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Ross
10-11-2004, 11:24 AM
The anti-science Bush admin has always pooh-poohed the view of mainstream scientists that the worldwide pumping of CO2 and other greenhouse gases into the atmosphere could lead to a disasterous global warming effect. Bush follows the Limbaugh view that these are just alarmist scientists. The latest:

Surprise CO2 rise may speed up global warming

( http://news.independent.co.uk/world/environment/story.jsp?story=570734 )

"The rate at which global warming gases are accumulating in the atmosphere has taken a sharp leap upwards, leading to fears that the devastating effects of climate change may hit the world even sooner than has been predicted.

Atmospheric levels of carbon dioxide (CO2 ), the principal greenhouse gas, have made a sudden jump that cannot be explained by any corresponding jump in terrestrial emissions of CO2 from power stations and motor vehicles - because there has been none.

Some scientists think instead that the abrupt speed-up may be evidence of the long-feared climate change "feedback" mechanism, by which global warming causes alterations to the earth's natural systems and then, in turn, causes the warming to increase even more rapidly than before.

Such a development would mean the worldwide droughts, agricultural failure, sea-level rise, increased weather turbulence and flooding all predicted as consequences of climate change would arrive on much shorter time-scales than present scenarios suggest, and the world would have much less time to co-ordinate its response.

Only last month, Tony Blair expressed anxiety that global warming's dire effects would arrive not just in his children's lifetime, but in his own, and would "radically alter human existence".

The feedback phenomenon has already been predicted in the supercomputer models of the global climate on which the current forecasts of warming are based. A key aspect is the weakening, caused by the warming itself, of the earth's ability to remove huge amounts of CO2 from the atmosphere by absorbing it annually in its forests and oceans, in the so-called carbon cycle. (The forests and oceans are referred to as carbon "sinks".)

Hitherto, however, that weakening has been put decades into the future.

The possibility that it may be occurring now is suggested in the long run of atmospheric CO2 measurements that have been made since 1958 at the observatory on the top of Mauna Loa, an 11,000ft volcano in Hawaii, by the American physicist Charles Keeling, from the University of California at San Diego.

... "

Sid_Vicious
10-11-2004, 12:07 PM
Are you suggesting that Bush, with his IQ of 91, does not know as much about science theory as the prominent PHDs and MBAs inside the field of science? Next thing you will tell me is that ol'George's whole economic team either quitting or being replaced was because our IQ91 guy didn't know more about economics than those reared and specifically schooled in economics knows about economics. "Can this be true, our top leader is less than what he thinks he is?" Sad, ain't it, and damn dangerous too...sid

Fair_Play
10-11-2004, 03:35 PM
<font color="blue"> So thats why Kerry rides an $8,000.00 bicycle! </font color> He is so /ccboard/images/graemlins/cool.gif

As to the $35,000,000.00 Gulfstream 5 ??? well, shucks, that belongs to wifey Heinz (doesn't count).

/ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gifhahahahahahaha /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif

Fair Play

ps - it must be that the name "Kerry" just isn't /ccboard/images/graemlins/cool.gifenough for wifey, she prefers Heinz, and makes poor John play second fiddle to a dead Republican!

Steve - Detroit
10-11-2004, 04:18 PM
You forget it's an election year. The sudden rise in CO2 is most likely attributable to the enormous amounts of hot air that spews forth from all the various candidates, regardless of party or any other affiliation. The selfish bastards. /ccboard/images/graemlins/smile.gif

Ross
10-11-2004, 04:48 PM
/ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif

Wally_in_Cincy
10-12-2004, 05:49 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Ross:</font><hr>

...atmospheric CO2 measurements that have been made since 1958 at the observatory on the top of Mauna Loa, an 11,000ft volcano in Hawaii...
<hr /></blockquote>

The decision to measure co2 levels at the top of a volcano is, uh, interesting /ccboard/images/graemlins/crazy.gif

I prefer global warming to an Ice Age but I doubt mankind can effect nor deter the coming of either.

Just my uneducated opinion.

catscradle
10-13-2004, 04:32 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Wally_in_Cincy:</font><hr> <blockquote><font class="small">Quote Ross:</font><hr>

...atmospheric CO2 measurements that have been made since 1958 at the observatory on the top of Mauna Loa, an 11,000ft volcano in Hawaii...
<hr /></blockquote>

The decision to measure co2 levels at the top of a volcano is, uh, interesting /ccboard/images/graemlins/crazy.gif

I prefer global warming to an Ice Age but I doubt mankind can effect nor deter the coming of either.

Just my uneducated opinion. <hr /></blockquote>

I disagree, humans can most certainly effect the long-term climate, we just can't control that effect. In addition I don't think it matters a lot what the US regs are, as the industrial complex and number of cars grow in the third world they will become the most significant factor in CO2 emissions. People who are just hovering above the poverty line aren't really going to care about the long term atmospheric effect.

highsea
10-13-2004, 07:20 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Sid_Vicious:</font><hr> Are you suggesting that Bush, with his IQ of 91, does not know as much about science theory as the prominent PHDs and MBAs inside the field of science?<hr /></blockquote>Yeah, I sure do trust all those guys with <font color="blue">*MBA</font color>'s in science. Almost as much as I trust a lawyer. Have you looked at Kerry's Energy Plan? Let's put aside the $20bn. giveaway to Detroit ($750,000,000 per electoral vote) for a second, and talk about COAL.

A central point of Kerry's energy plan is to promote clean-burning coal fired electricity. Now, that's great, I am not opposed to cleaning up coal emissions, BUT...When COAL (Carbon) BURNS (Oxidizes), the byproduct of the combustion is...CO2. The cleanest coal burning plant theoretically possible still has to give off CO2, it's basic chemistry.

And I don't need an MBA to tell me that...C+O2---&gt;CO2 (exothermic)

-CM

* MBA= Master's in Business Administration

hondo
10-13-2004, 11:03 AM
When I was a kid everybody voted against Adlai (sp?)
Stevenson because he was an "egghead". Good old
George- he's brought back anti- intellectualism.
It's cool to be a fool.

Chopstick
10-13-2004, 11:24 AM
Ya know the scientific community has the same demographics as any other profession. You have a few good ones and a liberal sprinkling of idiots. How many good auto mechnanics do you know? It's the same way with doctors and scientists. Do a google search on Global Cooling. The monitors that are registering warming trends are in urban areas. Cities grow, more heat, go figure. The rural monitors don't show the same trends.

What about the eat more oats thing? They had half the yuppies in the country choking down oat muffins in the morning and then said never mind, turns out they're not that good for you. Don't eat meat, uhh no eat all meat.

The ozone thing really gets me. Ozone is an isotope of oxygen. It's O3 instad of O2. Oxygen molecules in the upper atmosphere are energized by solar radiation and bond to an additional atom. So, how exactly are we going to run out?

A) Turn off the sun.
B) Take all the oxygen out of the atmosphere.

They don't know and they never will until they get the massively parallel computing platforms online. Then they will be able to process enough information to come up with reasonable answers. Until then they're just a bunch of pinheads who make a living publishing contraversial things to make you spend money.

highsea
10-13-2004, 12:09 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Chopstick:</font><hr>The ozone thing really gets me. Ozone is an isotope of oxygen. It's O3 instad of O2. <hr /></blockquote>Uhh, chopstick, not trying to diminish your argument, but an isotope is an atom of a particular element with a different atomic weight, due to a different number of neutrons. There are 2 naturally occuring isotopes of Oxygen with one and two extra neutrons, Oxygen-17 and Oxygen-18.

Ozone is a molecule made up of oxygen atoms, it just has 3 atoms rather than the 2 found in oxygen gas. The individual atoms in an O3 molecule have the same ratios of "normal" oxygen and heavier isotopes as an O2 molecule.

So ozone is a molecular variation, rather than an isotopic one. Just thought I would clarify that. Carry on...

Chopstick
10-13-2004, 07:24 PM
Oh yea. That's right. Sorry. I need to fold up my collar. My red neck is showing.