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View Full Version : Can't get past the third rack.



Chopstick
11-08-2004, 01:29 PM
I'm stuck. It doesn't even matter at what game. I break down in the back side of the second rack, or the first part of the third rack in straight pool, and in the third break and run at eight ball and nine ball. I'm good for about 25 balls and that's it. These aren't difficult shots I'm missing. I have heard that the third rack of straight pool is like the sound barrier. Once you get past that you can really go.

I'm stumped.

Deeman2
11-08-2004, 02:03 PM
Despite my recent bragging, this weekend I hit a wall (serves me right). I played in three tournaments. I couldn't get a roll, couldn't make a ball and couldn't get out from the 5!!!!

Tori said she thought an evil spirit had overtaken me. I finally went to a small tournament that I am barred from and let her play. I swear, she didn't make a ball or win a game so we were at home by 9:00p.m. I took a sleeping pill and went to bed.

I just think, sometimes, s**t happens. I don't know why. You get a couple of bad rolls and you start pressing. I know 3 racks of straight pool was a barrier to me but it happened when I least expected it and then the game seemed simpler somehow. It was not this weekend.

I bet, if you ran a couple in straight pool, then put your cue down and took a break, you would go back and get the rest.

See you soon...


Deeman

SPetty
11-08-2004, 02:11 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Deeman2:</font><hr> I bet, if you ran a couple in straight pool, then put your cue down and took a break, you would go back and get the rest. <hr /></blockquote>This is exactly the stuff (http://www.billiardsdigest.com/ccboard/showthreaded.php?Cat=&amp;Board=ccb&amp;Number=161308&amp;page =1&amp;view=collapsed&amp;sb=5&amp;o=31&amp;vc=1) I was talking about a week or so ago - it's just that my limit is more like three balls than three racks... /ccboard/images/graemlins/frown.gif

woody_968
11-08-2004, 02:12 PM
Well, the easy answer is to tell you to stop counting the racks untill you are done shooting so you dont put added pressure on yourself. But actually doing that is next to impossible /ccboard/images/graemlins/crazy.gif

Next I might suggest paying attention to what stopped your run. Did you simply miss a ball? Did you play bad shape that caused you to miss a harder shot than you should have had? Did you leave trouble balls till late in the rack, and then not be able to get them opened up? Did you run into a ball on accident and tie up balls late in the rack that you then couldnt open up?

Looking for these things, and then putting some time on the table to practice what ever it was that stopped your run is what needs to be done to reach the higher levels.

Woody - needs to start following his own advice /ccboard/images/graemlins/shocked.gif

Deeman2
11-08-2004, 02:31 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote SPetty:</font><hr> <blockquote><font class="small">Quote Deeman2:</font><hr> I bet, if you ran a couple in straight pool, then put your cue down and took a break, you would go back and get the rest. <hr /></blockquote>This is exactly the stuff (http://www.billiardsdigest.com/ccboard/showthreaded.php?Cat=&amp;Board=ccb&amp;Number=161308&amp;page =1&amp;view=collapsed&amp;sb=5&amp;o=31&amp;vc=1) I was talking about a week or so ago - it's just that my limit is more like three balls than three racks... /ccboard/images/graemlins/frown.gif <hr /></blockquote>

It's all relative you know. Somewhere Earl is saying, "Darn, if I could just get by that 11th rack, I could play this game!"

We are all just dogs to this great game anyway...

Prediction, I will draw SPetty, she will break in the nine. She will then break leaving the 1-9 dead into the corner and I'll be tight against the three on the other end. I'll foul and she beats me having already a game on the wire....

Deeman
call me Doomsberry....

SpiderMan
11-08-2004, 02:40 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Deeman2:</font><hr> Despite my recent bragging, this weekend I hit a wall (serves me right). I played in three tournaments. I couldn't get a roll, couldn't make a ball and couldn't get out from the 5!!!!

Tori said she thought an evil spirit had overtaken me. I finally went to a small tournament that I am barred from and let her play. I swear, she didn't make a ball or win a game so we were at home by 9:00p.m. I took a sleeping pill and went to bed.

I just think, sometimes, s**t happens. I don't know why. You get a couple of bad rolls and you start pressing. I know 3 racks of straight pool was a barrier to me but it happened when I least expected it and then the game seemed simpler somehow. It was not this weekend.

I bet, if you ran a couple in straight pool, then put your cue down and took a break, you would go back and get the rest.

See you soon...
Deeman <hr /></blockquote>

I have a favorite $5 Friday-night tournament that I try to make every week. The house matches the pot and there's no pool sharks. I've gotten to where I think of it as collecting my weekly allowance.

For the past four weeks or so, I've drawn my friend (who I've been bringing to the tourney) in the first or second round, and beat him every time, feeling bad about it because I talked him into playing.

This week we had about 35 players, the pot was well over $300, and my friend and I were seeded at opposite ends of the chart. Perfect! But this time I finished out of the money and he collected $100 for second! Now I wonder if I "needed" the boost of playing him early, or maybe he "needed" to not play me? More likely, I just tripped over myself and played bad /ccboard/images/graemlins/smile.gif

SpiderMan

HallofFame
11-08-2004, 03:09 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote woody_968:</font><hr> Next I might suggest paying attention to what stopped your run. Did you simply miss a ball? Did you play bad shape that caused you to miss a harder shot than you should have had? Did you leave trouble balls till late in the rack, and then not be able to get them opened up? Did you run into a ball on accident and tie up balls late in the rack that you then couldnt open up?<hr /></blockquote>

Well,

There is a lot to be said for that statement, just about sums up ALL pool players; you have to learn by your mistakes or you will NEVER get any better.

I shoot and take lessons from Jimmy Rempe, we play a lot of 14.1; this is what he told me:

"You will run 20's for a while until you figure out you are stuck, usually your are doing something wrong with your focus, stance, etc. Then, after you correct the problem you will break out of the 20's into the 30's and the process will repeat itself; you will get stuck in the 30's, etc."

I would venture to guess that 99 percent of the time a shot is missed in 14.1 is because of lost FOCUS, you are not dealing with hard shots here ( at least you should not be ) and sometimes you tend to take it for granted that it is a hanger; don't bet on it!!! For some reason players think this game is easy to play, you are NOW playing in a 4 1/2 foot square, your mind is NOW racing a thousand miles an hour because there is so much to deal with.

I am not promoting Jimmy's material; actually, it is Pat Fleming's material. But call Accu-Stats and get both of Rempe's straight pool tapes, I guarantee you will improve your 14.1 game.

Here are some quick tips:

Clear balls away from the front of the corner pockets

Clear balls off the rail unless they can be used for a key ball

DON'T run into balls that already go into a pocket, this nearly always results in tieing up balls

You need to play both billiards and pool together, be aware of places where you need to GENTLY bump balls into a better position ( break shot for example )

Do not kick balls up table if you can avoid it.

Deal with loose balls up table as soon as you can, make sure you have an easy shot near a pocket to get back down table.

woody_968
11-08-2004, 03:09 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote SpiderMan:</font><hr> <blockquote><font class="small">Quote Deeman2:</font><hr> there's no pool sharks. I've gotten to where I think of it as collecting my weekly allowance.


SpiderMan <hr /></blockquote>

um, that sort of makes you sound like the shark in the waters /ccboard/images/graemlins/tongue.gif

woody_968
11-08-2004, 03:15 PM
Those are all good suggestions HOF. I have one of Rempe's tapes, I also have one of Segals instructional tapes, great stuff!

The only ones I would put any questions on would be:

Leaving a ball on or close to the rail for a key ball, I always try to avoid this if possible.

Clearing the balls up table early, there are times that I think its better to leave a coupld balls up table for a while. If you must go into the rack again sometimes you will lose the cueball up table and you may be glad these are still there.

Not trying to contradict what he is teaching, he is obviously better than I am, just some food for thought.

HallofFame
11-08-2004, 03:29 PM
Good point Woody,

Balls up table do not necessarily HAVE to be cleared early, I have often used a single up table ball as a key ball.

I know what Jimmy's answer to going into the rack and losing the cue ball would be: "you must know where the cue ball is going at ALL times, do not NEEDLESSLY plow into the rack and loose the cue ball".

I know what you're talking about, Jimmy would call these balls "insurance balls"; that's one tip I forgot.

NEVER go into the rack unless you have a shot after you break the pack; in other words, a ball hanging near a pocket on the side the cue ball goes into the pack.

I never used side rail breaks until Jimmy showed me a technique he learned from "Wimpy", who used it on break balls on or near the rail.

Joe

Chris Cass
11-08-2004, 03:50 PM
Hi Chops,

Just curious? Have you tried playing some Q-Skill for a few times? I think this can help you out some with your straight pool game. The reasoning behind my thinking is the misses and the shots missed will be much more in your mind. You can document them as I do and enough mistakes in the same area, might just be something worth looking into?

I know the break is everything in that particular game in scoring the 20's but if you look past that? You'll be able to keep a record of your personal odds of taking certain shots while getting that 20. I too have had many problems as of late. I'm trying to string more than 4 racks of 20 points in a row. I did 5 racks of 20 once. It seems I take shots that are not falling into the odds, I would like them to. Seems that I should be making them as I do in other games but. Odds are odds I guess?

Regards,

C.C.~~let me know how your doing bud.

HallofFame
11-08-2004, 04:00 PM
VIDEO CAMERA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

This will tell you EVERYTHING you need to know about your pool game; e.g.

Are you rushing your game?

Are you "yipping" your stroke?

Is you stance correct and comfortable?

Are you changing you bridge lenght?

Of course, if you do not have a home table and set up a camera and tripod at you local pool hall I'm sure you will get some well aimed adjectives thrown at you.

But, as they say in the film industry; "the camera NEVER lies".

Joe

Chris Cass
11-08-2004, 06:58 PM
Hi HOF Joe,

I use a video camera and have for 2 yrs. I've caught many errors in my game with it. I've brought it to the hall and have also set it up on a tripod many times. Made tapes even for my FLA buddy. I take full advantage of the equipment I buy. Tghanks for the info though. It's solid advice.

Regards,

C.C.

#### leonard
11-09-2004, 06:37 AM
Hall of Fame, the next time your with Jimmie ask him who was the great player from Scranton that everyone from that area would talk about.####

#### leonard
11-09-2004, 06:52 AM
The first time I ran a hundred,I was well aware of the situation, the fellow that owned one of the rooms in Troy had run 99 twice and 98 a couple of times. When his name was mentioned as a poolplayer it was always with a Yeeeaaah but he never ran a hundred.

So I was going to run that 100 and to make sure, I opted for the safe 100 instead of trying to break out bad balls and getting safe, I took the safe 101. The Barrier had been broken and the flood gates opened up.

I still to this day talk to the fellow that I ran that 101 on. When he comes back East we still get together and laugh over the 101.

Chopstick
11-09-2004, 07:53 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote HallofFame:</font><hr>

I would venture to guess that 99 percent of the time a shot is missed in 14.1 is because of lost FOCUS,

<hr /></blockquote>

I think this is where the main problem lies. It's the reason I started practicing 14:1 again. I'll check out the Rempe tapes. I think if I can break 45 my eight ball and nine ball problems will go away.

Chopstick
11-09-2004, 07:54 AM
Never heard of Q-skill. I'll look it up.

Chopstick
11-09-2004, 07:57 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote HallofFame:</font><hr>

VIDEO CAMERA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

<hr /></blockquote>

OK, I have one. I'll set up.

SpiderMan
11-09-2004, 08:10 AM
I like Fargo better than Q-Skill. It's similar, but also adds the dimension of tactics, ie when to switch to rotation. When you get to Dallas we can play it some, I've got some excel scoresheets and rules.

It's a solitaire game, so you keep score and chart your progress. In order to play it with several friends, you alternate racks and keep a running total. Even though it doesn't measure defensive smarts, I still feel that I could judge a player's speed pretty well if I knew his Fargo average on a particular table.

SpiderMan

Steve Lipsky
11-09-2004, 08:19 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote HallofFame:</font><hr> I would venture to guess that 99 percent of the time a shot is missed in 14.1 is because of lost FOCUS. <hr /></blockquote>

While I agree with most of what you wrote, HoF, I don't agree with this. Straight pool is not given enough credit for being a difficult game to play. Your statement implies the only thing hard about it is to stay focused.

If you play the wrong shot in 14.1, or you miss position on a key shot by even an inch, your run can be in serious trouble. You then often have to play a much more difficult shot to get back in line. This is standard fare.

I don't think it requires much more focus to play 14.1 than 9-ball, for instance. It might require less. It requires a different skill set, to be sure. That is what draws me to the game.

- Steve

HallofFame
11-09-2004, 10:28 AM
HI Leonard,

Hum,

There are a lot of great players from Scranton:

Leo Gallo? Hum, Leonard / Leo; is this you Leo?

Gip

Caras

Did I pick the one your are talking about? If I didn't, be a bit more specific, for example; time period.

Hi Steve,

Absolutely,

I didn't mention shooting the wrong shot because I thought that might be a bit advanced; 14.1 isn't 9 ball, a quarter or eight inch off in 9 ball won't cause much of a problem, but in 14.1 it could mean the game. Shot selection in 14.1 is critical. What Jimmy had me doing was playing "my" game in matches, but shoot the correct shot selection ( which means maybe a bit harder shot ) in practice; then when I'm comfortable with the tougher shots, incorporate them in my game. This has really worked wonders, high runs seem to leap from the table when you shoot the correct shot at the correct time.

I wish 14.1 would come back in a big way; at the other local halls here in Northeast PA it's ALL 9 ball, but Maggie's is full of all "old timer's" like my self; and we cherish our 14.1 game as being the best game in pocket billiards. Comet Billiards in NJ just held a tournament that I was unable to attend, but all that will change on New Year's Eve when I formally retire. I will begin to watch out for anything in the Northeast concerning 14.1, and would appreciate anyone who has info on 14.1 tournaments; even if they are just small local's with minimal cashing. I just would like to play competitive 14.1 outside NEPA. I usually check out the tournaments section over at Az but with little luck.

Joe

NBC-BOB
11-09-2004, 01:38 PM
Well chopstick being able to run a few racks means you play pretty good.But being unable to maintain your concentration level,in straight pool,tells me that you have to work on your fundamentals some more.It's easy to let up after a few racks and I've been guilty of that myself many times.
Don't look at the score and think about how many racks your into.Instead try getting yourself more into the game, by walking around the table,checking the angles,and then get down,and take the same amount of strokes with every shot,regardless of how easy the shot looks.Once you look over the table, and decide on your shot, and the position your playing,do not second guess yourself, and take a different shot.If your going to do this you have to standup, and redo all by walking around the table, and reprogramming your brain.Bob

HallofFame
11-09-2004, 02:52 PM
Hi,

Came online to kill some time and remembered another big cause of missing shots.

I mentioned "yipping" (rushing your final stroke) your stroke, Jimmy says there is a tendency by ALL players to rush (not pause) on the final stroke of a difficult shot (over ball, off rail, long shot) because they want to get it over with.

Watch other players and see how they handle the final stroke on a difficult shot. Now, some players DO NOT pause at the final stroke; there has always been a big controversy by both factions of players (those who do and those who do not pause). This is a bad discussion to get into with SERIOUS players; but I will say this: I was a no pauser but Jimmy made me become a pauser. He would not take me to a higher level UNTIL I stopped "yipping" my stroke. My game has improved dramatically since I started pausing, I'll run a century at least once a week now, IF I'm in stroke.

Joe

#### leonard
11-09-2004, 03:04 PM
Hall of Fame I know Leo Gallo, the player I am thinking about was long before him. If Leo is still around there tell him Dick "Butch" Leonard said hello.

Carol NYC alerted me to the #### leaving most people in the dark on the ####.

The CCB instituted a Filth Filter and Dick became #### when they changed the filter I stuck with the ####. It is like the new birth control/candy mint that is coming on the market. You take it before sex, it will be called Pre-####-a-Mint in my honor.

It dawned on me that in all my years playing pool, I don't think I ever spoke to Jimmy. The only time I saw him was when I was playing Weenie Beanie in George's in Suitland,Maryland and he was sitting on a bench. I didn't even give him a nod. The first comandment in pool is not to acknowledge a poolplayer in a strange room.

I must have played in the Worlds Qualifer at the Roosevelt Hotel with him but my memory draws a blank if I ever said one word to him.####

JimS
11-10-2004, 06:33 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote #### leonard:</font><hr> Pre-####-a-Mint in my honor.

<hr /></blockquote>

LOLOLOLOLOLOLOL...ROFLMFAO!!

Great line. Wish we lived closer. /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif

SpiderMan
11-10-2004, 07:06 AM
No, really I'm far from a shark. Maybe a medium-size octopus, or a catfish, but probably a mullet ...... I have overheard myself being referred to as "the fish".

Still, in a town this size, you can pick the waters to have a thrilling swim yet avoid being eaten.

SpiderMan

dmgwalsh
11-10-2004, 10:00 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote HallofFame:</font><hr> <blockquote><font class="small">Quote woody_968:</font><hr> Next I might suggest paying attention to what stopped your run. Did you simply miss a ball? Did you play bad shape that caused you to miss a harder shot than you should have had? Did you leave trouble balls till late in the rack, and then not be able to get them opened up? Did you run into a ball on accident and tie up balls late in the rack that you then couldnt open up?<hr /></blockquote>

Well,

There is a lot to be said for that statement, just about sums up ALL pool players; you have to learn by your mistakes or you will NEVER get any better.

I shoot and take lessons from Jimmy Rempe, we play a lot of 14.1; this is what he told me:

"You will run 20's for a while until you figure out you are stuck, usually your are doing something wrong with your focus, stance, etc. Then, after you correct the problem you will break out of the 20's into the 30's and the process will repeat itself; you will get stuck in the 30's, etc."

I would venture to guess that 99 percent of the time a shot is missed in 14.1 is because of lost FOCUS, you are not dealing with hard shots here ( at least you should not be ) and sometimes you tend to take it for granted that it is a hanger; don't bet on it!!! For some reason players think this game is easy to play, you are NOW playing in a 4 1/2 foot square, your mind is NOW racing a thousand miles an hour because there is so much to deal with.

I am not promoting Jimmy's material; actually, it is Pat Fleming's material. But call Accu-Stats and get both of Rempe's straight pool tapes, I guarantee you will improve your 14.1 game.

Here are some quick tips:

Clear balls away from the front of the corner pockets

Clear balls off the rail unless they can be used for a key ball

DON'T run into balls that already go into a pocket, this nearly always results in tieing up balls

You need to play both billiards and pool together, be aware of places where you need to GENTLY bump balls into a better position ( break shot for example )

Do not kick balls up table if you can avoid it.

Deal with loose balls up table as soon as you can, make sure you have an easy shot near a pocket to get back down table. <hr /></blockquote>

Thanks for the tips from Rempe and you. If you are running hundreds, you must be pretty good.

I'm still fooling around with 20s and low 30s. I'll keep trying.

Rod
11-10-2004, 10:30 AM
[ QUOTE ]
I'm good for about 25 balls and that's it. These aren't difficult shots I'm missing. I have heard that the third rack of straight pool is like the sound barrier. Once you get past that you can really go.

I'm stumped. <hr /></blockquote>

Well you know your not missing difficult shots. Must be your loosing focus on easier shots. Maybe your just getting a little quick to pull the trigger which is common.

I don't know about the sound barrier but you'll gain some confidence which is always good. You'll also gain experience in patterns and ball pocketing repetition. It's all steps but high runs with some consistancy is what pays off.

Rod

HallofFame
11-10-2004, 11:23 AM
Hi dmgwalsh,

Well, you make it sound as if I run century's everytime I get to the table; I WISH /ccboard/images/graemlins/frown.gif

I guess a better representation of my ability would be "an average of once a week", many times it's just 20's, 30's, or 40's; sometimes 5's, and 6's.

Two good rules to live by when playing pocket billiards are:

Take what the balls present themselves as.

Don't take any chances, especially when playing 14.1

It's no sin to make 10 or 20 balls and play a safe if you do not have a high percentage shot, Irving Crane won many matches by running 20's and 30's then playing safe; Crane was noted for his GREAT safety play

Another thing I don't do is play serious billiards when I am sick, if you have a cold or the flu your balance and perception is off and if you are a person who gets aggrevated easily when missing shots your better off just practicing banks, kicks, or EASY drills until you feel better.

Joe

dmgwalsh
11-10-2004, 12:17 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote HallofFame:</font><hr> Hi dmgwalsh,

Well, you make it sound as if I run century's everytime I get to the table; I WISH /ccboard/images/graemlins/frown.gif

I guess a better representation of my ability would be "an average of once a week", many times it's just 20's, 30's, or 40's; sometimes 5's, and 6's.


once a week, jeesh! Once a lifetime is a goal for a lot of us.

Two good rules to live by when playing pocket billiards are:

Take what the balls present themselves as.

Don't take any chances, especially when playing 14.1

It's no sin to make 10 or 20 balls and play a safe if you do not have a high percentage shot, Irving Crane won many matches by running 20's and 30's then playing safe; Crane was noted for his GREAT safety play

Another thing I don't do is play serious billiards when I am sick, if you have a cold or the flu your balance and perception is off and if you are a person who gets aggrevated easily when missing shots your better off just practicing banks, kicks, or EASY drills until you feel better.

Joe
<hr /></blockquote>

Joe-thanks for the tips. I'll try to apply some of them to my straight pool league play tonight. dennis