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DeadStrokeMan
11-15-2004, 02:47 PM
I am going to re-rail my 1942 9' brunswick. What are the best rails ?

Also - the pocket size (corner) is 4.5 tapering to 4" - I would like to REDUCE this if possible by using a longer rail ... can that be done? Say ... 1.5" longer to trim off 3/4" on each pocket?

RedHell
11-15-2004, 02:57 PM
If you want to trim your rail by 3/4 inch, you need your rail to be 3/4 inch longer not 1.5. Remember that 2 rails touches the pocket.

The way you explained it, you would have to increase a rail out of 2 to get it to work and that would make your table out of balance.

BTW, I believe that if your pocket are currently 4.5 you can't trim your pocket. BCA regulation are:

Corner Pocket: Mouth Between 4 7/8" minimum to 5 1/8" maximum
Side Pocket: Mouth Between 5 3/8" minimum to 5 5/8" maximum

SnakebyteXX
11-15-2004, 03:20 PM
[ QUOTE ]
I am going to re-rail my 1942 9' brunswick. <hr /></blockquote>

To the best of my knowledge you need to match the angle of your old rails - not just any rail replacement will do.

Snake

ps. 1942? Cool. What model is it?

tateuts
11-15-2004, 07:35 PM
I just had my rails replaced with German Artemis k-66 spec rubber. A good table mechanic can replace it and cut the rails the way you want. The rubber comes in long lengths and they cut it to fit. I had my corners trimmed to 4" and sides are 4.5". They corners are cut with little or no taper. I would say this is about as tight as you want to go because you really have to be in stroke to pocket the balls.

The rubber was $250 - there is a lot of labor involved - at least 5 to 7 hours I would say in prep and installation time. The Artemis rubber costs a little more but it is absolutely heaven. My entire cost was $700 with new Simonis and it was like getting a brand new high end table - I am very pleased with it.

Chris

wolfdancer
11-15-2004, 08:34 PM
Check out the past few issues at www.onthebreaknews.com/ (http://www.onthebreaknews.com/)
Specifically Pat Sheehan's articles (pg 12) on cushions. Pat made my pocket openings identicle to the notorious table #1 at Family Billiards in SF. They're so tight, I have to spray silicone on the balls, so they'll slide in.
Seriously, Pat has some interesting info on cushions, profiles, etc

DeadStrokeMan
11-17-2004, 12:40 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote wolfdancer:</font><hr> Check out the past few issues at www.onthebreaknews.com/ (http://www.onthebreaknews.com/)
Specifically Pat Sheehan's articles (pg 12) on cushions. Pat made my pocket openings identicle to the notorious table #1 at Family Billiards in SF. They're so tight, I have to spray silicone on the balls, so they'll slide in.
Seriously, Pat has some interesting info on cushions, profiles, etc <hr /></blockquote>

I read that - thank you - Seems he prefers the k55. Quiet "bumps" against the rail. Yes - I believe "noise" is a dead give away to a dead rail.

Does anyone know what they use to cut the rail? Band saw I presume.

DeadStrokeMan
11-17-2004, 12:44 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote RedHell:</font><hr> BCA regulation are:

Corner Pocket: Mouth Between 4 7/8" minimum to 5 1/8" maximum
Side Pocket: Mouth Between 5 3/8" minimum to 5 5/8" maximum <hr /></blockquote>

I think the BCA is CRAZY. Seems they want to "entertain" someone out there with lots of "dropped balls". Thats just too large - Like breeding 10' basket ball players and leaving the hoop height the same /ccboard/images/graemlins/smile.gif

As long as you can drill a ball down the rail and dump it in at high speed - the pocket is good (IMO). Side pocket would be a ratio of corner pocket size larger.

Better to train on "tight" pockets than BCA buckets /ccboard/images/graemlins/tongue.gif

tateuts
11-17-2004, 10:22 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote DeadStrokeMan:</font><hr> Does anyone know what they use to cut the rail? Band saw I presume. <hr /></blockquote>

My mechanic, Ernesto Dominguez, just used a sharp knife and cut them by hand. He took my table down, went to his shop and made the rails, came back and installed.

Atremis rubber is very quiet and consistent. This is what he recommended and he's seen it all. I have to agree it is superior to anything I've played on, even though it's a little more costly. It absords the energy smoothy and rebounds consistently without popping up the object ball. Bank shots are a pleasure to shoot too - no funny stuff.

Chris

Rod
11-17-2004, 11:19 AM
My mechanic at the time used a sharp knife as well. It looked kind of special though, it was flat compared to a regular tapered knife blade and more of a retangular shape. At any rate he used water as a lubricant to help prevent blade drag going through the rubber.

Rod

DeadStrokeMan
11-17-2004, 06:22 PM
Hmmm I found this (looks like these are preCut /ccboard/images/graemlins/frown.gif )

Replacement set of K-55 profile rubber bumpers. Available in sizes to fit 7 or 8 foot and 9 foot billiards. These rubber bumpers are used most often on coin operated and carom billiard games. It has slightly larger dimensions than the more common K66 style. Quality bumpers are made out of pure gum rubber and have cloth facings on bumper top and back. Set of six 7-8 foot bumpers are 43 inches long.
Set Of 6 Replacement K-55 Bumpers
Price $52.95

http://www.moneymachines.com/railcushions.html

Can anyone help in locating the best rails for this Brunswick 1942 Sportsman?

Did the older tables use this same "configuration" (tounge ect.) such that this would fit?

Is k55 artemis rubber? (warning: rubber in a search engine turns up more than billiards /ccboard/images/graemlins/tongue.gif )

Rod
11-17-2004, 06:45 PM
Nope, you still have to cut the pocket angles. I have no idea about those cushions but you should be sure before you buy. Check out the local rooms and see what there using. It's a lot of work and expense to buy junk cushions. Do some homework.

I'd be even more curious as to the installed height. Brunswick makes a super speed cushion, check that out. I doubt there much more money if any. Make a move based on the best possible information. You'll get more replies, Artemis is a good cushion but your over 2 hundred there alone. I know a table using Artemis and I don't care for them on that table. It's not a 9 foot Brunswick though.

Since your dealing with a 42 Brunswick who knows how the rails were cut, I don't. There was a post about a guy that restored a 1945 Brunswick. It looks great, ask him what was used and how it played. It was just in the last month, do a search. Maybe someone will find it for you -- Like SPetty or Wally. LOL Good Luck

Rod

SnakebyteXX
11-17-2004, 07:19 PM
[ QUOTE ]
There was a post about a guy that restored a 1945 Brunswick. It looks great, ask him what was used and how it played. <hr /></blockquote>

Ummmm... that just might be me. A Brunswick Centennial as a matter of fact. Replaced the original cushions with Artemis rubber but the rails were cut to accomodate their angle (cut rails NOT cut cushions). LOVE MY ARTEMIS CUSHIONS!!

You might want to email the Brunswick folks directly and ask them for an answer. Try emailing joan.ledanski@brunswickbilliards.com she may at least have data on the K-55 versus K-66 issue re the Sport King. She was very helpful when I sent requests for info on my Centennial. They lost a lot of important records regarding these older tables due to a couple of major natural disasters at their main factory (fire and flood) years ago - so many of the original records were destroyed. Even so they do what they can to help.

Not sure if your 1943 production year is accurate as Brunswick was pretty involved in War production from 41 to 45 and not cranking out a lot of tables for sale to the public. With the exception of their 'Liberty' model which they made for the Armed Services and shipped to military bases all over the world. Not saying it's NOT a 1943 model - just not sure if they were making them then is all.

Centennials and Anniversary's were first produced in 1945 after the War was over. 100th Anniversary of Brunswick's start in business.

Brunswick made Sport Kings from the 1940's and well into the 1950's if not 1960's so unless they changed the style of the table over the years there should be abundant information available.

Snake

SPetty
11-17-2004, 07:34 PM
Here's that original post (http://www.billiardsdigest.com/ccboard/showflat.php?Cat=&amp;Board=ccb&amp;Number=160191&amp;page=&amp;vi ew=&amp;sb=&amp;o=&amp;vc=1) :


Very very very sweet table:
http://img11.paintedover.com/uploads/11/g_31_centennial__circa_1945.jpg

tateuts
11-17-2004, 09:21 PM
Rod is correct that determining the height of the rail is important - who knows how your table is set up compared to todays tables? However, the rail height can be monkeyed around with to a certain extent by a mechanic.

Artemis cushsions are German made full gum rubber cushions with a true K66 profile. K66 is a spec I guess and there are a lot of American made copies which are considered inferior.

To give you an idea, almost all of the top end tables come with Artemis K-66 because it is known as the best. If you are used to playing on a table with boingy cushions, the play is considerably different. The Artemis cushions really take the english and rebound consistently. Once you're used to the rubber, you can see why it is so well liked.

Another issue is that you want to buy the uncut cushions if you can, because the pockets can be cleanly cut instead of shimmed. Shims don't really make the sharpest corners and they can deform (curve) and play wierd.

Why go through all this hassle and labor, to save $100 on cheaper, inferior cushions? Cushions and cloth literally make the table.

Chris

Rod
11-17-2004, 09:36 PM
IKYCT-- LOL

Rod
11-17-2004, 09:40 PM
Yes it was you, nice table. That's why I mentioned your table. They should be the same. B/W made a change in the 60's so It's important to pick like tables. Hope he contacts you or your mechanic.

Rod

DeadStrokeMan
11-17-2004, 10:50 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Snake:</font><hr>
Ummmm... that just might be me. A Brunswick Centennial as a matter of fact. Replaced the original cushions with Artemis rubber but the rails were cut to accomodate their angle (cut rails NOT cut cushions). LOVE MY ARTEMIS CUSHIONS!!

You might want to email the Brunswick folks directly and ask them for an answer. Try emailing joan.ledanski@brunswickbilliards.com she may at least have data on the K-55 versus K-66 issue re the Sport King. She was very helpful when I sent requests for info on my Centennial. They lost a lot of important records regarding these older tables due to a couple of major natural disasters at their main factory (fire and flood) years ago - so many of the original records were destroyed. Even so they do what they can to help.

Not sure if your 1943 production year is accurate as Brunswick was pretty involved in War production from 41 to 45 and not cranking out a lot of tables for sale to the public. With the exception of their 'Liberty' model which they made for the Armed Services and shipped to military bases all over the world. Not saying it's NOT a 1943 model - just not sure if they were making them then is all.

Centennials and Anniversary's were first produced in 1945 after the War was over. 100th Anniversary of Brunswick's start in business.

Brunswick made Sport Kings from the 1940's and well into the 1950's if not 1960's so unless they changed the style of the table over the years there should be abundant information available.

Snake <hr /></blockquote>

Hmm - you could very well be right on this. The "Plate" is missing from the table. I was "told" that was the year. Does anyone have any "snapshots" on the web with all the old brunswick models?

It says "Sportsman" (not King) in several places. The slate 1 +1/16 ". Slate is rough at the joints ...been mistreated. I just now leveled off the slate and bondo'd the joint ... in fact ... I'm typing this waiting for the bondo to dry up a tad so I can "cheeze" it to level.

Learned A TON from doing this ...I'm glad I've chozen to do this myself. Oh - and I just learned that my cousin used to setup tables for 2 years - So I'll have him help me with the rails after I get the proper rubber for them. For now I'M BROKE and have to do with the bad rails for a while. Check this - so broke I "dry cleaned" the old cloth (LOL) and will use it for a few months until I get the rails and simonis.

SnakebyteXX
11-17-2004, 11:36 PM
[ QUOTE ]
Very very very sweet table:
<hr /></blockquote>

Thank you kindly. My grand old Centennial looks even more beautiful now that I've hung a Diamond Tournament light above her. Proper lighting sets the table off quite nicely. Diamond was a good choice.

Sometimes older IS better.

Snake &lt;-- feels blessed (blissed?)

DeadStrokeMan
11-17-2004, 11:46 PM
LOL - Ok - table slate all clean and ready now. Talk about FAST ..haha - put a brand new aramith cue ball on the table and "blow on it" - it gently rolls all the way to the other end! Sheesh - good thing we use cloth, the ball would NEVER stop. Its a great way to be sure you leveled up correctly.

SnakebyteXX
11-18-2004, 07:30 AM
[ QUOTE ]
Does anyone have any "snapshots" on the web with all the old brunswick models? <hr /></blockquote>

This old EBay listing has a couple of pretty good pix of a Brunswick Sportsman. From what I gather the Sportsman pre-dates the SportKing. I still think contacting Brunswick would be your best bet for finding additional info.

Sportsman on EBay (http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&amp;item=7105143978)