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hondo
10-29-2004, 12:17 PM
In 1981 my father, a career Army man, died of a brain
tumor that he believed was brought on by exposure to
angent orange.
In 1968 I ran out of money & loan options & had to
drop out of college. I decided to join the service.
I passed my physical and had my date to report for
boot camp. Suddenly a loan opportunity came up and
I had a chance to go bact to school. My recruier,
a pool playing buddy, tore up my enlistment papers
( I never asked him) and said " go back to school,
Tom.
As my frinds who survived came back from Nam they
painted a different picture of what was going on
than we were led to believe. I became convinced
the war was wrong and protested against it.
My buddies who actually SAW COMBAT hated to talk
about it. One thing that truly bothered them
was hating to think that they were in harm's
way for political reasons and NOT to defend
their country.
Gradually many, many people came to realize
that it was not a war to defend us.
Now, it's started again. Our guys are being
killed in war that is wrong.
Kerry served in Nam, gets shot 3 times , and is
a traitor to his country.
Bush, in essence a draft dodger, is spinned as a great
American.
I'm sure egg, hi-c and Wally will pick me apart
on this post but RickW, a Nam vet might agree with me.
I told two Vietnam vets what I was going to write
and they said go for it Thanks, Hondo

PQQLK9
10-30-2004, 12:35 AM
tap ... tap ... tap

eg8r
10-30-2004, 03:30 AM
[ QUOTE ]
Kerry served in Nam, gets shot 3 times , and is
a traitor to his country.
Bush, in essence a draft dodger, is spinned as a great
American.
<hr /></blockquote> Wow, it was going good up until this point. /ccboard/images/graemlins/smile.gif One of Kerry's "wounds" was his own fault?

The problem is that Kerry decided to run his campaign on his military career. Bush was not this foolish. Bush knew he did not have a very distinguished military career (apparently no one told JK he did not have one either).

[ QUOTE ]
I'm sure egg, hi-c and Wally will pick me apart
on this post but RickW, a Nam vet might agree with me.
I told two Vietnam vets what I was going to write
and they said go for it Thanks, Hondo <hr /></blockquote> I don't think there was anything wrong with your post until you mentioned Kerry.

eg8r

Gayle in MD
10-30-2004, 07:33 AM
Good post friend. They will probably come after me too, but hey, a gals gotta do what a gals gotta do, right?

I had many friends who served in Vietnam. When they came back and I heard their stories of how SOME of our troops behaved, I was appalled. There definately were atrociies committed by us in Vietnam just as Kerry said years ago in the Senate Office Building. The sotries he told there wer the same sotries that I was told by personal friends who were there themselves.

I get very angry when people take the position that if you critisize an action of your country, you are not patriotic. That is total BS. I admire that John Kerry had the courage to say what is so about Vietnam.

Personally, the spin I have observed from Bush's campaign is disgusting. As far as I am concerned, he was never elected in the firswt place. That was upsetting enough, that last election. But after these years of watching the messes he has made, I would prefer to vote for Howdy Doody than to see George Bush get another four years to make more of a mess, and then not take responsibility for any of it!

I have watched the Republican Party over the years, waste BILLIONS on their petty investigations and dirty tricks, and they make me sick!

Polititians in general are not my cup of tea, but George Bush and the religeous right are to me the scarriest thing around in this world today.

What is this war anyway, but two religeous fanatics, George Bush, and Bin Laden, battling it out.

If we are going to increase our nuclear weaponry, and then demand that other countries destroy theirs, what does that say about us?

Just look at the deficit, what is happening to the schools, 600,000 jobs lost since this idiot took office. He is rewarding the corporations to give away jobs to countries that we are already paying taxes to send money to in the first place. Does this make any sense?

And don't start on me eg8r with you "Just the Facts" I have sources to back up what I am saying just like you do, hell all you have to do these days is change the channel or pick up a different newspaper and you can build "Facts" to support whatever your position might be!

If we don't put a stop to all this outsourceing this country will go down the tubes. HEALTH care has been totally neglected by George Bush, he has done NOTHING! The corporations are outsourcing because that is the only way they can turn a profit in the Bush economy. They can't afford to keep employees and pay their hospitalization for one thing.

Numbers don't mean anything anymore, people can twist them and turn them to make them show whatever they want.

I wish we could go back to the days when the facts were told on the news without the personal opinions of these pompus journalists using their programs to smear people and lead the unfortunate comfused in this country around like a bunch of brainless lambs being taken to the slaughter.

Now we find out that the UN is nothing more than a bunch of corrupt money making bunch of POLITICAL PIGS. Corruption is what is destroying the world, Corruption, greed and organized religeon will be the downfall of all nations if people of the world don't learn to live and let live.

George Bush went in there to go after Saddam to even a score for his father. Now here we are just days before the election and this Bin Ladden PIG is still threatening us.

Thousands were killed on 9=11 and Goerge Bush dropped the ball when he didn't make it his number one priority to get Bin Ladden. That should have been number one on his list of things to do today!

I predict that the democrats will be the silent majority to turn out to the poles next week by the droves for one reason only, to get rid of this total idiot in the White House. It's outrageous what this man is doing to America, our respect in the world, and our economy. Our children will be paying for generations for the mess he has made if we don't get rid of him now.

shwehu, I fell better already. OK Ed, hit me with your best shot, lol.

Love
Gayle

POOR GEORGE, he didn't make any mistakes, he justu appointed some wrong people, BS.

They man can't even put his lips together and pronounce words correctly. I wouldn't hire him to speak to a coalition of manure yard owners. If that Karen whatever her name is isn't around to tell this idiot what to say, he can't put two comsecutive sentenses together without saying the same six words over and over.

They only way he got to be Govenor was to launch the biggest smear campaign in history.

Wally_in_Cincy
10-30-2004, 07:56 AM
Gayle,

I think I am done arguing politics until after the election. On Wednesday (hopefully, barring a repeat of Florida 2000, *Wally rolls eyes*) we can all reinforce our ramparts, reassess our strategy, and begin the battle anew /ccboard/images/graemlins/smile.gif

PQQLK9
10-30-2004, 07:57 AM
Amen Sister /ccboard/images/graemlins/smile.gif /ccboard/images/graemlins/smile.gif /ccboard/images/graemlins/smile.gif

Wally_in_Cincy
10-30-2004, 07:59 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote hondo:</font><hr>

...I'm sure ... Wally will pick me apart
<hr /></blockquote>

Ha! Fooled ya' !

hondo, you are certainly entitled to express your side of things.

talk to you Wednesday /ccboard/images/graemlins/smile.gif

Qtec
10-30-2004, 08:48 AM
[ QUOTE ]
But after these years of watching the messes he has made, I would prefer to vote for Howdy Doody than to see George Bush get another four years to make more of a mess, and then not take responsibility for any of it!

LOL /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif

I have watched the Republican Party over the years, waste BILLIONS on their petty investigations and dirty tricks, and they make me sick!

Polititians in general are not my cup of tea, but George Bush and the religeous right are to me the scarriest thing around in this world today.

What is this war anyway, but two religeous fanatics, George Bush, and Bin Laden, battling it out.

If we are going to increase our nuclear weaponry, and then demand that other countries destroy theirs, what does that say about us?
<hr /></blockquote>

Talk about telling it like it is!

Brilliant.

Q [ dont worry, the Reps on the board are running scared, they wont bother you. They know its all over, the games up, the truth is out, no amount of spin can save them. Oohps, I forgot Florida.. /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif]

cheesemouse
10-30-2004, 09:02 AM
Gayle,

.....the pleasure of the mind meld, the joy of knowing there is someone out there that comes to the same conclusions given the same broadbrush of the information availiable to us, the voting public, and the finger crossing going on with us of a kindred spirit...I have faith in the general intelligence of my fellow citizens who are involved enough (scared enough) to make a difference and pull the lever for the best candidate annnnnnnnddddddd....theeeeee nexxxxxxxt President ooooooooooffffffffff theeeeeeee United Staaaaaaaaaates of Ameriiiiiiiiiiiiicaaaaaaaaaa.....HOOOOOOOWDY DOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOODY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Sid_Vicious
10-31-2004, 10:44 AM
Gayle....anyone who know me personally will say that I'm not ever partisan, just a middle guy, nor have I been vocal in presidentiol politics, UNTIL this election. What you said, everything you said, hits a homerun with everything I'm feeling, it's begun to worry me where our citizen's commom sense has gone when I see the polls reverse toward Bush after some of the lame answers he gives, and definetely when it comes to the thing about his refusal to take one iota of blame for mistakes.

I especially liked the coalition of manure yard owners phrase...I couldn't have said it better. All humor put aside, I am simply worried about what kind of harm we'd incur with this guy in a lame duck situation. If he is ballsy enough to do what he has in the first term, God help us if 4 years more comes our way.

On the Vietnam thing, I was surprised when I dropped into a VFW and had retired vets with maybe 3-4 checks coming from different services, Vietnam being one, and the response to a Bush news blip on the TV was "We absolutely DO NOT want 4 more years of this." I never expected this reaction, now I know...sid

Gayle in MD
10-31-2004, 11:36 AM
Dear Sid,
I feel the same. I still can't get over the way he assummed the office of the preisdency, along with help from the right wing of the Supreme Court and his brother, AKA Katherine Harris. I didn't feel that our rights as American Cicizens were honored, especially since it is pretty obvious to most of us that the whole issue of electoral votes is obsolete, and should be done away with.
In cases such as the last election, the popular vote should be the determining factor if we truly live in a democracy of majority rules.

I can only hope that the silent majority will come through for us and get to the poles this time. It is really hard for me to grasp the idea that people can't see beyond this republican spin machine to the true realities of our circumstances.

When you can see that a man is too stubborn and pompus to admit to his own mistakes, and that he refuses to listen to his own armed forces advisors as regards how to approach, how to win, it is scarry. His positions conflict within any understandable policy, against abortion, against stem cell, but for the death penalty, and pre-emptive strikes without heeding the warnings of his own advisors, which kill so many innocent people.

It is disappointing to think that our leaders, all of them, have been bought by big business, in that they never did anything over these last twenty-five years to address the danger of our continued dependency on fossil fuels, not to mention the environment.

I just can't see how people can't see through him, he is so ignorant and phoney, a complete narcissist.

Keep your fingers crossed, LOL. /ccboard/images/graemlins/confused.gif

cheesemouse
10-31-2004, 12:06 PM
Gayle,

The problem with people who have a set ideology is that they reject anything that doesn't fit the mold. My fingers are crossed. We need someone flexible enough to react to a changing world. We can win this war but not with this guy pulling the strings...he's a worse commandor in cheif than Sadam used to be....this is not to mention all of the other areas he has proved to impotent in....we deserve better.

crawdaddio
10-31-2004, 12:58 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote cheesemouse:</font><hr> We can win this war but not with this guy pulling the strings...he's a worse commandor in cheif than Sadam used to be.... <hr /></blockquote>

Now, now. I dis-like GW as much as anyone I know, but I can't compare him to Saddam, I think that is going a little too far. He has made some horrible decisions about how to execute "the war on terror", but this is due to his idiocy and his reliance on his cabinet to tell him exactly what to do and say and when to do and say it.

He has not killed hundreds of thousands.........yet. I don't like it when people compare him to Hitler or Saddam because he is simply not intelligent enough for it to be a valid comparison. He needs TO GO, agreed, but let's not get carried away...........

Now if you talk about Nixon, Reagan, or Kissinger, you have a case for international war crimes. (Along with many, many others.)

Peace,
~DC----------&gt;reluctantly has to vote for the ketchup dude
/ccboard/images/graemlins/crazy.gif

cheesemouse
10-31-2004, 02:27 PM
c/daddy,

[ QUOTE ]
Now, now. I dis-like GW as much as anyone I know, but I can't compare him to Saddam<hr /></blockquote>

I meant, of course, as a military tactician not as a human being. Sorry for the misunderstanding.

wolfdancer
10-31-2004, 04:41 PM
"Naturally, the common people don't want war, but after all, it is the
leaders of a country who determine the policy, and it is always a
simple matter to drag people along whether it is a democracy, or a
fascist dictatorship, or a parliament, or a communist dictatorship.
Voice or no voice, the people can always be brought to the bidding of
the leaders. this is easy. All you have to do is tell them they are
being attacked, and denounce the pacifists for lack of patriotism and
exposing the country to danger. It works the same in every country."
....a quote
from
Hermann Goering, Hitler's Reich-Marshall
at the Nuremberg Trials after WW 2

eg8r
10-31-2004, 06:46 PM
[ QUOTE ]
I didn't feel that our rights as American Cicizens were honored, especially since it is pretty obvious to most of us that the whole issue of electoral votes is obsolete, and should be done away with.
<hr /></blockquote> What???
[ QUOTE ]
In cases such as the last election, the popular vote should be the determining factor if we truly live in a democracy of majority rules.
<hr /></blockquote> So, would these "cases" be the ones where your guy does not get elected based on the rules, so we change them midstream? No one ever said we live in a true democracy of majority rules. Where did you hear that?
[ QUOTE ]
I can only hope that the silent majority will come through for us and get to the poles this time. It is really hard for me to grasp the idea that people can't see beyond this republican spin machine to the true realities of our circumstances.
<hr /></blockquote> This election will be interesting, I surely hope that whoever does win, wins by a significant enough margin that there is no need to drag it through the courts.

It is equally impossible for me to believe someone would not in turn be able to see the spin machine of the DNC. Surely you would not be suggesting that what you are hearing from the Dems is a true representation of the realities of our circumstances. What about all the doom and gloom?
[ QUOTE ]
His positions conflict within any understandable policy, against abortion, against stem cell, but for the death penalty, and pre-emptive strikes without heeding the warnings of his own advisors, which kill so many innocent people.
<hr /></blockquote> Wow, I guess the word "understandable" would need to be clearly defined for any of this to make sense.

eg8r

eg8r
10-31-2004, 06:50 PM
[ QUOTE ]
he's a worse commandor in cheif than Sadam used to be<hr /></blockquote> Your comment is pretty sad. /ccboard/images/graemlins/frown.gif Your post would lead a reader to believe you would prefer to have Saddam in control, I wonder if the Iraqis would agree.

With a statment like the one you just made, it is no wonder you were so able to clearly define your participation on this board in your first sentence.

eg8r

eg8r
10-31-2004, 06:53 PM
[ QUOTE ]
I meant, of course, as a military tactician not as a human being. Sorry for the misunderstanding. <hr /></blockquote> Your choice of a superior military tactician slaughtered women and children for the fun of it. Nice job cheese.

eg8r

cheesemouse
10-31-2004, 07:32 PM
[ QUOTE ]
Your post would lead a reader to believe you would prefer to have Saddam in control<hr /></blockquote>

Howdy Ed, /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif I kind of thought my post would lead one to believe I wanted Bush out of control...no wait he all ready is out of control...sorry I mis-spoke again.

[ QUOTE ]
With a statment like the one you just made, it is no wonder you were so able to clearly define your participation on this board in your first sentence.
<hr /></blockquote>

I only wish you could explain yourself with so few words... /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif

hondo
11-01-2004, 06:15 AM
It warms my heart to see all these posts
in favor of Gayle &amp; my posts. Maybe there
is hope after all. Last week, however, we
got SEVENTEEN VICIOUS mailings from the
Republicans and 2 mailings from the NEA
asking us to please consider voting for
Kerry. My wife who has always been little
miss republicab is so disgusted she's considering
changing her party affiliation.

hondo
11-01-2004, 06:18 AM
Republicab? My spelling has been atrocious lately.
I am always in a hurry.


<blockquote><font class="small">Quote hondo:</font><hr> It warms my heart to see all these posts
in favor of Gayle &amp; my posts. Maybe there
is hope after all. Last week, however, we
got SEVENTEEN VICIOUS mailings from the
Republicans and 2 mailings from the NEA
asking us to please consider voting for
Kerry. My wife who has always been little
miss republicab is so disgusted she's considering
changing her party affiliation. <hr /></blockquote>

SPetty
11-01-2004, 06:50 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote hondo:</font><hr> Republicab? My spelling has been atrocious lately.<hr /></blockquote>Remember, you can always go back and edit a post to correct spelling errors if you catch it within a few hours. In this case, you caught it in a few minutes. Just edit the original, then you don't have to post another post telling us of the mistake! /ccboard/images/graemlins/cool.gif