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Ives
11-07-2004, 12:33 PM
Well guys, i bit the bullet and ordered some simonis 860 for the table. Looking for any sites or links to installing. ( I know that it should be profesionally installed but its just not in the budget right now. I was lucky to get the cloth.) I found a couple of sites that give step by step instructions, just wondering what else was out there. At one point I found a site that had videos on reclothing rails but i can't find it anymore. Any help would be appreciated.



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DeadStrokeMan
11-07-2004, 01:06 PM
I'm in the same boat with you - Purchased old bruny and have cloth to order also.

Post those sites you've found with 'instructions' on reclothing ect. - please?

I will LEARN to become my own mechanic on this - It is not unlearnable at all - and I think it best to become a table-expert as well. Can you read a level? Can you 'shim' ? Can you fill with wax? Can you mix and touch up with bondo? Can you pull a cloth?

These are 'details' and not unreasonable to understand and follow. I've read tons and tons about "get a mechanic" - you can't do. FUEY - I say you CAN ... and SHOULD LEARN IT.

Popcorn
11-07-2004, 01:07 PM
If you have never installed a cloth, I would say you won't be able to do a competent job, especially on the rails. Don't be penny wise and pound foolish, get someone else to do it.

HallofFame
11-07-2004, 01:15 PM
Hi Ives,

Meuller (800-627-8888;www.poolndarts.com) has a new DVD on recovering tables, so new that the last time I ordered items from them they didn't have it yet; but I saw an ad in "Inside Pool" mag for the DVD.

But if you want "my" advice; PAY THE PIPER. Have someone who REALLY knows what their doing recover the table; believe me, you'll be much happier with the results. Not to mention having absolutely NO aggravation on your part what so ever /ccboard/images/graemlins/confused.gif

Popcorn mentioned the rails, these can be a real nightmare; you have to get the tension just right so you don't compress the cushions, this can lead to a horrible rippling effect as you look down the rail.

You can also compress the cushions to much, similar to what some "billiard" table recover-er's do; this can make the balls LEAP off the cushions at break neck speed.

I've seen billiard hall owners do the tables themselves and they look like s*&t, even though they recover the tables many times they just don't know how to do it.

Also, if you keep making mistakes and have to continuously remove staples from the wood this will become "Nightmare on Elm Street 25 - The Nightmare to end all Nightmares", ESPECIALLY if you have a table that is NOT made of SOLID wood; every time you make a mistake that's two more holes punched in the wood.

A good recover job should run between $200-300, I'm pushing the envelop at $300; but I've seen some people charge this. $200 is a nice price for an excellent job, I would not consider anything less then EXCELLENT for that price.

Ask at you nearest billiard supply store for the person who recovers tables, then ask him if he does side jobs; OF COURSE he does!!!

In every town where billiard halls exist there is certainly a "recover pro"(usually an accomplished player) that does excellent work, if the owners don't recover their tables this is usually the person who does.

Joe

Popcorn
11-07-2004, 03:00 PM
Quote

"FUEY - I say you CAN ... and SHOULD LEARN IT."

Why?

I have recovered dozens of tables, it's not that hard. I don't think in this case he wants to learn to be a mechanic he wants to cover one table that will probably last for years before it needs to be done again. There are a few tricks to covering a table, stretching the cloth properly and so forth that would actually take someone to show you plus a few special tools. I have a vice grip with a 10 inch wide jaw and cam, for streching cloth I welded up myself. He can gamble with the piece expensive cloth and try to do it himself but it's not be worth it. The first time I used Simonis, the rails all came loose. I had to go back and redo the feather strips because they were cut to size for standard cloth, not the thinner Simonis as well as buy new rail cloth because it had already been trimmed. Redoing the feather strips can be a little bit of a job. I just would not advise someone trying it without at least help from someone who knows what they are doing.

WaltVA
11-07-2004, 03:16 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote DeadStrokeMan:</font><hr> ...Can you pull a cloth?

These are 'details' and not unreasonable to understand and follow. I've read tons and tons about "get a mechanic" - you can't do. FUEY - I say you CAN ... and SHOULD LEARN IT.

<hr /></blockquote>
Knowing HOW MUCH to pull the cloth is something you may want to learn by watching and assisting the first time, rather than reading or watching a video. As mentioned, the tension with Simonis is critical to how it plays, especially on the cushions.

I'd definently pay a good mechanic for the first time; you get some OJT, a chance to ask questions, and also a standard of reference on how it should play after you've done it the next time.

JMHO,
Walt in VA

Popcorn
11-07-2004, 03:45 PM
Quote

"I'd definently pay a good mechanic for the first time; you get some OJT, a chance to ask questions,"

Mechanics always love that. What's the joke, "The price is,
$200. for the job,
$250. to watch
and $300. if you help.

Your right though, If you have a friend who can help you with it, you could probably do it yourself the next time. Some tables can even be tricky to take apart. I was in a small town pool room and the owner was covering a Gold Crown and took every rail apart at every pocket, he had parts all over the place. We showed him how to just flip the rails and do the job. He just sat there saying how stupid he felt, he said that was how he had done them all in the past and it was an all day job. We took the next table apart and had it covered and back together before he finished reassembling the one he had in a zillion pieces. We got free pool the rest of the night. I was in another place where the guy had taken drywall screws to hold the sides on the table together. It was a Gold Crown with the dove tail sides and he didn't know how to keep the sides on, they kept falling off. There was some fixing to do but I got it back together right with all the right parts in the right places minus the screws sticking out everywhere.

Ives
11-07-2004, 04:24 PM
Well, i understand everyone saying to hire someone to do it, but as i first said, it's just not an option for me. I consider myself to be pretty handy and think i can handle this. I watched the original guy who set up my table and got some ideas from him. I was just hoping that some one else out there has done it themselves and had some good advice to give (besides hire someone)

By the way , i did find that site again on covering rails, heres the link plus another one from champ billiards on covering tables.

http://www.bestbilliard.com/resources/rails.cfm

http://www.champbilliards.com/product_type_fabrics.asp?ptype_id=1

On the last link, scroll down to the bottom and click on installation guide.

Ives
11-07-2004, 04:31 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Popcorn:</font><hr> Quote

"I'd definently pay a good mechanic for the first time; you get some OJT, a chance to ask questions,"

Mechanics always love that. What's the joke, "The price is,
$200. for the job,
$250. to watch
and $300. if you help.

Your right though, If you have a friend who can help you with it, you could probably do it yourself the next time. Some tables can even be tricky to take apart. I was in a small town pool room and the owner was covering a Gold Crown and took every rail apart at every pocket, he had parts all over the place. We showed him how to just flip the rails and do the job. He just sat there saying how stupid he felt, he said that was how he had done them all in the past and it was an all day job. We took the next table apart and had it covered and back together before he finished reassembling the one he had in a zillion pieces. We got free pool the rest of the night. I was in another place where the guy had taken drywall screws to hold the sides on the table together. It was a Gold Crown with the dove tail sides and he didn't know how to keep the sides on, they kept falling off. There was some fixing to do but I got it back together right with all the right parts in the right places minus the screws sticking out everywhere. <hr /></blockquote>

I gotta laugh at this one popcorn. I am a small engine mechanic, used to have my own business. People brought me basket jobs all the time and it would end up costing them more because i had to put it all back together before i could even trouble shoot it.

DeadStrokeMan
11-07-2004, 07:44 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote HallofFame:</font><hr>
Popcorn mentioned the rails, these can be a real nightmare; you have to get the tension just right so you don't compress the cushions, this can lead to a horrible rippling effect as you look down the rail. <hr /></blockquote>

Joe - in my case the rails are in great condition - I'll hold off on the rails. If need be - may have a guy do them for me which just moved into the area. All the "RAILING" &lt;pun?&gt; about this is a moot point for me because there ARE NO MECHANICS near me at all.

brian_
11-07-2004, 07:52 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Popcorn:</font><hr> Quote

I was in a small town pool room and the owner was covering a Gold Crown and took every rail apart at every pocket, he had parts all over the place. We showed him how to just flip the rails and do the job. He just sat there saying how stupid he felt, he said that was how he had done them all in the past and it was an all day job. <hr /></blockquote>

With a person just doing one table if you have a billiards store near you why not take the rails apart and take them and the cloth to the store and have them do the cloth on the rails? Since everyone is saying that's the real hard part to the whole job. I'm sorry but I can't see how putting the cloth on the bed could be that difficult if you made sure you ordered alittle more cloth then you needed so you could wrap it around a 1X2 so you have something to pull on. Why do I think it can't be that hard? Cause I seen the goofball that redone the tables where I play, he done a shitty job on leveling, filling the seams, and some of the rail heights aren't exactly right but the cloth (860) is fine no slow spots etc.

Now don't get me I'm not saying someone that has to call AAA to change a tire should or can recover there own table, but if your mechanicly inclined and tend to be able to handle most projects that come up around the house without help then you should be able to handle recovering a table. Only reason I would pay someone is so I didn't have to deal with the hassle, but I'm not rich or that lazy so I'll deal with them.

But that's just my .02

Popcorn
11-07-2004, 09:07 PM
It is not hard if you know how, it can be if you don't, in that you may end up with a poor job. I cover a set of rails in about 40 minutes, I have a system I learned. In fact the way it is shown to cover rails in the link that another poster provided is not a good way and can cause problems. they even say you have to be careful not to get wrinkles in the rails as you staple. If you do it a different way it won't happen. You can't do it trial and error and find just as you are finishing things are messed up and you have to start prying out a bunch of staples to start over. As far as taking the rails to a billiard supply, you have a catch 22 there. A person who can't cover the rails would have just as hard a problem getting the rails back together and all squared up. I have played on table that didn't have a 90 degree angle anywhere and if you look down the long rail it is not even straight. I am sure you have played on tables where the cue ball hits the point as it tries to pass the side pocket. People mess up putting the tables back together all the time. They look pretty when they are done but don't play so good.

JimS
11-08-2004, 06:58 AM
I"ve watched it done a few times and that's why I wouldn't try it myself. I've seen how it's necessary to do it just right...not tooo tight and certainly not too loose.

I wish you luck but honestly I think you are crazy as hell to try it yourself haveing no knowledge of how it's done. Not unlike those people that brought you the basket-case engines to fix.

It's just too important to get it done right the first time to chance ruining Simonis or having rails that don't play right.

Hiring it done IS an option but you won't consider it. Stop and think about how you will feel if you screw it up and the table doesn't play right and you've wasted all that $$$$ you paid for the perfect cloth. Maybe you have to wait an extra month to get the $$$ together?

Popcorn
11-08-2004, 08:50 AM
Do you already have the cloth? When I used to order cloth it came as one piece and I had to cut up the rail cloth myself. Is yours already cut?

Ives
11-08-2004, 09:42 AM
Hey popcorn
just ordered it yesturday, not sure if its pre cut. I did order a little extra though. I appreciate everyones advice on this one, im still going to give it a try myself, if i screw it up everyone here can yell " told ya so ". I guess the only way i can learn if i can do it is to just give it a try. I'll post when the deed is done, good or bad.

Popcorn
11-08-2004, 10:28 AM
I would never say I told you so, in fact I think you will probably do a good job. Just be careful and if you can get someone to help you who has done it before it will be a lot easier. I don't know if you ever said what kind of table it was.

Billy_Bob
11-08-2004, 10:58 AM
At the bottom of the page (on the following link), click on the following...

View The Championship
Fabric Installation Guide

http://www.champbilliards.com/product_details_fabrics.asp?prod_id=1

Cloth cutting...
http://www.poolndarts.com/store.cfm/cat/86.cfm

Book: The Green Book - Pool Table Maintenance Manual...
http://www.ozonebilliards.com/greenbookpoo.html

Booklet: Secrets of Pool Table Recovering...
http://www.mccauleyweb.com/secrets.htm

Book: Pool Table Sales and Service
Order from:
Conway Billiards
1696 W. Morton Ave.
Porterville, CA 93257
559-782-0505

The following site offers online instructions, but to get a password, you need to make a purchase or pay for access...

BestBilliards - Pool Table Recovering Instructions...
http://www.bestbilliards.com/recover

Also there is a book called "Minnesota Fats on Pool" which has recovering instructions.

Note: The only book which covers coin-op tables, and at that very little, is "Pool Table Sales and Service".

dave62959
11-08-2004, 05:51 PM
Ives I had 2 professionals cover my pool table and was not satisfied. I ended up covering it myself with the help of my wife. I contacted the manufacturer of my table which is a 9 foot Brunswick Gold Crown and they sent me instructions on how to cover the table. Maybe the manufacturer of your table would do the same. We covered both the bed and the rails.

Chris Cass
11-08-2004, 06:50 PM
Hi Dave,

There's plenty of guys that claim to be professional table mechanics. There's only a few in the entire country that can make that claim. Just one that's off the top of my head is a guy they call, "Bing". He was out of Chicago and used to do the Chicago Billiard Cafe tables. Joey Gold knows him I'm sure. He might be in retirement?

My point is that if you as a customer isn't satified, then, and only then should they get paid. The customer comes first and foremost imho. Now, that is also within reason. Professional is a loose term anyway. Just as in professional pool player. If you do something for a living and that's all you do? Then, your a professional.

Regards,

C.C.

Ives
11-09-2004, 06:24 AM
Hey Dave
Thanks for the advice, i didn't think to just call and ask for instructions. I'll give it a try.

oregon
11-10-2004, 07:10 PM
I totally refurbished my pool table(an old family hand me down) from fixing neglected frame components to backing the 3-piece slate w/poplar(for that quiet solid feel) to recushioning w/accufast and refelting(pardon my jargon purists)w/860. The table plays crisp and cool. Itcan be don but much research was involved for me and I was lucky enough not to have made any costly mistakes. Good luck.