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MINISTRY
10-16-2004, 04:25 PM
There something special about her website.

Jennifer Barretta (http://jenniferbarretta.com)

http://www.team-ion.org/forums/images/smilies/dj.gif http://whovillehuntersclan.com/forum/images/smiles/tanz.gif http://www.team-ion.org/forums/images/smilies/banana.gif http://www.team-ion.org/forums/images/smilies/jackson.gif http://www.team-ion.org/forums/images/smilies/hitit.gif

Snyder1
10-20-2004, 10:15 AM
I heard from somebody who's been around that she took a few lessons from Robles & now thinks she can take on the top womens players. Looks won't get you very far on a pro pool table honey (I heard she's a b*tch on wheels as well as a spoiled rich brat)...

Snyder1
10-20-2004, 10:15 AM

Fred Agnir
10-20-2004, 10:26 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Snyder1:</font><hr> I heard from somebody who's been around that she took a few lessons from Robles &amp; now thinks she can take on the top womens players. Looks won't get you very far on a pro pool table honey (I heard she's a b*tch on wheels as well as a spoiled rich brat)...

<hr /></blockquote>I heard... I heard... I heard....

Terrible.

I met her once just a few weeks ago. She was very sweet, pleaseant, and non-pretentious. She wasn't doing a show and she wasn't even shooting. She was watching like the rest of the fans.

Fred

Steve Lipsky
10-20-2004, 10:34 AM
John,

As someone who knows Jenn fairly well, I can tell you that your source is not accurate. Jenn is not rich, she's not spoiled, and she's taken more than a "few lessons with Tony Robles". Jenn has spent an enormous amount of time working to improve her game, and she's done it with Tony, Ginky, Mika, Jose Garcia, Jonathan Smith, and a guy named Stu Mattana. She probably owes more to Stu than to the rest, but I'm not 100% about that.

As to her thinking she can take on the top women, show me a totally humble pool player and I'll show you someone without the confidence to beat a pro. To beat the pro, you first have to believe you can. If Jenn's been more outspoken about it than the rest, I didn't know that, but I don't really care either.

Anyway, your post is pretty hurtful and seems intended to be. I don't understand why someone would want to write a post like you did.

- Steve

Cueless Joey
10-20-2004, 10:42 AM
I heard just the opposite.

Rich R.
10-20-2004, 10:50 AM
I don't know who your source is, but he/she is dead wrong.

I have seen Jenn play a quite a number of regional tournaments and she is very nice and in know what a "brat", rich or poor.

Obviously you, or your mystery source, have an ax to grind.
You are way off on Jennifer Barretta.

Chopstick
10-20-2004, 11:03 AM
Britney Spears and billiards. That thing really cracks me up. Somebody's going to do a parody on that thing and stick Earl doing a dance in there or something.

Wally_in_Cincy
10-20-2004, 11:15 AM
I heard from somebody who knows that you are a hack woodworker, a lousy fisherman and you took a few guitar lessons and now you think you can get a record contract.

You should delete your post before you embarass yourself any further.

woody_968
10-20-2004, 11:28 AM
Almost everything I have heard on her has been positive.

Stuff like this kills me, even if she was a b*tch, she is out there promoting pool, what are you doing for the game?

jungledude51
10-20-2004, 12:26 PM
Jennifer is soooooooo beautiful all she has to do is ask and she can get a free autographed copy of "The Green Felt Jungle" and my private number (lol)&gt; ONly in my wildest dreams would such a gorgeous creature appear in my life, I wouldn't worry about her financial status or her attitude if they were, in fact, faulty, which I doubt that they are. Jennifer, you are just what the pool world needs to get popular around the world. Go girl..... /ccboard/images/graemlins/cool.gif /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif /ccboard/images/graemlins/smile.gif

Snyder1
10-20-2004, 12:29 PM
Sheesh already, I didn't mean to cause an uproar. I'm not a regular here &amp; should have used a tad more tact. The owner of my local pool hall is the source of my information ... apparently, he's in error based on the comments here. His description of her really rubbed me wrong &amp; this reflected in my post. I apologize for getting everybody upset if I'm wrong in my assessment of her...

JS (PS to Wally ... I heard CAD Draftsmen are usually engineering school dropouts (touche my friend)).

Pied Piper
10-20-2004, 03:05 PM
please tell me that she is single. A beautiful woman, with an interest in pool? And she has tons of people saying she has a great personality to? Thats what type of lady I need to find. A person that won;t get ticked when I take off friday night to run through a few racks. Even better if she can show me how /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif

woody_968
10-20-2004, 04:11 PM
If you dont know the asnwer to those questions just go look up her website /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif

nhp
10-20-2004, 04:56 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Snyder1:</font><hr> Sheesh already, I didn't mean to cause an uproar. I'm not a regular here &amp; should have used a tad more tact. The owner of my local pool hall is the source of my information ... apparently, he's in error based on the comments here. His description of her really rubbed me wrong &amp; this reflected in my post. I apologize for getting everybody upset if I'm wrong in my assessment of her...

JS (PS to Wally ... I heard CAD Draftsmen are usually engineering school dropouts (touche my friend)). <hr /></blockquote>

LOL have you ever heard of keeping some things to yourself? This is the internet, people from all over the world read what you said, and now it turned out to be false. Don't give us that "sheesh" crap, you haven't even gotten what you deserved for spreading rumors like that.

Pelican
10-20-2004, 06:35 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote jungledude51:</font><hr> I wouldn't worry about her financial status <hr /></blockquote>

Hey Humph, I wouldn't mind being her sugar-daddy and improving her financial lot /ccboard/images/graemlins/wink.gif.

Pel, the ultimate DOM (Dirty Old Man)

Barbara
10-20-2004, 06:42 PM
When Jen went Touring Pro, she stopped playing in any Regional Tour events. In fact, all of them, even if they let in the TPs for the events.

My question is, if you were JenB and could gauge yourself against the top TPs at $50 a pop versus $500 + expenses for a WPBA event, why wouldn't you play in what I would call a "tune-up event" when you can?

What would be your rationality to stop playing in an event that draws the top players?

Barbara

cuechick
10-20-2004, 07:35 PM
I can not speak for Jenn, but I believe she told me once she tunred pro, she did not want play in regional events and just make it that more difficult for players to Qualify. She felt is was hard enough as it is...and I think that is a very admiral chocie on her part.

Gee, doesn't sound like something a spoiled bitch would say?

cuechick
10-20-2004, 07:48 PM
Sorry Pied Piper, she is happily married and getting ready to celebrate her 12th anniversary...
/ccboard/images/graemlins/frown.gif

Pelican
10-20-2004, 09:58 PM
[ QUOTE ]
ready to celebrate her 12th anniversary...
<hr /></blockquote>

Jeez, she must have gotten married when she was pre teen. Oh well, she might still could use a sugar daddy /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif.

Later, Pel

SUPERSTAR
10-20-2004, 11:19 PM
Well lets see....where do i start.
Ok. Personally i think that this is another case of.....
people like success, but they don't like successful people.

No one says SQUAT until someone gets a little taste (well deserved i might add) of success.
Your talking about someone i've met/hung out with several times. She has always been nice to me and believe me, i am not close with her at all.
The only thing that comes to mind is the fact that she has a very strong personality. Your talking about a girl who doesn't shy away from defeat. It only makes her stronger. (did i mention fierce competitor?)
She put herself in positions to better her game, and as a result, she's been rewarded for it. She definitely has what it takes to win.
BUT...Along with that success, you have the fans, the stalkers, and the bitter spiteful people who hate watching others succeed when they can't.
SINCE she has such a strong personality, i can only think that if she WAS ever rude to anyone, that it was probably well deserved, and completely justified.

And yes you DID mean to cause an uproar. Otherwise you wouldn't have said it. It's one thing to make a judgement based on a personal interaction with someone. It is completely pathetic to make a judgement about someone based on what you heard, and then post it on this websight. Get a grip!
In every instance i have ever bumped into Jenn, and watched her interact with people, players, and fans....she has always been very professional.

If I were Jennifer Barretta, and i had the chance to meet you, i would JUMP at the chance to put you in your place. I think Jenn on the other hand would probably never do that unless you pushed her to far.
She has too much class.

SUPERSTAR

Rich R.
10-21-2004, 03:04 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Barbara:</font><hr> When Jen went Touring Pro, she stopped playing in any Regional Tour events. In fact, all of them, even if they let in the TPs for the events.

My question is, if you were JenB and could gauge yourself against the top TPs at $50 a pop versus $500 + expenses for a WPBA event, why wouldn't you play in what I would call a "tune-up event" when you can?

What would be your rationality to stop playing in an event that draws the top players?

Barbara <hr /></blockquote>
Barbara, I agree with you completely. Jen is not the only one to stop, or drastically reduce, their participation in regional events, once they become a TP. I think the lack of quality competition, under tournament conditions, will do nothing but hold them back.
If Karen Corr, Julie Kelly and a few other top pro players, feel the need to stop in at regional tour events, on a regular basis, I believe many others should think twice before they stop competing. They can only benefit from that kind of competition, under pressure.

Wally_in_Cincy
10-21-2004, 06:19 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Snyder1:</font><hr>
(PS to Wally ... I heard CAD Draftsmen are usually engineering school dropouts (touche my friend)). <hr /></blockquote>

You are correct. In 1994 I was working 60 hours a week and going to night school. My wife of 7 years decided I was not necessary to have around anymore.

So in Sept. 1994 I sat in my first night of Calculus thinking "Gee I have to get up tomorrow morning, get divorced, and move everything I own out of my house into a one-bedroom apartment."

Naturally this tended to put me in a bit of a sour mood. So I dropped out of school. I went back and took a few classes but I really was not motivated to slog down that long road of getting a degree in night school.

So there you have it.

Wally &lt;~~ always has an excuse /ccboard/images/graemlins/smile.gif

Barbara
10-21-2004, 07:49 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote cuechick:</font><hr>
Gee, doesn't sound like something a spoiled bitch would say?
<hr /></blockquote>

Lara,

I didn't say that!

My other thought was maybe Jenn was keeping herself "fresh" for competition.

But I would think she would at least play in the Tri-State Tour events.

Barbara

PQQLK9
10-21-2004, 08:18 AM
<hr /></blockquote>You are correct. In 1994 I was working 60 hours a week and going to night school. My wife of 7 years decided I was not necessary to have around anymore.<hr /></blockquote>

Were you a Republican then? /ccboard/images/graemlins/smile.gif

Wally_in_Cincy
10-21-2004, 08:27 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote PQQLK9:</font><hr> Were you a Republican then? /ccboard/images/graemlins/smile.gif <hr /></blockquote>

/ccboard/images/graemlins/smile.gif

Ever since I was old enough to read Goldwater bumper stickers /ccboard/images/graemlins/smile.gif

Wally &lt;~~ remembers the "daisy" ad

SUPERSTAR
10-21-2004, 08:27 AM
I think that for anyone who has watched or even agonized with the girls at the qualifying events, you would know that there was that whole "should touring pro's be allowed to play" discussion time and time again.

Lets get one thing straight. Karen Corr and Julie Kelly came to this country and used the qualification system to enter the touring ranks.
It is well known that after they had become touring pros, Karen and Julie weren't there to qualify anymore. They were at the qualifying events to make money. The rules said they could.
AT the expense of other women who had come from far and away to try and qualify.
Kind of sucks to be the hands on favorite NON pro, only to draw Karen on the winners side, and say Kim Shaw on the losers side, and exit the tournament without getting anything back. These are people that otherwise might have won the event had the pros not shown up to make some travel cash.

Now i know some girls liked the competition and some girls always hated it. To play and be knocked out by someone who would not be allowed to win the "spot"
I can only think that since Jennifer herself came through the qualification system, that she is consciously removing herself from those events to allow other up and coming stars the opportunity to play without the "pro" factor.
Could be that she doesn't have the time since she turned pro or a number of other things, but the only one who knows that for sure is Jenn.
Don't make the mistake and think that Karen and Julie came to those events looking for quality competition. They were completely motivated by money.
Where others that came to play, still had dreams of playing on tour.

SUPERSTAR

Rich R.
10-21-2004, 08:46 AM
SUPERSTAR, I have to disagree with you.
There is so little money involved with the regional tours, Karen and Julie, if they finished 1st and 2nd, would get little more than expense money for the weekend tournament. There would not be much left for travel to the big pro events.
The main prize, in the regional tournaments, is the paid qualifier into the WPBA events. Karen and Julie doe not qualify for that and it goes to the next highest finishing, non-TP.
If they are not making money and they do not get the paid qualifier, the only logical thing that could draw them is the competition. /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif

landshark77
10-21-2004, 08:55 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote SUPERSTAR:</font><hr>
AT the expense of other women who had come from far and away to try and qualify.
Kind of sucks to be the hands on favorite NON pro, only to draw Karen on the winners side, and say Kim Shaw on the losers side, and exit the tournament without getting anything back. These are people that otherwise might have won the event had the pros not shown up to make some travel cash.
<hr /></blockquote>

IMO, and I don't mean to sound ignorant, but these events are mainly to attempt to qualify for a WPBA event. If someone showed up time after time and ONLY played sucky Susans like myself and won the spot then my feeling is they may not really be prepared when they get to the WPBA spot for the first few times. (This is ONLY my ASUMPTION.) IMO having a player who has touring pro status play in the regionals would be great practice and really prepare you for the main event (WPBA) the competition out there is stiff. I really don't think most of the girls playing on the regional tours are in it for the money to begin with...I think they all want the spot.

If I showed up to a regional tour and was told I drew Karen Corr instead of Jane Doe...then heck yeah, game on! Where else are you gonna get to play one of the best in the world for around $50? Heck, you might even win...I've noticed that even the top Pros lose. /ccboard/images/graemlins/blush.gif

Furthermore, if I was the Non-Pro favorite, and had to play a top WPBA Pro...not only am I getting free practice (I'd have to beat 'em anyway to win a WPBA tilte) but even if I lost I would still get the spot. They can not earn the spot. I am right about this Barabra, right? So a $500 spot in a WPBA event and the chance to out run a top Pro all for $50...I'd say like Master Card, it's priceless. /ccboard/images/graemlins/tongue.gif




JMO

MINISTRY
10-21-2004, 09:04 AM
The fact is that Jennifer Barretta is a great new addition to the pro tour. She is a great pool player, a beautifull lady, and I personally would now pay to watch a live appearance with her and any other pro oppenent.

Seriously those of you who need to question a person's childhood before you decide if you can say positive things, really need to question your own life first.

As far as the motivations of a professional pool player. I will sum it up for you - A professional pool player wants to win, the more money involved with that win the better!!
It's not rocket science here folks.

Here is what I have to say to Jennifer Barretta - Good luck to you Jenniferhttp://www.team-ion.org/forums/images/smilies/icon_thumb.gif, I hope you will autograph a picture of yourself for me to hang in my Billiard Room. I know we will all be seeing a lot more of you on the pro tour. http://instagiber.net/smiliesdotcom/contrib/edoom/cool_shades.gif

Steve Lipsky
10-21-2004, 09:09 AM
It also comes down to how much money you need. The JPNEWT tour has been a spectacular breeding ground for some of the new talent on the pro tour, but none of the girls are getting rich from winning any of the events. I think Barbara will agree with that.

My impression of first place money (which is usually supplemented with the qualifier spot, but not when a TP wins) is that it's usually around $500 or so. After expenses, the profit might be around $300-$350.

So it goes back to how badly do you need the money, and what are your chances of winning? Karen's going to win pretty much every tournament she goes to (not all, but most), so taking out a weekend to get a guaranteed $350 isn't so bad. Especially since she doesn't have a day job, so Saturdays are like Tuesdays to her, lol.

For the TPs that don't play like Karen, the decision to play in these events must be cast according to different standards. Here, it cannot be about the money at all, because they'll probably come in 2nd through 4th. Almost no profit there. So they must make the decision to go based entirely on how badly they want the practice against Karen and maybe Gerda/Julie. They also must decide if they really want to beat some otherwise deserving girl, eliminating her from contention for the coveted spot.

There are a number of factors, but I can certainly understand why anyone who plays on the tour wouldn't continue to play in regional events.

- Steve

SUPERSTAR
10-21-2004, 10:16 AM
To Rich R. Your assuming that they spent a ton on expenses, but that's not the case. The majority of the tournaments i was at, Karen and Julie would drive to the event the morning of it, if they could. Being based outside philly, this provided them with easy access to the majority of NEWT events, with the exception of Binghampton and Hagerstown. It was usually after they had played, that they would go get a room.

AND.....Like Steve said. The first place for most of the events was around 400 to 500 plus the spot. So if BOTH Karen and Julie made money, and did a first and second as you suggest, they could walk away with 6 or 700 bucks.
Not to shabby for people that don't have a "real" jobs.


AND...as there were incidents where Karen and Julie met up on the winners side,(winner going to the winners bracket final) where JULIE would somehow mysteriously stomp on Karen. Karen would then go to the losers side, and win the tournament.
And this is at a time where Julie didn't play as good as she does now.
Word was that Karen LET Julie win so that they as a whole could make more money, seeing how Karen was gonna win the event anyway. Figure that one out and try and justify THOSE actions.
It was definitely a TEAM effort.
So money was and is most definitely a motive.

AS for why OTHER players of lesser caliber would or wouldn't play, Steve says it perfectly.

SUPERSTAR

Deeman2
10-21-2004, 10:56 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote landshark77:</font><hr> Furthermore, if I was the Non-Pro favorite, and had to play a top WPBA Pro...not only am I getting free practice (I'd have to beat 'em anyway to win a WPBA tilte) but even if I lost I would still get the spot. They can not earn the spot. I am right about this Barabra, right? So a $500 spot in a WPBA event and the chance to out run a top Pro all for $50...I'd say like Master Card, it's priceless. /ccboard/images/graemlins/tongue.gif




JMO
<hr /></blockquote>

Landshark77,

Now, girl, you got the right attitude. Look what an experience playing a player like Karen does for your game. And, you are right, what if you jump up and beat them. You could walk on cloud nine for a month!

Deeman

SUPERSTAR
10-21-2004, 11:55 AM
That is absolutely correct.
If your looking to better your game, that is exactly the way to sharpen up.
BUT....what if you didn't get the spot..and consistently got knocked out of the tournament by pros before you had a chance to contend for the spot. To get the spot, you have to be the top finisher that isn't a touring pro or already qualified for the event in question.
I'm sure a lot of the enthusiasm to play would diminish after a few tournaments where you didn't make any money, and spent money on entry fee's, hotel rooms, gas, tolls, and food. Just to get 5th, and no spot, and basically no money. It can get quite expensive after a while.

BUT on a different note....some of the girls just enjoyed travelling and getting away for the weekend REGARDLESS of how they did, so it's a matter of personal preference.

SUPERSTAR

cuechick
10-21-2004, 12:32 PM
Of course you didn't but someone else did, which caused a lot of controversy in this thread...just go back and look at the 2nd comment...

landshark77
10-21-2004, 01:09 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote SUPERSTAR:</font><hr> BUT....what if you didn't get the spot..and consistently got knocked out of the tournament by pros before you had a chance to contend for the spot. To get the spot, you have to be the top finisher that isn't a touring pro or already qualified for the event in question.
I'm sure a lot of the enthusiasm to play would diminish after a few tournaments where you didn't make any money, and spent money on entry fee's, hotel rooms, gas, tolls, and food. Just to get 5th, and no spot, and basically no money. It can get quite expensive after a while.
<hr /></blockquote>

I'd best be practicing a bit more, LOL! /ccboard/images/graemlins/blush.gif

If I couldn't hold my own on the regional tour where I would most likely be playing my best and hardest (because I wanted the spot) and the Pros are probably playing at a mediocre level (because they are practicing or what ever) then I would say I have no business complaining about not getting the spot. After all at the main event EVERYONE is playing their BEST for the #1 finish. Imagine what I would be losing on the road at the main event. To my knowledge the spot ONLY pays the $500 tourney fees, not transportation, lodging, and food for 4 days. Even the first place $$ on the regional tour won't cover all of that. Research the finishes on the regional tours...lots of time it is the 5th place finisher or below that earns the spot. The non-pro, to my knowledge ALWAYS earns the spot. Is it someone that I know that I could beat? Sometimes it may be, but that is the way the brackets fall...even on the Pro tour. IMO, if you think you are good enough to DESERVE that spot you best be willing to prove it...no matter whom you draw...only a little person complains about fair and square competition.

landshark77
10-21-2004, 01:12 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Deeman2:</font><hr> And, you are right, what if you jump up and beat them. You could walk on cloud nine for a month!

Deeman <hr /></blockquote>

Whoa! If I beat Karen Corr, I think my cloud nine walk would last a life time. I will tell you a little known secret...shhhhh! Don't tell...I am sucky Susan when it comes to nine ball! /ccboard/images/graemlins/blush.gif

buddha162
10-21-2004, 01:46 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote landshark77:</font><hr>IMO, if you think you are good enough to DESERVE that spot you best be willing to prove it...no matter whom you draw...only a little person complains about fair and square competition.
<hr /></blockquote>

Well, those events are qualifiers right? So wouldn't you say that the best regional, NP player deserves the qualifying spot?

So in other words, if you're the best NP player in the tournament, and you draw Karen Corr in the first round and get eliminated, and some lesser NP player makes it to the finals because she didn't have to play any pro players and hence earns the spot by losing to Corr but maintaining the highest finish of the NP's, that is fair? That maintains the purpose of a qualifying tournament?

-Roger

landshark77
10-21-2004, 02:00 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote buddha162:</font><hr>
Well, those events are qualifiers right? So wouldn't you say that the best regional, NP player deserves the qualifying spot?

So in other words, if you're the best NP player in the tournament, and you draw Karen Corr in the first round and get eliminated, and some lesser NP player makes it to the finals because she didn't have to play any pro players and hence earns the spot by losing to Corr but maintaining the highest finish of the NP's, that is fair? That maintains the purpose of a qualifying tournament?

-Roger <hr /></blockquote>

Well you do have a good point. I do believe that these qualifiers are double elmination. So by me drawing Karen doesn't mean I am out of the game. What are the chances that I would draw Karen and then immediately have to face Julie, Gerda, or who ever on the one loss side? I'd say the odds of that are pretty slim. But lets say it did happen. I drew Karen and lost. Jane Doe drew Gerda and won. Gerda went to the one loss side and she is my next opponent. Jane Doe already beat Gerda. If I can not do the same how then can I complain about losing and not earning the spot? Jane Doe proved Gerda could be beaten and I failed to live up to my potential (or the potential I believe I have if I think I am the best non-pro at the tourney.)

Ross
10-21-2004, 02:05 PM
So there you have it. A TP will get criticized if they continue in the regional tour events and they will get criticized if they don't. Personally, I don't have any problem with either choice. If the rules allow it, they are free to participate or not - their choice, not mine.

Steve Lipsky
10-21-2004, 03:04 PM
Landshark,

Your example might happen, but more often it is quite different. Karen beats me in the first round, then Karen draws Gerda (remember, these tournaments aren't seeded). Regardless of who wins, one of them is on the loser's side now. The girls who are lucky enough to be in the other half of the one-loss bracket do not have to worry about facing a top player until the end of the tournament. The girls in the half of the one-loss bracket with Gerda/Karen are pretty much screwed.

You can argue that anyone competing for a spot will eventually have to face these ladies anyway, but I think it's kind of hollow. Many times the eventual winner of the spot is the girl who had the easier draw, not necessarily the one who played better. I don't see how anyone can say this makes sense.

All that said, I don't want the above to be taken as an indictment of anyone, save maybe for the WPBA who mandates that pros can be allowed in qualifiers. I have the highest respect for the girls that play these regional tournaments - their heart and dedication is truly inspiring. I also have the highest respect for Barbara Stock, who has put more into this tour than most people put into their full-time careers.

I think this issue needs to have a serious debate, and this thread has gone a long way in this matter. Topics like this are good for the game.

- Steve

Rod
10-21-2004, 03:05 PM
Yes Ross, sadly they get criticized either direction. It's really up to the room isn't it? If not someone explain that please. They may want some pro's to help increase revenue. After all aren't they paying for the qualifier spot?

It looks like the luck of the draw is really a factor for these ladys. Some may just want to have a chance of playing in a tour event, while others want to qualify as a pro. Who knows but them. If they don't like the format, well then don't play. That sends out a message as well. Personally I paid for my spots on the old pro tour which was $500.

Rod

Pied Piper
10-21-2004, 03:45 PM
married??? AWWW COME ON!!! Does she have a twin sister? or are there any single billiard ladies out there, whose idea of an ideal date is bar food, beer, and pool. lets turn this into a dating billiard forum. LOL Hey anyone know of any straight pool leagues in the massachusetts worcester area??

SPetty
10-21-2004, 03:52 PM
Thanks, Steve, you covered that well.

Not all Amateur Women's Tours are operated the same. The Hunter Classics Amateur Women's Tour (http://www.hunterclassics.com/thetour.html) allows only amateur players - no touring pros. Lisa Marr used to play on the Hunter tour and is ineligible now due to her WPBA status.


There's a little more information that makes the Hunter different from, say, JPNEWT:
Wes Hunter donates a cue worth upwards of $1700 for each tournament room to sell raffle tickets to raise money.
Each tournament has a guaranteed 1st place prize of $750.
The entry fee is $30.
If you want to "go for" the qualifier, you pay an extra $50. Whoever has placed the highest and paid the extra $50 gets the qualifier.
The Hunter tour is operated by a five member board rather than a single person.

landshark77
10-21-2004, 04:28 PM
Yeah Steve, I guess I just wasn't thinking out all of the senerios. I do also agree that the lady who has the easier draw will go further with more ease. I would also say that this is the fact in the WPBA pro events as well. I do still think, however, that if a pro did decide to play in the regionals that they should not be given flack for doing so.

JMO

Rich R.
10-22-2004, 04:07 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote SUPERSTAR:</font><hr> To Rich R. Your assuming that they spent a ton on expenses, but that's not the case. The majority of the tournaments i was at, Karen and Julie would drive to the event the morning of it, if they could. Being based outside philly, this provided them with easy access to the majority of NEWT events, with the exception of Binghampton and Hagerstown. It was usually after they had played, that they would go get a room.

AND.....Like Steve said. The first place for most of the events was around 400 to 500 plus the spot. So if BOTH Karen and Julie made money, and did a first and second as you suggest, they could walk away with 6 or 700 bucks.
Not to shabby for people that don't have a "real" jobs.


AND...as there were incidents where Karen and Julie met up on the winners side,(winner going to the winners bracket final) where JULIE would somehow mysteriously stomp on Karen. Karen would then go to the losers side, and win the tournament.
And this is at a time where Julie didn't play as good as she does now.
Word was that Karen LET Julie win so that they as a whole could make more money, seeing how Karen was gonna win the event anyway. Figure that one out and try and justify THOSE actions.
It was definitely a TEAM effort.
So money was and is most definitely a motive.

AS for why OTHER players of lesser caliber would or wouldn't play, Steve says it perfectly.

SUPERSTAR <hr /></blockquote>
First of all, many of the ladies playing in regional tournaments drive to the event, on Saturday morning, if they can. I mainly see them at the CAT events, in the Maryland/Virginia area, and I know some who drive that morning, from as far away as NYC. Since there is not a lot of money involved, they all have to cut expenses, when they can.

Secondly, your example of Karen and Julie walking away with "6 or 700 bucks" is possible, but I believe it is a little high, for some events. There are a lot of variables, when it comes to the prize money and expenses for travel and hotels in some areas.
Even at $700, between two players, I don't think anyone is paying their rent with $350.

Although you state that these players don't have "real jobs", that may be true for Karen, but I don't believe that Julie, nor many of the other TP's, at these events have the lucritive sponsorships that Karen does. Most of them have some other form of income, even if it is for being a house pro at a pool room and for giving lessons. It is not like they have nothing to do every day, except play pool. It is a harder life than you may realize.

I have to say, I especially didn't like this statement ---
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote SUPERSTAR:</font><hr> AND...as there were incidents where Karen and Julie met up on the winners side,(winner going to the winners bracket final) where JULIE would somehow mysteriously stomp on Karen. Karen would then go to the losers side, and win the tournament. <hr /></blockquote>
Julie is a former World Champion and a top notch player. Whenever Julie and Karen meet, in a tournament, Karen does not have to win. Julie is more than capable of sending Karen to the one loss side.
Enough said on that issue.

I can certainly understand Steve's point about deserving players getting knocked out of a tournament by these pros. It is a valid issue. However, maybe these pros attract a few more spectators, which may help the room owner, who is putting up the money. If you have attended some of these tournaments, you will know that there are only a handful of spectators. The room owners need a little help too. If they can sell of few more drinks and a little more food, it helps them to cover the money they are putting out.

IMHO, I like to see as many good players as possible at as many tournaments as possible. It is good for the players, it is good for those of us on the rail and it is good for the room owners. If a good player gets knocked out early, becuase of a bad draw, that is too bad. That is part of the game, we must all accept.
They will stand the same chance of getting knocked out, in the first round, when they get to a WPBA event.

SUPERSTAR
10-22-2004, 08:22 AM
Another assumption. Your actually assuming that i have no idea what playing pool for a living is like,
which is completely wrong. I know exactly how brutal pool can be for someone without a "lucrative" sponsorship.
As for the "real" jobs, i am talking about Karen and Julie. I am NOT talking about the girls who are working the full time job, and going to the qualifiers on the weekends.
I completely understand Karen and Julie driving to the event in the morning, and driving home at night only to do it again the next day. I know how hard it is for some of these women to travel all over the east coast time and time again in the hopes of the WPBA opportunity.
The 6-700 bucks was the example of the 1st/2nd scenario that was presented, and yes it is a little high for most events, but i have seen it happen.
And unless Julie has gotten some part time job which i highly doubt. Karen and Julie do nothing but play pool. They have the help of Petey Fusco who lets them use his pool room for free. They even have their own reserved table that no one else is allowed to use. Unless they have a tournament to go to, they play EVERY DAY...8 to 10 hours a day.
As for not liking that statement...well sorry to disappoint you but like it or not, i have watched it. I have talked about it with the girls at the particular venues where they happened, and the same conclusion was made.
As for Julie being a former world champion that is fully capable, how could i possibly dissagree? Her recent success is proof of it.
HOWEVER....
Did you ever SEE the final match between Karen and Julie when Julie won her first title around 5 or so years ago? Do you know what happened hill hill? Cause if you DID, you would know that the allegations i speak about are very real. This is WAY Before Julie upped her game to the level it is at today.
ASK ANYONE WHO WAS THERE!

So my next question would be to BARBARA if she's reading this. How many Qualifiers did Julie Kelly ever win on the NEWT tour, when Karen was winning everything? If she didn't win that many, how did she get on tour?

SUPERSTAR

Barbara
10-22-2004, 10:54 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote SUPERSTAR:</font><hr>
So my next question would be to BARBARA if she's reading this. How many Qualifiers did Julie Kelly ever win on the NEWT tour, when Karen was winning everything? If she didn't win that many, how did she get on tour?

SUPERSTAR
<hr /></blockquote>

You know, I don't think I can answer that question because during the first two years that Julie and Karen played in NEWT, Candi Rego was the TC and she did the articles and kept the records.

But I really think that it didn't take Julie too long to earn her TP status so it wasn't like she had to win a lot of Qualifiers.

Please remind me - at what event did Julie win her first title?

Barbara

Barbara
10-22-2004, 10:57 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Steve Lipsky:</font><hr>I think this issue needs to have a serious debate, and this thread has gone a long way in this matter. Topics like this are good for the game.

- Steve <hr /></blockquote>

Thanks for the vote of confidence, Steve. And I really do want to hear opinions on this subject, so I will start a new thread.

Barbara

Wally_in_Cincy
10-22-2004, 11:26 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Barbara:</font><hr> ...Please remind me - at what event did Julie win her first title?

Barbara <hr /></blockquote>

WPBA National Championship in Canada (Toronto? 2002?). She beat KC in the final.

Karen may have thrown the match but who knows. She was not feeling well. She could not stand on the podium for the awards. She had to sit down.

SUPERSTAR
10-22-2004, 01:36 PM
It was the WORLD POOL ASSOCIATION WORLD CHAMPIONSHIPS in 2000.

That's right....Candi was doing the tour back then...ok.

Well. The common gripe i had heard discussed back then, was that Karen was winning all the qualifiers, and even after she earned her touring pro status, she and Julie still played whenever they could. Which shouldn't come as a surprise to anyone who either played on NEWT or knew anyone who did.
The problem is that if memory serves me correctly, Julie didn't win that many qualifiers AT ALL. I distinctly remember girls getting all pissed cause they had stomped on her in these qualifiers, but she continually got invited to very exclusive events such as TAIWAN or WPA world championships and various WPBA events without ever really qualifying for them.
Is was assumed that she was being invited because of her association with KAREN. Who was emerging as a very big force on the WPBA. (always comes down to politics)
It was at these events that she finally got her top half finishes to earn her TP status, so after that...she didn't have to qualify anymore. She had basically bypassed the system.

NOW...as far as the WPA tournament in canada, You could argue that Karen had a bad day, or just froze up when it was hill hill or whatever. Only they know for sure.


SUPERSTAR

cuechick
10-22-2004, 02:20 PM
I do remember well one tournament, in Maryland at Champions, quite a while ago, where Karen had to play Julie and if Julie won, she was guaranteed the Q'er spot. I watched with a bunch of other girls as Karen threw the match. It was beyond obvious, she neglected to even mark a game, when she took a bathroom break. Julie was a much weaker player at this point, and struggled much more than Karen. Karen already had her pro status, and easily whipped through the losers side and won the money. The funny part was, Julie was so weak a player at that time, Karen really had to work had to let her lose.
I remember a game where Karen "missed" 3 easy 9 balls in a row before she left one Julie could make.
I was not upset that they were doing this, they just took advantage of that situation, and I have a lot of respect for Julie, she has worked very very hard to bring her game up to its current level. But to think this stuff doesn't happen is naive and I think just shows why TP's should not be allowed except for occasional events like the State Championships...

Barbara
10-22-2004, 10:08 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote SUPERSTAR:</font><hr> It was the WORLD POOL ASSOCIATION WORLD CHAMPIONSHIPS in 2000.

That's right....Candi was doing the tour back then...ok.

Well. The common gripe i had heard discussed back then, was that Karen was winning all the qualifiers, and even after she earned her touring pro status, she and Julie still played whenever they could. Which shouldn't come as a surprise to anyone who either played on NEWT or knew anyone who did.

<font color="blue">When Candi ran the Tour, she let anyone play in the events, WPBA TP or whatever, she was one herself. Candi scheduled 13/15 events in a year and they all were Qualifiers! CANDI PUT THIS TOUR ON THE MAP TO BE THE BEST!! And Boy!! Did we attract the players!! NEWT had the Qualifiers and had the players!!! And within a 200 mile radius!</font color>

The problem is that if memory serves me correctly, Julie didn't win that many qualifiers AT ALL. I distinctly remember girls getting all pissed cause they had stomped on her in these qualifiers, but she continually got invited to very exclusive events such as TAIWAN or WPA world championships and various WPBA events without ever really qualifying for them.

<font color="blue">Karen won Q's, Julie won some Q's after. They we're both invited because they played well and I guess the "world well" of female pool players hadn't gone across the WPBA line or Japanese/Chinese players draw. Whatever. I don't know how the "World Championship Players" were drawn that year. Plus, you could call out Steve Tipton for his "Special line of Players" he use to use to fill in the 49-player chart.

[/b]NOT LIKE I HAD A WHOLE LINE OF PLAYERS THAT COULD BEAT HIS "PHONE LINE FILL SHEET" AT ANY TIME![/b]

Steve Tipton screwed a lot of players out of their chances before the WPBA went to genuinely filling a 64-player chart.</font color>

Is was assumed that she was being invited because of her association with KAREN. Who was emerging as a very big force on the WPBA. (always comes down to politics)

<font color="blue">Ask Steve Tipton that question, repeatedly, and again, again why he plays favorites. Or used to, now he can't and I LOVE IT!!!</font color>

It was at these events that she finally got her top half finishes to earn her TP status, so after that...she didn't have to qualify anymore. She had basically bypassed the system.

<font color="blue">I have no idea how Julie bypassed the system when Steve Tipton use to pimp to have women play in the WPBA before they went to a legimate 64-player chart </font color>

NOW...as far as the WPA tournament in canada, You could argue that Karen had a bad day, or just froze up when it was hill hill or whatever. Only they know for sure.

<font color="blue">Karen told me that she hadn't eaten and that her blood sugar dropped so much that she actually collapsed during the finals Trophy presentation.</font color>

<font color="blue">Basically what I know about them and watching them play -- they play "funny" with each other. Hell if you played with the same person day-in, day-out for 10 years, how would you play the match? How would you compete with someone you practice with daily for 10 years+ ?? Hey! would you go off and learn new shot on your own or what?</font color>

Barbara

SUPERSTAR <hr /></blockquote>

facets58
10-24-2004, 12:33 AM
I know Jennifer pretty well, and I have to be honest with you. The more I know about her the more attractive she becomes.

I haven't heard anything negative about her from anyone. She is really good for women's pool, and she should continue to do well.

Everyone I know likes her...I wonder how people spread crap when they have never even met someone.

My wife likes her too...
Mike--

TAFKaENIGMA
10-24-2004, 06:25 PM
Something is not right here.
The guy rips on Jenn, so The Artist Formerly Known as ENIGMA rips on the guy (no profanity either) and it gets taken off?
Bunch of garbage if you ask The Artist Formerly Known as ENIGMA.