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eg8r
10-20-2004, 06:48 AM
I just saw one of Kerry's ad on TV last night and it was about buying cheaper drugs from Canada. Something about Bush blocking the American people from buying cheaper drugs from Canada. Why doesn't Kerry support the American drug companies?

He is trying to have it both ways... <ul type="square"> punish the companies who seek international labor to help keep costs down promote purchase of international drugs (medical) because they are cheaper than American equivalents. [/list] I might understand, should some of these drugs not be available in America, but that does not seem to be the case.

eg8r

Chopstick
10-20-2004, 08:10 AM
I heard some folks talking about this on TV. The US is the major developer of new drugs for the entire world. These R&amp;D costs are built into the price. These other countries didn't develop anything. If they are allowed to undercut American companies, R&amp;D will no longer be profitable and we will all suffer. This is just another example of foreign countries using unfair trade practices to leach money from the American economy. Of course Kerry's all for it because he thinks that's what people want to hear.

eg8r
10-20-2004, 09:54 AM
[ QUOTE ]
The US is the major developer of new drugs for the entire world. These R&amp;D costs are built into the price. These other countries didn't develop anything. If they are allowed to undercut American companies, R&amp;D will no longer be profitable and we will all suffer. <hr /></blockquote> I don't really think the liberal side of the US gov't cares if the R&amp;D is profitable. They know that there are a ton of people in America that believe the gov't should be funding the R&amp;D (stem cell research) instead of private industry (which is why they lie when they say Bush is banning stem cell research).

[ QUOTE ]
Of course Kerry's all for it because he thinks that's what people want to hear.
<hr /></blockquote> At least that is his position today. /ccboard/images/graemlins/smile.gif

eg8r

Ross
10-20-2004, 10:10 AM
The drugs imported from Canada are almost entirely drugs manufactured by US drug companies. It's just that the companies have a different pricing program depending on what country they are selling to (higher to the US, lower to Mexico and Canada). So those that favor legal importation of drugs from Canada are just saying we should have the right to buy them wherever we can get them cheapest.

Chopstick
10-20-2004, 10:38 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Ross:</font><hr> The drugs imported from Canada are almost entirely drugs manufactured by US drug companies. It's just that the companies have a different pricing program depending on what country they are selling to (higher to the US, lower to Mexico and Canada). So those that favor legal importation of drugs from Canada are just saying we should have the right to buy them wherever we can get them cheapest. <hr /></blockquote>

I think you're right. I seem to remember something about different pricing programs for different countries and adding R&amp;D costs to the American market. I would like to see government leading the way in the deveolpment of new technologies but then you have NASA management as an example.

hondo
10-20-2004, 10:44 AM
There are people out there who are having to choose
between eating and buying the drugs they need and
you bushites are worrying about people not buying
American drugs. You call yourselves mainstream
and you are so out of touch with poor people in
America that it's pathetic.
I could honestly hear some of you saying" Can't
afford bread? Let them eat cake."

Wally_in_Cincy
10-20-2004, 10:52 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote hondo:</font><hr> There are people out there who are having to choose
between eating and buying the drugs they need and
you bushites are worrying about people not buying
American drugs. You call yourselves mainstream
and you are so out of touch with poor people in
America that it's pathetic.
I could honestly hear some of you saying" Can't
afford bread? Let them eat cake." <hr /></blockquote>

REPUBLICANS WANT GRANDMA TO EAT DOG FOOD SO THEY CAN CUT TAXES FOR THE RICH. /ccboard/images/graemlins/smile.gif

highsea
10-20-2004, 10:54 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Ross:</font><hr> The drugs imported from Canada are almost entirely drugs manufactured by US drug companies. <hr /></blockquote>So what will happen to the prices in Canada and the US if Kerry's plan goes through?

I think Canada's National Health Care system subsidizes these precsription drugs. If the US turns around and imports them from Canada, are we extracting money from Canada's system by taking a portion of these subsidies? Do you think Canada will permit this?

If the companies cannot recover their R&amp;D costs, because the US buys the drugs cheaper from Canada, will the comapanies not be forced to raise their prices in Canada and the US to compensate? Or will they just discontinue selling that drug that is no longer profitable, and take the write off?

Will a company even be willing to foot the high cost of developing new and better therapies, when they run the risk of huge lawsuits for adverse effects, have to foot the cost of clinical studies, FDA approval, etc, when they know that they will not sell any of the drugs at US prices?

Does Kerry's plan have a mechanism to transfer the R&amp;D costs to the US taxpayer so the drug companies will be willing to keep up with new research?

Wally_in_Cincy
10-20-2004, 11:03 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote highsea:</font><hr>
...I think Canada's National Health Care system subsidizes these precsription drugs.

<font color="blue">I don't know if they subsidize them, but they do negotiate the price with the drug companies. </font color>

If the US turns around and imports them from Canada, are we extracting money from Canada's system by taking a portion of these subsidies? Do you think Canada will permit this?... <hr /></blockquote>

Of course not, and neither will the drug companies. This "buy drugs from Canada" is a total scam by Kerry and the Dems and they know it and I can't believe Bush can't articulate a better response.

Then there's the flu thing. Kerry and the Dems are blaming George freaking Bush for dropping the ball on the flu vaccine. Like the Prez has time to check to make sure the freakin' flu vaccine manufacturing in England is on schedule.

<font color="red">"Tony, this here's Dubya. How's that flu vaccine comin' along there padnuh?" </font color>

Fact is, all the US companies that used to make vaccines quit making them because of ambulance-chasers like Edwards.

Good Grief !

crawdaddio
10-20-2004, 12:32 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Wally_in_Cincy:</font><hr>
Fact is, all the US companies that used to make vaccines quit making them because of ambulance-chasers like Edwards.

Good Grief ! <hr /></blockquote>

This is just plain untrue. These companies stopped making vaccines because they are not profitable. Compare a vaccine that you (the user) only need one dose of per year, or once in your lifetime to a drug (like prozac) that you need to take "regularly" to behave "normally". It's no contest in the corporate world where profits reign supreme. Have you seen drug commercials lately? They're selling the illness (and/or symptoms) as much as the drugs themselves.

Can you show an example of a drug company being sued and losing over a vaccine?

~DC

hondo
10-20-2004, 12:32 PM
I'd laugh if I thought you were kidding.

REPUBLICANS WANT GRANDMA TO EAT DOG FOOD SO THEY CAN CUT TAXES FOR THE RICH. /ccboard/images/graemlins/smile.gif <hr /></blockquote>

highsea
10-20-2004, 12:59 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote crawdaddio:</font><hr> <blockquote><font class="small">Quote Wally_in_Cincy:</font><hr>
Fact is, all the US companies that used to make vaccines quit making them because of ambulance-chasers like Edwards.

Good Grief ! <hr /></blockquote>

This is just plain untrue. These companies stopped making vaccines because they are not profitable. Compare a vaccine that you (the user) only need one dose of per year, or once in your lifetime to a drug (like prozac) that you need to take "regularly" to behave "normally". It's no contest in the corporate world where profits reign supreme. Have you seen drug commercials lately? They're selling the illness (and/or symptoms) as much as the drugs themselves.

Can you show an example of a drug company being sued and losing over a vaccine?

~DC <hr /></blockquote>DC, Wyeth got out of the vaccine business for this very reason. Google "vaccine lawsuits". There is lots of information there about vaccine suits and attempted tort reform in vaccine cases. There are cases of Hospitals being sued for failing to vaccinate also.

It's a huge business for trial laywers, one which they definitely don't want to give up.

Wally_in_Cincy
10-20-2004, 01:01 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote crawdaddio:</font><hr>
...Have you seen drug commercials lately? They're selling the illness (and/or symptoms) as much as the drugs themselves.,...<hr /></blockquote>

I can't argue with that. People take too many friggin' pills. My grand-dad lived to 91 and never took a pill in his life.

Wally_in_Cincy
10-20-2004, 01:03 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote hondo:</font><hr> I'd laugh if I thought you were kidding.

REPUBLICANS WANT GRANDMA TO EAT DOG FOOD SO THEY CAN CUT TAXES FOR THE RICH. /ccboard/images/graemlins/smile.gif <hr /></blockquote> <hr /></blockquote>

We want dirty water and air too. And we want all small furry animals to die a painful death.

Ross
10-20-2004, 02:02 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote highsea:</font><hr> <blockquote><font class="small">Quote Ross:</font><hr> The drugs imported from Canada are almost entirely drugs manufactured by US drug companies. <hr /></blockquote>So what will happen to the prices in Canada and the US if Kerry's plan goes through?

I think Canada's National Health Care system subsidizes these precsription drugs. If the US turns around and imports them from Canada, are we extracting money from Canada's system by taking a portion of these subsidies? Do you think Canada will permit this?

<font color="blue">I don't think it has anything to do with subsidizing drugs. As I said, the US drug companies sell drugs to Canadian and Mexican pharmacies at a lower price than they do to US pharmacies. Canadian pharmacies will benefit, but I don't think it will have any effect on the government. </font color>

If the companies cannot recover their R&amp;D costs, because the US buys the drugs cheaper from Canada, will the comapanies not be forced to raise their prices in Canada and the US to compensate? Or will they just discontinue selling that drug that is no longer profitable, and take the write off?


Will a company even be willing to foot the high cost of developing new and better therapies, when they run the risk of huge lawsuits for adverse effects, have to foot the cost of clinical studies, FDA approval, etc, when they know that they will not sell any of the drugs at US prices?

<font color="blue">Well to keep profits constant, I do think the long term effect of allowing drugs to be imported from Canada will be to level prices between the US and Canada, to the benefit of US citezens with health problems. The current system is an artifical system now, not a free market one. And I don't think the issue is that the drugs will become unprofitable, since the drug companies are setting the prices. </font color>

Does Kerry's plan have a mechanism to transfer the R&amp;D costs to the US taxpayer so the drug companies will be willing to keep up with new research? <hr /></blockquote>

<font color="blue">No there is no taxpayer anything. I'm not sure why you would be against a free market system where customers are not limited by the government where they can buy their drugs.

And the call for allowing US citizens to buy drugs from Canada has been pretty widespread - it is not a Kerry issue. The argument that Bush gave against it in the debate was only that he was worried about safety, but that is a red herring since these drugs are the same ones we get here. The real reason this admin has opposed it is because they are slaves to the wishes of the drug company lobbyists, not because of some bogus safety concerns.
</font color>

nhp
10-21-2004, 02:49 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Wally_in_Cincy:</font><hr> <blockquote><font class="small">Quote hondo:</font><hr> There are people out there who are having to choose
between eating and buying the drugs they need and
you bushites are worrying about people not buying
American drugs. You call yourselves mainstream
and you are so out of touch with poor people in
America that it's pathetic.
I could honestly hear some of you saying" Can't
afford bread? Let them eat cake." <hr /></blockquote>

REPUBLICANS WANT GRANDMA TO EAT DOG FOOD SO THEY CAN CUT TAXES FOR THE RICH. /ccboard/images/graemlins/smile.gif <hr /></blockquote>

Dog food can be nutritious.

Chopstick
10-21-2004, 08:23 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Ross:</font><hr>

<font color="blue">Well to keep profits constant, I do think the long term effect of allowing drugs to be imported from Canada will be to level prices between the US and Canada </font color>

<hr /></blockquote>

That makes perfect sense to me. Market pressures will tend to equalize things.

Another interesting point. Vaccines are critical in maintaining national health and as such should be considered a vital resource. I think the government should take over production of vaccines under the direction of the CDC.

heater451
10-21-2004, 02:42 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote eg8r:</font><hr> . . .Why doesn't Kerry support the American drug companies?

He is trying to have it both ways... <ul type="square"> punish the companies who seek international labor to help keep costs down promote purchase of international drugs (medical) because they are cheaper than American equivalents. [/list] I might understand, should some of these drugs not be available in America, but that does not seem to be the case.

eg8r
<hr /></blockquote>Funny thing, how outsourcing is good for corporations, but not for the 'average american'. Why is it so pro-American to support buying from American companies, at the cost of American jobs?

I'm not really addressing the drug issue, but the idea that it seems to be better to "Buy American", than it is to "Employ American".

I realize that we American consumers don't want to pay more for something, just because it's "Made in the USA". But that's just part of the problem--the best deal for us individually, is not necessarily the best deal for the country (us, as workers). Shopping at Wal-Mart may net us the cheapest goods, but when they underpay their workers, and don't provide healthcare, then the workers apply for gov't healthcare--and who pays for that? You and I, Mr. Taxpayer.

Unfortunately, I really think we've gone too far to come back easily. Take the concept that "the unions killed the American auto industry". To some degree, I think it did. When unions demand wage increases, then management has to increase prices to support it, or they opt for cheaper labor. Oddly, enough, they usually do both, increasing their margins by paying less for labor, and charging more for their product. (The sad part is, that same $50,000 bonus that upper-management gets on top of their million-dollar salary, could keep a person employed for a year. . . .) We just wouldn't be able to get back to a place where wages balance against the cost of living.

Well, I've started going even further off-topic, and can keep going, but I will cut it short here, as I have another, unrelated post to make, and it will be time to go to league soon.



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