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jpeters
12-05-2004, 05:31 PM
English as we know is spin off the cushion. What effects are there on the spin on an object ball toward the ball (inside vs outside)and then the effects off that cushion. How exactly will the spin effects on the tangent line change the direction of the ball. My calculations are 1R+2S+.5B/1R and I am shooting a 3 diamond distance. When the cue ball comes off on the tangent to the left but then the cue ball picks forward because my skid zone is behind the object ball. The cue ball goes to the right when it hits the cushion. Is this inside spin and then Running or Reverse?

silverbullet
12-05-2004, 11:11 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote jpeters:</font><hr> English as we know is spin off the cushion. What effects are there on the spin on an object ball toward the ball (inside vs outside)and then the effects off that cushion. How exactly will the spin effects on the tangent line change the direction of the ball. My calculations are 1R+2S+.5B/1R and I am shooting a 3 diamond distance. When the cue ball comes off on the tangent to the left but then the cue ball picks forward because my skid zone is behind the object ball. The cue ball goes to the right when it hits the cushion. Is this inside spin and then Running or Reverse? <hr /></blockquote>

Sorry not much help. Used to analyze all of that. Do not understand your notation at all. I really do not use much spin. I just look at the shot and see where I want the cb to end up.


Maybe my brain is fried but had a real hard time understanding your post so do not even know if I got what you were saying. Maybe if you put it on a wei, it would be easier. LOL

Laura

nhp
12-05-2004, 11:36 PM
I don't really understand the formulas you said, but I think you are asking about what kind of spin do you get on the cueball when it hits an object ball at an angle, and what does running and reverse english do when the cueball strikes the rail? Lets say you cut a ball into the side pocket, the cueball is on the spot, and the OB is in the middle of the table 1 diamond from the side pocket, and you are going to cut it into the left side pocket. If you hit the cueball with center, when it strikes the object ball, the cueball will have right english on it, which is outside english. Basically on any cut shot, with a center ball stroke, the cueball will take outside english. Running english is when the cueball strikes the rail at an angle, and the spin applied to the cueball from striking the rail alone is the same as the spin that is applied to the cueball when it strikes an object ball at an angle. Reverse english is when the cueball strikes a rail, but the english you put on it is the opposite of which will be applied when the cueball strikes a rail. Basically, running english speeds the cueball up slightly, reverse english slows it down. If I confused you, don't worry, because I think I've confused myself now. /ccboard/images/graemlins/laugh.gif

jpeters
12-06-2004, 07:31 AM
I understand what the cue ball does exactly from watching the videos on the slow motion segments with the analysis to each. But I am taking this a step further. I have contacted Tim about this and he explained to me that this information will be on Volume 12 which will be out next year. It is the calculations I have accepted for this shot. I want to know what loss or gain in the speed/distance portion of the calculation I need to adjust for with the inside spin on the cue ball and the running spin on the object ball. One is negative energy and one in positive. Do they cancel out?I have some very good analysis of the situations from Volume 10. The last segment where Tim takes me through a detailed breakdown of the Formulas on each shot of 9 balls. It looks so easy and I understand what to do, but I need to know even more. When I set up a shot I am calculating the A+S+S +/- D and this formula gives me everything I need except I am not sure on the adjustments I make with the Reverse/Running and Inside/Outside. Basically, is there more of an increase in speed/distance off the rail with running or more with outside? Assuming a 1.5R on the object ball and a 1.5R on the rail.

Eric.
12-06-2004, 10:55 AM
For once I agree with Bluewolf.

I dunno if Tim White is doing the ol "dazzle em with brilliance or baffle em with bullsh!t" routine, but I suppose he'll "enlighten" us with the decoded answer (using his decoder ring).


Eric &gt;D R I N K M O R E O V A L T I N E

Rod
12-06-2004, 11:23 AM
I think I need a drink or a joint or both!! lol If anyone teaches this stuff, well that is so it can be understood, they must give a lot of repeat lessons. Now if you also own/operate a mental institution business would be great.

Hell just put em in a jacket for the night, then give em more the next day. /ccboard/images/graemlins/laugh.gif

Rod

Bob_Jewett
12-06-2004, 07:18 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote jpeters:</font><hr> English as we know is spin off the cushion. What effects are there on the spin on an object ball toward the ball (inside vs outside)and then the effects off that cushion. How exactly will the spin effects on the tangent line change the direction of the ball. My calculations are 1R+2S+.5B/1R and I am shooting a 3 diamond distance. When the cue ball comes off on the tangent to the left but then the cue ball picks forward because my skid zone is behind the object ball. The cue ball goes to the right when it hits the cushion. Is this inside spin and then Running or Reverse? <hr /></blockquote>
You've clearly overlooked a major point: When you use reverse, the hypotenuse becomes longer than both legs put together, and the triangle collapses. Once you see this, reform the triangle using the hypotenuse as one of the legs, and everything works. It's really quite simple then.

Good luck.

jpeters
12-06-2004, 10:23 PM
HI Bob,

Yes I understand. I shot that about 5 times tonight with a much clearer understanding of the visual image of the triangle collapsing. Will the distance of the shot change this collapsing based on the speed? The great thing now is that whatever shot I want to shoot I can do it physically with no problem whereas before my mechanics were so far off and it never occured to me. I was concentrating so much on trying to make the ball go somewhere when I wasn't even stroking it correctly. Now, I have the abitlity to execute the shots and see the different results with different formulas. These past few weeks have been an enormous eye opener. I just picked up the new Aramith balls with the red dots. I have been watching the spin on the cue ball off the object ball and the rails and I see the ball doing exactly what I calculated in the mental zone. Bob, Glad you understand. Thanks,