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Gayle in MD
11-13-2004, 08:02 AM
Anyone interested or concerned about some realistic projected results of the Bush economy might want to pick up a copy of "The Coming Generational Storm"

Gayle in Md. /ccboard/images/graemlins/smile.gif

wolfdancer
11-15-2004, 12:40 PM
Gayle, not sure I could handle the news...I read where very family's share of the current national debt, is around a half mil.....but don't worry, they're printing more money, as we speak

highsea
11-15-2004, 01:27 PM
That would be your average family of 20.

U.S. NATIONAL DEBT CLOCK

The Outstanding Public Debt as of 15 Nov 2004 at 08:31:16 PM GMT is:$7,448,111,152,909.16

The estimated population of the United States is 294,806,503
so each citizen's share of this debt is $25,264.41.

http://www.brillig.com/debt_clock/

wolfdancer
11-15-2004, 01:52 PM
gee, don't confuse the issue with facts.....I stand by my post though....I'll try to find the source

wolfdancer
11-15-2004, 10:56 PM
I saw those figures on one site...but this is the one I was quoting from... Your site sounds more official
http://www.miprox.de/Wirtschaft_allgemein/US-Schulden_The_big_Picture_fuer_2002.htm

highsea
11-15-2004, 11:41 PM
The site you linked in Denmark actually links back to a site in the US that matches my post.

http://mwhodges.home.att.net/debt.htm

Where these huge numbers come in is when you add private debt in also. They include business, household, and finance sector debt in their totals, and they project out debts for Social Security and Medicare. Then they call it the "National Debt", when that term is generally understood to actually refer to the public debt. They just add up everything that everyone owes to everyone else, but is that a good definition of National Debt?

The site I listed above also makes an error of assumption. He states that in four years we went from surplus to deficit with a $1Tn. swing. This is not true. Where we went was from a projected 10 year surplus to a projected 10 year deficit.

In reality the Congress has spent more each year than it has collected every year since 1969. But raw number comparisons are not very descriptive. They need to be measured against the GDP to be meaningful from an economic perspective.

A person making 60K a year may buy a 150K house on a 30 year note. He just went into a debt 2.5 times his annual salary. The US has a GDP of $11Tn. Should a $7.4Tn debt worry us? Yes, if the economy goes stagnant, servicing that debt may be uncomfortable, but if it continues to grow, it's not that big of a deal. IIRC the deficit is currently about 3.6% of GDP, down from a peak of about 6% during the Reagan years.

The Social Security issue is a different can of worms. Imo, the government should not be involved in ponzi schemes anyway. I say privatize it, or at least make individual accounts so Congress cannot raid the cookie jar.

eg8r
11-16-2004, 06:21 AM
[ QUOTE ]
In reality the Congress has spent more each year than it has collected every year since 1969. But raw number comparisons are not very descriptive. They need to be measured against the GDP to be meaningful from an economic perspective.
<hr /></blockquote> This is something you will not read in the economists books. Wonder what Kotlikoff's (or whatever his name is) response would be?

Time and time again, liberals ignore the GDP. They state this is the highest debt has ever been, but when compared to GDP it is not close.

[ QUOTE ]
The Social Security issue is a different can of worms. Imo, the government should not be involved in ponzi schemes anyway. I say privatize it, or at least make individual accounts so Congress cannot raid the cookie jar. <hr /></blockquote> Agreed.

eg8r