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View Full Version : 314 Shaft - do I need it?



cnw20
12-06-2004, 02:49 PM
I see many online companies offering this shaft as an option on most cues - is it really that good and is it worth getting on a mid-priced stick or is it really an option geared toward expensive cues? Thanks.

Rod
12-06-2004, 03:08 PM
[ QUOTE ]
is it really that good and is it worth getting on a mid-priced stick <hr /></blockquote>

I'll ask, really that good at what? The beauty is in the eye of the beholder.


[ QUOTE ]
is it really an option geared toward expensive cues? <hr /></blockquote>

Nope they'll sell to anyone. Actually if you believe what they claim, it won't make any difference what price cue it's used on.

Rod

dg-in-centralpa
12-06-2004, 06:09 PM
I have a 314. All I will say is find someone who has one and try it out and make your own judgement. It's not for everyone.

DG

Bob_Jewett
12-06-2004, 07:46 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote cnw20:</font><hr> I see many online companies offering this shaft as an option on most cues - is it really that good and is it worth getting on a mid-priced stick or is it really an option geared toward expensive cues? Thanks. <hr /></blockquote>
It hits the ball differently for side-spin shots. If you use side-spin in your game, the 314 may be helpful to you. If you are used to a high-squirt shaft it may take quite an adjustment period. Are you familiar with squirt?

catscradle
12-07-2004, 05:59 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote cnw20:</font><hr> I see many online companies offering this shaft as an option on most cues - is it really that good and is it worth getting on a mid-priced stick or is it really an option geared toward expensive cues? Thanks. <hr /></blockquote>
When I bought my Webb cue, I had been shooting with a McDermott with a Predator shaft. Mike graciously let me try the cue with both his own shaft and a Predator. I liked the Webb shaft better, the hit was more to my liking and I didn't notice a huge difference in deflection (maybe because of my playing style). At any rate, I went with the Predator and would suggest you try the cue your looking at with both a Predator and the stock shaft and see which you prefer. As said earlier, it really is a personal preference.

cnw20
12-07-2004, 08:43 AM
Yes, thanks Bob. Like any other cue, gotta try it before buying.

daviddjmp
12-07-2004, 03:21 PM
I personally think the Predator products are unremarkable. I had a 314 shaft for a Pechauer cue, a total investment of about $600 new. The Pechauer hit way too softly for me, so I then bought a Schon. The Schon with a stock shaft was a much better hit and cost less than the Pechauer/314 combo. I think $200 for a shaft is a large investment, so try to play with one before having one made for your cue. Be sure you like it a lot better than the stock shaft, because as has been noted, it is not for everyone. I play straight pool mostly and the 314 is geared for a player that needs to play a lot of long shots with a high speed and english. The Deflection/Squirt/Swerve issues don't come into my style of play nearly as much as someone who plays a lot of nine-ball. Good Luck!

Brad
12-08-2004, 12:52 PM
Other poster has best advice. "Find someone that has one, and try it."

My own experience? I love mine. I've had it for 4years or so. Two of my buddies bought one at the same time and were not impressed. The only difference in our styles was I have much more stroke than my buddies. They complained that with the stiffer shaft, they got less action on the CB. I even put on a med. hard tip. I get plenty of english, when I need it. What it did for me, was give me the confidence to move my tip out another 1/4 tip, or so, on the CB. I have no comparison to others on the market now. But I love mine.

But, I will say, it does take a bit of getting used to.

Good luck,

Cueless Joey
12-08-2004, 03:08 PM
I don't think anyone "needs" a 314 shaft.
A good cue and a straight stroke maybe.

daviddjmp
12-08-2004, 03:18 PM
I agree totally with CJ on this one-

Bob_Jewett
12-08-2004, 04:33 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote daviddjmp:</font><hr> I agree totally with CJ on this one- <hr /></blockquote>
And I disagree strongly. I'm unwilling to try to play with the floppy, front-heavy pieces of crud that even some very highly regarded cue makers try to sell as fine shafts. But that's probably because the majority of my time on the table has been with shafts that don't squirt much.

daviddjmp
12-08-2004, 05:27 PM
Bob-

I would be curious to know which cues you bought/played with had such terrible shafts and advertised great ones? I have never run into any of these very bad shafts you describe. Of course, you have a lot more hours on the table than I have-

Bob_Jewett
12-09-2004, 10:52 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote daviddjmp:</font><hr>
I would be curious to know which cues you bought/played with had such terrible shafts and advertised great ones? I have never run into any of these very bad shafts you describe. <hr /></blockquote>
Hi David,

I'm pretty sure you have played with such shafts, but if you are used to high-squirt cues, they will seem normal or even excellent to you, because they do what you expect.

SnakebyteXX
12-09-2004, 02:20 PM
I'm thinking of sending off for a couple of 314's as Christmas presents for my two pool playing sons. One of them currently plays with a Meucci Gambler (black dot) that he thinks is too whippy and the other has a Joss 102 with a warped shaft that needs replacing.

I've been playing with a 314 for some time now so I am not unfamiliar with the qualities of the shaft. Personally, I like the way it shoots.

I see on EBay that these shafts are available new from a low of $185 to a high of $200 for the 'Uni-loc' shaft.

I'm sure I can get a 314 with the proper fit at the lower price but something tells me I might be better off going with the Uni-loc because it can be used on other cues as well.

Am I wrong in my assumption about the uni-loc joint? Furthermore is EBay the right place to go for the best deal? If not I'm open to suggestions.


Snake

Perk
12-09-2004, 02:41 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote SnakebyteXX:</font><hr> Furthermore is EBay the right place to go for the best deal? If not I'm open to suggestions.
Snake <hr /></blockquote>

Ebay can be a good place to pick up standard items such as a 314 shaft, or anything that people/dealers buy in bulk. I would recommend looking at any poolhalls/dealers/wholesalers that might be local to you after you know what you would like. You will be surprised to see that you can usually get what you want for about the same, maybe a tad more that on Ebay. This is good for many reasons (IMO).
1. You can see the product sometimes before purchase
2. You will not have to pay shipping
3. You will support your local market, helping keep the doors open for someone in your area.
4. Developing a relationship with a vendor in your area may help you down the road in finding deals on other merchandise, the same items you bought now, or maybe in other ways, such as table time, etc.

Just my .02 cents...I do like ebay also, there are alot of dealers or people that use it as a small business that you can buy from. I will not buy from someone on ebay that has (0) sales or feedback though unless some other information is provided in their listings.

good luck.

buddha162
12-09-2004, 02:45 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote SnakebyteXX:</font><hr> I'm sure I can get a 314 with the proper fit at the lower price but something tells me I might be better off going with the Uni-loc because it can be used on other cues as well.

Am I wrong in my assumption about the uni-loc joint? <hr /></blockquote>

Well, neither the Meucci or Joss has UniLoc pins, so the UniLoc Predator will not fit onto either of those cues. It's not a universal thread or anything like that.

Personally, I don't like the UniLocs at all. I've hit with production models that "upgraded" to Uniloc (Predator, Lucasi) and for some reason I prefer the hit of 5/16-14 in a piloted steel joint on earlier models, every time. Could be in my head, but that's just mo.

-Roger

DavidMorris
12-09-2004, 03:00 PM
There are good sellers on eBay for sure, just be careful and check seller feedback.

Standard joint 314's are going on eBay for $174 + s/h from reputable dealers. The Uniloc and piloted models add about $20 or so. If you prefer to buy from known reputable dealers, Meuller has them for $184 as does BilliardFanatic. CueSight has them for $176 ($192 for uni/piloted).

Maybe I'm misunderstanding you, but the Uni-Loc joint is not universal in the sense that it doesn't fit every cue. IIRC it fits Lucasi, some Joss, McDermott, Predator and a couple others. Each of the Predator joints fits multiple cues, except maybe for the Viking joint model. If your cue doesn't have a uni-lock joint you can't use a uni-loc shaft. You have to buy the shaft that matches the joint type of the cue, you don't have any choices there (other than maybe silver ring or no silver ring). For example your son's Meucci will require the 5/16x18 black joint. Not sure about the Joss, it might take a uni. Or am I misunderstanding your question?

Edit: I started typing this reply then got distracted. By the time I posted there were already a couple of answers. Just so you know I'm not bandwagon posting... /ccboard/images/graemlins/tongue.gif

SnakebyteXX
12-09-2004, 03:02 PM
[ QUOTE ]
It's not a universal thread or anything like that. <hr /></blockquote>

Thanks, I did not know that.

SnakebyteXX
12-09-2004, 03:28 PM
1. You can see the product sometimes before purchase

<font color="blue">That's a plus for sure. </font color>

2. You will not have to pay shipping

<font color="blue">In the case of the EBay 314's the shipping is free. </font color>

3. You will support your local market, helping keep the doors open for someone in your area.

<font color="blue">I'd like to but the main pool hall in my area is run by a cadre of smarmy used car salesman types. Their prices on equipment are out of this world and they seem bent on bending over and putting it to anyone who walks in the door looking to buy.

Bunch of sleazy fricking assholes - no way I'm giving them any of my business. </font color>

4. Developing a relationship with a vendor in your area may help you down the road in finding deals on other merchandise, the same items you bought now, or maybe in other ways, such as table time, etc.

<font color="blue"> See above. The only thing I've learned from those guys was that caveat emptor (let the buyer beware) applys -- in spades.</font color>

PoolFool
12-09-2004, 04:11 PM
To me, the 314 is a very good choice (stress IMO). To me it's the perfect throw-a-away shaft. I believe consistency is important in pool. I've been using mine for over 4 years now. I sand it(2000 grit), take out dings, replace my own tips, and don't worry about warpage or any thing else. If I need to replace it, I go down to Hawley's and buy another with the same feel, hit, taper, etc. If I had to replace mine today , my cost would be about 80 cents a week. Luckily I like the way it plays and can keep the consistency of the same shaft as long I want.

PoolFool

SPetty
12-09-2004, 04:14 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote DavidMorris:</font><hr> If you prefer to buy from known reputable dealers, Meuller has them for $184 as does BilliardFanatic. CueSight has them for $176 ($192 for uni/piloted).<hr /></blockquote> Seybert's (http://www.seyberts.com/), Hawley's (http://www.hawleys.com/)...

PQQLK9
12-09-2004, 04:34 PM
Sounds like a page out of my book.I use one on my Schon and another 3/8-10 that I swap between a McDermott and a Viking. Love that 2000 grit I get at the Auto Parts store.

petel
12-09-2004, 05:00 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote daviddjmp:</font><hr> so I then bought a Schon. The Schon with a stock shaft was a much better hit and cost less than the Pechauer/314 combo. <hr /></blockquote>
I had a Schon and bought a 314 for it. I now have another schon and your right - Schon makes a great shaft - I will not purchase another 314 at least for my Schon. 314's are nice but my Schon plays great.

Sid_Vicious
12-09-2004, 05:04 PM
Here's my take, do you want it? I have a variety of billiard hardware and a 314 shaft is one of them. I personally look at it like, "Do I want one, and if so, I buy one." jm2c...sid~~~enjoys all his cues

Harold Acosta
12-09-2004, 07:33 PM
The product is just hype. Don't fall for it.

DavidMorris
12-09-2004, 09:35 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Harold Acosta:</font><hr> The product is just hype. Don't fall for it. <hr /></blockquote>
I'll have to disagree with you there, Harold. You make it sound like a 314 isn't any different from any other shaft, and that's just not true. Granted, there IS a lot of hype around the product, but it's not necessarily empty hype nor a scam. Sure, a 314 isn't for everybody, no doubt, but it plays quite a bit different than an ordinary shaft.

pooltchr
12-10-2004, 06:12 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote DavidMorris:</font><hr> You make it sound like a 314 isn't any different from any other shaft, and that's just not true. .......but it plays quite a bit different than an ordinary shaft. <hr /></blockquote>

Different....Yes
Better...A matter of personal opinion

DavidMorris
12-10-2004, 06:41 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote pooltchr:</font><hr>Different....Yes
Better...A matter of personal opinion <hr /></blockquote>
Oh, I absolutely agree. That's why I said it wasn't for everyone. I just wanted to emphasise that for anyone who thinks it's no different than an ordinary shaft. /ccboard/images/graemlins/wink.gif

dooziexx
12-10-2004, 09:19 AM
To all looking for predator 314 &amp; Z shafts. I can get them at cheaper prices than those sites that are mentioned on this thread. Drop me an email or pm if interested.

RedHell
12-10-2004, 11:42 AM
Bob,

I'm having problems with that high squirt vs bad shaft quality statement. I hope I got you wrong...

If we explained squirt on the mass of the end of the shaft, are you implying that building a shaft with a high mass at the end makes it a bad shaft ?

The quality of the shaft in my evaluation grid isn't based on the amount of squirt. I tend to look more at the quality of the maple used, or in a laminated shaft, the quality of the lamination (pie or slice). I look at the joint, the fit to the pin the ring work and the ferulle.

Its deflection level is to me simply based on the tapper (if we exclude boring) and the materiel of the ferrule, is it not ?

dmgwalsh
12-10-2004, 12:22 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote SPetty:</font><hr> <blockquote><font class="small">Quote DavidMorris:</font><hr> If you prefer to buy from known reputable dealers, Meuller has them for $184 as does BilliardFanatic. CueSight has them for $176 ($192 for uni/piloted).<hr /></blockquote> Seybert's (http://www.seyberts.com/), Hawley's (http://www.hawleys.com/)... <hr /></blockquote>

You might also check with one of our posters here, dooziexxx whose site is http://www.erikleecues.com/ . I think his price beats everybody. I bought a new Viking from him over a year ago and I know his prices are better than anywhere else.

Dennis Walsh

Bob_Jewett
12-10-2004, 02:54 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote RedHell:</font><hr>I'm having problems with that high squirt vs bad shaft quality statement. I hope I got you wrong...
...
The quality of the shaft in my evaluation grid isn't based on the amount of squirt. I tend to look more at the quality of the maple used, or in a laminated shaft, the quality of the lamination (pie or slice). I look at the joint, the fit to the pin the ring work and the ferulle.

Its deflection level is to me simply based on the tapper (if we exclude boring) and the materiel of the ferrule, is it not ?<hr /></blockquote>
In terms of playing quality, most of the things you value have no effect on the shaft. The wood doesn't have to be perfectly clear, and in fact it is easy to argue that a pure-white shaft will probably hit the ball worse than one that has seriously visible grain.

Many people value Eddie Robin's advice. He feels that he can deal with lots of different things in a cue -- weight, balance, tip -- but the one thing that will keep him from playing well is if the squirt of the stick is different from what he is used to. For him, squirt is the most important characteristic of a stick. It is for me, as well.

I'm used to low-squirt sticks. A $400 shaft with a beautiful ivory ferrule and the clearest maple you've ever seen and perfect, fancy rings is absolutely worthless to me if it squirts the ball north-by-northwest when I'm aiming north. I would much rather play with a house stick that squirts the same as my Balabushka and Predator.

Squirt seems to depend mostly on the mass in the last six inches of the shaft, and seems only weakly dependent on taper, and that's probably because some tapers move mass away from the tip.

cnw20
12-11-2004, 04:42 PM
Thanks. I just bought a used McDermott on EBAY and, much to my surprise, it had a 314 shaft on it. The only marking is a 314, written in the Predator script with a smaller 1 between the 3 and 4, at the base so I think it is authentic. About 3/4 of the shaft is a darker, grayish color than the base. Is this normal for Predator or do I have a knock-off?

PQQLK9
12-11-2004, 04:53 PM
It's normal, the first one that I bought was like that also. The newer ones have the Cat logo.

cnw20
12-11-2004, 06:55 PM
Thanks Nick, it sure feels nice after using the Valley house cues that came with my table. Kinda makes a clicking noise when I strike the CB rather than the "thunk" that I've been used to.

Bob_Jewett
12-13-2004, 10:48 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote cnw20:</font><hr> ... About 3/4 of the shaft is a darker, grayish color than the base. Is this normal for Predator or do I have a knock-off? <hr /></blockquote>
The darker front is from chalk. The base of the shaft usually has a finish while most of the shaft is bare, which feels better in the bridge but does pick up chalk. There are various products to clean the shaft if it bothers you. In the old days, everyone used #600 sandpaper, but that has fallen out of favor.

cnw20
12-13-2004, 11:29 AM
Thanks Bob, if sand paper is not the way to go should I get a product like Q Clean?

daviddjmp
12-13-2004, 11:33 AM
The Mr. Clean Magic Eraser works well on a dirty shaft-

Bob_Jewett
12-13-2004, 12:14 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote cnw20:</font><hr> Thanks Bob, if sand paper is not the way to go should I get a product like Q Clean? <hr /></blockquote>
I ignore the color. If the shaft gets sticky, and I have the time, I'll wash it and quickly dry it, and then rub it with something to smooth down the wood that was raised. If I don't have time to do that, I'll use #600 sandpaper.

Besides Q Clean or the Magic Eraser that David mentioned, others have recommended Soft Scrub and #1200 or #2400 sandpaper (or finishing paper).

buddha162
12-13-2004, 12:48 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Bob_Jewett:</font><hr> the shaft gets sticky, and I have the time, I'll wash it and quickly dry it <hr /></blockquote>

Hi Bob,

What do you mean by "wash"???

-Roger

Bob_Jewett
12-13-2004, 01:13 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote buddha162:</font><hr>What do you mean by "wash"???

-Roger <hr /></blockquote>
With water and a terrycloth towel. Or rubbing alcohol.

One
12-13-2004, 03:38 PM
The problem with 314 is that you can't modify it. Get a Meucci and modify the shaft to make it as thin as needed.