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View Full Version : "This is a scratch shot."



recoveryjones
11-28-2004, 03:09 AM
Has anyone ever lined up a shot, then have your head(silently) suggest that,
"this a scratch shot" and then shoot it and scratch anyways.

I just did it tonight hill-hill( for all the cash and table time) after making the 8 ball and trying for shape on the nine to win the match.It was a hard fought (3 hr.)match against (argueably)the strongest A level player in our pool hall.Man did that hurt.I had him beat and gave him an early Christmas present.I played my heart out, all for not.

A fellow pool player told me that every pool player hears those negative voices from time to time.He said that when your head tells you, "This is a scratch shot" you are supposed to say(silently) "yes I know it's a scratch shot , however, I'm not going to scratch."

He said that our subconscious mind faithfully obeys the last command given.When our ANALytical mind says ,"this is a scratch shot", our subconscious mind says, "Do you want a scratch, no problem ...lets do it."

My question is, does the mind really operate that way? Is my friend right with his observations? Is there left brain/right brain stuff involved here?It seems to me I've scratched more than once when sensing a scratch was on.Next time, I'm going to try my friends formula.Tonight's loss really hurt. RJ

stickman
11-28-2004, 05:53 AM
I have no inarguable proof, but I think there is something to the observation. I have a friend, that I've been helping with his game, and he told me that he knew he was going to miss before he shot the shot many times. I told him that when he felt that way, to stand up and look the shot over then wait until he felt comfortable with the shot. Most often, if you feel you're going to miss, you will. This is the same concept. I think that the tension caused by doubt is partly to blame. The muscles in your arm tense up, ever so slightly, when you are tense and makes it more likely to miss, scratch, or what have you. Everyone, as a rule, shoots better when they feel confident and loose. I'm not sure that positive feeling will allow you to make an impossible shot though. For instance, I've felt that I was going to scratch sometimes myself, but rather than trying to will myself into making the shot, I've sometimes taken the option of choosing another shot. /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif I suspect that you're a good enough player that you know what is possible.

JimS
11-28-2004, 08:12 AM
When you hear that "voice" it's time to stop! It's time to raise up, chalk your cue, look things over and make a plan of action that will avoid the problem that the "voice" has noticed. Then go through your preshot routine and win the freakin match. /ccboard/images/graemlins/cool.gif

Sid_Vicious
11-28-2004, 08:23 AM
I absolutely agree, I can sense even the most remote possibility of a scratch in a pressure shot and it truly amazes me that the CB can hit that shot far better than my intended pocket for the OB. What I'd like to discover is a way to utilize this as a positive, you'd think there's some positive value instead of negative to be had from such a thing, afterall you successfully make whitie after 2-3 rails, in an impossiblly located pocket, just by hinting to yourself of the possibility....sid

141and3c
11-28-2004, 09:46 AM
THE INNER GAME OF TENNIS by Timothy Gallwey (rvised 20 yrs later) will help, I guarantee it. It's about $16 at barnes and noble. He tells you to divide your body into Self1 (teller) and Self2 (doer). Example: Self1 tells self2 to: "Keep your stupid wrist firm". Self 2 includes the unconscious mind and nervous system, hears everything, never forgets anything, and is anything but stupid. After hitting the ball firmly once, it knows forever which muscles to contract to do it again. That's its nature. You missed, you bum, he tells self2. By thinking too much and trying too hard, self1 has produced tension and muscle conflict in the body. He is responsible for the error, but he blames the mistake on self2, by condemning and losing his confidence in self2. As a result the stroke grows worse and frustration builds. There is a whole chapter on Quieting self1. Another chapter on Trusting self2. He describes being "in the zone" and mentions quotes from a Zen master. I bought and read it a year ago and am going to read it again often.

This book should be read by everyone in all sports.
Read it and become much more confident and successful!

stickman
11-28-2004, 10:06 AM
I wholeheartedly agree. Stand up and rethink things.

I've also found that what is an impossible shot to one person isn't necessarily impossible for someone else. See the wei table layout: START(
%IZ3D7%Pi6I3%U\3E2%Vh4H9%WD8C7%XY2D7

)END

Depending on the exact object ball position, forward or back a little, it is impossible for me to get enough draw or follow to prevent scratching, and make the illustrated shot. I have a friend that gets so much spin that he is able to shoot shots that would be impossible for me. I can do so much, but he is able to do things beyond my ability. I would have to choose another option.

SPetty
11-28-2004, 11:44 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote recoveryjones:</font><hr>He said that when your head tells you, "This is a scratch shot" you are supposed to say (silently) "yes I know it's a scratch shot, however, I'm not going to scratch."<hr /></blockquote>Tough story, recoveryjones.

What I've read here is that the mind doesn't hear the "not" in your sentence above. It doesn't hear the don't in "Don't scratch". So, based on what I've read here, your friend is correct, except that your silent response should probably be something more like "yes I know it's a scratch shot, however, I will put the cue ball here/"

Rod
11-28-2004, 01:42 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote recoveryjones:</font><hr> Has anyone ever lined up a shot, then have your head(silently) suggest that,
"this a scratch shot" and then shoot it and scratch anyways.

I'd imagine everyone who plays the game has done this. Your suppose learn from your mistakes. However I've seen many that never learn squat, they just keep doing the same thing. It's a recording and the records stuck.

I just did it tonight hill-hill( for all the cash and table time) after making the 8 ball and trying for shape on the nine to win the match.It was a hard fought (3 hr.)match against (argueably)the strongest A level player in our pool hall.Man did that hurt.I had him beat and gave him an early Christmas present.I played my heart out, all for not.

Sure it hurt, thats to bad but it happens. Most likely the pressure of the moment and who you were playing got your brain working overtime.

A fellow pool player told me that every pool player hears those negative voices from time to time.He said that when your head tells you, "This is a scratch shot" you are supposed to say(silently) "yes I know it's a scratch shot , however, I'm not going to scratch."

Whatever

He said that our subconscious mind faithfully obeys the last command given.When our ANALytical mind says ,"this is a scratch shot", our subconscious mind says, "Do you want a scratch, no problem ...lets do it."

[i]Whatever again

My question is, does the mind really operate that way? Is my friend right with his observations? Is there left brain/right brain stuff involved here?

I suppose

It seems to me I've scratched more than once when sensing a scratch was on.Next time, I'm going to try my friends formula.Tonight's loss really hurt. RJ <hr /></blockquote>

Now this last paragraph clenches it. You have done it before, so has everyone though. This happens to be related to a scratch but it could be any shot. I don't know about your friends formula though.

You knew or at least thought there was a strong possibility of a scratch. So, sure as hell you scratched. Kidding your mind into thinking I won't scratch is feeble, your just giving yourself something else to think about when you shoot.

Why don't you address the real issue? Your taking unnecessary risk. Believe me unless your sure, your mind will dwell on that fact. You need confidence to execute and you know when your not confident. Better yet play the shot in a way that avoids a scratch. That may be another route, pocket, english or even a safe! I'll bet right now even a reasonable safe sounds better than what happened. LOL

Rod

stickman
11-28-2004, 05:07 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Rod:</font><hr> Why don't you address the real issue? Your taking unnecessary risk. Believe me unless your sure, your mind will dwell on that fact. You need confidence to execute and you know when your not confident. Better yet play the shot in a way that avoids a scratch. That may be another route, pocket, english or even a safe! I'll bet right now even a reasonable safe sounds better than what happened. LOL [/i]

Rod

<hr /></blockquote>

Rod, When playing a 9ball safe, I think of this shot. It comes up often enough that I've used it to win many games. You have a difficult shot, and give one back. An excellent banker may make the shot but the average player usually just sells out. Can you give examples of others? Just curious.

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%ID4N9%PO3O4%UE9O5%VN3O4%_N2Z6%`C7R1%aD3O4%bM6D1%c D1K6%dC9N1

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Jim

Rod
11-28-2004, 05:51 PM
I can think of several but here is another. START(
%IV6D0%PI7S7%UC8W0%VU8D0%WU6D9%XJ3R7%Yh4[1%ZW4C9%]r9R9%^h9[5
)END

It's one I make depending. The good part is it leaves distance, both balls near or on a rail and a bank. People just aren't going to be in love with this one.

I'm curious though what RJ did. He had a decent shot I assume but just scratched. RJ, wei out the shot please. Sorry not trying to bring up bad memories.

Rod

stickman
11-28-2004, 06:40 PM
I'll have to work on it. Thanks, Rod. The one I frequently use took some time to get the angle and speed right so I could do it fairly consistantly. I will have to do the same with this one.

I would probably try to bank your shot into the corner, but that is before I had another option. /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif

Jim

Gayle in MD
11-28-2004, 08:11 PM
What a bummer! Times like this I wish I knew how to use the wei table. Would shooting with firm top english have avoided the scratch?

Gayle In Md.

DeadStrokeMan
11-28-2004, 08:43 PM
[quote=recoveryjonesHas anyone ever lined up a shot, then have your head(silently) suggest that,
"this a scratch shot" and then shoot it and scratch anyways.<hr /></blockquote>

I'll go one further. I have studied this "phenonmena" for many years. I believe that most scratches are subconsciously INTENTIONAL!

Did you hear me? INTENTIONAL!

I've seen (and done myself) scratches ... that were too perfect to be anything but CALCULATED. In our minds we have two distinct "sweet spots" on the OB that we "know" of. One of them is the "dunk" - the other is a "scratch". When those two sweet spots come together in close locations - I believe we sometimes become confused - we "feel" this and don't know how to respond because the "sweet spots" are so close together. Many many times that scratch shot is a rail and a kiss away, but none the less - our powerful computers calculate this and decision (which we aren't always aware of) becomes confused with the correct location.

I have been working on this in my mind for some now. Many times the scratch will occur on a tough shot when we focus so hard on the OB dump, and are happy with the CB at the other end of the table ... we neglect its possible bank scratch or kiss scratch.

recoveryjones
11-28-2004, 11:16 PM
Thanks Rod, I allways appreciate your most interesting analysis of my screwups...LOL.Because screwup is what I did, plain and simple.My shot wasn't an obvious ill advised attempt at a for sure scratch.This was definitly and offensive go for the juguliar situation and playing saftey wasn't an option. All it was, was a potential scratch and nothing more and my mind told me so before I attempted the shot.The insanity is that I went and scratched anyways.

Even though I scratched in the side, I still had two or more feet of leeway on that particuliar path, however, my speed control wasn't there and no doubt the magnitude of the shot in a very critical moment, coupled with my adrenilin caused me to hit it to hard.It barely fell.

The balls diagramed are only an estimation of where they were on the table, as the exact location, I don't enterily remember...close enough however.I made the shot over and over three times after the fact with a tad of left english as to avoid the scratch on the nine ball side of the side pocket.

Losing like that sucks, however, I gave a strong A level player(some say the next A+) a good match and for that I'm proud.

Time to eat some humble pie and show everyone my screwup.


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%Kt4B9%Lt2B7%Mt5B7%Nu0B5%Ot3B8%PH4Q5
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Terry
11-29-2004, 04:06 AM
Hi RJ, IMO I think the left english was your downfall,from the look of the angle of the shot I think I would have preferred right english and maybe a touch of low ( it's hard to say exactly without standing behind the shot )and take the cb through the center spot of the table and leave myself a longer slight cut shot on the nine rather than a deadon shot on the nine. Terry

recoveryjones
11-29-2004, 07:17 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Terry:</font><hr> Hi RJ, IMO I think the left english was your downfall,from the look of the angle of the shot I think I would have preferred right english and maybe a touch of low ( it's hard to say exactly without standing behind the shot )and take the cb through the center spot of the table and leave myself a longer slight cut shot on the nine rather than a deadon shot on the nine. Terry <hr /></blockquote>

Hi Terry, Left english wasn't my downfall.When I scratched I used straight tops.Later on I tried the same shot (3times)with a tad of left english and got shape every time.Two other good players standing there also said that was the way to go.

My shot illistration on the wei table is only a guess-timit and could be a bit off confusing the matter.RJ

stickman
11-29-2004, 09:15 AM
I agree with your assessment that a little left was the obvious correction. Anyway, that is how I would have played it. On the positive side, I bet that anytime you see this shot again, you won't forget it, and won't scratch. The excitement of the possibility of beating someone that you wouldn't expect to was probably to blame. Otherwise, you might have taken the time to listen to the voice telling you that you were going to scratch, and made a correction. Just like buck fever. You watch your first Big buck coming toward you from a long distance. Slowly, slowly coming into range. By the time it comes into range, you are nervous and just want to get it over with. You don't take the time to excute the shot properly, and you miss. If it was a small doe, you wouldn't miss. /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif

Rod
11-29-2004, 09:22 AM
RJ, we all mess up it's the nature of the beast. Knowing where these shots go without english is good. Then play them no closer than 1/2 diamond away from the side either direction, or preferably a full diamond.

I see this type of stuff happen rather frequent. Not the same shot but the side is in play. Usually just playing near center table works well. I think sometimes the shooter wants or plays to perfect of position on what will be a fairly easy shot.

In this case playing to the target rail (2nd rail) with enough speed to bounce off slightly is a good shot. It gives you c/b direction (place to hit) instead of a place not to hit. LOL It's also a little bit more agressive stroke. At any rate find your direction which I'm sure you will give more thought.

Rod

recoveryjones
11-29-2004, 07:12 PM
Thanks Rod and Stickman,I seen the worried and concerned look on my opponents face. He knew he was dead in the water.I could smell blood, my adrenlin was pumping and I got (too) excited in the moment.

Looking back on it I (I'm A level) gave a very strong A level Player (some say the next A+) all he could handle and for that I feel good.Next time I'll do better.RJ