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Billy_Bob
11-16-2004, 11:26 AM
My fellow team members on one of my league teams do not want to practice. Then they get disgusted with themselves when another team leaves us in the dust (and then say they should have practiced). They want all the glory of winning, but don't want to make the effort to work on getting there.

(I play on another team/league where everyone practices and is one of the best teams in the league.)

I'm getting disgusted with this non-practicing team. It is not necessarily a big deal to me that we are losing matches... It is just that I see a lot of potential in these guys and have seen what they can do with just a little practice. They are not improving their playing any when they could be.

I'm not the team captain, but I have tried to encourage them to practice and have shown them some specific drills which helps them with problems they are having. They practice the drills for 5 minutes, then shoot those shots better, then never again practice on their own. Then next the tournament, they have the same troubles.

I guess you can lead a horse to water...

Anyway there is no way this team has any chance of winning anything at this point, which gives me an opportunity to do a little experimenting with my playing. My safety play is terrible, so I was thinking I could use the remaining matches this season to play safeties rather than playing offensively as I have been. Also I have never tried to break wide open and run the table in league tournaments. Up to now, I have broken with clusters of balls so the other players can't run out.

My "experimenting" will help me in the long run and I really need to practice this stuff against better players at some point. This is a BCA team, so the only downside in doing this will be that I will get less money back at the end of the season (Ok with me). This will not affect my team any except instead of 5th place (no awards) we might wind up in 6th place (no awards).

So do you folks think I should use my remaining tournaments in this league to practice the things I am not good at and hopefully improve my playing for my other team and future play? Or should I play the best as I currently know how and do my experimenting elsewhere?

Rich R.
11-16-2004, 11:54 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Billy_Bob:</font><hr>They want all the glory of winning, but don't want to make the effort to work on getting there.<hr /></blockquote>
This is very typical of a lot of league players. There is probably nothing you can say to change them. They have to find the desire to improve within themselves.

<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Billy_Bob:</font><hr>Anyway there is no way this team has any chance of winning anything at this point, which gives me an opportunity to do a little experimenting with my playing. My safety play is terrible, so I was thinking I could use the remaining matches this season to play safeties rather than playing offensively as I have been. Also I have never tried to break wide open and run the table in league tournaments. Up to now, I have broken with clusters of balls so the other players can't run out.

My "experimenting" will help me in the long run and I really need to practice this stuff against better players at some point. This is a BCA team, so the only downside in doing this will be that I will get less money back at the end of the season (Ok with me). This will not affect my team any except instead of 5th place (no awards) we might wind up in 6th place (no awards).<hr /></blockquote>

In your current situation, I see nothing wrong with using the league as practice time, but that is me.
Your teamates may not appreciate losing the few dollars they may get. If you choose to do that, you may not want to mention it to the rest of the team. Just play the way you want to play. Chances are, they may not notice.

Bob_Jewett
11-16-2004, 01:44 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Billy_Bob:</font><hr> ...
So do you folks think I should use my remaining tournaments in this league to practice the things I am not good at and hopefully improve my playing for my other team and future play? Or should I play the best as I currently know how and do my experimenting elsewhere?
<hr /></blockquote>
I think that if you're in a competitive team situation, you have to do your best for the team. But if you hang around with turkeys, it's hard to fly like an eagle. Find a different team, unless you are in it for the social aspect.

When I played on an eight ball team, one of the guys was a pretty good shot, but he started to shake every time he needed to draw the ball. It is not hard to learn to draw the ball, but he absolutely refused to try my suggestions. Not even once. And so he continued to get no more than stop on his draw shots even when he hit them a hundred miles an hour.

Pelican
11-16-2004, 01:48 PM
I don't know if you have thought of this - the butt of an inexpensive two piece cue makes an excellent club to beat sense into someone.

Later /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif, Pel

Deeman2
11-16-2004, 02:10 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Billy_Bob:</font><hr> My fellow team members on one of my league teams do not want to practice. Then they get disgusted with themselves when another team leaves us in the dust (and then say they should have practiced). They want all the glory of winning, but don't want to make the effort to work on getting there.

<font color="blue"> Drop them like a disgruntled Nader voter or just decide it's a party night and belittle them with witty remarks and sarcasm. Not really, play your best game always.</font color>

(I play on another team/league where everyone practices and is one of the best teams in the league.)

<font color="blue"> Get down on your Oregonian Knees and be thankful you have that team. They are few and far between. </font color>

I'm getting disgusted with this non-practicing team. It is not necessarily a big deal to me that we are losing matches... It is just that I see a lot of potential in these guys and have seen what they can do with just a little practice. They are not improving their playing any when they could be.

<font color="blue"> I see the same thing and guys who can't run a rack taek suggestions like, "Well, I could do that but I think..." Reading a following post, "you got Bob Jewett suggesting how to draw a ball and a guy won't listen to him?" Some people just don't get it. This guy writes columns in magazines, collaborated on the Byrne books, shoots great and is willing to share this with someone free! Gee, what do they what? Certainly not to get better.</font color>

I'm not the team captain, but I have tried to encourage them to practice and have shown them some specific drills which helps them with problems they are having. They practice the drills for 5 minutes, then shoot those shots better, then never again practice on their own. Then next the tournament, they have the same troubles. <font color="blue"> See losers in Websters New Dictionary... </font color>

I guess you can lead a horse to water... <font color="blue"> Some of them you can't get to the water. </font color>

Anyway there is no way this team has any chance of winning anything at this point, which gives me an opportunity to do a little experimenting with my playing. My safety play is terrible, so I was thinking I could use the remaining matches this season to play safeties rather than playing offensively as I have been. Also I have never tried to break wide open and run the table in league tournaments. Up to now, I have broken with clusters of balls so the other players can't run out. <font color="blue">Keep working on the safety play. </font color>

My "experimenting" will help me in the long run and I really need to practice this stuff against better players at some point. <font color="blue"> Enter every open tournament you can find. </font color> This is a BCA team, so the only downside in doing this will be that I will get less money back at the end of the season (Ok with me). This will not affect my team any except instead of 5th place (no awards) we might wind up in 6th place (no awards).

So do you folks think I should use my remaining tournaments in this league to practice the things I am not good at and hopefully improve my playing for my other team and future play? Or should I play the best as I currently know how and do my experimenting elsewhere? <font color="blue"> The second alternative. You don't want to get used to experimenting during competition, it might lead to that in a real important match. IMO keep them separate.

One last thing, change your name from Billy Bob. They will think you are from Arkansas and make fun of you. /ccboard/images/graemlins/smirk.gif


Deeman </font color>
<hr /></blockquote>

Deeman2
11-16-2004, 02:12 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Pelican:</font><hr> I don't know if you have thought of this - the butt of an inexpensive two piece cue makes an excellent club to beat sense into someone.

Later /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif, Pel <hr /></blockquote>

<font color="blue"> I withdraw all my recommendations and yield to Pel. Except the Billy Bob name thing.

Deeman </font color>

Rod
11-16-2004, 03:05 PM
Some people are just that way. Who knows but maybe you could tell them about a forum. Maybe it would catch on and stir their interest. Now where to find one! lol

Rod

Sid_Vicious
11-16-2004, 05:40 PM
I captained a few early teams and most all, even some of the later ones, did not gather for even a team scrimmage. Worse yet, these people did not even get to league more than 10 minutes ahead or 10 minutes late, no warmup at all. This my friend, is the dissappointments of league play. You will(and should) look for another already formed team to switch to, asap. As far as your practice during league on purpose,,,hell no! Play for YOU, and nothing else. I will say this in defense of the early teams I had, they were the most fun and many the most dependable players I ever had. Players with "a game" are the flakiest bunch, and most of those didn't practice, just played alot or gambled. Several team mates would reside ahead of the match playing 1P on the nines and then expect to gel into an 8 or 9ball geme, on 8' tables, dumb! You can't win unless you are playing for YOU, quit worrying and just be you...sid

Angel_R
11-16-2004, 09:52 PM
This one kind of gets under my skin. When I started playing on leagues back in 88, I was playing with my pops and his friends. We understood this was just for fun and was kind of a night out with my pops.

After they retired from playing I hooked up with some of my friends from the old pool hall and we went undefeated in leagues for 5 yrs. It was a great bunch of guys to play with. We all accepted criticism very well, showed up earlier to practice or play a ring game of nine ball, whatever. We would get together and just practice and live pool.

I moved from that area and our team broke up. I started playing in the APA league this fall session and was placed on a team by the league operator. The first night we played, myself and another teammate showed up. The captain never showed up /ccboard/images/graemlins/confused.gif Needless to say, I was asked to play on another team the following week and the team I was placed on was disqualified from playing.

This team is a good team with a well rounded group of players that seem to enjoy the game for what it is worth /ccboard/images/graemlins/smile.gif Now I find myself in another dilemma, I've been rated a 7 now and found out that means less matches for me because of the handicap limit. Can't win for losing. I practice everyday and wouldn't have it any other way. I love the game and thats all there is to that.

My advice to you is play the game the best you can. Enjoy it and don't get hooked up on your teammates. After this season, there is a good chance if you put the word out you are looking for another team, you may get asked to play with someone else. If you use the time to goof around and try and practice, I venture no one would want you on their team because they haven't seen your best game and think the way you practice is the way you play.

It's just my opinion, but I hope it helps you decide. I wouldn't want to play with anyone who doesn't want to improve, especially if there is something at the end of the rainbow, like moola.

Take Care!

Barbara
11-16-2004, 10:28 PM
Billy_Bob,

You've obviously run into teammates that have a serious denial attitude. I know, I'm on the same type of team in a bar league with all the wrong rules for 8-ball, but we managed to win the League Champs for the past 6 years in a row. Heck, it's just a trophy league. Girl's night out kinda thing, but serious to my team.

SAVE YOURSELF!!! Work on your own game. Heck! When I got bitten by the pool bug and got on a team in the beginning, I sought out all kinds of material to improve my game and provided it to my (then) teammates.

Would they listen? NO! I even gave them all (13 years ago - that first championship team) a copy of Byrne's book for Christmas at one time. They all wanted to know how I got better, but were too lazy to practice and/or read it.

Now my current teammates want to practice, but nothing methodical like what I do. So I go along with it and take it in stride. They will always try to rewrite the laws of physics on the table and I will always learn a new patience to accept what they do, know that I may know better but they won't understand, and accept this difference and not offer advice when it's not going to be needed and/or accepted. Wow, that last part could be some kind of Pool Player's Prayer!

But the bottom line is, we're a team. We play as a team, we win as a team, and we lose as a team.

So have fun for yourself and remind yourself it isn't always for all the jellybeans in the world!!

The most fun thing we have this year is the piggy bank. Upon Stretch's suggestions, we have a piggy bank for 25 cents on any cue ball scratch, and $1 on a scratched 8 or a wrong pocket 8. It all goes to the limo fund to the banquet at the end of the year.

Barbara~~~contributed 75 cents last week, but we won 10-1 /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif