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View Full Version : Is it worth it?



crawdaddio
11-18-2004, 11:08 PM
To level the city to get at a few hundred (my guesstimation, please give me the actual estimated amount if you know) terrorists? Are these civilians' lives worth less than the bad guys? An honest question. How many women and children are worth one high level insurgent to our military commanders?


[ QUOTE ]
Meanwhile, warplanes continue to strike targets in Fallujah, though the US maintains that most of the city is now under their control. Mortar fire and heavy explosive rounds targeted areas where the US believes resistance fighters are still hiding. Residents have been trying to collect their dead between upsurges in the fighting.

The continuing violence across Iraq and the US assault on Fallujah have made November one of Iraq's bloodiest months. While there is no tally of Iraqi casualties, as many as 1,600 Iraqis, 800 of them civilians were killed in a 10-day period in Fallujah alone. The number of American soldiers killed this month has almost reached 100, making it the second bloodiest month for US troops since the invasion. This comes as forty-seven Iraqi political parties, have announced that they will boycott the planned elections in January saying continued US assaults are an obstacle to political participation and calling the Fallujah offensive a "genocide." <hr /></blockquote>

http://www.democracynow.org/article.pl?sid=04/11/18/1515228


[ QUOTE ]
Earlier this week at a forum in New York, on the New York Times coverage US Foreign policy, Professor Mahmood Mamdani of Columbia University addressed the situation in Fallujah. He is the author of Good Muslim, Bad Muslim: America, the Cold War, and the Roots of Terror. Here is Professor Mahmood Mamdani.

MAHMOOD MAMDANI: For the last week, I have been thinking of the city of Fallujah, and thinking about Fallujah has not been easy while one reads The New York Times. I looked for an article which would tell me something about the history of resistance in the city of Fallujah. I didn't find it in the Times. I found it in The Guardian in London, and the Guardian piece told me that this resistance began with the massacre of April 28, 2003, when parents and children in a school which had been occupied by American soldiers, had started demonstrating, and 18 of them were killed in cold blood, 60 were injured, and began the resistance to the US occupation in Fallujah. Before that, not a bullet had been fired. I then began to look for a story on the history of repression. Again, I didn't find it in the Times, but I found it in The Independent. And The Independent of London informed me that actually the best model, the model suited to the kind of operation that was going on in Fallujah, I had thought it was Jenin, but actually The Independent informed me it wasn’t really Jenin, but it was the town of Hama in Syria, where in 1982, the Muslim Brotherhood had taken over the town and had called on the population to rise up against the government of Asaad. And the government surrounded the town with tanks, weaponry, and simply demolished it. 10,000 civilians died. One of the aftermaths of that operation was the US State Department put the government of Syria on its list of terrorist governments, and the next operation now to evoke Hama is what's going on in Fallujah. I speak about Fallujah also because I think that it is symptomatic of a larger development. And I think that that development is best understood by contrasting our present current times with the situation during the war in Vietnam. I think of western empires, contemporary western empires and the American Empire also, as distinct from empires of old, even distinct from the Soviet Empire in one way, which is that they tend to combine despotism abroad with democracy at home. <hr /></blockquote>

http://www.democracynow.org/article.pl?sid=04/11/18/1515234


Peace
~DC

Gayle in MD
11-19-2004, 05:12 AM
No, it isn't. The question might be, "Is it insanity" Yes, this is insane. My heart breaks for our men and for the Iraqi's.
/ccboard/images/graemlins/frown.gif
Gayle in Md.

crawdaddio
11-19-2004, 03:35 PM
No one else to comment, eh? Where are you Fats?

~DC

SecaucusFats
11-19-2004, 04:04 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote crawdaddio:</font><hr> No one else to comment, eh? Where are you Fats?

~DC <hr /></blockquote>

Oh I'm here alright.

The civilian population was given ample notice of what was coming by radio, by TV and by massive leaflet drops. The vast majority used their brains and got the hell out of Dodge before the party started.

Personally I would have prefered for us, once the civilians who chose to leave had done so, to have dropped some large fuel/air explosive bombs (like oh six MOAB's) to completely rid the town of the Islanimal terrorists.

SF

crawdaddio
11-19-2004, 04:12 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote SecaucusFats:</font><hr> <blockquote><font class="small">Quote crawdaddio:</font><hr> No one else to comment, eh? Where are you Fats?

~DC <hr /></blockquote>

Oh I'm here alright.

The civilian population was given ample notice of what was coming by radio, by TV and by massive leaflet drops. The vast majority used their brains and got the hell out of Dodge before the party started.

Personally I would have prefered for us, once the civilians who chose to leave had done so, to have dropped some large fuel/air explosive bombs (like oh six MOAB's) to completely rid the town of the Islanimal terrorists.

SF <hr /></blockquote>

This is just not true. You need to get some news from outside the U.S. military filter. As many as 50,000 civilians remained in the city. ALL young men were not allowed to leave, civilian or not. Marine snipers were shooting people as they tried to flee the city across the river......etc.

Yes, carpet bombing is always the answer from compassionate individuals such as yourself. On another note, do you call yourself a religious man?

Peace
~DC

crawdaddio
11-19-2004, 04:14 PM
One more thing, you didn't answer the original question, as a fellow human being, is it worth it?

~DC

SecaucusFats
11-19-2004, 04:46 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote crawdaddio:</font><hr> <blockquote><font class="small">Quote SecaucusFats:</font><hr> <blockquote><font class="small">Quote crawdaddio:</font><hr> No one else to comment, eh? Where are you Fats?

~DC <hr /></blockquote>

Oh I'm here alright.

The civilian population was given ample notice of what was coming by radio, by TV and by massive leaflet drops. The vast majority used their brains and got the hell out of Dodge before the party started.

Personally I would have prefered for us, once the civilians who chose to leave had done so, to have dropped some large fuel/air explosive bombs (like oh six MOAB's) to completely rid the town of the Islanimal terrorists.

SF <hr /></blockquote>

This is just not true. You need to get some news from outside the U.S. military filter. As many as 50,000 civilians remained in the city. ALL young men were not allowed to leave, civilian or not. Marine snipers were shooting people as they tried to flee the city across the river......etc.

Yes, carpet bombing is always the answer from compassionate individuals such as yourself.

On another note, do you call yourself a religious man?

Peace
~DC <hr /></blockquote> <font color="blue"> </font color>

Prove it.

As to carpet bombing, it isn't always the best solution. Sometimes a tactical nuke is just the thing to lob when you care enough to send the very best.

I'm an agnostic. Bin Laden, Zarqawi, and the other homicidal Islamo-fascists are religious men. How about you? Are you a religious man?

SF

SecaucusFats
11-19-2004, 05:10 PM
Oh and let me say this about my religious views:

I don’t jump pews, speak in tongues or kiss rattlesnakes on the mouth. I don’t chain myself to the doors of abortion clinics or write long, scripture-laced letters to the editor categorizing the Satanic nature of demon rum, demon weed, demon lottery, demon Victoria’s Secret, demon pool gambling, or even demon new-car smell. I think a tent revival is what you do to your tent when a blizzard blows it over at 7,000 feet. I think a collection plate is the strip of metal where the dust settles in my “Sharper Image” air purifier. I think that just about covers it all.

SF

crawdaddio
11-19-2004, 11:38 PM
[quote crawdaddio:]
As many as 50,000 civilians remained in the city. <hr /></blockquote>

[quote SF:]
Prove it. <hr /></blockquote>


[quote ]http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A35781-2004Nov9.html] (http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A35781-2004Nov9.html)

Rumsfeld said no one knows for sure how many civilians remain in Fallujah. Tens of thousands are reported to have left in recent weeks, and Gen. George W. Casey, the top American commander in Iraq, told reporters Monday that as many as 100,000 civilians may have remained. <hr /></blockquote>

I was a little low in my previous figure.

~DC