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Angel_R
10-25-2004, 09:27 PM
Has anyone seen here bought the Billiards workbook? I am curious how good it is. I have read some information on their website, but I want info from someone who has used it, not endorsing on their website.

I typically practice 1-2 hrs. a day since I got back into league playing and want to know if this book is a good investment. Almost everything I know about pool, I owe to reading Robert Byrnes books and watching his videos. They are great learning tools and easy to understand. I have several other books and videos, but they tend to be boring and a tad too technical. One thing I have heard about the workbook, is there are lots of practice material in it, which is nice. I don't think a person can ever have too much practice. Anyways, drop a line and let me know what you know about this book. It may make the difference in my spending the money for it. Thanks, <font color="red"> </font color> /ccboard/images/graemlins/tongue.gif

woody_968
10-25-2004, 09:33 PM
I havent seen the book myself, but if you do a search on this forum you will find a couple of threads on it.

Jimmy B
10-26-2004, 02:36 AM
It's really big.

JB

Rich R.
10-26-2004, 02:51 AM
The Billiards Workbook is not an instructional book. It is all drills, except for a small section that has forms for you to keep track of your progress, while doing the drills.
There are certainly enough drills to keep you busy for a while.

CarolNYC
10-26-2004, 03:07 AM
Also, this book should be used in conjunction with an instructor,if you dont understand some things-if you get Billiards Digest,George Fels did a review on the book!

Quoted:

The Billiards Workbook has received
the Billiard Congress of America's Instructor Academy Training / Teaching Aid Seal of Approval

good luck!
Carol~sponsored by Billiards Workbook! /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif

JimS
10-26-2004, 05:19 AM
Get Black Belt Billiards. Not nearly as complete a set of drills but enough to keep you busy for a LONG time. Or...you could just check out the new thread I just saw "Free Drills"

Billy_Bob
10-26-2004, 05:38 AM
I bought the Billiards Workbook and am more than pleased with it. In the past I bought every book on billiards I could lay my hands on in an attempt to find more and better drills.

The Billiards Workbook is huge and filled mostly with drills, drills, drills! Every shot from every angle you could think of.

This book is great if you are very serious about your game and are willing to spend several hours a day practicing. However if you are not the type to practice, then it would not be a good idea to buy it.

It is in 3-ring binder format (One large volume). I bought a bunch of smaller 3-ring binders and broke up the different sections. This makes it easier to just pull out the section you want to work on.

Bob_Jewett
10-27-2004, 05:58 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Billy_Bob:</font><hr>The Billiards Workbook is huge and filled mostly with drills, drills, drills! Every shot from every angle you could think of.<hr /></blockquote>
And this is the tremendous weakness of the book. Most of the shots are not ones that YOU need to practice. Most of the shots will be a waste of time for you. If you want drills, there is an easy way to make your own for the shots you have trouble with, but you have to think about what those are. You can't use the technique blindly.

I saw Fel's review, and I was quite startled by it.

There is a current string over on AZBilliards about the Workbook.

Chris Cass
10-27-2004, 09:09 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Bob_Jewett:</font><hr> <blockquote><font class="small">Quote Billy_Bob:</font><hr>The Billiards Workbook is huge and filled mostly with drills, drills, drills! Every shot from every angle you could think of.<hr /></blockquote>
And this is the tremendous weakness of the book. Most of the shots are not ones that YOU need to practice. Most of the shots will be a waste of time for you. If you want drills, there is an easy way to make your own for the shots you have trouble with, but you have to think about what those are. You can't use the technique blindly.

I saw Fel's review, and I was quite startled by it.

There is a current string over on AZBilliards about the Workbook. <hr /></blockquote>

BAHAHAHAHAHHAAA,

Geez Bob,

I'm getting to like you more every post. You got moxey kid. Don't be too hard on George. He didn't have enough time to do a proper review with the time he had, the workload he was under and the size of the material to cover. A BCA Gold seal of approval is even easier to get.

C.C.

Gayle in MD
10-28-2004, 04:08 AM
Howie Pearl, who used to post here, gave me the best advice of all about learning to shoot pool when I was a beginner, "Roll some balls out on the table, and shoot em'!"

I would add to that, the ones you keep missing, shoot over and over, LOL, and that is everything you'll ever need to know about pool if you just read a few books and watch a few videos, and add to all that knowledge good ol' Murphy's Law, LOL.

Not to take anything away from TBWoorkbook, but I think drills are the most uninteresting method of learning this game. Playing with, and watching other seasoned players play is IMHO the most interesting way to learn to shoot, and the most fun.

Also, study recorded tapes of the pro matches, and get someone to record you so you can see if you have any serious flaws in your stroke, stance etc., and if so, get some lessons from one of the great instructors who post regularly on this board. Lessons from a good instructor is the single most important money you will ever spend if you are serious about improving.

Joe Tucker has a little ten dollar workbook if you like drills that he will mail to you, (Check the archives) As workbooks go, it is pretty ideal and certainly inexpensive.

Good luck!

Gayle in Md.,

Chris Cass
10-28-2004, 04:39 AM
Hi Gayle,

I was wondering where you've been. Glad to hear from you. How's everything. I too miss Howie and still waiting for Voodoo to find out what's up with Howie. Asked him last yr and I think his pool detective agency is a bit rusty. /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif

Anyway, the Joe Tucker Book your talking about is called, Advanced Pocket Billiards. It is green in a rectangle plastic binder with Guarenteed Improvement in large letters on the front. For a small book it does have volume. The book has 20 shots and skills to help you reach your goals along with a rating system. 79 pages in this lil thing.

Back to what's important to add to your post. You have to "Play the game".

Regards,

C.C.~~hopes the ankle is healing fine. Spike says hi and he won a tourney at the Midwest expo. Spike "Plays the game". /ccboard/images/graemlins/laugh.gif

Gayle in MD
10-28-2004, 05:15 AM
Hi there friend, WOW, Spike is my little honey, love that little guy! Congratulations Spike, so proud of you!!! I love to watch Spike play, watched him all evening smashing adults at the table for hours last year in Valley Forge, LOL, and they were seasoned players too! What a blast!

Just talked with Howie the other night, he's fine. Wish he was still posting here, he's a fun person. Wish Fran was still around too! I got so much great information from her posts!


I'll send you a PM later, friend! Regards to Heidi, and when are you guys going to come for a visit with us? Come soon!

So proud of you Spike, and, OH Yeah, proud of my gal Carol!

Love
Gayle,
Question: What does Gayle cuss out everyday?
Answer: The cue ball and this **** computer!

Billy_Bob
10-28-2004, 07:35 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Bob_Jewett:</font><hr> ...Most of the shots will be a waste of time for you. If you want drills, there is an easy way to make your own for the shots you have trouble with, but you have to think about what those are... <hr /></blockquote>

The way I look at it... If some or any of the drills help me, then the book was worth buying.

Also I like to learn about *all* drills from various books, videos, internet, etc. I might buy three different books on pool and use only one drill from the three books on a regular basis.

But, by learning about all the drills, I can then select from the "cream of the crop" and use the best drills on a regular basis.

I also have created some of my own drills which are based on shots which I have trouble with specifically. And the ideas for designing my own drills have come from learning about other existing drills. Had I not learned about other drills out there, I would not have been able to design my own drills as well.

And I now *know* what works and what does not work. Last night my neighbor came over to watch me and a friend play pool. After he left, she wanted to play a game. Well she has played pool about three times in her entire life. She couldn't hit a bull in the butt with a base fiddle! So I say to her, let's shoot some practice shots. I first helped her with her stroke, etc. Then I said lets make a video tape for your husband of you shooting in 5 balls in a row. She laughed because she thought this would never be possible. So I set up stickers for the same shot, and had her shoot the same shot over and over. Then I made the shot easier, turned on the VCR, then she made 5 balls in a row (same shot) on our third attempt to tape it. (30 minutes spent on practice.) Anyway I learned that method of learning a shot from one book I bought, but I had to read 10 books before I found it. Well worth the price of all ten books.

I think most books on pool are almost carbon copies of each other. Many have the same information. The books which are helping me the most (at this point in my playing) are those which focus on a specific topic. These are books like; Aiming on the Cutting Edge, Guaranteed Improvement, The Secret of Aiming, Racking Secrets, Eight Ball Bible, Play Your Best Nine Ball, Billiards Workbook, Pool Table Sales and Service, etc.

PQQLK9
10-28-2004, 07:46 AM
"Then I said lets make a video tape for your husband of you shooting in 5 balls in a row. She laughed because she thought this would never be possible. So I set up stickers for the same shot, and had her shoot the same shot over and over. Then I made the shot easier, turned on the VCR, then she made 5 balls in a row (same shot) on our third attempt to tape it".

Congratulations...you are now a CCB Certified Instructor and can charge $100.00 bucks an hour. /ccboard/images/graemlins/smile.gif Certificates printed on request.

SpiderMan
10-28-2004, 07:51 AM
Angel,

Though I've been prone to buying a lot of instructional materials, I don't own the Billiards Workbook because it just didn't seem nearly as useful as a lot of other stuff out there. By this I mean that, while it contains a lot of material, most of it is repetitive (ie, "filler"); multiple small variations of the same thing. You could throw away 90% of the pages, add some instructional text, and you'd have a decent starting point - but why not get something that focuses on the important stuff to begin with?

My opinion is that you could make much better choices for sources of practice material. Look for something that focuses you on repeating and learning the things that are most likely to help you.

For books, I really like "The Pro Book". There is some "filler" in it, ie multiple copies of worksheets for record-keeping, but I can truly say that practicing the material in there has improved my play in general, and knowing some of the specific drills have actually clinched matches for me. The stuff in that book is truly those kernels of wisdom that should receive your attention, it comes up all the time and the payback per "drill" is very high.

For videos, Bert Kinister's "60-Minute Workout" is great, and was a groundbreaker in that type of instruction. I haven't seen the Pro Book video, but if it follows the book it should also be good.

What serves you best might also depend on your current level of skill and experience. My point of view is basically as a "B" player, APA-7, ie I'm neither a beginner nor an expert but I study the game extensively.

If you're a beginner, be sure you're not putting the cart before the horse, ie have solid fundamentals and a basic understanding of the physics of the game. Watch Byrne's "Standard Video of Pool &amp; Billiards, Parts I and II. If you're an expert, give me some advice /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif

SpiderMan

Billy_Bob
10-28-2004, 08:29 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote SpiderMan:</font><hr> ...it contains a lot of material, most of it is repetitive (ie, "filler"); multiple small variations of the same thing... <hr /></blockquote>

Actually that is what I like most about the book. I would call simple drills one dimensional. I would call progressive drills two dimensional. And I would call the Billiards Workbook drills three dimensional or progressive-progressive.

When doing these drills from the various positions shown, things change. You may need to use one type of shot to get the leave on the first 3 positions, then for the next 3 positions, you need to switch to another type of shot to get your leave. Then go to the next page and things can change again. Some shots are not possible, whereas others are. But the book does not say which are which. Makes you think. Just one page can be quite challenging and wear you out for the day.

Certaintly opens up an opportunity for someone to come out with a companion book which says how to shoot each shot in the B.W. and says which shots are not possible.

Candyman
10-28-2004, 08:45 AM
Quote Gayle:I would add to that, the ones you keep missing, shoot over and over, LOL, and that is everything you'll ever need to know about pool if you just read a few books and watch a few videos, and add to all that knowledge good ol' Murphy's Law, LOL.
----------------------------------------------------------
This is great advice. One of the greatest golfers of all times is Jack Nicklas. He would go to the practice range after each round and practice only the shots he missed that day. I do the same thing. It will build confidence and prepare you for the next time you face a similar shot.

SPetty
10-28-2004, 09:08 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Candyman:</font><hr> He would go to the practice range after each round and practice only the shots he missed that day. I do the same thing. It will build confidence and prepare you for the next time you face a similar shot. <hr /></blockquote>I tried it once, but kept missing. I'm not sure what it's teaching you to set up a shot that you miss and then you miss it and miss it and miss it and miss it and miss it and miss it. I'm just not convinced that's a valuable way to spend time at the table, or that it's doing any good.

Wally_in_Cincy
10-28-2004, 09:21 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote SPetty:</font><hr> ...I tried it once, but kept missing. I'm not sure what it's teaching you to set up a shot that you miss and then you miss it and miss it and miss it and miss it and miss it and miss it. I'm just not convinced that's a valuable way to spend time at the table, or that it's doing any good. <hr /></blockquote>

One thing it tells you is "don't try this shot in a match". I have shots like that.

When I first started playing my misses on league night would be permanantly etched in my brain and I would practice them the next day (still do actually, even though I don't miss quite as often now. Most of my errors now are position errors, except when I'm playing on those tight tables at Q-Masters /ccboard/images/graemlins/smile.gif ). I was usually able to figure them out but there will always be some that just are too low %

When I am playing 8-ball against myself in practice I will often stop after a miss and reset the shot a few times. It helps you learn where your weak points are.

Popcorn
10-28-2004, 09:54 AM
quote
"This is great advice. One of the greatest golfers of all times is Jack Nicklas. He would go to the practice range after each round and practice only the shots he missed that day. I do the same thing. It will build confidence and prepare you for the next time you face a similar shot. "


The flaw in that is, it will perpetuate a mediocre over all game. You will always have parts of your game that are better then others. The ideal way to become the best player you can be is to practices your strengths till they become the level of genius while working on your weaknesses. Your weaknesses will almost always remain the weak part of your game. The reason players miss easy shots is because they believe the shots are easy and don't require practice. One unusual thing about pool is, as your strengths become greater your weakness seem to improve. You improve because you are now playing with precision on all shots even the easiest ones. You can make a tough shot even if you don't practice it at all, if you are a practiced precision player. The reason a great player wins is they do the simplest of things consistently. If you do that the hard will follow.

Voodoo Daddy
10-28-2004, 10:21 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Chris Cass:</font><hr> Hi Gayle, I too miss Howie and still waiting for Voodoo to find out what's up with Howie. Asked him last yr and I think his pool detective agency is a bit rusty. /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif<hr /></blockquote>

I told you how Howie was when you asked me last year...you were still floating on that drug-high from the hospital, talk about rusty...geez!! HAHAHAHAHAHA

Voodoo~~~miss's no one, really

Chris Cass
10-28-2004, 11:07 AM
Oh Thanks Voodoo,

Isn't it like a shooter to always blame the equipment. /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif

Regards,

C.C.~~misses Voodoo /ccboard/images/graemlins/tongue.gif

SpiderMan
10-28-2004, 11:18 AM
Check the Pro Book. With a particular primary exercise, also diagrammed are limits of variation in ball placement to give you an infinite number of "sub-drills". But, you get all that on one page rather than a pile of pages. That way, you have a clear focus on a particular drill and also learn the limits between which you should be able to perform, and associate everything together in your mind with that one drill.

The Pro Book is the best I've found for improving an intermediate-level player's game. Of course, that's my opinion based on my own particular needs. But it definitely gave me the most benefit for time spent. No one has an infinite amount of time, so you have to make certain you are practicing "smart".

SpiderMan

woody_968
10-28-2004, 11:21 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote SpiderMan:</font><hr> No one has an infinite amount of time, so you have to make certain you are practicing "smart".

SpiderMan <hr /></blockquote>

Tap, Tap, Tap

dooziexx
10-28-2004, 11:33 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Angel_R:</font><hr> Has anyone seen here bought the Billiards workbook? I am curious how good it is. I have read some information on their website, but I want info from someone who has used it, not endorsing on their website.

I typically practice 1-2 hrs. a day since I got back into league playing and want to know if this book is a good investment. Almost everything I know about pool, I owe to reading Robert Byrnes books and watching his videos. They are great learning tools and easy to understand. I have several other books and videos, but they tend to be boring and a tad too technical. One thing I have heard about the workbook, is there are lots of practice material in it, which is nice. I don't think a person can ever have too much practice. Anyways, drop a line and let me know what you know about this book. It may make the difference in my spending the money for it. Thanks, <font color="red"> </font color> /ccboard/images/graemlins/tongue.gif <hr /></blockquote>

Hey Angel, this is Erik... Yup we met about 3 weeks back at the Venice tavern during league... You dont need the book... Your game is too damn good!!!! /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif

Gayle in MD
10-28-2004, 01:51 PM
Hi there kiddo,
I had to laugh when I read yor post. I used to do that too, then I realized, I had to shoot it a different way if I kept missing it, LOL. I do have a drill or two that I do everyday, but I really do think doing drills is borring as can be.

Studying the TV matches, and I do mean studying, is what I found most beneficial when I first began to shoot.

Also, one day I realized that I was an impatient shooter, so I started to really take my time, figure out why I missed when I missed, I realized that if you keep shooting the same shot over and missing it over and over, you just aren't seeing it right, and aiming it correctly. The most important thing to do when you practice, IMHO, is to figure out exactly why you miss, and correct it.

And also, and this sounds so simple, but I noticed one day that often Alison will take five practice strokes, nice and slow, before she shoots, and I thought to myself, if she takes five, then I definately should take five. What a difference! I know most of the instructors teach three, but in my case, it takes all five practice strokes for me to hone in my stroke and my aim.

Love,
Gayle in Md, Take five!

Sorry I missed meeting you in September, I had a dear friend at deaths door, and couldn't leave town. He's OK now though. Maybe next year!

Gayle in MD
10-28-2004, 01:52 PM
Hi there kiddo,
I had to laugh when I read yor post. I used to do that too, then I realized, I had to shoot it a different way if I kept missing it, LOL. I do have a drill or two that I do everyday, but I really do think doing drills is borring as can be.

Studying the TV matches, and I do mean studying, is what I found most beneficial when I first began to shoot.

Also, one day I realized that I was an impatient shooter, so I started to really take my time, figure out why I missed when I missed, I realized that if you keep shooting the same shot over and missing it over and over, you just aren't seeing it right, and aiming it correctly. The most important thing to do when you practice, IMHO, is to figure out exactly why you miss, and correct it.

And also, and this sounds so simple, but I noticed one day that often Alison will take five practice strokes, nice and slow, before she shoots, and I thought to myself, if she takes five, then I definately should take five. What a difference! I know most of the instructors teach three, but in my case, it takes all five practice strokes for me to hone in my stroke and my aim.

Love,
Gayle in Md, Take five! /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif

Sorry I missed meeting you in September, I had a dear friend at deaths door, and couldn't leave town. He's OK now though. Maybe next year!

/ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif

Gayle in MD
10-28-2004, 01:54 PM
Hi there kiddo,
I had to laugh when I read yor post. I used to do that too, then I realized, I had to shoot it a different way if I kept missing it, LOL. I do have a drill or two that I do everyday, but I really do think doing drills is borring as can be.

Studying the TV matches, and I do mean studying, is what I found most beneficial when I first began to shoot.

Also, one day I realized that I was an impatient shooter, so I started to really take my time, figure out why I missed when I missed, I realized that if you keep shooting the same shot over and missing it over and over, you just aren't seeing it right, and aiming it correctly. The most important thing to do when you practice, IMHO, is to figure out exactly why you miss, and correct it.

And also, and this sounds so simple, but I noticed one day that often Alison will take five practice strokes, nice and slow, before she shoots, and I thought to myself, if she takes five, then I definately should take five. What a difference! I know most of the instructors teach three, but in my case, it takes all five practice strokes for me to hone in my stroke and my aim.

Love,
Gayle in Md, Take five! /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif

Sorry I missed meeting you in September, I had a dear friend at deaths door, and couldn't leave town. He's OK now though. Maybe next year! /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif

/ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif

woody_968
10-28-2004, 03:56 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote SPetty:</font><hr> I tried it once, but kept missing. I'm not sure what it's teaching you to set up a shot that you miss and then you miss it and miss it and miss it and miss it and miss it and miss it. I'm just not convinced that's a valuable way to spend time at the table, or that it's doing any good. <hr /></blockquote>

I agree with you that missing the same shot 100 times doesnt do you any good, in fact it can do nothing but frustrate you. So here is an example of what I would recommend to practice a long cut shot as an example.

WEI (http://endeavor.med.nyu.edu/~wei/pool/pooltable2.html)
START(
%AE3K1%B[4\2%CB7\2%DC0\2%E[3\6%FB8[7%GB5[5%HB6[8%IC1[9%JC0\5
%KB4\6%LB5\3%M[5\6%Pb7T1%QJ2M9%RP7O5%SV5P7%T[6Q8%WF4L3%Xl9U5
)END


Start pocketing the one ball from position A, and do so untill you feel confident in the shot. Then move your cueball to position B, then C, then D, and finally all the way back to where the cueball is place.

They are all the same cut angle, its just the last one looks much harder than the first. By doing this you will gain confidence in pocketing the shot before you move the cueball back each time.

You can also do this with cut shots.

START(
%AE0J0%B[4\2%CB7\2%DC0\2%E[3\6%FB8[7%GB5[5%HB6[8%IC1[9%JC0\5
%KB4\6%LB5\3%M[5\6%PQ8O2%QD8N6%RG4N5%SJ6N4%TM5N5
)END

Again, start out at A (straght in) and progressivly move the cueball to steeper angles. Granted in this one the angle changes and gets sharper, but you already know where to hit the OB to make the shot and it seems much easier when you just increase the angle a little bit at a time.

I am sure you already knew this, but thought I would post it for all of the lurkers out there /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif

CarolNYC
10-29-2004, 01:35 AM
Hello there my friend,
How are you-missed you-figured you've been sailing the open seas with Jim! /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif

Heres my two cents, if its worth two cents:
[ QUOTE ]
is to figure out exactly why you miss, and correct it.

<hr /></blockquote>
If your missing cause your just not aiming right, start simple-make simple shots,cutshots,etc.If your missing simple shots, your not aiming right!

If your missing cause of a physical problem,like jerking your arm or moving or jumping up (which was my problem), then get back down to fundamentals!
You MUST approach every shot the same exact way,step into every shot the sme way, I dont care if the ball is hanging, step into the shot the same way!
As I learned in North Carolina with Kelly and Steve, the BCA calls it set,pause,finish,freeze-well, you know me-I call it "lock&amp;load"
set a shot up at the table-fairly simple one-straight in-step into it,eye your aiming spot,lock in on aim point, close your eyes and fire it in!
You mentioned Allison, well,she takes five strokes doesnt mean you have to=everyone has different ways-BUT, notice her PAUSE-shes aimed on the target ,pauses,then fires it in-theres ALWAYS that pause!Shes zoned in on that target and knows that ball is going /ccboard/images/graemlins/wink.gif

Hope I helped you!
love ya,
Carol /ccboard/images/graemlins/wink.gif

Gayle in MD
10-29-2004, 07:12 AM
Hey woman, how are you and yours? Miss you. Did you go to Arnold? Congratulations BTW. We've been following your great progress. Remember, I'm going to be the president of the Fan Club! /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif

Everything you are saying about shot making is so true, in my case though, I really needed to make the approach knowing that when I got there I would be taking five nice slow strokes before the SPF. Think my slow brain just needs the extra time to get the shot aimed and settle the stroke. Funny thing is that the guys on my team started trying it, and it worked for them to, so thats our motto now, "Take Five" All the rest of the fundamentals are just as important, as you say in your post, but I was just amazed at the difference in my shot making when I added the two extra strokes before the "SET". I think what it is is that I have found "My Rhythm" that Leonard XXX has always told me about! Thank you Dick!
Anyway, now I'm average instead of lousy, LOL!

Love ya Carol, we gotta get together!

PS, Sorry about the three posts guys, Don't know how that happened but this boad was acting funny that day, LOL. Blame the equipment, right Chris, lol.

Gayle in MD
10-29-2004, 07:35 AM
Hi Wally, how's things? Good to hear from you. That is how I practice too. It occurred to me, when I started breaking and running out in the league, that that's what I had been practicing, Breaking and running out, lol. I just find that to be more effective for me since your are addressing actual situations that will come up in competition, deciding on your run out, position, combos, etc., all the things that you are faced with after you break. If I miss along the way, I stop and practice what shot I missed until I know why I missed.

Then too, it works better for me because this pinched nerve in my neck does not allow being in the same position for an extended amount of time, so shooting and walking around the table and shooting again is about the only way I CAN practice!

Hope all is well Wally! Take care!
Love,
Gayle in Md.

Chris Cass
10-29-2004, 07:38 AM
Your not average. Your super. /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif

Regards,

C.C.~~Spike says he likes Gayle too. /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif

#### leonard
10-29-2004, 11:13 AM
GAyle, first it was Richard Cranium, then BOB PERKINS now you, GAyle. You need a written excuse first, then you can Post.

I have mail waiting to be sent to Towjob I will have to edit it. ####

Angel_R
10-29-2004, 08:32 PM
HAhaha, Thanks Erik!
It's funny, I've been playing competively for 20 years now, besides the past 7 years I took off due to not wanting to travel to play leagues and my kids were young and wanted dad home. I started playing seriously again like a fever. Go rid of the 7 ft table I had for 12 years and bought a 9 ft table. I went back to the books and videos I knew the best, Robert Byrnes stuff. I see the Billiards Workbook come out and think, Do I need it? All of the posts everyone has posted here have convinced me I have been doing everything I can do already. I sometimes wonder how some of you got in my head because you think the same way I do.

Now that my kids are not so little I decided to start playing in tournaments again. The midwest Open was too soon, but I think the Windy City Open will be my return to tournament play. I appreciate the replies to this post.

Erik, I look forward to seeing you again. If you hadn't checked, everyone has told me I'm gonna be a 7 real soon. APA seems like a great league. I have only had three matches and find I play harder every week. I have to owe that to the handicap they gave me after week 2. I hear about players getting mad when they are handicapped so high, but I can never understand that. If you are good enough to be rated so high, playing someone that is a 3,4,or 5 should be that motivation to play harder and smarter.

Anyways, for some of you straight pool players, that was how I learned the game of pool and it is still in my opinion the best game of skill with pockets! 9-ball and 8-ball are still lots of fun!

One other question before I leave for the night. At what level of play do you seek instruction from a instructor? Just curious, because I live near Rockford IL and they have the Cue University there. I wouldn't want to spend the money if they are going to tell me or show me stuff I have learned from others, books and/or videos. Not that I don't need instruction, but I am very tight with my moola!

Thanks everyone, I hope to meet some of you closer to my location in Illinois, maybe at leagues or tournament play!

Angel /ccboard/images/graemlins/tongue.gif

CarolNYC
10-29-2004, 11:47 PM
Hey gayle,
No,we were in New Mexico-and Im the president of "YOUR" fan club! /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif
I like the "take five" and if it works,do it! Good for you and Leonards got some pretty serious info, if you know what I mean! He knows his s&amp;&amp;t! (excuse the language)-rhythm-another good one-
/ccboard/images/graemlins/cool.gifIve played with you girl, your way better than average-your super!
We'll get together-maybe NYC Rockerfeller,like I mentioned,okay? /ccboard/images/graemlins/wink.gif
Love ya and hi to Jim!

Carol

BLACKHEART
10-30-2004, 12:12 AM
/ccboard/images/graemlins/smile.gifI have been involved with pool since the 1950s &amp; have spent money on videos,books &amp; any number of toys &amp; cues to improve my game. If a book,no matter what the price, can help me, I'm all for it. I like the idea, that someone has put together a tool that can actually HELP me, to achieve the practice methods that I need...JER

Gayle in MD
10-30-2004, 05:22 AM
A big Hello, my dear friend. When are you going to come for a visit? I have a new e-mail address, I will send you a PM and send it to you.
Love.
Gayle /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif

Chris Cass
10-30-2004, 06:07 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Angel_R:</font><hr>
Now that my kids are not so little I decided to start playing in tournaments again. The midwest Open was too soon, but I think the Windy City Open will be my return to tournament play.

(I'll see you there hopefully. /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif Please if you see me introduce yourself no matter what you might think about my mood. I just request it won't be in the middle of a match.)

APA seems like a great league. I have only had three matches and find I play harder every week. I have to owe that to the handicap they gave me after week 2. I hear about players getting mad when they are handicapped so high, but I can never understand that. If you are good enough to be rated so high, playing someone that is a 3,4,or 5 should be that motivation to play harder and smarter.

(The APA is structured differently. Seems that the higher your rated it's tougher to get into the end of the season Nation event team chances of going. Also, if your too high rated it's something to do with the likelyhood of the team actually needing you to play all the time. Like 9's or something are not always playing because the team handicap has something to do with under a certain #. I don't know?)

Anyways, for some of you straight pool players, that was how I learned the game of pool and it is still in my opinion the best game of skill with pockets! 9-ball and 8-ball are still lots of fun!

(Tap, Tap, Tap.)


One other question before I leave for the night. At what level of play do you seek instruction from a instructor? Just curious, because I live near Rockford IL and they have the Cue University there. I wouldn't want to spend the money if they are going to tell me or show me stuff I have learned from others, books and/or videos. Not that I don't need instruction, but I am very tight with my moola!

(My personal opinion is that the minimum age requirement should be 3 yrs old and after that, it doesn't matter. Instruction is important in developing the learning curve and qualified instruction is the way to go. I hear very positive things coming from the school your talking about too. My specialty although I'm not qualified is working with students age 3-14. After that I don't care to as many of them are molded into what they think is always the correct way. I've yet to find one person that will be open minded enough to work hard on and learn the game. Unless they're paying good money for it. Then, they might be willing.)

Regards,

C.C.~~[ QUOTE ]

Angel_R
10-30-2004, 11:47 AM
You right Chris, I think I heard last week from my captain that they are only allowed up to 23 total point in handicap to play. I guess I can see, in a way, why someone would like to keep their handicap down. After all, I do travel to play and it wouldn't be that much fun to make the drive and not play.

You might of misunderstood me when i asked about the school and I guess as I think about it I just might have gave myself the answer, afterall pros have coaches too. I was wondering if an older, 38, person like myself would benefit froma course like this?

Take care, Angel

Chris Cass
10-30-2004, 10:45 PM
I don't know Angel? I do know Efren is going to be 50 this yr and he has a coach. /ccboard/images/graemlins/smirk.gif Sorry, yes, you can benifit from education in any area at any age and not just pool.

Take care my young friend. I wish I knew what I know now back then. I bet I could teach you some too. /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif Tell you what. Buy yourself a Stroke-Trainer for $150. plus shipping. That will get you a good start before setting a definite on an instructor. You'll benifit more by putting in the time and get more for your money after the instruction. The Stroke-Trainer will give you an edge that all instructors will appreciate.

Regards,

C.C.

silverbullet
10-31-2004, 09:32 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Bob_Jewett:</font><hr> And this is the tremendous weakness of the book. Most of the shots are not ones that YOU need to practice. Most of the shots will be a waste of time for you.

I saw Fel's review, and I was quite startled by it.

There is a current string over on AZBilliards about the Workbook. <hr /></blockquote>

No disrespect meant, but...

Having a thread on AZ is one thing, but I always thought it was an unwritten rule to support the efforts/books regarding regular ccbers when posting here

I do not have the book, because I buy few pool books, but, she has my support. My not having her book is no reflection whatsoever on her book. It is a reflection of my preference to learn pool primarily from 'time on the table', with instruction every now and then.

Diana talked to me about her book months before it came out, and I know that a lot of hard work went into putting it together. The last time I talked to her, she was working very hard at pool and I saw much in her tenacity and determination to be admired.

From what I have heard, this book would be just the right thing for the right people, as are all other books on billiards. Besides, CCB is sort of like a family, and unless things have changed in the past few months when I was not here much, I sort of thought that we stuck together in supporting the efforts of others on this forum.

JMO

-sb-

CarolNYC
10-31-2004, 01:18 PM
[ QUOTE ]
This book is great if you are very serious about your game and are willing to spend several hours a day practicing. However if you are not the type to practice, then it would not be a good idea to buy it.

It is in 3-ring binder format (One large volume). I bought a bunch of smaller 3-ring binders and broke up the different sections. This makes it easier to just pull out the section you want to work on.



<hr /></blockquote>
Hi there,
I like what you said-I believe it depends on how serious you are and what your level of skill intentions are!If you have no idea or structure on "how to practice' this book will help you out!
You must hve dedication,determination and heart and as for myself,a goal!
Im glad you like the book!

Take care!
Carol /ccboard/images/graemlins/wink.gif

CarolNYC
10-31-2004, 01:32 PM
[ QUOTE ]
and I know that a lot of hard work went into putting it together. <hr /></blockquote>
As you know, Billiards workbook sponsors Gerda and myself and ,the one thing that amazed me, was the AMOUNT of drills-I,myself, would not have the patience to keep a record of this magnitude of drills!
Everyone here is entitled to there opinion,their own judgement and decision to what products they feel will advance their game!
Some say ,buy this or that-you can buy every book in the world,every $1000 cue,every kind of pool product, but if your not out there on a table actually playing, I do not believe any of this stuff is going to help-your mind can be filled with all this knowledge,but if you cant perform it on a table, its worth nothing!
Just like coaching on a league, Im all for it-tell someone how to shoot a shot,but its up to him to execute and lots of times,they can't!
So you really need to dedicate yourself,like I said, depending on what level you want to bring your game!You have to practice, be in the spotlight and "mentally" feel it!
Thats all!
Carol

Stretch
10-31-2004, 01:50 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote silverbullet:</font><hr> <blockquote><font class="small">Quote Bob_Jewett:</font><hr> And this is the tremendous weakness of the book. Most of the shots are not ones that YOU need to practice. Most of the shots will be a waste of time for you.

I saw Fel's review, and I was quite startled by it.

There is a current string over on AZBilliards about the Workbook. <hr /></blockquote>

No disrespect meant, but...

Having a thread on AZ is one thing, but I always thought it was an unwritten rule to support the efforts/books regarding regular ccbers when posting here

I do not have the book, because I buy few pool books, but, she has my support. My not having her book is no reflection whatsoever on her book. It is a reflection of my preference to learn pool primarily from 'time on the table', with instruction every now and then.

Diana talked to me about her book months before it came out, and I know that a lot of hard work went into putting it together. The last time I talked to her, she was working very hard at pool and I saw much in her tenacity and determination to be admired.

From what I have heard, this book would be just the right thing for the right people, as are all other books on billiards. Besides, CCB is sort of like a family, and unless things have changed in the past few months when I was not here much, I sort of thought that we stuck together in supporting the efforts of others on this forum.

JMO

-sb- <hr /></blockquote>

sb

Thankyou for pointing that out. Obviously this book is not for everyone. That goes without saying. But i will support anyone who goes the extra mile to generate interest in this game. Dr D has been a great contributor to this CCB family for many years now, and i for one am very proud of her efforts. St

CarolNYC
10-31-2004, 02:19 PM
Hiya Stretch,
Im still looking towards those northern starry,skies! /ccboard/images/graemlins/wink.gif

Always wishing you the best!
Carol /ccboard/images/graemlins/smile.gif

Bob_Jewett
10-31-2004, 02:37 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote silverbullet:</font><hr> From what I have heard, this book would be just the right thing for the right people, as are all other books on billiards. Besides, CCB is sort of like a family, and unless things have changed in the past few months when I was not here much, I sort of thought that we stuck together in supporting the efforts of others on this forum.<hr /></blockquote>
Sorry, I'm relatively new here and did not understand that I must not criticize or detract from the efforts of regulars. It just seemed like the original poster had a question about something I had seen on which I had a strong opinion. My experience from Usenet discussion groups is that if someone asks a question, and you have an opinion, it's nearly always OK to go ahead and give it. I did not realize that things were different here.

woody_968
10-31-2004, 04:25 PM
Bob, while I agree with those that say the CCB is a different type of board, much closer to a family type of feel than any other I have posted on, I still want to see up front and honest oppinions about ANY product in question.

Granted, I wouldnt want to see anyone put up post after post putting down any of the CCBers products or services. But I also wouldnt want to see someone give an endorsment just because the book or product happens to be produced by a regular poster.

Part of being a family is being able to give and recieve both positive and negative feedback.

This is just one oppinion voiced here, and maybe my oppinion is wrong, but if I ask someone advice I sure hope they tell me what they think and not what they think other people want them to say.

Woody

Chris Cass
10-31-2004, 04:39 PM
Tap, Tap, Tap.

C.C.~~America

Ross
10-31-2004, 05:47 PM
I agree completely with Woody_968. Bob, as a long time CCB'er, I hope you keep posting your honest opinions. Positive, negative, whatever. One thing I've enjoyed about your postings on this board and others is that you DON'T get personal. That, plus the fact that you bring a wealth of knowledge and experience to this game we all love. Stay around - you'll like it here!

Stretch
10-31-2004, 07:44 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote CarolNYC:</font><hr> Hiya Stretch,
Im still looking towards those northern starry,skies! /ccboard/images/graemlins/wink.gif

Always wishing you the best!
Carol /ccboard/images/graemlins/smile.gif <hr /></blockquote>

What? You can see stars in Jersey?? /ccboard/images/graemlins/wink.gif
Thanks for the well wishes Kiddo. That must explain why I've been doing so great this past year....in everything! Hey, I've been following your progress, the pro tournaments , the sponsors.....knowone deserves it more than you.

So when is YOUR book comeing out? And what might we expect for you to cover??? /ccboard/images/graemlins/wink.gif St. ~~needs some fireside reading this winter~~

Angel_R
10-31-2004, 09:27 PM
As the original poster here, I value the opinions of everyone. I did want everyone's opinion, whether positive or negative. Obviously, given the wealth of knowledge of every player here, I expected different views, but generally, I wanted to know if this book would be a good investment. The book is on the higher end of costs when it comes to Billiards(pool) books. I remember someone saying that it is a good book in conjuction with an instructor, which I do not have the luxury of having. I like to think of myself as having a vast knowledge of pool and it's concepts. After all, when I decided I wanted to shoot pool some 20 years ago, I bought books and videos to learn. Alot of stuff I have seen over the years seems the same, just given in different perspectives.

Anyways, not to ramble on, I think I got the answer I was looking for. Obviously to spend any kind of money, you have to have the desire to use it. No matter what you buy doesn't work for you if it stays on the shelf in your rec room.

Thanks everyone again for your input!

Angel /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif

CarolNYC
11-01-2004, 01:59 AM
Hi Bob,
I value your opinion,as well,as many others-you can have any opinion you want-I believe we have no judges on this forum-thats the great thing about this place-we learn and we share!
Carol~also ,highly respects instructors! /ccboard/images/graemlins/wink.gif

CarolNYC
11-01-2004, 02:09 AM
Hey there Stretch,
You mean to tell me, just because I look towards the Canada skies at my designated "Stretch Star" and think of you, that all is well? Maybe.....but its all you baby! /ccboard/images/graemlins/wink.gif
As for Jersey,nah, thats south-NYC DOES have some stars ,ya know!!!!
And hey, thanks for following me,but personally, I'd rather have you walking BESIDE me,okay?
No book-if I wrote an autobiography, it would probably scare the hell out of people,ha ha ha,but I will say this:

Keep an eye out for Billiards Digest December issue-there may be a small article /ccboard/images/graemlins/wink.gif
Keep those fires burning!
Carol~sees the Stretch star shining bright!

CarolNYC
11-01-2004, 02:15 AM
[ QUOTE ]
I remember someone saying that it is a good book in conjuction with an instructor, which I do not have the luxury of having <hr /></blockquote>
Hi Angel,
Now ,thats what Im talking about-sometimes people live in locations,like out in a very secluded,wooded or cornfield /ccboard/images/graemlins/smile.gif area,where "down the road" means 100 miles!
No opportunity to play or learn from very good players or instructors,unless there passing through-
I was the one who said use the book in conjunction with an instructor IF there was something you didnt understand,but then again,all you'd have to do is just ask ,here and Im sure it would be answered!
Many people ask for drills, well, THIS is a book of drills!
Good luck with your quest!

Carol /ccboard/images/graemlins/smile.gif

Rich R.
11-01-2004, 04:14 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Bob_Jewett:</font><hr> Sorry, I'm relatively new here and did not understand that I must not criticize or detract from the efforts of regulars. It just seemed like the original poster had a question about something I had seen on which I had a strong opinion. My experience from Usenet discussion groups is that if someone asks a question, and you have an opinion, it's nearly always OK to go ahead and give it. I did not realize that things were different here. <hr /></blockquote>
Bob, there is no unwritten rule about not criticizing products produced by other CCB'ers. If there is, I haven't seen it. /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif
Your honest opinion is, and always will be, welcome. It may rub some the wrong way, but if it is an honest opinion, it is welcome.

As far as the Billiards Workbook goes, it is definitely not for everyone. I don't believe any book is everything to everybody.
It is very large and expensive and no one will deny that.
However, if a person likes to do drills, to improve their game, and they like some structure to those drills and a way to keep a record of their progress, this book may be what they are looking for.

With your knowledge and experience, I can understand that this book may not be for you, but that doesn't mean it will not help someone else.

CarolNYC
11-01-2004, 04:41 AM
[ QUOTE ]
Don't be too hard on George. He didn't have enough time to do a proper review with the time he had, the workload he was under and the size of the material to cover. A BCA Gold seal of approval is even easier to get.
<hr /></blockquote>

Hi Chris,
Im a little puzzled by your response-I dont know George Fels, but are you saying he didnt look at the book properly-
are you saying that the BCA will give a book their seal with no problem-that it is an easy thing for a book to get?
The reason I ask is because of this press release:


<font color="red">Colorado Springs, Colo.: The Billiard Congress of America (BCA) has instituted an official Seal of Approval program to provide innovative marketing and standards to billiard instructors and their students. Made available to companies that produce training and teaching devices, the BCA Instructor Program Training/Teaching Aid "Seal of Approval" is designed to both support sales efforts and set standards of industry excellence.

"The Seal of Approval is designed to assist companies in marketing their products," said BCA Instructor Committee Chairman Bob Radford. "There are hundreds of products that claim to improve a person's game, but some are clearly better than others. The BCA will recognize those products that meet the high standards set by the BCA, so buyers will have confidence that the products are effective."

Two instructional manuals currently bear the BCA Seal of Approval: the Billiards Workbook by Diana Elaine Sorrentino, Ph.D and Aiming on the Cutting Edge by Todd Leveck. Endorsed by WPBA Touring Pro Gerda Hofstatter, the Billiards Workbook is a comprehensive set of "drills, exercises &amp; practice routines" following four preliminary chapters covering recommendations, personal goals and objectives, reporting and player profiles, and instructor's notes. The five-inch binder presentation allows for easy removal and duplication of the many tables and forms used to develop a long-term instruction program. Learn more about the "determination, dedication and discipline" of billiards at www.billiardsworkbook.com. (http://www.billiardsworkbook.com.)

The Leveck reference is a 574-page spiral-bound text offering tips on "how to develop a precision aiming system for pocket billiards" organized into fifteen chapters. From "practical playing paradigms" and "the physics of aiming and shooting" to "the geometry of pool", Leveck covers all the angles with this fully illustrated and easy-to-use text. Look for these BCA-approved products on store shelves soon!

The fee to have a product reviewed for "Seal of Approval" is $500, and eleven samples are required for academy testing.





</font color>

Carol~just wondering!!!!!

JimS
11-01-2004, 06:14 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote silverbullet:</font><hr> <blockquote><font class="small">Quote Bob_Jewett:</font><hr> And this is the tremendous weakness of the book. Most of the shots are not ones that YOU need to practice. Most of the shots will be a waste of time for you.

I saw Fel's review, and I was quite startled by it.

There is a current string over on AZBilliards about the Workbook. <hr /></blockquote>

No disrespect meant, but...

Having a thread on AZ is one thing, but I always thought it was an unwritten rule to support the efforts/books regarding regular ccbers when posting here

I do not have the book, because I buy few pool books, but, she has my support. My not having her book is no reflection whatsoever on her book. It is a reflection of my preference to learn pool primarily from 'time on the table', with instruction every now and then.

Diana talked to me about her book months before it came out, and I know that a lot of hard work went into putting it together. The last time I talked to her, she was working very hard at pool and I saw much in her tenacity and determination to be admired.

From what I have heard, this book would be just the right thing for the right people, as are all other books on billiards. Besides, CCB is sort of like a family, and unless things have changed in the past few months when I was not here much, I sort of thought that we stuck together in supporting the efforts of others on this forum.

JMO

-sb- <hr /></blockquote>

Support something you don't believe in? Bull!!

Imo there is no "unwritten rule" to support any item produced by anybody. If an item is being reviewed by forum members then there will be reviews that are positive and negative.

Bob Jewitt is a highly respected member of the billiards community and I respect his opinion. I"m glad he's posting here. I encourage his opinions and I'm glad they are honest.

I'm sure that Dr. D, having the high level of integrity she does, welcomes the opinons of knowledgeable reviewers...even though some of those opinions may be less enthusiastic about her book than she would like.

SpiderMan
11-01-2004, 08:22 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote silverbullet:</font><hr> <blockquote><font class="small">Quote Bob_Jewett:</font><hr> And this is the tremendous weakness of the book. Most of the shots are not ones that YOU need to practice. Most of the shots will be a waste of time for you.

I saw Fel's review, and I was quite startled by it.

There is a current string over on AZBilliards about the Workbook. <hr /></blockquote>

No disrespect meant, but...

Having a thread on AZ is one thing, but I always thought it was an unwritten rule to support the efforts/books regarding regular ccbers when posting here

I do not have the book, because I buy few pool books, but, she has my support. My not having her book is no reflection whatsoever on her book. It is a reflection of my preference to learn pool primarily from 'time on the table', with instruction every now and then.

Diana talked to me about her book months before it came out, and I know that a lot of hard work went into putting it together. The last time I talked to her, she was working very hard at pool and I saw much in her tenacity and determination to be admired.

From what I have heard, this book would be just the right thing for the right people, as are all other books on billiards. Besides, CCB is sort of like a family, and unless things have changed in the past few months when I was not here much, I sort of thought that we stuck together in supporting the efforts of others on this forum.

JMO
-sb- <hr /></blockquote>

I must disagree. Suppose Bob's opinion is that a product is not all it's cracked up to be. If he falsely supported it, he might be helping one CCB person but hurting many others, especially considering that Bob has his own notoriety and his opinion might be taken more seriously than mine or yours. Would that be right?

SpiderMan

Popcorn
11-01-2004, 09:42 AM
Quote
"CCB is sort of like a family, and unless things have changed in the past few months when I was not here much, I sort of thought that we stuck together in supporting the efforts of others on this forum."

You mean like a clique? Count me out, I prefer honesty. What you are talking about is a problem in out society, one lies and the rest swear to it.