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Bob_Jewett
11-04-2004, 03:38 PM
In the July 1995 issue of P&B Magazine is an article by Shari Stauch that is the best thing I've seen in print about the question, "How do the pro players aim?" I got permission to put a copy on-line. It's an 800kB PDF as the last item on the page http://www.sfbilliards.com/misc.htm Shari interviewed some pretty good players.

Barbara
11-04-2004, 04:09 PM
Hey Bob!!

Thanks a lot!!

Barbara

SPetty
11-04-2004, 04:14 PM
Thanks, Bob. I enjoyed that! /ccboard/images/graemlins/smile.gif

Ross
11-04-2004, 04:39 PM
Pretty much proves that the pros don't have a clue how they do it -- except when they say they do it through experience, feel, and natural talent. Their "aiming systems" are all extremely rudimentary and many of them make no sense.

Angel_R
11-04-2004, 04:39 PM
pretty cool /ccboard/images/graemlins/cool.gif

Angel Reyes

Ives
11-04-2004, 04:44 PM
Thanks for the heads up, just finished printing it, looking forward to the read !!!

woody_968
11-04-2004, 06:16 PM
Thank you Bob, I saved it to my desktop and will print it out and look it over soon!

wolfdancer
11-04-2004, 07:02 PM
Thanks Bob!!!!!!

#### leonard
11-05-2004, 07:25 AM
Bob this aiming secret was passed on to me and any other person watching his exhibition by Babe Cranfield.

He had a plastic business card cut into an arrow point and the back was cut into a V so that when it was pushed under an object ball it would go under the ball 1 1/8 and the arrow woud extend out 1 1/8 or where the center of the cueball would have to pass to make the ball.

It would be placed on the cueball side aiming to the pocket. Once your mind became accustomed to the point on the cloth it was imbedded there forever.

Using running English with no more than a moderate stroke you would aim at the arrrow point the cueball would move to the left but the English would make the shot. Using Reverse English you would aim at the point of aim on the object and the cueball would move to the right but the English would make the shot.

When hitting with hard strokes that needs practice to see how hard the cueball moves left or right and the influence on the object ball.

I hope I passed the test.####

Wally_in_Cincy
11-05-2004, 07:29 AM
#### in Babe's book "The Straight Pool Bible" he shows how to make one of those aiming arrows.

JimS
11-05-2004, 09:35 AM
BOOK!! WRITE THE BOOK #### PLEASE WRITE THE BOOK!!!<font color="red"> </font color> /ccboard/images/graemlins/smile.gif

Steve Lipsky
11-05-2004, 09:45 AM
Bob, you referred to this as the best thing you've seen in print on the subject, so I was just wondering which part? There are a lot of different ideas.

Also, what is your general opinion on aiming systems?

Hope all is well,
Steve

Sid_Vicious
11-05-2004, 11:16 AM
My general opinion is:


What I've found so far is a fairly obvious vast difference with the pros, the prolific outstanding cuepersons kind of lean toward playing thousands and thousands of hours and then "feeling" natural without systemizing their aiming process. I like that analogy, but when you are just learning you'll have to dwell on some kind of a system, be it ghost or be it pinpoint on the object ball(my method in general when the pressure is on.) The ghost ball is easier to absorb for early learners for some reason.

So bottom line, you need to practice drills for hours, to get a feel for aiming, meaning when the decision WHILE STANDING UP is made, there's no further adjustment after going down on the shot. It's much more fun IMO to play by feel, it just is. It's important at first though to keep with the systemizing of an aiming process. Another good thing about feel, it reduces the conscious thinking and chatter in the brain during stroke, and the less one thinks at that time of the game, the better. The downside for some people may be that they might not think they are "working" and "it's easy" without systemizing,,,forget that tendency. The very main thing though, and I stress this, "Purify your stroke mechanics." Aiming doesn't mean squat if the stroke throws it into the wind, cuz it percentage-wise ain't going in without proper mechanics, no matter how perfectly the aiming is....sid

Chris Cass
11-05-2004, 11:32 AM
Hi Ross,

Your pretty much on the money. I went to go post something back to RandyG on the subject of what I meant by saying that the BCA can't teach. That's right brain activity. I wasn't at all trying to down the BCA Qualified instructor program or state they've never taught anyone who shoots in the right brain mode. I only stated that this can't be taught.

The truth of the matter is that everyone one must use both L/R brain activity and the best of the best are able to do this extremely well. This is done through countless hrs of play and shooting endless amount of different shots. The bright side is that most will cross over to the others.

I noticed Jeff Carter does exactly what I advocate and that's shooting with a angle system. I too use english of some sort on practically every shot. Most might be inadvertantly but nonetheless is applied. Probably through ROTE.

Most left brain activity or the thinking part is done while standing. Once your down on the ball. Then, only slight left brain or thinking comes into play. The final stroke is strickly done in the R brain mode (letting it happen and trusting your stroke).

I've always recommended seeking a Qualified BCA instructor since I've been posting on the board. You need this valuable knowledge of what they teach to help the learning curve instead of going through yrs of play as myself have. Still, haven't taken a lesson persy by anyone other than what #### has done himself. Through watching and becoming the shooter at the table.

There is no aiming system out there. The only one I have ever seen that comes close is one that Hal Houle has learned from someone he knew. That's a system that even with english applied, doesn't change. The only problem I have with his system is that I've shot too long by ROTE or memory that I find it fun and more too the game. I enjoy shooting my way.

It's the mechanics that need constant attention and the final stroke. That's where the BCA Qualified instruction is so important. They're able to teach you a way of checking yourself and developing a system of debugging yourself. Sometimes, you just need to be checked by one to get you back on the right track. Even the pros.

The Ghost Ball and other of what they say or mention are theorys and not systems. The Ghost Ball theory is the one that I learned from the beginning. Not so much placing a ball infront of the ob to the pocket but more the place on the ob to the pocket.

Being that I do spin the ball of what Buddy might call it, helping english. Aiming is one that comes with practice and time. Along with the use of angles to get whitey to go where I need to be for my next shot.

Shooting in total L/Brain mode is extremely tire some. That will wear you out bigtime playing in tournament. The thing that I want is to start out in L/brain mode then switch to R/brain when I'm ready to shoot my final stroke and as it becomes easy to develope into my rhythym, I then am ready to do the dance or as one would say get into the zone. That too is mainly R'Brain activity. This cannot be taught also but you can set or ready yourself or put yourself in the right position mentally to be able to sink into this zone.

I know this most likely doesn't make sence but that's me for ya. lol

Regards,

C.C.~~loves the BCA Qualified instructor, and has been trying to win a course with RandyG for the past 2 US Open ccb tounaments. not very lucky though. /ccboard/images/graemlins/frown.gif

Ken_4fun
11-05-2004, 12:06 PM
I heard someone asked Keith McCready why he was such a good player and he said that he used inside english better than anyone else.

That part wasnt even covered. (Think Ill switch to golf....)

Regards
ken

wolfdancer
11-05-2004, 12:28 PM
Yeah, but since I've only got half a brain to begin with.....
After reading the article, it seems that eventually all good players use a rote system.
Marvin Chan (or Chen ) wrote an entire book on his aiming system "double the distance" Hal Mix taught a parallel aiming method. C.J. Wiley(?) has a video out explaining his system...I think you either aim at the center or edge of the O.B.
it all gives me a headache..... or half a headache...

Chris Cass
11-05-2004, 01:09 PM
LOL Hi Wolfdancer,

You think that's a lot, you should see the systems on winning in the casinos. LOL Yep, they're all winning systems too. lol

Regards,

C.C.~~luck is a major factor in every part of life also. I need to come up with a luck system for pool. /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif

Bob_Jewett
11-05-2004, 02:58 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Steve Lipsky:</font><hr> Bob, you referred to this as the best thing you've seen in print on the subject, so I was just wondering which part? There are a lot of different ideas.

Also, what is your general opinion on aiming systems?<hr /></blockquote>
By "best thing in print," I meant the best at showing how the pros aim, not necessarily a summary of the best ways to aim or to learn to aim.

As for systems, I think the vast majority of shots must be played by feel. Perhaps it helps a player to put the angles into a framework that he thinks of as a "system" but I doubt that any good player really plays according to some geometrical (or pseudo-geometrical) construction.

Stretch
11-05-2004, 07:07 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Bob_Jewett:</font><hr> <blockquote><font class="small">Quote Steve Lipsky:</font><hr> Bob, you referred to this as the best thing you've seen in print on the subject, so I was just wondering which part? There are a lot of different ideas.


Also, what is your general opinion on aiming systems?<hr /></blockquote>
By "best thing in print," I meant the best at showing how the pros aim, not necessarily a summary of the best ways to aim or to learn to aim.

As for systems, I think the vast majority of shots must be played by feel. Perhaps it helps a player to put the angles into a framework that he thinks of as a "system" but I doubt that any good player really plays according to some geometrical (or pseudo-geometrical) construction. <hr /></blockquote>

Bob

I like how you phrase puting angles into a "framework". This is how i approach most shots. It's the framework that allows me to set up properly for the shot. But at the moment i pull the trigger, it's all faith. It's nothing more than reacting to the target.

a reaction. The release of all the information gathered in that thick nawgin of mine into one instant reflexive stroke. Brillient (if i don't say so myself /ccboard/images/graemlins/wink.gif because i've not interfered with it by any guidence. It's like from vision to action in one smooth chain of events.

Sure i can practice mechanics, and aiming, and systems till i'm blue in the face. That's where the hard work and discipline forge your style. But then when you play, you have to forget everything and just shoot. With no thought of the how and why of it.

I tryed to show a guy the other day how i did my preshot routine, what i looked at while stroking etc. You know, just giving him a few pointers. Couldn't make a thing! (note to self--while demontrating shots, put the ob 4 inches from the pocket)

Ever notice how when your "instroke" there is no waisted movement, no foot put wrong, no second guessing. Like your sleep walking or something. Suddenly the 9 ball falling jolts you awake. You can't remeber any of the previous shots in the run, it's like what, did i win? Cool, i don't have to rack them. haha St.

Stretch
11-06-2004, 09:23 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Chris Cass:</font><hr> Hi Ross,

Your pretty much on the money. I went to go post something back to RandyG on the subject of what I meant by saying that the BCA can't teach. That's right brain activity. I wasn't at all trying to down the BCA Qualified instructor program or state they've never taught anyone who shoots in the right brain mode. I only stated that this can't be taught.

The truth of the matter is that everyone one must use both L/R brain activity and the best of the best are able to do this extremely well. This is done through countless hrs of play and shooting endless amount of different shots. The bright side is that most will cross over to the others.

I noticed Jeff Carter does exactly what I advocate and that's shooting with a angle system. I too use english of some sort on practically every shot. Most might be inadvertantly but nonetheless is applied. Probably through ROTE.

Most left brain activity or the thinking part is done while standing. Once your down on the ball. Then, only slight left brain or thinking comes into play. The final stroke is strickly done in the R brain mode (letting it happen and trusting your stroke).

I've always recommended seeking a Qualified BCA instructor since I've been posting on the board. You need this valuable knowledge of what they teach to help the learning curve instead of going through yrs of play as myself have. Still, haven't taken a lesson persy by anyone other than what #### has done himself. Through watching and becoming the shooter at the table.

There is no aiming system out there. The only one I have ever seen that comes close is one that Hal Houle has learned from someone he knew. That's a system that even with english applied, doesn't change. The only problem I have with his system is that I've shot too long by ROTE or memory that I find it fun and more too the game. I enjoy shooting my way.

It's the mechanics that need constant attention and the final stroke. That's where the BCA Qualified instruction is so important. They're able to teach you a way of checking yourself and developing a system of debugging yourself. Sometimes, you just need to be checked by one to get you back on the right track. Even the pros.

The Ghost Ball and other of what they say or mention are theorys and not systems. The Ghost Ball theory is the one that I learned from the beginning. Not so much placing a ball infront of the ob to the pocket but more the place on the ob to the pocket.

Being that I do spin the ball of what Buddy might call it, helping english. Aiming is one that comes with practice and time. Along with the use of angles to get whitey to go where I need to be for my next shot.

Shooting in total L/Brain mode is extremely tire some. That will wear you out bigtime playing in tournament. The thing that I want is to start out in L/brain mode then switch to R/brain when I'm ready to shoot my final stroke and as it becomes easy to develope into my rhythym, I then am ready to do the dance or as one would say get into the zone. That too is mainly R'Brain activity. This cannot be taught also but you can set or ready yourself or put yourself in the right position mentally to be able to sink into this zone.

I know this most likely doesn't make sence but that's me for ya. lol

Regards,

C.C.~~loves the BCA Qualified instructor, and has been trying to win a course with RandyG for the past 2 US Open ccb tounaments. not very lucky though. /ccboard/images/graemlins/frown.gif <hr /></blockquote>

Hi CC

That was a very good post. A lot of mental energy goes into being too analytical at the table. It WILL ware you down. That's why i make a concsious effort to NOT think too much in a game. There comes a time when you just need to trust that your judgement and decisions will be correct, and your stroke will be there. Plan and exicute, one ball at a time.

Everything that you train on the practice table is there. Lurking under the surface is all the experience and past glory waiting to see the light of day. Force it with conscious thought and it will elude you every time. Relax and trust that it will show and it will show. I care not how i make balls, what i look like, who's watching, where i am, systems, mechanics, equipment, lighting, and a zillion other factors. These are all outerspace factors. They total "the course". They are the friction that slow down the players one by one till there is only one left. The winner. Fret about any of these and it has done it's job on you.

Play like your made of teflon. Nothing sticks to you, and every chance is a new day. Every player evolves in three phazes. Unconciouse incompitance, conciouse compitence, and finaly unconcious compitence. That is where you have to be at the top level. St

Chris Cass
11-06-2004, 10:59 AM
Well said.

C.C.

recoveryjones
11-06-2004, 02:31 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Bob_Jewett:</font><hr> In the July 1995 issue of P&amp;B Magazine is an article by Shari Stauch that is the best thing I've seen in print about the question, "How do the pro players aim?" I got permission to put a copy on-line. It's an 800kB PDF as the last item on the page http://www.sfbilliards.com/misc.htm Shari interviewed some pretty good players. <hr /></blockquote>

Thanks Bob for your intresting article on "Aiming Secrets of the Pros." It should have been, however, under the heading of "How the pros aim."I say this because if the pros had aiming secrets, they wouldn't divulge them. They wouldn't divulge their secrets because then they would no longer be secrets.Secrets are Secrets, end of story.

Furthermore the Shari Stauch link you included does not state"Aiming secrets of the Pros", it states "How pros aim." As far as their claims of how they aim (Shari Stauch article), I'm a little sceptical. Am I saying they lied...NO, as some may or may not have told the truth, or the complete story.

If you look at the bottom of the Shari Stauch article you will come to a heading that says"THE FINAL SECRET" by C.J Wiley.Within in that article CJ Wiley is very honest in saying :
"There are certain things you just don't tell."

There are an infinite amount of angles and varations of so many different shots that it is impossible to memorize them all.If so why can pros string together rack after rack without a miss?Believe me it's more than just(essential) good mechanics.

The reason they can is that they have simplified aiming methods that take those millions of shots and simplify their aiming methods down to just a few varations (aiming points) which will include on all shots.This is to many of them Top Secret and the info they (most) won't tell you.

Hal Houle explained some methods(as taught to him by Ralph Greenleaf) that totally simplify things when it comes to aiming.There is an easier way to aim. Getting a pro to tell his competition, however, is the hard thing.RJ

woody_968
11-06-2004, 03:32 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote recoveryjones:</font><hr>
There are an infinite amount of angles and varations of so many different shots that it is impossible to memorize them all.If so why can pros string together rack after rack without a miss?Believe me it's more than just(essential) good mechanics.

<hr /></blockquote>

Good points RJ, and I would agree that most of them have broken it down to set cut angles, and they know how to recognize which angle it is through hours of practice.

But the reason they run racks is through cueball control. Once in a while they will come with a shot, but most of the time they are shooting shots that most A and probably most B players will make most of the time. Are they more consistent on those shots? Sure. But what really sets them apart from the rest of the world is their cueball control.

Sid_Vicious
11-07-2004, 11:07 AM
Very good projection Stretch...sid

#### leonard
11-07-2004, 01:37 PM
Ken, I just read your post on Keith McCready saying he was the best with inside English. In my day I think I could stay with anyone.

CueBall1950 emailed me that he had met Johnny Ervolino and had told him I had quit playing in the 70s.

Johnny told him he thought I would have won the Worlds Title and I was the best player he had ever seen cutting balls backwards into the pocket. That was nearly 40 years ago so I must have left a lasting impression on Johnny.

I would cut breakshots backwards into the pocket,cracking the rack,cueball staying at the head of the rack and balls all opened.

He said after we were done playing for the day, I always play safe on that shot but when I get back to NYC,I am going to practice that shot. You knock it in and the cueball smashes the rack.

I am not just blowing my horn, I am awakeing old memories for JimS book. No on to Barb and her condolences.####

JimS
11-08-2004, 07:03 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote #### leonard:</font><hr> I am not just blowing my horn, I am awakeing old memories for JimS book. No on to Barb and her condolences.#### <hr /></blockquote>

Get that tape recorder out and get started!! /ccboard/images/graemlins/smile.gif I'll be the first to plunk out the $$$ when it's on the shelf!

I hate back cuts!! Can't find the angle /ccboard/images/graemlins/frown.gif

Maybe I need to hit more shots? Practice more? /ccboard/images/graemlins/shocked.gif /ccboard/images/graemlins/confused.gif /ccboard/images/graemlins/tongue.gif Duh?

Workin at it....