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View Full Version : What makes a Southwest so good?



drawshot
12-07-2004, 12:01 AM
So what is it? The Hit? the Balance? the joint? the taper of the shafts? the inlays? i have heard there is a 8 year wait for these cues, can this be true? Just what makes them sooo special?

Jimmy B
12-07-2004, 01:29 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote drawshot:</font><hr> So what is it? The Hit? the Balance? the joint? the taper of the shafts? the inlays? i have heard there is a 8 year wait for these cues, can this be true? Just what makes them sooo special? <hr /></blockquote>

The cues are well made and in some people's eyes hit great, but the wait has more to do with supply and demand then anything else. If you got a SW today you can e-bay in 3 days and make a nice profit. Not something you can do with many other cues.

JB

Billy
12-07-2004, 02:30 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote drawshot:</font><hr> So what is it? The Hit? the Balance? the joint? the taper of the shafts? the inlays? i have heard there is a 8 year wait for these cues, can this be true? Just what makes them sooo special? <hr /></blockquote>

Jimmy is right on ...

they don't manufacture many cues a year and they are in demand

I don't care for them personally but that's only me

jmo

recoveryjones
12-07-2004, 02:36 AM
Read Inside Pool's (Sept 2004) "Cue Maker's Corner" by Fred Agnir.He explains how perfectly and meticiously these cues are made and cared for.The shafts alone are turned 12 times and the first 7 times they are turned, there is a 30 day wait in between each turning.The butts are turned 6 times and the cue is assembled with a unique dowling technique, using extremley tight tolerance fits.Their specifications are so perfectly intense that some people would think it's overkill.These cues are extremley well made and their designs so populiar that many are trying to copy them. It's an excellent article by Fred.

I believe you can download that Sept 2004 issue of Inside Pool at their website.It well worth reading.Very interesting. RJ

daviddjmp
12-07-2004, 01:01 PM
Same thing with Joel Hercek. He uses full-spliced blanks ( a technique he learned directly from Burton Spain) and his cues are not outrgageously expensive (start at $1800), but there is a six year wait-

Rod
12-07-2004, 03:44 PM
Yep, and I'd be much more inclined to go with Hercek.

Rod

JimS
12-07-2004, 07:28 PM
So Hercek and South West are in the same price range. I'll take a South West.

stroker6626
12-08-2004, 06:02 AM
I bought a Southwest a few years ago, I do not have a serial number on the pin, is that odd or did they make cues in the past that did not have a number on the pin, it was made in 93 before Jerry Franklin died, can someone enlighten me on this? thanks, and how could I authenticate the cue? It plays magnificently!

JimS
12-08-2004, 06:35 AM
They started putting on the cactus and serial numbers in 1993. Prior to that there was no cactus or serial number. If it's a Franklin era South West it's worth a bit more but you would probably need South West's authentication to sell to someone via the internet.

You'd have to send the cue to South West to get authentication.

dooziexx
12-09-2004, 09:05 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote daviddjmp:</font><hr> Same thing with Joel Hercek. He uses full-spliced blanks ( a technique he learned directly from Burton Spain) and his cues are not outrgageously expensive (start at $1800), but there is a six year wait- <hr /></blockquote>

DJ,
The current price for a SouthWest with 6 point and 3 veneers each with A&amp;B rings ($200 option) is $1800. This would be considered a top-of-the line 6 pointer. Hercek's price of $1800 is probably a 4 point, 4veneer cue with no inlays and maybe minimal ringwork. If you ask me, at $1800, southwest gives more 'cue' for the money. Only reason why SouthWest is outrageously more expensive in the secondary market is a demand &amp; supply issue. Lots of demand, low supply. Almost everyone wants a SW. And the 7 year wait for a SW doesnt help the supply problem either.
-Erik

dooziexx
12-09-2004, 09:10 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote JimS:</font><hr> They started putting on the cactus and serial numbers in 1993. Prior to that there was no cactus or serial number. If it's a Franklin era South West it's worth a bit more but you would probably need South West's authentication to sell to someone via the internet.

You'd have to send the cue to South West to get authentication. <hr /></blockquote>

Jim,
Sending the cue to SW for authentication could take a few months. My friend had his done and it took about 3 months before getting it back. Ive been 'educated' on the different things to look for on a pre-date SW. And so far Ive been able to identify them with relative easy.

daviddjmp
12-09-2004, 11:22 AM
Erik-

Great information, thanks. The main reason I would want a Hercek is the construction. I am not sure anyone besides Hercek uses that particular method, but I may be mistaken. My interest would be in getting the most solidly constructed cue possible. I am not sure exactly how the SW cues are built. I know they are solid, as I hit with one once, but I have never hit with a Hercek and would like to sometime. I may have to wait six years, though-

crawdaddio
12-09-2004, 12:03 PM
[ QUOTE ]
My interest would be in getting the most solidly constructed cue possible. <hr /></blockquote>

Check out Zylr. Southern California. VERY solid cues, and only a three year wait /ccboard/images/graemlins/shocked.gif

~DC--------&gt;shamelessly plugs good cues

dooziexx
12-09-2004, 12:40 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote daviddjmp:</font><hr> Erik-

Great information, thanks. The main reason I would want a Hercek is the construction. I am not sure anyone besides Hercek uses that particular method, but I may be mistaken. My interest would be in getting the most solidly constructed cue possible. I am not sure exactly how the SW cues are built. I know they are solid, as I hit with one once, but I have never hit with a Hercek and would like to sometime. I may have to wait six years, though- <hr /></blockquote>

DJ,
Hercek uses the full splice construction that he learned from Burton Spain. I think theres probably 1 more cuemaker that uses the full splice construction method but his name escapes me right now. SouthWest uses a short splice construction. But make no mistake about it. SouthWest makes a hard hitting cue. Ive never played with a Hercek before, but SW is probably in one of the hardest hitting cues out there. The full splice method is suppose to produce a hard hitting cue too but cuemakers that uses the short splice method can achieve the same stiffness by varying the taper of the shaft. Wood combination too places a part in how hard a cue would hit for example ebony forearm cue would generally produce a hard hit as opposed to a birdeye maple forearm because ebony is a much denser wood. This is just some bits and pieces of info I picked up since I started dealing with cues both collecting and selling. Feel free to correct if Im mistaken in any way.
-Erik

daviddjmp
12-09-2004, 01:35 PM
Thanks, guys, great feedback-

Wally_in_Cincy
12-09-2004, 01:53 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote dooziexx:</font><hr>
..I think theres probably 1 more cuemaker that uses the full splice construction method <hr /></blockquote>

Mark Bear?

Wally &lt;~~ just happened to remember him posting at azb

daviddjmp
12-09-2004, 02:49 PM
Wally-

Looks like you are correct:

http://www.bearcues.com/fullsplicecue.htm

buddha162
12-09-2004, 02:59 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote dooziexx:</font><hr>

DJ,
The current price for a SouthWest with 6 point and 3 veneers each with A&amp;B rings ($200 option) is $1800. This would be considered a top-of-the line 6 pointer. Hercek's price of $1800 is probably a 4 point, 4veneer cue with no inlays and maybe minimal ringwork. If you ask me, at $1800, southwest gives more 'cue' for the money. <hr /></blockquote>

Hello Eric, I was just on your site admiring some very nice cues.

Anyway, I think that the quality and method of point construction is relevant here as well. For instance, I know of at least 2 dozen cuemakers if not more who can cut 6 hi-lo points w/veneers and slap some slotted rings at all positions in a cue, but how many others beside Joel Herceck can construct full-spliced, fully veneered blanks? I think only Pete Tascarella and Mark Bear (though I've never seen Bear's work).

SW's do hit a ton, their construction is rock solid and it better be for their level of reputation and demand. Never had the pleasure of hitting with a Herceck, but if I had the same $1800 (and 7 years worth of agonizing patience) I would go with Herceck first.

-Roger

dooziexx
12-10-2004, 08:23 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote buddha162:</font><hr> <blockquote><font class="small">Quote dooziexx:</font><hr>

DJ,
The current price for a SouthWest with 6 point and 3 veneers each with A&amp;B rings ($200 option) is $1800. This would be considered a top-of-the line 6 pointer. Hercek's price of $1800 is probably a 4 point, 4veneer cue with no inlays and maybe minimal ringwork. If you ask me, at $1800, southwest gives more 'cue' for the money. <hr /></blockquote>

Hello Eric, I was just on your site admiring some very nice cues.

Anyway, I think that the quality and method of point construction is relevant here as well. For instance, I know of at least 2 dozen cuemakers if not more who can cut 6 hi-lo points w/veneers and slap some slotted rings at all positions in a cue, but how many others beside Joel Herceck can construct full-spliced, fully veneered blanks? I think only Pete Tascarella and Mark Bear (though I've never seen Bear's work).

SW's do hit a ton, their construction is rock solid and it better be for their level of reputation and demand. Never had the pleasure of hitting with a Herceck, but if I had the same $1800 (and 7 years worth of agonizing patience) I would go with Herceck first.

-Roger <hr /></blockquote>

Hi Roger,
My above post is all based on my opinion. For $1800, with the same wait time of 7 years, I believe you get more bang for the buck with a SouthWest compared to a Hercek. But if I were to spend the cash, I too would go for a Hercek for a few reasons:
1) I would like to try it out
2) I can get SWs anytime
3) You dont see alot of Herceks floating around for sale.

I dont think Tascarella uses the full splice method. If I recalled correctly, Pete bought all of his equipment from Balabushka and I dont think that Balabushka uses full splice. He did buy blanks from Burton Spain but also from Gus Szamboti. I stand to be corrected.

As far as the age old question of full splice vs. short splice, I cannot comment on how a full splice constructed cue hit until I tried one. So far Ive hit with many cues that produce rock solid hit. Ive played with SW, Szamboti, Bender, Omega/dpk, Cokers etc.. and they all have a rock solid hit to them but each has its distinct feel. Maybe in the near future I could get my hands on a Hercek and feel that its not for me. In the end its all based on each individuals personal preference.
-Erik

dmgwalsh
12-10-2004, 12:10 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote buddha162:</font><hr> <blockquote><font class="small">Quote dooziexx:</font><hr>

DJ,
The current price for a SouthWest with 6 point and 3 veneers each with A&amp;B rings ($200 option) is $1800. This would be considered a top-of-the line 6 pointer. Hercek's price of $1800 is probably a 4 point, 4veneer cue with no inlays and maybe minimal ringwork. If you ask me, at $1800, southwest gives more 'cue' for the money. <hr /></blockquote>

Hello Eric, I was just on your site admiring some very nice cues.

-Roger <hr /></blockquote>

If you think they look good, you ought to hit with a few. Erik was kind enough to let me hit with one of his Southwest's Sunday. Very nice hit. I've also looked at a few of his Benders, his Szambotti, Omega/DPK, Ted Harris, and others. I felt like a kid in a candy store. Dennis

dooziexx
12-10-2004, 02:00 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote dmgwalsh:</font><hr> <blockquote><font class="small">Quote buddha162:</font><hr> <blockquote><font class="small">Quote dooziexx:</font><hr>

DJ,
The current price for a SouthWest with 6 point and 3 veneers each with A&amp;B rings ($200 option) is $1800. This would be considered a top-of-the line 6 pointer. Hercek's price of $1800 is probably a 4 point, 4veneer cue with no inlays and maybe minimal ringwork. If you ask me, at $1800, southwest gives more 'cue' for the money. <hr /></blockquote>

Hello Eric, I was just on your site admiring some very nice cues.

-Roger <hr /></blockquote>

If you think they look good, you ought to hit with a few. Erik was kind enough to let me hit with one of his Southwest's Sunday. Very nice hit. I've also looked at a few of his Benders, his Szambotti, Omega/DPK, Ted Harris, and others. I felt like a kid in a candy store. Dennis <hr /></blockquote>
Dennis,
Thanks for the kind words...
-Erik