to say about Landon at all. He was simply saying that, in his opinion, pool should be showcased differently.

He had nothing negative to say about a 10-year-old, I assure you. His post was purely against TV producers.

- Steve

Wally_in_Cincy
10-08-2004, 08:35 AM
popcorn is a good guy and very wise, but sometimes I think he needs an optimism transfusion /ccboard/images/graemlins/smile.gif

Don't take it personal.

BTW, I met Stan at DCC in January and he's a real nice guy.

Stan Shuffett
10-08-2004, 08:38 AM
Steve,
I did read Popcorn's post several times before I responded and I didn't miss his point. I understand that Popcorn wants to see more "pure pool" but that isn't what is wanted of Landon's performances. If you reread his comments on Lassiter's keeping his dignity Popcorn is implying that Landon has lost his.
I didn't misread anything. Popcorn is being negative to Landon and his performance.
Connie

Popcorn
10-08-2004, 09:23 AM
I am sorry you are not able to take criticism, it comes with the choice to be a public person. My criticism was not of your son but of the presentation which was your basic dump pool trick shot show that TV seem to like. My question was, who decides what is to be done. I believe you answered it, you are just puppets on the TV producers who in most cases don't seem to know the first thing about pool. Your sons current draw is the novelty of his age in a sport that is most thought of as an adult sport. It would be nice if instead of his age being the draw it be the skill that I am sure he has.

#### leonard
10-08-2004, 09:28 AM
Popcorn I had Luther play an exhibiton in Troy just after he had won the Worlds Title. He put on a great show and was his personable self.

The only thing he said to me was I know your missing on purpose but I want to watch you shoot. In that last rack you had many easy shots but you played a tough shot then every shot was stop,stop.

When I played exhibitions in the room I managed I always wanted the exhibitionist to win the game and preferably by running 100+s and out. My feelings were that I could be seen everyday but this maybe their only chance to see Mosconi,Lassiter etc shoot.####

Popcorn
10-08-2004, 09:43 AM
My comments about Mr. Lassiter refer to the fact when he was a many times world champion, considered the best player in the world, promoters would want to book him for exhibitions. If it was to be nothing but trick shots and the same old junk he would pass. If it was to play an exhibition match that was different. Yes, dignity was the right choice of words. His position and status in the sport at that time, entitled him to be picky about what he would or would not do. With all due respect, I am sorry, your son is no Luther Lassiter, not yet anyway.

Stan Shuffett
10-08-2004, 09:44 AM
I took your criticism but still wanted to express my opinion and side of the story. That's what this board is for, right?

You may see us as puppets; we see it as an opportunity to showcase Landon's talents and enjoy the experience as a family. We fully understand that Landon's age is the major factor in his appearing on these shows. I can take all the criticism necessary because we are in the public. What I do take offense to is your implication that Landon's show was lame and that he lost dignity by doing it. I think you're a bit harsh when you're talking about a child.


If you take offense to Landon's appearances/trickshots then you have the right to turn the channel.

Connie

Popcorn
10-08-2004, 10:38 AM
I understand you are a parent and we will just let this go but! It is just as impressive to set up an actual game scenario and have him pocket a ball going say three rails for position. That I guess was all I was getting at. I apologize and am sorry you took it that way. I would have thought you would say something like, " Yea, we would like to have him play a little, but what can you do that is what they want". I thought you would agree with me. Oh well.

Stan Shuffett
10-08-2004, 11:21 AM
Popcorn,
We aren't as far apart on this as it may appear. I can assure you that Stan has lobbied at each show for them to allow Landon to demonstrate his skills at running balls, positional play, fundamental awareness, etc. Good Morning, America did allow a little pool education on their show. However, show producers know what their audiences want to see and it's called the "wow factor". Landon and Stan would much rather demonstrate skills than novelty.

I agree with you that setting up a game situation is much more impressive for pool players and Stan and Landon have set up 9 ball runs at first rehearsals only to get no response. After the first trickshot is done, they are "wowed".

Another thing that we keep in mind is that compensation and the experiences are significant. And we do insist on instilling in Landon behaviors and manners that make him a good ambassador for the game.

I think we both have the best interest of pool in mind.

Connie

9 Ball Girl
10-08-2004, 11:35 AM
Hey Popcorn, I agree with you in that it would be nice to see actual playing/positioning, etc. But, on the other hand, don't you think that seeing that would appeal more to pool players than non pool players?

I was talking to Steve Lillis this past weekend at the World Summit and he was preparing my contest table to do some trick shots. After being asked by someone in the crowd why it is that 9 ball is always the game shown on TV and answering that 9 Ball is the preferred TV choice because it's the quickest game compared to 14.1, 1 pocket, etc., he then said that trick shots is the most popular as far as the viewing audience is concerned.

I prefer seeing good shotmaking and positioning than trickshots. But I'm a poolplayer and I know how to appreciate good positioning skills. But for the regular Joe out there, they would probably find that as boring as watching paint dry. JMO

Popcorn
10-08-2004, 11:51 AM
After reading what I wrote, my wife also pointed out that the audience of the Danza show is mostly stay at home moms and older people. The little banter between Mr. Danza and Landon, the shot out of the mouth and so forth, probably appealed more to that audience and I should not have judged it so harshly. I think she is right. She is always right.

Deeman2
10-08-2004, 12:30 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Popcorn:</font><hr> I think she is right. She is always right. <hr /></blockquote>

Good answer. I think you have hit upon the secret of a good marriage, world peace and lower alimony payments.

Deeman

Billy
10-08-2004, 12:34 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Stan Shuffett:</font><hr> When we got in from NYC late last night Stan checked our email and the message boards. I was somewhat surprised to read the posts by "Popcorn" to Landon's A+ performance on The Tony Danza Show as "lame, showing a loss of dignity, and dumb trickshots".

Let me enlighten you a bit on how the TV aspect of Landon's performances work: 1. The segment producer chooses what Landon performs--whether it's pure pool or trickshots. 2. The producer(s) usually want to see something "visual with high probability" that will show Landon at his best with trickshots. 3. The producers want Landon to mention his success in tournament play--which they say is "amazing". (Did you happen to hear Landon say on the show that he had won over 400 matches against adult players? Apparently not...)What wasn't available to viewers was seeing Landon and Tony play a game of straight pool during rehearsal the day before the show. Tony, as well as members of the crew, said that Landon was really something for a 10 year old.

How you can say that a 10 year old, performing fun shots on LIVE NATIONAL television, cannot be a good role model or inspiration for others is beyond me. When when we were in New Orleans a couple of summers ago, Sunni Gambino of the APA, asked Landon to do an exhibition at the Hyatt Regency for their group. She was thrilled to get to see Landon perform in person because, according to her, after Landon's segment on Ripley's, Believe it or Not! aired a youth league with 40 children was formed. Tom Simpson of the BCA commented to Stan at the Derby City Classic last year that performing on the talk shows is great PR that cannot be bought. Perhaps you missed Landon on Good Morning, America this June when he demonstrated the "fundamentals of the stroke--set, pause, and finish" to Charlie Gibson. Landon isn't just all about trickshots.

Landon spends minimal time on exhibition preparation. There has been a steady demand for Landon to perform and our family has had tremendous opportunity to travel as a family all over the country. Landon's sister and I do not play pool but we impress many individuals as being a "pool family" which generates only positive feedback.

Stan said not to waste my time making a response because not many others saw that it was necessary but as a proud mother I feel it's my responsibility to share how TV works and most importantly defend my son. By the way, Landon played in an open tournament in Richmond, Kentucky last Sunday, won the winners' bracket, and finished second to Larry Price in the finals.

Mr. Popcorn, exactly how old are you because you sound like another 10 year old to me. I believe you lost YOUR dignity by picking on a child.

Connie Shuffett <hr /></blockquote>

Hello Mrs Shuffett,I'm sure as a proud parent of an obviously talented child you are thrilled to see the exposure and positive effect Landon brings to the table with his skills and appearances on national TV.And I may add that I am as well.

But the debate here with Popcorn is one that you may not fully understand though.As a player of pool many times the age of Landon both Popcorn and I have probably seen the ol' trickshot routines many times over and over.Not to say this is a bad thing because it certainly is not but I more than indirectly agree that there are not enough of 'shows' that demonstrate the pure skill and devotion that Landon evidently posesses with this wonderful sport of pool.I think imo that Popcorn and I are asking that maybe in one of Landon's future appearances that you have a serious talk with the producers to see if he could spend 30 seconds or less of his allotted time showing the skill aspect of pool.A suggestion would be to set up the same simple straight-in shot then have Landon stop his cue,set up the same shot then draw, then set up the same shot and have him follow.Then take a few seconds to explain how positioning the cueball for the next shot is so important and can be highly entertaining.Most producers are of course non pool players but may find this interesting as well as entertaining and somehow find a place for this in his show.

My post is purely in the best interest of pool and in no way am I saying anything negative of your son or his performances.You guys are in the right spot to continue making the public aware of what a beautiful game pool can really be.

I've seen your boy in person and on the tube and am not afraid to say how impressed I am with his skills.In the future though please give some thought to showcasing them.

All the best to your pool playing family Connie

jmo,Billy

Stan Shuffett
10-08-2004, 01:39 PM
Hi Billy,

Thanks for the positive comments about Landon. We appreciate them very much!

I guarantee you that I have been relentless in pursuing segment time for Landon that would show just the kind of thing that you mentioned. It has been very frustrating to me to not be able to have Landon engage in what it is that he actually does with the game. One show that we were on had six producers and we rehearsed for each one with changes made along the way. The final producer called the shots..... If we start with basic shot making(stop,follow,draw) for producer number one, then you can rest assured that it's gone by the second producer. They have a mind set that is nearly impossible to break. As Connie mentioned earlier, GMA did allow Landon to demonstrate a proper stroke. It all boils down to the fact that the producers want energy and basic pool does not yield that element the way they perceive it.

On another note-- the rapid fire shot that Landon did yesterday was not automatic. Landon was cold, right out of the dressing room, and on live TV with no retakes had to make 14 consistent strokes without error in a very fluid-like way.
He was under pressure to make that happen. I must say that I admire his ability to handle the pressure even if it only requires the execution of a single stroke to make something happen. The producers and everyone expects that it should happen like magic. I can tell you that there would be much less pressure to just perform aspects of basic pool.

Stan

Billy
10-08-2004, 02:14 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Stan Shuffett:</font><hr> Hi Billy,

Thanks for the positive comments about Landon. We appreciate them very much!

I guarantee you that I have been relentless in pursuing segment time for Landon that would show just the kind of thing that you mentioned. It has been very frustrating to me to not be able to have Landon engage in what it is that he actually does with the game. One show that we were on had six producers and we rehearsed for each one with changes made along the way. The final producer called the shots..... If we start with basic shot making(stop,follow,draw) for producer number one, then you can rest assured that it's gone by the second producer. They have a mind set that is nearly impossible to break. As Connie mentioned earlier, GMA did allow Landon to demonstrate a proper stroke. It all boils down to the fact that the producers want energy and basic pool does not yield that element the way they perceive it.

On another note-- the rapid fire shot that Landon did yesterday was not automatic. Landon was cold, right out of the dressing room, and on live TV with no retakes had to make 14 consistent strokes without error in a very fluid-like way.
He was under pressure to make that happen. I must say that I admire his ability to handle the pressure even if it only requires the execution of a single stroke to make something happen. The producers and everyone expects that it should happen like magic. I can tell you that there would be much less pressure to just perform aspects of basic pool.

Stan <hr /></blockquote>

keep up what must be hard and strenuous work Stan,I just wanted to comment to the better half and make sure you guys don't mis-understand the older pool players' view(and it's clear now that you don't).you are making a grand effort and hopefully they (the producers) will understand what the real game consists of one day soon.all the best to the Shuffett family and your pool endeavors and rest assured pool players across the world are behind the youngsters efforts as well as yours.thanks once again

JimS
10-11-2004, 06:42 AM
Pool players know that trick shots are, for lack of a better term, lame, but your average "normal" folks don't know that. They are amazed by trick shots and especially when performed by a child.

I've seen Landon on TV a few times and he's very good for the game. He can also play very good pool but non-pool players would not be able to see the quality of his play.

As we know a good player makes it look very easy and almost never has to make hard shots. The average person at home, knowing nothing about the game, and especially knowing nothing about taking care of whitey, would not recognize that anything special happened if they watched a good player play. They'd see him/her make easy shot after easy shot, believe that "anyone could do that" get bored quickly and reach for the remote. But, show'm a jump shot or almost any set-up trick shot and they are entertained and amazed.

You have to be a player to recognize the beauty of the game. In fact, you have to be better than your average pool player to see the beauty of an accomplished players game. They can't appreciate the beauty of making the cue ball come 3 rails tracing totally unnatural angles, derived from having delievered huge amounts of english, and having it roll to a stop not only in position to make the shot but also with a perfect angle to get on the next two shots. They don't know that the cue ball did anything except roll to a stop and they wonder why, if the player had such good control over it, it didn't come to stop set up for an easy straight in shot.

But.......if you can entertain and amaze them some of them will get interested in how those trick shots are done and some will learn just how highly skilled the good players are.

Being a show-man and shooting some setup shots is not undignified. It's just putting on a show for the as yet uninitiated. Hook'm! Draw them in and set the hook. /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif

But Popcorn I sure do appreciate your frustration in seldom getting to see "real" pool played on TV. However....the Open is supposed to be on something like 14 hours worth in November. I think it was the Open and I think it was 9 Ball Girl that posted the schedule. I wish there was a way I could personally impact the rating of those presentations.

ras314
10-11-2004, 07:27 AM
Hi Stan,

I would like to mention I had a little different introduction to Landon. Watching the last DCC on the internet there was a period when no one was playing on the TV table and Landon was shooting a few balls. Then he was playing someone and both were running tables. No commentary and at first it looked like some kid had snuck in, goofing off on the tables. Didn't take long to realize he had a fine stroke and could shoot! Later he was introduced and put on a short trick shot show which I thought was rather a waste of talent for a real pool venue.

Stan Shuffett
10-11-2004, 08:41 AM
Hi Ras314,
Good to hear your comments! Running racks? Well, he had fun and he did show some skill especially for a 9 year old. The BCN folks invited Landon to play when the tv table was open. 99% of all of his playing at DCC was just plain ol, pool. BCN asked Landon to do a few fun things and what little it was, was completely off the cuff. Later Scott Smith asked Landon to do something and Landon threw 4 racks of 9-balls on the table and just ran balls with very few misses and then he did his rapid fire shot. It was the most satisfying demonstration that he has done in my view. As for a waste of talent at that venue, that is where Landon was first noticed as a 7 year old. Pat Flemming taped his show and sent it to Ripley's, none of which was prompted by me. That taping has led to 7 national tv appearances, all of which, I think have totaled into many positve PR moments for pool, not to mention all the wonderful, unforgettable experiences for my family. Landon is winding way down on the entertainment end of things. He opted to play in the 9ball division at DCC last year and did so very respectably as 9 year old. I guess it's just difficult for me to understand words like "waste" in reference to what Landon has done to promote our game. I try to operate on the glass is half full principle and in my wildest dreams I would have never expected anything but positve results out of what Landon has done for the game. Landon's main focus has always been toward playing the game. Landon, very well, may conclude his exhibition career this month when he does an exhibition at his elementary school on October 25th. Believe it or not, we have been trying to pull-up in that regard for a couple of years. Landon is very well aware that he will ultimately be judged in pool by how well he plays the game. Landon's goal is to be the best jr. player that he can be and then comes education.

Stan

ras314
10-11-2004, 11:12 AM
Stan, Reckond I ought to back water a bit, nothing impresses me more than good solid pool, trick shot type things don't mean a whole lot to me but are fun to watch sometimes. Some of the stroke shots are amazing and no disrespect is intended to those who like to watch them.

As far as promoting and improving the image of the sport, nothing can do that better than talented hard working youngsters that have the obvious support of their parents.

Keep up the good work, long as Landon enjoys it.