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05-21-2002, 08:29 AM
I was wondering what everyone's opinion is on the new Predator BK Cue, and on break cues overall. A local player (average skill) just bought one and it seems that his break in 9-ball has been tremendous with that cue.

I myself play with a Bludworth cue and break with a house cue (one-piece Cuetec) and my breaks are average at best. I am a 7 in APA and I consider myself a good, not great player. The question is: Is a custom break cue really worth the price ($100-$300)? Do they really increase your breaks that much, or is it more of a status symbol? Finally, anyone really high on a certain model of Break cue.

05-21-2002, 08:54 AM

05-21-2002, 09:18 AM
I recently purchased a Lucasi cue. I was thinking about maybe later purhasing a Lucasi combination jump/break cue. This way I could always use the shaft as a spare in an emergency. But I wouldn't want to buy one if it isn' a good break cue. Has anyone tried a Lucasi combination jump/break cue? How good is it? Can anyone compare it to a Predator or Sceptre break cue? Who makes the Sceptre break cue and do any of the internet stores sell it?

rackmup
05-21-2002, 10:24 AM
I own a Predator BK and love it (I even bought a second shaft for it.) I crush the rack and it isn't uncommon to pocket two-three balls on the snap.

As for the cue being a "status symbol", well...the women just won't leave me alone now when they see me whip out my big, black, long and hard-stroking "Predator."

Regards (and apologies),

Ken

05-21-2002, 10:33 AM
I'm on a VERY limited income right now, but the money I spent on my Predator BK was unquestionably one of the best investments I've ever made in myself. I don't have a "big break" but with my BK I'm consistently dropping one to five balls with what most would consider a soft break. ( Sorry, I hit 'em as hard as I can!) I would recomend this cue to ANYONE who wants to improve their game without any work whatever.
As for the flat laminates, I don't like them. If you think about the nature of wood, you won't either. A flat laminate actually ENCOURAGES warping, as opposed to the pie splice, which decreases the chances of warpage dramatically. There is no such thing as totally cured lumber, and the thinner it is, the more likely it is to change shape. The glue used to laminate the wafers is not enough to prevent bend occuring. Another problem with the flat laminate is that it does not guarantee radial consistancy, thus necessitating those annoying "dots". Sorry, but my money will always go to a product that I know has been researched to death, and unique to the marketplace. Predators don't jump because they couldn't come up with a design that did something no one else could. They could have released a product that was not unique and sold it on the value of the brand name, but they chose to keep their integrity instead. In our world of the 'quick buck' you've got to respect that. Oh, and the other reason you pay more for this product than others besides the intense research involved is that Allan chooses to pay his crew a wage they can actually live and raise their families on. In my opinion, his is a business model that our country should be emulating. There are many reasons to support this company, these are some of the ones that I do.
Predator. There is no substitute.

05-21-2002, 12:14 PM
I use a predator BK for normal play and ofcource i also break with it.
I think it sounds very weird, its like a plastic sound and it sounds very cheap.
Any comments on this?

rackmup
05-21-2002, 12:21 PM
The wierd sound is probably the super hard tip (or, the specially formulated Kryptonite core in the shaft that allows you to use supernatural breaking forces.)

Regards,

Ken

05-21-2002, 12:21 PM
It is absolutely by far the best breaking cue I have ever used. I don't play with a Predator cue. But I do use the BK for breaking. I was using a Cuetec graphite before that, which breaks great too. But the BK breaks better.

Doctor_D
05-21-2002, 12:27 PM
Good afternoon:

Owning Two (2) Predator BK Break Cues I would highly recommend them.

Dr. D.

MikeM
05-21-2002, 01:44 PM
I don't know about datplayer but I'm sold. I want to order one now. I'm thinking of buying from Seybert's. Anyone have any comments about their service or can anyone recommend anyone else to buy a BK from? Also, a friend told me that Predator's linen wraps are way too slick. He bought a no-wrap model and had someone else put a leather wrap on it? BK users - what kind of wrap do you use and how do you like it?

TIA

MM

rackmup
05-21-2002, 01:53 PM
NO WRAP and check out www.hawleys.com (http://www.hawleys.com) before you buy (ask for Ed or Sharon and tell 'em Ken sent ya!) They guarantee the lowest prices on the web.

Regards,

Ken

MikeM
05-21-2002, 03:13 PM
Ken,

What weight is your BK?

MM

Doctor_D
05-21-2002, 04:00 PM
Good afternoon:

Contact Hawley's Billiards at 800-938-3000, Sharon Hawley, and tell her Dr. D. referred. Good prices, great service.

Dr. D.

05-21-2002, 07:17 PM
Or just call Predator direct. I use the no-wrap and ordered the rubber grip, which makes a big difference. My BK is 20 oz., Dr. D's is 19 oz. and she doesn't use a wrap.

rackmup
05-21-2002, 08:48 PM
19 ounces of pure phenolic-resin-ball-busting-force, second only to the amount of power generated by the space shuttle during takeoff.

Regards,

Ken (breaks at 5.5 on the Richter Scale with his Predator BK)

CarolNYC
05-22-2002, 03:45 AM
Hi there,
Have one-its great-e-mail Karim@predatorcues.com or call 904-448-8748 and speak with Karim-you can tell him Carol from NY suggested you speak to him if you want.The tip is a Le Pro-if it needs replacement, they suggest a medium hardness-if you have the Uni-Loc joint, keep it clean by dipping a Q-tip in alcohol and cleaning inside threads and then with rag you can wipe joint pin down!Just a tip!Good luck!
Carol~definitely loves the Predator B-cue!

rackmup
05-22-2002, 04:55 AM
Carol:

Is the tip on your BK LAMINATED? Mine sure look laminated and they are mushrooming a little (I keep burnishing the edges with my Porper tool.)

I am also considering replacing them with a harder tip (maybe a "rock hard" BUNGEE tip.) Any thoughts on that?

Regards,

Ken

Doctor_D
05-22-2002, 05:06 AM
Good morning Ken:

The Bunjee Tip, in my opinion, would be a disaster on any break cue. Additionally, as I have owned my Two (2) Predators for almost a year now, I have experienced NO mushrooming whatsoever. I would suggest that you check with Predator directly. If you need a direct E-Mail for Predator, send me an E-Mail and I will share the information I have. Additionally, Lorri would also be in a position to assist you with specific Predator questions.

Dr. D.

rackmup
05-22-2002, 05:11 AM
...but you break like a girl. JUST TEASING! JUST TEASING!

Seriously...I do have a very hard break and the tips are getting a little out of shape. It's no big deal. I was just wondering if anyone else had similar experiences.

Dr. D...do the tips on your BK look laminated?

Regards,

Ken (honest Diana...I was just joking!)

Doctor_D
05-22-2002, 05:21 AM
Good morning:

NO, I break like a woman!!!

Additionally; it is not how hard you break the rack, it is what you do with the rack after the break that matters.

Dr. D.

rackmup
05-22-2002, 05:32 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote:</font><hr>...it is what you do with the rack after the break that matters. <hr></blockquote>

Well...I try to pocket the four or five balls remaining on the table after my break. LOL!

Regards,

Ken (would like to go to NYC and hang out with Dr. D and her "gal pals" for a couple of days)

Doctor_D
05-22-2002, 05:56 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote:</font><hr>
Well...I try to pocket the four or five balls remaining on the table after my break. LOL!

Regards,

Ken (would like to go to NYC and hang out with Dr. D and her "gal pals" for a couple of days) <hr></blockquote>

Good morning:

We all know that you have a very vivid imagination, God - she knows that I know, but 4 balls on the break! You are definitely suffering from delusions of grandeur...

Dr. D.

BillPorter
05-22-2002, 06:05 AM
Diana, we all know that you and Ken are ex-wife and ex-husband (respectively). In following the posts between the two of you, I have to say that it appears to me there are still strong feelings on both sides. Have the two of you considered a reconciliation? (OK, here is the politically correct disclaimer: I AM JUST KIDDING!)

CarolNYC
05-22-2002, 06:37 AM
Hey Ken,
How are you? Yes, it did seem laminated, but I sanded the back to assure flatness and that it is smooth,I think the smoother and flatter,the better-as for the bungee tip,that may last longer, but I dont think it'll do the job, but you never know and have a professional do it! Im going to go with a medium Moori myself-whatever you do, dont mess with the ferrule-it wont be warranteed anymore!Use a fine micro-paper (1000 grit) to remove scratches-careful sanding is essential since the wood is soft-predator will replace the ferrule and tip and condition your shaft if need be! If you have the time, speak with Karim or e-mail him-he'll be much more knowledgeable to any question you have-I use a predator shaft for my helmstetter, but am now playing with the Joss-totally different feel!
Oh, by the way, you and Dr. D are like the "Honeymooners" ha ha ha-too funny! Hope I helped!
Stay well!
Carol

CarolNYC
05-22-2002, 06:47 AM
Dr. D,
I am LMAO-"God-SHE knows that I know!" ha ha ha-too funny--mine predator breakcue is 20.oz with wrap-have no problem with wrap-it is slick and looks just like leather-love it! And dropping 4-5 on a 9-ball break is not impossible-been there done that-its MISSING the 9, thats possible,ha ha ha!
Have a great day!
Carol~missed the 9 after BIH on the 8! Huh Rich!ha ha ha-never again!

Kato
05-22-2002, 06:56 AM
I have a Cuetec Break/Jump cue with a phenolic resin tip. The force that the rack is hit with is astounding. I couldn't keep the cue ball on the darn table. I'll end up using that as a jumper and end up buying a Predator BK. I don't believe I'll have wrap on mine either. It will be my early birthday present to myself.

Kato~~~jealous and drooling over others break sticks.

Rich R.
05-22-2002, 06:59 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote: CarolNYC:</font><hr> its MISSING the 9, thats possible,ha ha ha!
Have a great day!
Carol~missed the 9 after BIH on the 8! Huh Rich!ha ha ha-never again! <hr></blockquote>
I'll be standing behind you, ready to slap you in the head the next time. LMAO. Rich R.

CarolNYC
05-22-2002, 07:08 AM
Hi Rich,
Thanks, cause I needed that,but still fear the slap, and pray we wont have to go to the EXTREME of the ELECTRIFIED "DAWG" (dog) collar,ha ha ha ha!
Carol-dawg,dawg,dawg! My love to Cathy!

05-22-2002, 07:22 AM

Elvis
05-22-2002, 09:07 AM
I have been considering a Predator BK for some time now. Currently, I shoot (and break) with a Predator 2K1. The question I have for Predator users is "Do you think I would get a noticably better break with the BK?" I have never had a chance to use one and I don't know of anyone that uses one anywhere close to me...thanks for input

05-22-2002, 07:23 PM
Whitewolf,
No disrespect meant, but hearsay is defined as something heard from another source, or a rumor. I assure you that my opinions are never second hand, but always based on my own personal experiences and knowledge. My father taught me at a very young age to appreciate and understand the nature of wood, both living and lumber. He taught me to garden, and he taught me basic carpentry skills. When I was seven, he bought a 3 acre parcel of property in Hunterdon county, NJ, and proceeded to build a 150' long by 60' wide ranch house with full basement and 2 car oversized garage on it. The foundation and sheetrocking were subbed out, but we built the rest of the house. It was quite an experience for a seven year old, and as I showed more of an aptitude for the work than the rest of the family, Dad lavished attention and wisdom on me during those six months. We've since worked on a number of projects together, including the second story addition to my 100 yr. young Colonial. We no longer sub out sheetrocking, as I've proven quite adept at that too.
The point is, whitewolf, that through carpentry and various other woodworking projects I've undertaken throughout my life, I'm very well acquainted with wood's many nuances. I know what happens to wood when you 'flat layer' it, and I know that if you don't change direction on the layers, you're in a heap of trouble. I also know that flat layering provides literally no resistance if one or more pieces decide they want to bend. And trust me, no matter how old it is, wood always wants to bend.
My preference for the Predator brand is based on a thorough knowledge of the product. I know when I buy a Predator product, it's going to be thoroughly tested, the best of many, many prototypes and months or even years of research and testing, and TOTALLY unique to the marketplace. As if that wasn't enough, I know that if I ever have a problem with my Predator, the company will resolve it to MY satisfaction.
As to the rest of your points:
A front heavy cue is actually a liability on the break. Testing under controlled conditions reveals that a break cue that is back weighted will actually generate more force.
Compressed wood is just that, compressed wood. It has no additional ability to resist warping, in fact, because compression ruins the structure of the wood fibers, it may even be MORE susceptible to warping.
By 'dots' I was referring to the red or black dots Meucci puts on their shafts to help you predict how the cue is going to act. The problem I have with that is that I am simply too lazy to add another step to my pre-shot routine ( i.e. checking to make sure my dot is up) I consider this game hard enough without cuemakers (who are supposed to be on MY side) adding more confusion in.
I am not trying to convert anyone here, and ultimately I think that if you are happy with what you play with, that's the right choice for you. I would never tell anyone they play with poor equipment, other than that guy with the Budweiser cue over there. Hey! You!.........

05-23-2002, 08:27 AM

SPetty
05-23-2002, 10:13 AM
I don't know anything about laminated pool cues.

There are engineered structural wood products LVL - laminated veneer lumber, and "glue lams" or maybe "glu-lams" - glued together laminated lumber.

It's my understanding that these products are stronger than, straighter than and less prone to warpage/movement than dimensional lumber.

<blockquote><font class="small">Quote: whitewolf:</font><hr> I am no carpenter, but there have got to be some glues (like super glue) than when bonded with other materials, makes the new material even stronger. No disrepect inteneded here, and it is nice to here another opinion from another carpenter, but my common sense tells me that this type of fabricated wood will outlast a good maple shaft for ages. This process used is a patented process, and I am sure that there are very few carpenters who have researched this one in particular. This is sort of my continuing underlying beef that I have with carpenter opinions regarding this matter. <hr></blockquote>

05-23-2002, 10:20 AM
a thicker, more rigid shaft does have more power but it also has more squirt and deflection than a thinner shaft. with a thin shaft you get less power for improved control. but for a break stick i would go with a thick-shafted cue with a hard tip and ferrule which will maximize your power, and the larger tip helps minimize application of unintentional sidespin with a slightly imperfect stroke.

05-23-2002, 10:23 AM
Why thank you Whitewolf, that's very sweet. The reason I know so much about this particular subject is that during a recent trip to Florida I was given a tour of the Predator factory. ( Yes, they actually MAKE the product!) The Predator BK was tested extensively, using Iron Willie and a radar gun to measure speed. It seems that the more they moved the weight back, the faster the ball traveled. As we all know, speed is the key to a forceful break. Sometimes our minds can play tricks with reality. If you feel that you get a better break with a foward weighted cue, it may be that your body has become comfortable with it and knows how to perform what you are asking of it. It may be that for you, it's true. Under controlled conditions, however, the back weighted cue has proved more effective. But how many of us play under controlled conditions? LOL By the way, NO cue maker would intentionally compress the wood on a shaft. I believe your friend the carpenter will back me up here when I say that compressing wood weakens it by destroying the weave of the fibers. I believe what you are referring to is the compression of the glue during the lamination process. As for layering making wood stronger and less apt to warp, I have one word. Plywood.
Not trying to be combative here. I would just like to restate that this is my OPINION. If your experience differs, and you're happy, I think that's great. I'm happy for you too.

rackmup
05-23-2002, 11:37 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote:</font><hr>...with a slightly imperfect stroke.<hr></blockquote>

I don't believe ANYONE here has one of these!

Regards,

Ken

05-23-2002, 11:39 AM

rackmup
05-23-2002, 11:42 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote:</font><hr>...and the butt a little bit skinnier (Lorri, could you please work on that?).<hr></blockquote>

Lorri...your butt looks just fine the way it is.

Regards,

Ken

05-23-2002, 11:49 AM
haha, you aren't right man!

Doctor_D
05-23-2002, 12:21 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote: rackmup:</font><hr>

Lorri...your butt looks just fine the way it is.

Regards,

Ken <hr></blockquote>


Good afternoon:

For the record, Lorri is one major babe and an extremely fine piece of eye candy!!!

/ccboard/images/icons/wink.gif

Dr. D.

SPetty
05-23-2002, 12:36 PM
Hi whitewolf,

I've not heard of the Sceptre. Who makes it? Where? Are they on-line? Thanks.

05-24-2002, 09:49 PM
Thank You Ken and D. Let the three way jokes begin!

05-24-2002, 09:56 PM
Actually Wolf, I'm pretty sure that my influence over at Predator is pretty much, well, non-existant! However, if you give them a call and tell them what it is that you want, they will generally try to accomodate you, as long as it doesn't interfere with the design principles of the cue. In example, if you ask them to turn down a shaft to 12.25, they won't, and if you have someone else do it you void your warranty. Why? Because at 12.25, the product no longer works the way it's supposed to. A thinner butt should not be a problem though. I wouldn't mind one of those myself! LOL
By the way, it has been a pleasure exchanging thoughts with you.

05-25-2002, 12:15 AM
I watched my husband break with one the first time the other night, and he sunk 5 balls on the break (8-ball).

Unbelievable. I bought him one last week for his birthday.

I can get them for $300, btw, brand new. Just send an email to any of the accounts on mnbilliards.com if you're interested. (Not trying to solicit, just trying to let you guys know of a great price on a great cue)...

spg