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View Full Version : 25 years ago would you have thought......



Deeman2
12-09-2004, 06:48 AM
That even the tobacco and alcohol companies would still not be sponsoring pool and that prize funds would still be about what you get for finishing 3rd in a demolition derby!

That Micheal Jackson would evolve into a middle aged white guy in trouble with the law!

That we would look back fondly on Dennis Rodman as the quiet days of peace in the NBA!

That a show called Queer Eye for the Straight Guy would not cause a PC war as the gays named it themselves!

That Puff Daddy would still be releasing records from the grave!

That the Democrats would be arguing about losing an election over losing touch with their traditional base!

That our soldiers would ever again be considered the best in many generations!

That Martha Stewart would have a cell mate!

That we would have regular pool on TV (yeah, I know it's mostly repeats, but better than nothing)!

That Arnold would be a Governor and even considered as a presidential candidate!

That we woould have baseball players killing themselves with drugs and the Players Union not wanting to do anything about it!

That Keith Richard would be alive still...and that Princess Diana would be dead!

That blacks appointed to high office would be racially attacked by the Democrats as Uncle Toms and Aunt G's.

That Macy's would give up the Christmas theme that brought them fame in the first place!

That the bulk of a whole religeon would want all of us dead for just being Americans and a large portion of us still want to be politically correct over the issue!

That we still don't have a working health care system and neither party has a clue what to do, really!

That Woody Allen would be a Hollywood outcast and that Micheal Moore would be actively campaining for an Oscar!

That we would have a instant connection to anyone in the world would has a computer and can argue with everyone, anywhere, about anything!

It is a strange world out there....wonder what it will be in 25 more?

Deeman

hondo
12-09-2004, 07:25 AM
When did puff daddy die?

Rich R.
12-09-2004, 07:51 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote hondo:</font><hr> When did puff daddy die? <hr /></blockquote>
He didn't. /ccboard/images/graemlins/confused.gif

Deeman2
12-09-2004, 07:57 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote hondo:</font><hr> When did puff daddy die? <hr /></blockquote>

<font color="blue"> Maybe he didn't. I always get the Rap guys mixed up anyway. I know it was not Snoop Doggy Style as he looks alive enough, and it probably wasn't Mr. T or T Daddy but I do know one of them died and they have been releasing his records ever since. His family even fights the record label on each one. I'll ask Tori when I get home. She keeps up with their passing much better than I. Maybe it was Bo P. Diddely....Did you see the stuff on the shooting of the rock group in Ohio last night? </font color>

Wally_in_Cincy
12-09-2004, 08:31 AM
Tupac Shakur

not that I care...

Wally_in_Cincy
12-09-2004, 08:37 AM
and Notorious BIG

don't care about him either

Deeman2
12-09-2004, 09:17 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Wally_in_Cincy:</font><hr> Tupac Shakur

not that I care... <hr /></blockquote>

<font color="blue"> Thanks-you Walley... I should have known I would be rescued by one of his biggest fans. /ccboard/images/graemlins/smirk.gif

I apoligise to all you Puff Daddy fans for frightening you. He is apparently still alive and doing well ie. has not been shot recently.... </font color>

Deeman
gotta start paying more attention to rapper's names....

Wally_in_Cincy
12-09-2004, 09:20 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Deeman2:</font><hr>
...I apoligise to all you Puff Daddy fans for frightening you. He is apparently still alive and doing well...<hr /></blockquote>

as opposed to "Dimebag"

eg8r
12-09-2004, 10:29 AM
[ QUOTE ]
as opposed to "Dimebag" <hr /></blockquote>
The people in Ohio are crazy. /ccboard/images/graemlins/smile.gif

eg8r

Wally_in_Cincy
12-09-2004, 11:04 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote eg8r:</font><hr> &lt;/font&gt;&lt;blockquote&gt;&lt;font class="small"&gt;Quote:&lt;/font&gt;&lt;hr /&gt;
as opposed to "Dimebag" <hr /></blockquote>
The people in Ohio are crazy. /ccboard/images/graemlins/smile.gif

eg8r <hr /></blockquote>

it's a red state so it's dubya's fault /ccboard/images/graemlins/smile.gif

Deeman2
12-09-2004, 11:25 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Wally_in_Cincy:</font><hr> <blockquote><font class="small">Quote Deeman2:</font><hr>
...I apoligise to all you Puff Daddy fans for frightening you. He is apparently still alive and doing well...<hr /></blockquote>

as opposed to "Dimebag" <hr /></blockquote>

<font color="blue"> Gee Walley,

We are getting old. I never heard of "dimebag" before this morning. Of course, he may not have heard of me either. Now he's gone. I don't think he was a Rapper, however, as Ted Nugent was on Fox saying he was a rock and roll guy. I think Ted is considering going onstage armed now.

Of course you are right. This is Bush's fault as, if we had the gun laws to keep guns out of rock and roll fans hands, this would never have happened as we all know crazed killers obey the law. </font color>

Deeman

hondo
12-09-2004, 12:24 PM
Didn't upset me. I'm still mad at him for dribbeling
all over J. Low.


<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Deeman2:</font><hr> <blockquote><font class="small">Quote Wally_in_Cincy:</font><hr> Tupac Shakur

not that I care... <hr /></blockquote>

<font color="blue"> Thanks-you Walley... I should have known I would be rescued by one of his biggest fans. /ccboard/images/graemlins/smirk.gif

I apoligise to all you Puff Daddy fans for frightening you. He is apparently still alive and doing well ie. has not been shot recently.... </font color>

Deeman
gotta start paying more attention to rapper's names.... <hr /></blockquote>

hondo
12-09-2004, 12:26 PM
That's not what you said after the election, you
liberal flip-flopper.



<blockquote><font class="small">Quote eg8r:</font><hr> &lt;/font&gt;&lt;blockquote&gt;&lt;font class="small"&gt;Quote:&lt;/font&gt;&lt;hr /&gt;
as opposed to "Dimebag" <hr /></blockquote>
The people in Ohio are crazy. /ccboard/images/graemlins/smile.gif

eg8r <hr /></blockquote>

Ross
12-10-2004, 12:51 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Deeman2:</font><hr> That the bulk of a whole religeon would want all of us dead for just being Americans and a large portion of us still want to be politically correct over the issue!

<hr /></blockquote>

(I know this is not a political thread but I had to respond to this.)

Assuming you are referring to Muslims: Do you actually believe nonsense like this, Deeman? Of course in hotbeds like Gaza and the Sunni Triangle, your statement may be correct. But these hotbeds make up a very tiny fraction of the worldwide Muslim population. The vast majority of Muslims around the world just want to get a job, raise a family, have grandkids someday and don't give a damn about Americans. And I'm not into being PC -- I just don't think your blanket assertion that the vast majority of Muslims are essentially demons holds up.

Not to mention the fact that there are several million Muslim-Americans. Do they want themselves dead?

Deeman2
12-10-2004, 01:54 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Ross:</font><hr> <blockquote><font class="small">Quote Deeman2:</font><hr> That the bulk of a whole religeon would want all of us dead for just being Americans and a large portion of us still want to be politically correct over the issue!

<hr /></blockquote>

(I know this is not a political thread but I had to respond to this.)

Assuming you are referring to Muslims: Do you actually believe nonsense like this, Deeman?

<font color="blue"> Yes, do you remember the crowds around the world, including here in America of Muslims who cheered as the towers went down? Do you remember a moral outrage being expressed when this happened by Muslims worldwide? I don't.
</font color>
Of course in hotbeds like Gaza and the Sunni Triangle, your statement may be correct. But these hotbeds make up a very tiny fraction of the worldwide Muslim population.

<font color="blue"> Yeah, right! They cheered in the streets of all major Muslim countries, not just the Sunni Triangle, even in Turkey and they are supposed to be good friends of ours.</font color>

The vast majority of Muslims around the world just want to get a job, raise a family, have grandkids someday and don't give a damn about Americans.

<font color="blue"> This is true in some cases but a primary hatred exists in the Muslim religeon, for Jews, for Christians. It may not be in every community but in most. When heads are being cut off, you don't see any large group of them denouncing this, do you? </font color>

And I'm not into being PC -- I just don't think your blanket assertion that the vast majority of Muslims are essentially demons holds up.

<font color="blue"> I think a large majority of them are either being Islamic PC or do hate us. This may or may not make them demons, but it sure puts a large group of them on the other team. The Palestinians may have some reason to be anti-semitic, but why do the rest of the Muslim world hate the Jews? </font color>

Not to mention the fact that there are several million Muslim-Americans. Do they want themselves dead?

<font color="blue">Many did die in the Trade Center, but they never had a choice. I still did not see the outcry of outrage by even their own Muslim brothers and sisters here after it happened. Please tell me if I missed it.

I don't hate Muslims. I just think they are very busy hating us...a majority of them, worldwide.

Deeman </font color>


<hr /></blockquote>

SecaucusFats
12-10-2004, 04:34 PM
Around the world Muslims are involved in acts of terror against Christians, Jews, Buddhists, Animists, Hindus and others. In Sudan the Muslims are perpetrating genocide on Christians (and also engaging in the slave trade. In Egypt the minority Coptic Christians have been attacked, marginalized, and are under constant threat. In Thailand the Muslims have committed atrocities against the Buddhists. In Russia, Muslim rebels maimed and murdered innocent children. Add to the list of the aforementioned countries where Muslims have committed their heinous acts the following Nigeria, Indonesia, Phillipines, Spain, Holland, and of course Israel and the US. At the heart of all this lies Saudi Arabia, and its virulent Wahhabist ideology. 80% of American Mosques are funded by Saudi Arabia and presided over by hate spewing Wahabbi Imams. Islam has always been spread at the point of a sword, the choice Muslims offer is convert or die. They are murderers, deceivers, wife beaters, genital mutilators, honor-killers,homicide bombers, and snuff film aficionados. Mohammed himself was a pedophile, murderer, and boy buggerer..it's all there in the history if you care to look. It is foolish and dangerous to buy into the whole "religion of peace" nonsense. There peaceful alright until the time is right and then they kill with great joy all the while chanting "Allahu Akbar" (god is great). If push ever comes to shove right here in America, I will not be the least bit hesitant to resist and defend myself, and mine against them with every weapon at my disposal regardless of what nationality the Muslims in question lay claim to.

SF

Gayle in MD
12-11-2004, 10:06 AM
Twenty five years ago I wouldn't have believed that a man like Al Gore would be cheated out of his presidency by partisan officials throwing out tens of thousands of ballots, mostly black votes, His black votes, and then have his win cancelled out by five partisan republican judges and a woman named Katherine Harris after having won the election.

Twenty five years ago I wouldn't have believed that a man could be re-elected after occupying another country, abandoning his environmental responsibilities, promoting the rich, and ignorring the poor.

Twenty five years ago I wouldn't have believed that a nation at war could be dupped by a man named Karl Rove managing to cloud the important issues by corraling religeous fanatics to focus on homophillia and abortion, the subservience of women to men, and the future overturning of rights which women have fought to have for generations.

Twenty five years ago I wouldn't have believed that the American people could re-elect a man who had stolen his first election.

Twenty five years ago I wouldn't have beleived that any president would be dumb enough to abandon the middle east peace effort, in favor of pre-emptive strikes against another country in case they have some of the weapons that we have.

Twnety five years ago I wouldn't have believed that half the children in the world would be without the daily survival needs, and we would have a president who spent one tenth of one percent of our money to do something about it.

Twenty five years ago I wouldn't have believed that a dozen or so men would own most of television and radio, and be able to use thier money and power to own an election.

Twenty five years ago I wouldn't have believed that a woman could bare her breats on national television during the family show of the year and still have a career.

Twenty five years ago I wouldn't have believed that a man like Jerry Falwell could sit on television and say that we sinners here in the US deserved our punishment of three thousand deaths due to terrorists attacks on our turf and not be tarred and feathered and run off the air waves, and further still be afforded a respected platform on national television.

Twenty five years ago I wouldn't have beleived that we could have a president who was owned by big business to the point that he would turn his back on the poor and downtrodden and still be able to convince people that he is a Christian after living a life of privilege, party, drugs sex, and rock and roll.

Twenty five years ago I wouldn't have believed that a president could run away from his duty to serve our country, and then get away with sending our men to an unecessary war without even so much as enough socks to go around, and still be in the white house.

Twenty five years ago I wouldn't have believed that a president who was never elected in the first place, could then get re-elected by lieing bald faced in front of the television camera while talking about family values.

Twenty five years ago I wouldn't have beleived that our country still wouldn't have a reasonable policy on the environment and on the effects of fossil fuel.

Twenty five years ago I wouldn't have believed that a president could spend our surplus, devalue the American dollar, put us deep into debt, destroy our world image, aleinate our friends, suck up to the rich and powerful, thumb his nose at our constitutional spirit, fail at diplomacy, and then have the gall to about spending his mandate....Twenty five years ago I wouldn't have believed that I would be living in a country where so many could be fooled by so few, and that a statement of the facts would cause the kind of back lash which I expect from this post, lol.

Gayle in Md.

PQQLK9
12-11-2004, 10:12 AM
tap tap tap

pooltchr
12-11-2004, 10:39 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Gayle in MD:</font><hr> Twenty five years ago I wouldn't have believed that a man like Al Gore would be cheated out of his presidency by partisan officials throwing out tens of thousands of ballots, mostly black votes, His black votes, and then have his win cancelled out by five partisan republican judges and a woman named Katherine Harris after having won the election.

Twenty five years ago I wouldn't have believed that the American people could re-elect a man who had stolen his first election.


Twenty five years ago I wouldn't have believed that a president who was never elected in the first place, could then get re-elected by lieing bald faced in front of the television camera while talking about family values.

Gayle in Md.
<hr /></blockquote>

If the Dems had stopped and tried to figure out why they are out of touch with the majority, rather than spending 4 years crying that their candidate was robbed, they might have been in a better position for the 2004 election.

Gayle....it was FOUR YEARS AGO!!! GET OVER IT!!!
All the energy you waste crying about 2000 could be better spent doing something about the issues you seem to feel so strongly about. Try channeling some of that hatred you have toward out president toward something more positive. It's better for your mental health.
Steve

ceebee
12-11-2004, 11:14 AM
Gayle, thanks for stepping up to voice these unjust situations.

There are those that will ask you to "get over it". I hope you and 300 million citizens of the USA never get over it.

The politicians of this country are thieves and liars. They purport to doing a good job for their fellow Americans, while they are stealing America's wealth right under our nose. With a defict budget reaching trillions of dollars, can you see anything around you that would give witness of money being spent worthwhile?

The highway system of this country is in need of repair. Where did the maintenance budget monies for these roads go?

The government says the education system is in trouble, I say the liberalization of society is to blame, not the system, because there are miilions of students that have passed through those portals very successfully.

Our Congress never fails to give itself a raise in the midst of troubled times and the citizens of the USA let it pass. Everything they eat, drink &amp; do, while they are in Congress and possibly after, is PAID FOR. What do they need the extra money for? To satisfy their greed.

I'm 62 &amp; I have seen the "good times" &amp; yes, they really are "over for good". My consolation is my memories of a Great America.

That great society is on the way down. Our borders are open, justice has been liberalized and our economy has been globalized. These actions have left many Americans unemployed and homeles, while the "gents on Mahoghany Row get rich". Wall steet is the big clearing house where millions of unwary investors are fleeced out of trillions of hard earned dollars.

Get Over IT, you say... that's an impossibilty for me. I can't accept injustice to me or my fellow citizens. BUT, I won't have to tolerate the unjust, insane direction America is moving toward, led by YOU KNOW WHO... my days are numbered. You folks that are 25 will see &amp; experience the days of severe destruction of family, worker and human values as time goes on. Good Luck...

Ross
12-11-2004, 12:10 PM
Obviously politically I'm a lot closer to Gayle than Steve, but here I agree with Steve. First, I don't think Bush "stole" the 2000 election - he won it, albeit in a messy fashion.

Because of our electoral system (which were the agreed upon rules on the nation coming into the election) the vote came down to Florida. And there the difference in the number of votes for Bush and Gore (likely a coupe of hundred out of millions) was too small to detect reliably with the poorly designed voting system they used. Thousands of votes were ambiguous due to hanging chads, stray marks, voting machine malfunctions, etc. If this were a scientific study we would have decided there was no significant difference in the two candidates votes. So for all intents and purposes Florida --amazingly-- was a tie.

At that point the only recourse was for both parties to fight in the courts to get every possible ruling they could in their favor to help their candidates final count. And when this process was exhausted one candidate would be ahead a few votes and that would be that. This happened and the Supreme Court made a final decision to stop the count that made Bush the winner.

Was the Court decision the right one? That is debateable. Was it partisan? Yes, probably. But courts make partisan decisions all the time (especially on the conservative-liberal continuum) when the precedent and law are ambiguous and judgement and interpretations have to be made. Would Gore have won if they made a decision to continue the recounting? That is uncertain as well.
Most importantly there was no evidence of bribery, widespread fraud, etc. like in the Ukraine (now THAT is stealing an election). Nor was the court's decision unconstitutional or outside the bounds of reason.

So, in my mind at least, in the 2000 election the "flawed-but-the-best-we-have" legal process ran its course and a winner was declared. I didn't like the result, but that's life. End of story, at least for me. I long ago moved on.

SnakebyteXX
12-11-2004, 01:10 PM
Twenty five years ago I wouldn't have believed that a man like Al Gore would be cheated out of his presidency by partisan officials throwing out tens of thousands of ballots, mostly black votes, His black votes, and then have his win cancelled out by five partisan republican judges and a woman named Katherine Harris after having won the election.

<font color="blue">Twenty five years ago I would not have believed that we would ever have an election that was so incredibly close that it proved once and for all how important it is for everyone of us to vote. </font color>

Twenty five years ago I wouldn't have believed that a nation at war could be dupped by a man named Karl Rove managing to cloud the important issues by corraling religeous fanatics to focus on homophillia and abortion, the subservience of women to men, and the future overturning of rights which women have fought to have for generations.

<font color="blue">Twenty five years ago I would not have believed that so many women in this country would come to rely on abortion as a convenient means of birth control. </font color>

Twnety five years ago I wouldn't have believed that half the children in the world would be without the daily survival needs, and we would have a president who spent one tenth of one percent of our money to do something about it.

<font color="blue">Twenty five years ago I wouldn't have believed that there are still children in this country who go without their daily survival needs being met. I find it hard to believe that their needs do not take absolute precedence over the 'other children' of the world. Let's fix what's broke with our own kids before we start worrying about everyone else's.</font color>

Twenty five years ago I wouldn't have believed that a dozen or so men would own most of television and radio, and be able to use thier money and power to own an election.

<font color="blue">Read up on your history, Gayle. You'll find that good citizens like Randolph Hurst using his newspaper empire and 'yellow journalism' were responsible for starting the Spanish American War. Money and power combined with access to the press can influence a lot of things. This kind of thing has been going on in our country for ever. I doubt that another twenty five years (or fifty for that matter) is going to change that. </font color>

Twenty five years ago I wouldn't have believed that a woman could bare her breats on national television during the family show of the year and still have a career.

<font color="blue">Twenty five years ago I wouldn't have believed that this nation would still be so prudish that viewing something as natural as a woman's bare breast would still be less acceptible than watching grown men trying to beat each others brains out in a modern day gladiator sport. </font color>

Twenty five years ago I wouldn't have beleived that we could have a president who was owned by big business to the point that he would turn his back on the poor and downtrodden and still be able to convince people that he is a Christian after living a life of privilege, party, drugs sex, and rock and roll.

<font color="blue">I believe the concept involves being forgiven for your past sins. </font color>

Twenty five years ago I wouldn't have believed that a president could run away from his duty to serve our country, and then get away with sending our men to an unecessary war without even so much as enough socks to go around, and still be in the white house.

<font color="blue">Enough socks or who went versus who stayed home are basically irrelevent. IMO: America hasn't been involved in a 'necessary war' since the end of World War II.</font color>

Twenty five years ago I wouldn't have believed that a president who was never elected in the first place, could then get re-elected by lieing bald faced in front of the television camera while talking about family values.

<font color="blue">Time to wake up and smell the coffee Gayle, all politicians lie. Democrat or Republican, true or not, they say what they believe the people want to hear in order to get elected. 'Family Values' is just another well known hot button. Kerry did his level best to push it - Bush out did him. </font color>


Twenty five years ago I wouldn't have beleived that our country still wouldn't have a reasonable policy on the environment and on the effects of fossil fuel.

<font color="blue">Sure looks like short term prosperity for the few still trumps long term quality of life for the many. As long as short term profits remain the primary goal of big business, I do not see this situation changing any time soon. </font color>

Ross
12-11-2004, 01:26 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Deeman2:</font><hr> <blockquote><font class="small">Quote Ross:</font><hr> <blockquote><font class="small">Quote Deeman2:</font><hr> That the bulk of a whole religeon would want all of us dead for just being Americans and a large portion of us still want to be politically correct over the issue!

<hr /></blockquote>

(I know this is not a political thread but I had to respond to this.)

Assuming you are referring to Muslims: Do you actually believe nonsense like this, Deeman?

<font color="blue"> Yes, do you remember the crowds around the world, including here in America of Muslims who cheered as the towers went down? Do you remember a moral outrage being expressed when this happened by Muslims worldwide? I don't.
</font color>
<font color="brown">First, the media reports action, not non-action. So the more radical Muslims who went out into the streets and made a ruckus will ended up in front of the camera. Remember there are about 1.3 billion Muslims in the world, probably 1.29 billion of which did NOT go out in the streets and cheer. The news was not going to show clips of these people sitting in their homes "not cheering".

Second, not expressing moral outrage is not the same as wanting everyone dead. For example most conservatives in the US did not express moral outrage at the sexual abuse and murder of prisoners at Abu Graib. That doesn't make the conservatives monsters, it just means that they were conflicted enough in their anger at what some of the Iraqi's were doing to our men that they just couldn't sum up the "moral outrage" to worry about a few of theirs. Similarly, a lot of Muslim countries have a history of problems with the US and Israel which they see as bullying them around and taking whatever they want just because they have the might or money to do so (a not entirely illigitimate view) so their popluations also have conflicted feelings toward us. That is not the same as saying they all want all Americans dead. In fact, until the Iraq war, polls showed that most mid-easterners (that is Muslims) liked American citizens, just not its government leaders or their policies.</font color>

Of course in hotbeds like Gaza and the Sunni Triangle, your statement may be correct. But these hotbeds make up a very tiny fraction of the worldwide Muslim population.

<font color="blue"> Yeah, right! They cheered in the streets of all major Muslim countries, not just the Sunni Triangle, even in Turkey and they are supposed to be good friends of ours.</font color>
<font color="brown">Again, you are seeing the more radical group on TV. I admit it was disgusting and barbaric. But I'm guessing the vast majority of Turkey's muslim population was NOT outside cheering the fall of the WTC's.
And just for the record there was also footage of candlelight vigils for the WTC victims held by thousands in the streets of Iran, and moments of silence and remembrance in Palestinian schools. </font color>
The vast majority of Muslims around the world just want to get a job, raise a family, have grandkids someday and don't give a damn about Americans.

<font color="blue"> This is true in some cases but a primary hatred exists in the Muslim religeon, for Jews, for Christians. It may not be in every community but in most. When heads are being cut off, you don't see any large group of them denouncing this, do you? </font color>

<font color="brown">Actually most of the Muslim leaders have condemned and denounced these atrocities. Of course the most radical clerics have not, because they do hate America. But they are a small percentage of Muslim clerics around the world. </font color>

And I'm not into being PC -- I just don't think your blanket assertion that the vast majority of Muslims are essentially demons holds up.

<font color="blue"> I think a large majority of them are either being Islamic PC or do hate us. This may or may not make them demons, but it sure puts a large group of them on the other team. The Palestinians may have some reason to be anti-semitic, but why do the rest of the Muslim world hate the Jews? </font color>
<font color="brown">That question is like "when did you stop beating your wife?" I don't have any evidence that the "rest of the Muslim world hates the Jews." Do the vast majority of the 200 million MAINSTREAM Muslims in Indonesia spend a lot of time thinking about the Jews? </font color>
Not to mention the fact that there are several million Muslim-Americans. Do they want themselves dead?

<font color="blue">Many did die in the Trade Center, but they never had a choice. I still did not see the outcry of outrage by even their own Muslim brothers and sisters here after it happened. Please tell me if I missed it.

I don't hate Muslims. I just think they are very busy hating us...a majority of them, worldwide.

Deeman </font color>

<font color="brown">I can see how you would have that perception given the way news covers stories. The sensational footage gets on the airwaves, the non-exciting mainstream doesn't. You know how people have complained that you only see the bad in Iraq (bodies, burned out cars, etc.) but never see the good everyday things going on? Well it is the same for this issue. For example Americans live side-by-side with Muslims in Saudi Arabia, in Indonesia, in Turkey, and so on. They socialize together and even play pool together. You don't see video footage of that, do you? Obviously you should condemn the disgusting displays we see put on by the radicalized Muslims. Their anger and call for violence and misuse of their own religion is disgusting. I'm just saying it would be a mistake if you judge the whole Muslim world by the actions of the religious fanatics that hit the airwaves.</font color>


<hr /></blockquote> <hr /></blockquote>

Gayle in MD
12-11-2004, 08:03 PM
Hi Ross,
And yes, we don't agree on this friend. Tens of thousands of votes were thrown out by partisan "Chad" judges, if you will. If Katherine Harris hadn't stepped in for the Bushes preventing the counting of ALL the votes, Al Gore would have won.

There were several books written at that time about the unconstitutionality of that election, and using pretty sophisticated statistics, and they all reflect a Gore win.

None other than Jimmy Carter, probably one of the most honest men of our times, also believes that Al Gore was the true winner of the 2000 election.

Gayle in Md.
Hope I never forget it or get over it...

Gayle in MD
12-11-2004, 08:12 PM
My mental health is fine my friend, and whatever do you know of how I spend my time as regards my own political contributions of sorts. Crying? Hatred? Apparently you project those emotional labels on those who see things differently than you. Maybe you need counseling?

Hope I never forget or get over the stealing of the 2000 election, and the world will long remember the devastating consequences of the days of George Bush's presidency when all is said and done....stick around my man, you ain't seen nothin' yet!

Gayle in Md.

Gayle in MD
12-11-2004, 08:40 PM
I agree it is important for all to vote.

"So many women rely on Birth Control?" I can't believe there are so many sexually active men who are too cowardly to go and get a simple little one inch cut so that there wouldn't be a need for ANY birth control. I can't bel;ieve that the male species has always found it so easy to walk away from thier own flesh and blood and never look back. I can't believe that all the men who are so against birth control, early abortion, or other, are walking around still sporting thier Vas Tubes, and sprinkling thier fertilizer to so many at one time. I woman can only make one baby every nine months, how many can one man make? Personally, I am for mandatory vasectomy for confirmed bachelors in particular, and all others who have "finished" thier families, LOL.

Let's fix what wrong with our own kids? No children should be starving in a world where farmers are paid not to grow food?????????????

You read up on your history sir, there has never been a time, never ever, when a dozen or so men have wielded such power and corruption in our country.

There was nothing natural or healthy about what Janet Jackson did on that program. It was absolutely disgusting, but not as disgusting as watching the two of them dry FK on the stage to music for fifteen minutes before the display of flesh. Football was the only sport we expected to watch with our children and grandchildren during that program, not sexual exhibitionism.

As long as we have a nation of ho hummers, whose answer for every injustice is "Oh so what, it's always been this way," when there is corruption and deciet, and a total rape of our monatory system from within, you are right, things will never improve. Now that the privileged few in power have learned how to take advantage of the Attention Deficit Disordered long enough to remain in power for a second term in spite of a miserable performance with devastating conquences, I don't see it changing either, unless we refuse to let the truth of what is happening die out.
Gayle in Md.

Deeman2
12-13-2004, 07:10 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Ross:</font><hr>

<font color="brown">Actually most of the Muslim leaders have condemned and denounced these atrocities. Of course the most radical clerics have not, because they do hate America. But they are a small percentage of Muslim clerics around the world. </font color>

<font color="blue"> Ross,

Respectfully, I think you vastly underestimate the hatred the Muslim world has shown toward us and overestimate the amount of Muslims that have denounced these atrocities. Again, I don't hate the Muslims. I just know they have, in a large and growing number, called for our destruction on a unilateral front and it is not just the radical factions that have done so.

I don't advocate that we do anything except defend ourselves rigorously. I don't want to attact the Muslim world in general, just the ones who are trying to do us and our closest allies harm. To do otherwise would be racism.

Deeman </font color>


<hr /></blockquote> <hr /></blockquote> <hr /></blockquote>

Deeman2
12-13-2004, 07:12 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Gayle in MD:</font><hr> Personally, I am for mandatory vasectomy for confirmed bachelors in particular, and all others who have "finished" thier families, LOL. Gayle in Md. <hr /></blockquote>

<font color="blue"> Comrade Gayle,

You are one sick puppy.

Deeman</font color>

hondo
12-13-2004, 07:41 AM
Tap! Tap! TaP! I hope we don't get over it either.


<blockquote><font class="small">Quote ceebee:</font><hr> Gayle, thanks for stepping up to voice these unjust situations.

There are those that will ask you to "get over it". I hope you and 300 million citizens of the USA never get over it.

The politicians of this country are thieves and liars. They purport to doing a good job for their fellow Americans, while they are stealing America's wealth right under our nose. With a defict budget reaching trillions of dollars, can you see anything around you that would give witness of money being spent worthwhile?

The highway system of this country is in need of repair. Where did the maintenance budget monies for these roads go?

The government says the education system is in trouble, I say the liberalization of society is to blame, not the system, because there are miilions of students that have passed through those portals very successfully.

Our Congress never fails to give itself a raise in the midst of troubled times and the citizens of the USA let it pass. Everything they eat, drink &amp; do, while they are in Congress and possibly after, is PAID FOR. What do they need the extra money for? To satisfy their greed.

I'm 62 &amp; I have seen the "good times" &amp; yes, they really are "over for good". My consolation is my memories of a Great America.

That great society is on the way down. Our borders are open, justice has been liberalized and our economy has been globalized. These actions have left many Americans unemployed and homeles, while the "gents on Mahoghany Row get rich". Wall steet is the big clearing house where millions of unwary investors are fleeced out of trillions of hard earned dollars.

Get Over IT, you say... that's an impossibilty for me. I can't accept injustice to me or my fellow citizens. BUT, I won't have to tolerate the unjust, insane direction America is moving toward, led by YOU KNOW WHO... my days are numbered. You folks that are 25 will see &amp; experience the days of severe destruction of family, worker and human values as time goes on. Good Luck... <hr /></blockquote>

hondo
12-13-2004, 07:43 AM
Narrow minded people. Narrow minded ideas.


<blockquote><font class="small">Quote SecaucusFats:</font><hr> Around the world Muslims are involved in acts of terror against Christians, Jews, Buddhists, Animists, Hindus and others. In Sudan the Muslims are perpetrating genocide on Christians (and also engaging in the slave trade. In Egypt the minority Coptic Christians have been attacked, marginalized, and are under constant threat. In Thailand the Muslims have committed atrocities against the Buddhists. In Russia, Muslim rebels maimed and murdered innocent children. Add to the list of the aforementioned countries where Muslims have committed their heinous acts the following Nigeria, Indonesia, Phillipines, Spain, Holland, and of course Israel and the US. At the heart of all this lies Saudi Arabia, and its virulent Wahhabist ideology. 80% of American Mosques are funded by Saudi Arabia and presided over by hate spewing Wahabbi Imams. Islam has always been spread at the point of a sword, the choice Muslims offer is convert or die. They are murderers, deceivers, wife beaters, genital mutilators, honor-killers,homicide bombers, and snuff film aficionados. Mohammed himself was a pedophile, murderer, and boy buggerer..it's all there in the history if you care to look. It is foolish and dangerous to buy into the whole "religion of peace" nonsense. There peaceful alright until the time is right and then they kill with great joy all the while chanting "Allahu Akbar" (god is great). If push ever comes to shove right here in America, I will not be the least bit hesitant to resist and defend myself, and mine against them with every weapon at my disposal regardless of what nationality the Muslims in question lay claim to.

SF <hr /></blockquote>

Gayle in MD
12-13-2004, 08:29 AM
Oh really,
Generally speaking, most folks realize when a person follows a sentence with the letters "LOL" that they are joking.

Please refrain from referring to me as comrad.

What is your solution for all the run away fathers in this country? Have you ever read the statistics regarding the reasons that women consider abortion in the first place.

Personally, I think that when you have a government that is swiftly moving toward overturning Roe V. Wade, and their only solution for our young people growing up in a sex crazed society is abstinence, and then you look at the statistics regarding run away fathers, and how many women are raising their children alone, trying to put food on the table, working everyday, cooking, cleaning, laundry, homework. GIVE ME A BREAK! As far as I am concerned, no MAN has any right to have an opinion about abortion.

Financially, this country would actually be better off promoting vasectomies for young unmarried men. They are reversable you know. And just look at how many men you know yourself who are married, unfaithful, and then the mistress gets pregnant. Those guys are definately for abortion then I assure you. Or they are in high school and their girlfriend who has been pressured to give them what they want, and then she gets pregnant, yeah, I assure you abortion is the first word on their lips. I am sick and tired of hearing women put down over this whole abortion issue. It takes two to tango you know. The vast majority of young unmarried women who opt to keep their babies, raise them alone because they can't afford the paternity tests required to bring the fathers to the table. We are living in a time when half the children in this country are being raised with no father in the home.

The trouble with this country is that all the idealism and religeon in the world doesn't change the facts of human nature. Idealism untempered by practicality is folley as far as I am concerned. Go read some statistics and then we can communicate.

Gayle in Md.

Wally_in_Cincy
12-13-2004, 08:38 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote hondo:</font><hr> Tap! Tap! TaP! I hope we don't get over it either.<hr /></blockquote>

What do you have to gain by that?

The Republicans got over the 1960 election just fine.

Deeman2
12-13-2004, 08:39 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote hondo:</font><hr> Narrow minded people. Narrow minded ideas.

<font color="blue"> Hondo,

Well, What has SF said that is not true? How do we dress it up so it is not as offensive? How do we keep it "enlightened"? How do we stay PC on this?

Deeman </font color>


<blockquote><font class="small">Quote SecaucusFats:</font><hr> Around the world Muslims are involved in acts of terror against Christians, Jews, Buddhists, Animists, Hindus and others. In Sudan the Muslims are perpetrating genocide on Christians (and also engaging in the slave trade. In Egypt the minority Coptic Christians have been attacked, marginalized, and are under constant threat. In Thailand the Muslims have committed atrocities against the Buddhists. In Russia, Muslim rebels maimed and murdered innocent children. Add to the list of the aforementioned countries where Muslims have committed their heinous acts the following Nigeria, Indonesia, Phillipines, Spain, Holland, and of course Israel and the US. At the heart of all this lies Saudi Arabia, and its virulent Wahhabist ideology. 80% of American Mosques are funded by Saudi Arabia and presided over by hate spewing Wahabbi Imams. Islam has always been spread at the point of a sword, the choice Muslims offer is convert or die. They are murderers, deceivers, wife beaters, genital mutilators, honor-killers,homicide bombers, and snuff film aficionados. Mohammed himself was a pedophile, murderer, and boy buggerer..it's all there in the history if you care to look. It is foolish and dangerous to buy into the whole "religion of peace" nonsense. There peaceful alright until the time is right and then they kill with great joy all the while chanting "Allahu Akbar" (god is great). If push ever comes to shove right here in America, I will not be the least bit hesitant to resist and defend myself, and mine against them with every weapon at my disposal regardless of what nationality the Muslims in question lay claim to.

SF <hr /></blockquote> <hr /></blockquote>

Wally_in_Cincy
12-13-2004, 08:40 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Deeman2:</font><hr>... I think you vastly underestimate the hatred the Muslim world has shown toward us and overestimate the amount of Muslims that have denounced these atrocities. ...<hr /></blockquote>

The most popular man in the Arab world is OBL

I don't recall hearing any denouncements of terrorism by the Muslim clergy, even here in the states

Wally_in_Cincy
12-13-2004, 08:42 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Gayle in MD:</font><hr>

...As far as I am concerned, no MAN has any right to have an opinion about abortion. ....
<hr /></blockquote>

I have a right to have an opinion about anything.

Deeman2
12-13-2004, 09:13 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Gayle in MD:</font><hr> Oh really,
Generally speaking, most folks realize when a person follows a sentence with the letters "LOL" that they are joking.

Please refrain from referring to me as comrad. <font color="blue"> Comrad, Comrad, Comrad </font color>

What is your solution for all the run away fathers in this country?

<font color="blue"> It is not to convict those who may or may not do this in the future. It probably should be to prosecute the hell out of offenders, not punish the ones who might offend in the future. I wouldn't call for sterilization of young women simply because they might get into a foolish relationship and get pregnant. That would be as stupid as women being mutilated by Muslims. (if they did that sort of thing!)PC alert! </font color>

Have you ever read the statistics regarding the reasons that women consider abortion in the first place.

<font color="blue"> No, I didn't know they kept these. </font color>

Personally, I think that when you have a government that is swiftly moving toward overturning Roe V. Wade, <font color="blue"> You are wrong. </font color> and their only solution for our young people growing up in a sex crazed society is abstinence, and then you look at the statistics regarding run away fathers, and how many women are raising their children alone, <font color="blue"> Too, too many. </font color> trying to put food on the table, working everyday, cooking, cleaning, laundry, homework. GIVE ME A BREAK! As far as I am concerned, no MAN has any right to have an opinion about abortion.

<font color="blue">I do believe fertile women do have more of a right to decide this issue than men or post childbearing women. However, we, even men, all have rights to our opinion, despite your feelings. Your politics are exclusionary, not the democratic way. I'll stay on the American side where we all have a right to an opinion, men and women. </font color>

Financially, this country would actually be better off promoting vasectomies for young unmarried men. They are reversable you know. And just look at how many men you know yourself who are married, unfaithful, and then the mistress gets pregnant. Those guys are definately for abortion then I assure you. Or they are in high school and their girlfriend who has been pressured to give them what they want,

<font color="blue"> pressured?, like made to do this as in their having no free will or anything? getting into bed with a married guy is o.k. but not expecting consequences is normal?</font color>

and then she gets pregnant, yeah, I assure you abortion is the first word on their lips. I am sick and tired of hearing women put down over this whole abortion issue.

<font color="blue"> I don't remember putting women down over this issue, just asking if, in your opinion, they are hapless victims? </font color>

It takes two to tango you know.

<font color="blue">Apparently, you don't think it takes two to tango, only the man has any blame in your words. </font color> The vast majority of young unmarried women who opt to keep their babies, raise them alone because they can't afford the paternity tests required to bring the fathers to the table. We are living in a time when half the children in this country are being raised with no father in the home.

<font color="blue"> This is, indeed sad, but more a sign of a declining cultural value system supported and funded by the liberal left. IMHO. </font color>

The trouble with this country is that all the idealism and religeon in the world doesn't change the facts of human nature.

<font color="blue"> It did for many, many decades. It seems almost funny that when you have gotten the products of the culture you asked for, you don't like the outcome!

</font color> Idealism untempered by practicality is folley as far as I am concerned.

<font color="blue"> This could and should have been the DNC slogan this year. </font color>

Go read some statistics and then we can communicate. <font color="blue">

You are not, providing statistics. You are only saying they exist. </font color>

Gayle in Md. <hr /></blockquote>

Deeman

SPetty
12-13-2004, 09:14 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote SnakebyteXX:</font><hr> <font color="blue">Twenty five years ago I would not have believed that so many women in this country would come to rely on abortion as a convenient means of birth control. </font color> <hr /></blockquote>This one keeps gnawing at me. I have a really hard time believing that very many women use abortion as a first-line method of convenient birth control. What makes you say that?

SnakebyteXX
12-13-2004, 09:39 AM
What is your solution for all the run away fathers in this country? Have you ever read the statistics regarding the reasons that women consider abortion in the first place.

<font color="blue">IMHO: There's a kind of paradox involved here. Simply put, if two people KNOW that they are going to have sex then clearly they each have a duty of care to take precautions to prevent any unwanted pregnancy. However, the situation quickly gets complicated because of the many moral/guilt based 'just say no' - 'sex is bad' cultural issues heaped on by our society. All too often, guilt over the prospect of having sex leads to denial that they're going to have sex - that it's only 'okay' if it happens accidentally in the heat of passion. Under these conditions the sex act becomes something that's only okay if it happens unintentionally. Not surprising that proper precautions don't come into play under those circumstances.

Once an unwanted pregnancy occurs then abortion becomes a last ditch alternative to giving birth. My grievance on a personal level is with the several women I've known in my lifetime who have had three, four and five abortions. These women have used abortion as a convenient alternative to taking responsibility for preventing pregnancy in the first place. One accidental pregnancy I can understand but three or four? Please...
</font color>

Personally, I think that when you have a government that is swiftly moving toward overturning Roe V. Wade, and their only solution for our young people growing up in a sex crazed society is abstinence, and then you look at the statistics regarding run away fathers, and how many women are raising their children alone, trying to put food on the table, working everyday, cooking, cleaning, laundry, homework. GIVE ME A BREAK! As far as I am concerned, no MAN has any right to have an opinion about abortion.

<font color="blue">So, can we agree that sex is inevitable and that to pretend otherwise is inviting disaster? You may be right in your assertion that the final choice rests with the woman who is faced with an unwanted pregnancy - but given her obvious vulnerablity (she can become pregant, a physical impossibility for her male partner) wouldn't it follow that she bears the primary burden of preventing the pregancy in the first place? </font color>

Financially, this country would actually be better off promoting vasectomies for young unmarried men. They are reversable you know.

<font color="blue">You're talking very expensive micro-surgery here with a far from certain outcome. I have one close friend whose first wife was adamently opposed to having any children and insisted that he get a vasectomy. Later they divorced and he remarried. The second wife wanted very much to have children. Guess what? In spite of his best efforts the vasectomy couldn't be reversed. </font color>

And just look at how many men you know yourself who are married, unfaithful, and then the mistress gets pregnant. Those guys are definately for abortion then I assure you. Or they are in high school and their girlfriend who has been pressured to give them what they want, and then she gets pregnant, yeah, I assure you abortion is the first word on their lips. I am sick and tired of hearing women put down over this whole abortion issue. It takes two to tango you know. The vast majority of young unmarried women who opt to keep their babies, raise them alone because they can't afford the paternity tests required to bring the fathers to the table. We are living in a time when half the children in this country are being raised with no father in the home.

<font color="blue">Sorry, this last paragraph feels like a gross over-simplification to me. Yes, there are many irresponsible men who abandon their partners when unwanted pregnancy occurs. But what of the woman who KNOWS she is fertile and can get pregnant but does little or NOTHING to prevent it? Just how 'accidental' are so-called accidental pregnancies anyhow? </font color>

The trouble with this country is that all the idealism and religeon in the world doesn't change the facts of human nature. Idealism untempered by practicality is folley as far as I am concerned.

<font color="blue">Agreed. </font color>

SnakebyteXX
12-13-2004, 10:25 AM
[ QUOTE ]
I have a really hard time believing that very many women use abortion as a first-line method of convenient birth control. What makes you say that? <hr /></blockquote>

In all honesty I have no idea if 'very many' women rely on it as a first-line method. I'm not sure what the demographics on repeat abortions would show. I have known quite a few women personally who have had multiple abortions. My opinion is that for them abortion became a first-line method due to carelessness. However, please don't get me wrong, I do not think that the responsibility to prevent pregancy is the sole province of women - not by a long shot.

Gayle in MD
12-13-2004, 10:37 AM
I Said...AS FAR AS I AM CONCERNED, do I have a right to my opinion?

As long as there are men who think they have a right to dictate, or try to pass laws that dictate, what a woman does with her own body, women will continue to be opressed.

Gayle in Md.

Wally_in_Cincy
12-13-2004, 10:43 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Gayle in MD:</font><hr> I Said...AS FAR AS I AM CONCERNED, do I have a right to my opinion?

As long as there are men who think they have a right to dictate, or try to pass laws that dictate, what a woman does with her own body, women will continue to be opressed.

Gayle in Md. <hr /></blockquote>

some women need to be opressed

Deeman2
12-13-2004, 10:50 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Wally_in_Cincy:</font><hr> <blockquote><font class="small">Quote Gayle in MD:</font><hr> I Said...AS FAR AS I AM CONCERNED, do I have a right to my opinion?

As long as there are men who think they have a right to dictate, or try to pass laws that dictate, what a woman does with her own body, women will continue to be opressed.

Gayle in Md. <hr /></blockquote>

some women need to be opressed <hr /></blockquote>

<font color="brown"> TAP, TAP, TAP /ccboard/images/graemlins/smirk.gif </font color>

Fred Agnir
12-13-2004, 10:56 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote SPetty:</font><hr> <blockquote><font class="small">Quote SnakebyteXX:</font><hr> <font color="blue">Twenty five years ago I would not have believed that so many women in this country would come to rely on abortion as a convenient means of birth control. </font color> <hr /></blockquote>This one keeps gnawing at me. I have a really hard time believing that very many women use abortion as a first-line method of convenient birth control. What makes you say that? <hr /></blockquote>
Over-the-top sensationalism, embellishment and over-generalization. It's a stawman, a non sequitur, and probably a couple more other debate fallacies.

Fred

crawdaddio
12-13-2004, 11:25 AM
Sorry, I haven't posted here in awhile, and this one's gonna be a driveby. I just found this funny.

[quote Gayle] What is your solution for all the run away fathers in this country? <hr /></blockquote>

[quote Deeman] It is not to convict those who may or may not do this in the future. It probably should be to prosecute the hell out of offenders, <font color="blue"> not punish the ones who might offend in the future. </font color> I wouldn't call for sterilization of young women simply because they might get into a foolish relationship and get pregnant. <hr /></blockquote>

Now, if I may, I would parallel this response to "pre-emptive strikes" such as the invasion and occupation that the US is currently involved in. You did support this invasion, correct? I apologize if my assumption is incorrect.

Peace
~DC-----------&gt;Finds hypocrasy funny, especially when it's my own........ /ccboard/images/graemlins/blush.gif

Deeman2
12-13-2004, 11:49 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote crawdaddio:</font><hr> Sorry, I haven't posted here in awhile, and this one's gonna be a driveby. I just found this funny.

[quote Gayle] What is your solution for all the run away fathers in this country? <hr /></blockquote>

[quote Deeman] It is not to convict those who may or may not do this in the future. It probably should be to prosecute the hell out of offenders, <font color="blue"> not punish the ones who might offend in the future. </font color> I wouldn't call for sterilization of young women simply because they might get into a foolish relationship and get pregnant. <hr /></blockquote>

Now, if I may, I would parallel this response to "pre-emptive strikes" such as the invasion and occupation that the US is currently involved in. <font color="blue"> You might, others would not. </font color> You did support this invasion, correct? <font color="blue"> Yes, I supported both the occupation and invasion as well as the pre-emptive strikes against Afganistan. I. of course, don't see the parallel as you do. The possible father of a child has not broken any law. He has not, for instance, ignored 27 UN resolutions, harbored terrorists (wheather 9/11 trainees or even Anti-Semitic suicide bombers). He has not brokered oil for food into payoff money to the UN itself and probably, except in cases involving Scott Peterson types, even killed his own people. </font color> I apologize if my assumption is incorrect. <font color="blue"> Absolutely, no need Crawdittio. Some people are just not capable of seeing beyond raw and refined Hypocricy. /ccboard/images/graemlins/smirk.gif

I stand by my analysis of the situation. Now, if I would have gone and arrested Scott Peterson before he killed his wife and fetus (I know you guys are unclear on the legal status of this depending on abortion or murder) I might have prevented the murders. Alas, that would be pre-emptive. I actually live down that road paved with good intensions that someone here has as a tag line, but live right next to Hypocricy and just a block away from Sarcasm.

Peace, Love and Nine Balls comin at ya...

Deeman </font color>

Peace
~DC-----------&gt;Finds hypocrasy funny, especially when it's my own........ /ccboard/images/graemlins/blush.gif <hr /></blockquote>

hondo
12-13-2004, 11:55 AM
Tyranny begins when complacency sets in.


<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Wally_in_Cincy:</font><hr> <blockquote><font class="small">Quote hondo:</font><hr> Tap! Tap! TaP! I hope we don't get over it either.<hr /></blockquote>

What do you have to gain by that?

The Republicans got over the 1960 election just fine. <hr /></blockquote>

hondo
12-13-2004, 12:05 PM
Much of the Muslim world believes that Americans
are greedy, manipulative, atheistic, immoral
people. Americans know that is not true. If I
judged all Christians by either Jim Jones or
the tele-evangelists, if I judged all politicians
by bush and the Council for Foreign Relations, if
I judged all businessmen by Enron or the oil barons,
I would be narrow-minded and wrong. Yet we have no
qualms about doing that to Muslims. Narrow minded
people, narrow minded ideas.

hondo
12-13-2004, 12:07 PM
I do.

I don't recall hearing any denouncements of terrorism by the Muslim clergy, even here in the states <hr /></blockquote>

Deeman2
12-13-2004, 01:04 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote hondo:</font><hr> Much of the Muslim world believes that Americans
are greedy, manipulative, atheistic, immoral
people. <font color="blue"> Much ofthe entire world believes this but most of them are not trying to kill us or bring our way of life to an end. </font color> Americans know that is not true. <font color="blue"> This is true in some cases. In some, Americans think we are as bad as the Muslims think we are. </font color> If I
judged all Christians by either Jim Jones or
the tele-evangelists, if I judged all politicians
by bush and the Council for Foreign Relations, if
I judged all businessmen by Enron or the oil barons,
I would be narrow-minded and wrong. <font color="blue"> Would you be wrong? Are you so open minded that you believe that politics is a not very nasty business at the national level? Don't be hurt that one was just a tab better at the gamne than the other. If you don't think both play the exact same game, you are the narrow minded one. That big business got that way by being fair, tolerant and always having interests above their own?</font color> Yet we have no
qualms about doing that to Muslims. <font color="blue"> You are trying to make me sound Zenophobic or racist. We have both had very different exposure to the Muslim world. I saw what I saw through the normal press, not Fox news. If we want to go back and change things and say, "The Arab comunity and the mainstream Muslims widely decried the atrocities against the American people", I believe you are attempting a revisionist historical ploy that most can't agree with, at least me. </font color> Narrow minded
people, narrow minded ideas. <font color="blue"> Open minded people are not especially right, in even most cases. You can be tolerant and understanding but still be rational. Again, I have not ever indicated we should in any way sanction actions against even those people who I said cheered at our misfortune. I do believe, however, we should not cover up for their intolerance just to sound PC and open minded. Many of the Jews murdered in Europe were very open minded. I think, they were among the first to go. If you believe you have the moral high ground here, that's fine. A superior attitude is the among the first signs of recovery for anyone battling narrow mindedness with such passion and vogor. </font color>

Deeman<hr /></blockquote>

SecaucusFats
12-13-2004, 04:20 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote hondo:</font><hr> Narrow minded people. Narrow minded ideas.


<blockquote><font class="small">Quote SecaucusFats:</font><hr> Around the world Muslims are involved in acts of terror against Christians, Jews, Buddhists, Animists, Hindus and others. In Sudan the Muslims are perpetrating genocide on Christians (and also engaging in the slave trade. In Egypt the minority Coptic Christians have been attacked, marginalized, and are under constant threat. In Thailand the Muslims have committed atrocities against the Buddhists. In Russia, Muslim rebels maimed and murdered innocent children. Add to the list of the aforementioned countries where Muslims have committed their heinous acts the following Nigeria, Indonesia, Phillipines, Spain, Holland, and of course Israel and the US. At the heart of all this lies Saudi Arabia, and its virulent Wahhabist ideology. 80% of American Mosques are funded by Saudi Arabia and presided over by hate spewing Wahabbi Imams. Islam has always been spread at the point of a sword, the choice Muslims offer is convert or die. They are murderers, deceivers, wife beaters, genital mutilators, honor-killers,homicide bombers, and snuff film aficionados. Mohammed himself was a pedophile, murderer, and boy buggerer..it's all there in the history if you care to look. It is foolish and dangerous to buy into the whole "religion of peace" nonsense. There peaceful alright until the time is right and then they kill with great joy all the while chanting "Allahu Akbar" (god is great). If push ever comes to shove right here in America, I will not be the least bit hesitant to resist and defend myself, and mine against them with every weapon at my disposal regardless of what nationality the Muslims in question lay claim to.

SF <hr /></blockquote> <hr /></blockquote>

What "ideas" are you refering to? Are you claiming I made this up? Sorry Hondo check the facts. Muslims have, are, and will continue to attack Hindus, Buddhists, Christians, Jews, Animists, Atheists, in short anyone who refuses to along with their program (or is it pogrom?). Are you aware that converting from Islam is punishable by death in the vast majority of Mulim countries? That preaching any religion other than Islam is punishable by death in those same nations?

The slave trade is alive and well in many Muslim parts of North Africa particularly the Sudan (by the way the slaves are black and Christian). Genital mutilation is widely practiced in many Muslim countries. And wife beating is approved by the Koran. Muslim Middle Eastern TV stations are constantly showing programs depicting Jews and others as evil, speeches by Imams calling for Jihad and death to all non-Muslims are an almost daily staple. Saudi money funds Wahhabi "Madrassas" (religious schools) which in turn produce the most hateful and violent of the Islamo-fascists.

Mohammed himself was a pedophile, a highway robber, and a murderer.

I'm terribly sorry this those not agree with your PC sensibilities old chap, but "Frankly Scarlet, I don't give a damn!)

Take a look at these sites and take your head out of the sand:

Apostates of Islam (http://www.apostatesofislam.com/main.htm)

Faithfreedom.org (http://www.faithfreedom.org/)

Middle East Media Research Institute (http://www.memri.org/video/)

SF &lt; All I need to know about Islam I learned on 09/11.

SnakebyteXX
12-13-2004, 04:35 PM
[ QUOTE ]
Genital mutilation is widely practiced in many Muslim countries. <hr /></blockquote>

Are you referring strictly to clitordectomy here? Or are you including circumcision as well?

If I don't miss my guess, it's still generally practiced in this country as well (circumcision).

SecaucusFats
12-13-2004, 05:05 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote SnakebyteXX:</font><hr> &lt;/font&gt;&lt;blockquote&gt;&lt;font class="small"&gt;Quote:&lt;/font&gt;&lt;hr /&gt;
Genital mutilation is widely practiced in many Muslim countries. <hr /></blockquote>

Are you referring strictly to clitordectomy here? Or are you including circumcision as well?

If I don't miss my guess, it's still generally practiced in this country as well (circumcision). <hr /></blockquote>

I am refering to the barbaric practice of cutting off the clitoris and most of the labia and often followed up by infibulation (the sewing shut of the vaginal opening). This is almost always done at home (without anaesthesia) to prepubescent girls. The procedure is performed under unsanitary conditions using common items such as scissors, knives, barber's razors, sewing thread, and sewing needles.

The male equivalent would be the cutting off of the glans or "head" of the penis on prepubescent boys under similarly horrifying conditions. Circumcision as practiced in the Western World is an altogether different thing (although IMO, it is also an act of mutilation). Think about it.

SF

SnakebyteXX
12-13-2004, 05:33 PM
[ QUOTE ]
Circumcision as practiced in the Western World is an altogether different thing (although IMO, it is also an act of mutilation). <hr /></blockquote>

You'll get no argument from me. I have two sons - both uncut.

My father worked in military intelligence. We were stationed on a listening post in Turkey (near the Russian border) when I was a kid. At that time, the Muslim tradition of circumcision was considered a rite of passage into manhood. Every year at a given time the young adolescent boys would gather in the village square where amidst great fanfare their foreskins were cut off. The boys all stood in line while a single knife was used on them one at a time - no anesthetic. Afterwards the boys lay about in great pain while the remainder of the crowd celebrated into the night. I thought it was a barbaric custom then and I have yet to change my mind.


Snake

Gayle in MD
12-13-2004, 10:08 PM
This proof of your chauvinism does not surprise me at all. I knew long ago that you and your Deeman buddy were chauvinists, long before you both finally came out of the closet.


Gayle in Md.

Gayle in MD
12-13-2004, 10:56 PM
Although your first paragraph is brilliant, and I agree with much of what you have written, I read little or nothing regarding responsibility of the male in the scenario. To me, it doesn't matter really why or how unwanted pregnancies occur, what matters is that people want to dictate what a woman can do about them.

Although I am sure I will get a few very untruthful and unrealistic responses from the two very outspoken chauvinistic posters in this thread, (They knew who they are and have already outed themselves) it seems safe to say that traditionally it has been men who have disconnected themselves from their own unwanted children in far far greater numbers than women ever have. Therefore, it is interesting that it is also men who get so riled up over the whole abortion issue.

Until men can be forced to either take atleast half the responsibility for unwanted pregnancies by our government, and vigorously prosecuted in our courts, I for one am not interested in what men think about abortion.

I find it very strange that you make absolutely no reference to the male responsibility involved in unwanted pregnancy.

You state that since a woman knows she is fertile????? Are you saying that the man having sex with her doesn't know she is fertile? You say since she is the one who can get pregnant? Isn't the child also the man's child?

Men traditionally desire to have all the sex they want with none of the responsibility required to avoid unwanted pregnancies. Therefore, their verbal attacks on women's right to abortion, regardless of when, or how many she has should definately be not only stiffled, but forbidden, IMO.

Unwanted pregnancies are for men, "A woman's issue," during the responsibility stage, but then they want to have a say so about what a woman can and cannot do to deal with the pregnancy. This is totally wrong, not only is it wrong, but it is extremely opressive.

As regards birth control, since it is generally the male gender who so yearns for variety, generally speaking ofcourse, and since the male gender has such a tremendous potential to reproduce himself with many many women in any given night, it is also interesting that when one begins to suggest the MEN get themselves cut, as a national effort to control unwanted pregnancies, out come the chauvinists, (Not you) screaming about killing babies!

We can freeze male sperm so that men can reproduce at a later date.

It does get a bit old, this issue of men wanting to have sex whenever and where ever with whomever they wish, assumming no responsibility for the possible resulting pregnancy, yet beating their breasts over the inhumanity of abortion!

Gayle in Md.

Wally_in_Cincy
12-14-2004, 06:37 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Gayle in MD:</font><hr> This proof of your chauvinism does not surprise me at all. I knew long ago that you and your Deeman buddy were chauvinists, long before you both finally came out of the closet.


Gayle in Md. <hr /></blockquote>

Yeah, you're right. Some women just need a good slap in the face.

Now go get me a beer.

pooltchr
12-14-2004, 06:39 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Gayle in MD:</font><hr> since the male gender has such a tremendous potential to reproduce himself with many many women in any given night, <hr /></blockquote>

I suspect there are men who WISH they had that potential, but I dare say the majority of men don't have that physical capability. (There are probably a few women who wish their man had that potential!!!) Probably not the "man haters" though!

Wally_in_Cincy
12-14-2004, 06:44 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Gayle in MD:</font><hr>
..Although I am sure I will get a few very untruthful and unrealistic responses from the two very outspoken chauvinistic posters in this thread, (They knew who they are and have already outed themselves) <hr /></blockquote>

Untruthful? Please direct me to something I have written that is untruthful.

Gayle, what about all the women that get pregnant on purpose so they can get a guy to marry them, or just to place a siphon hose in his bank account?

It goes both ways.

Deeman2
12-14-2004, 07:03 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Gayle in MD:</font><hr> This proof of your chauvinism does not surprise me at all. I knew long ago that you and your Deeman buddy were chauvinists, long before you both finally came out of the closet.


Gayle in Md. <hr /></blockquote>

<font color="blue"> As usual Gayle, no direct answers to points, just more name calling. When we make valid points, you answer with your standard "I knew you both were bla, bla ,bla....Typical, but effective for your fellow liberals. </font color>

DickLeonard
12-14-2004, 07:25 AM
I posed this question to a Wall Streeter. Name me a company that you would bet your life on that their annual report was truthful.

I am still waiting for his answer.####

hondo
12-14-2004, 07:52 AM
If you knew me you would know I am one of the LEAST
pc people out there. I just believe that generalizing
about an entire religious movement is dangerous.
We are brainwashed by Western propaganda. Also,
I notice we are using "pc" as an accusatory tool
now when somebody disagrees with us.



<blockquote><font class="small">Quote SecaucusFats:</font><hr> <blockquote><font class="small">Quote hondo:</font><hr> Narrow minded people. Narrow minded ideas.


<blockquote><font class="small">Quote SecaucusFats:</font><hr> Around the world Muslims are involved in acts of terror against Christians, Jews, Buddhists, Animists, Hindus and others. In Sudan the Muslims are perpetrating genocide on Christians (and also engaging in the slave trade. In Egypt the minority Coptic Christians have been attacked, marginalized, and are under constant threat. In Thailand the Muslims have committed atrocities against the Buddhists. In Russia, Muslim rebels maimed and murdered innocent children. Add to the list of the aforementioned countries where Muslims have committed their heinous acts the following Nigeria, Indonesia, Phillipines, Spain, Holland, and of course Israel and the US. At the heart of all this lies Saudi Arabia, and its virulent Wahhabist ideology. 80% of American Mosques are funded by Saudi Arabia and presided over by hate spewing Wahabbi Imams. Islam has always been spread at the point of a sword, the choice Muslims offer is convert or die. They are murderers, deceivers, wife beaters, genital mutilators, honor-killers,homicide bombers, and snuff film aficionados. Mohammed himself was a pedophile, murderer, and boy buggerer..it's all there in the history if you care to look. It is foolish and dangerous to buy into the whole "religion of peace" nonsense. There peaceful alright until the time is right and then they kill with great joy all the while chanting "Allahu Akbar" (god is great). If push ever comes to shove right here in America, I will not be the least bit hesitant to resist and defend myself, and mine against them with every weapon at my disposal regardless of what nationality the Muslims in question lay claim to.

SF <hr /></blockquote> <hr /></blockquote>

What "ideas" are you refering to? Are you claiming I made this up? Sorry Hondo check the facts. Muslims have, are, and will continue to attack Hindus, Buddhists, Christians, Jews, Animists, Atheists, in short anyone who refuses to along with their program (or is it pogrom?). Are you aware that converting from Islam is punishable by death in the vast majority of Mulim countries? That preaching any religion other than Islam is punishable by death in those same nations?

The slave trade is alive and well in many Muslim parts of North Africa particularly the Sudan (by the way the slaves are black and Christian). Genital mutilation is widely practiced in many Muslim countries. And wife beating is approved by the Koran. Muslim Middle Eastern TV stations are constantly showing programs depicting Jews and others as evil, speeches by Imams calling for Jihad and death to all non-Muslims are an almost daily staple. Saudi money funds Wahhabi "Madrassas" (religious schools) which in turn produce the most hateful and violent of the Islamo-fascists.

Mohammed himself was a pedophile, a highway robber, and a murderer.

I'm terribly sorry this those not agree with your PC sensibilities old chap, but "Frankly Scarlet, I don't give a damn!)

Take a look at these sites and take your head out of the sand:

Apostates of Islam (http://www.apostatesofislam.com/main.htm)

Faithfreedom.org (http://www.faithfreedom.org/)

Middle East Media Research Institute (http://www.memri.org/video/)

SF &lt; All I need to know about Islam I learned on 09/11.
<hr /></blockquote>

SPetty
12-14-2004, 09:57 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Wally_in_Cincy:</font><hr>Some women just need a good slap in the face. <hr /></blockquote>I can only guess that you don't really believe that and that you were just trying to be funny. There's nothing funny about that statement. In my most sincere and non-confrontational way, I ask, please don't talk like that.

Wally_in_Cincy
12-14-2004, 10:02 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote SPetty:</font><hr> <blockquote><font class="small">Quote Wally_in_Cincy:</font><hr>Some women just need a good slap in the face. <hr /></blockquote>I'm going to guess that you don't really believe that and that you were just trying to be funny. There's nothing funny about that statement. In my most sincere and non-confrontational way, I ask, please don't talk like that.
<hr /></blockquote>

I'm just trying to get Gayle riled up.

Plus she will have this handy quote to dig up for the next year or so as if it was said in seriousness.

Ross
12-14-2004, 04:42 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Deeman2:</font><hr> <blockquote><font class="small">Quote Gayle in MD:</font><hr> This proof of your chauvinism does not surprise me at all. I knew long ago that you and your Deeman buddy were chauvinists, long before you both finally came out of the closet.


Gayle in Md. <hr /></blockquote>

<font color="blue"> As usual Gayle, no direct answers to points, just more name calling. When we make valid points, you answer with your standard "I knew you both were bla, bla ,bla....Typical, but effective for your fellow liberals. </font color> <hr /></blockquote>

Deeman, I was with you in calling for more specifics and less character attacks but then you take this swipe at liberals in general. You won't find much in the way of personal attacks nor trashing of conservatives in general in posts from this liberal nor from my "fellow liberals" like Naz, 9-ball Girl, Hondo, Rich R., SPetty, etc. In both camps, liberal and conservative, there will be those who are reasonable and well informed and those who are neither. Neither group has a monopoly on civility or incivility, IMO.

SPetty
12-14-2004, 06:21 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Ross:</font><hr> You won't find much in the way of personal attacks nor trashing of conservatives in general in posts from this liberal nor from my "fellow liberals" like Naz, 9-ball Girl, Hondo, Rich R., SPetty, etc. <hr /></blockquote>Hey, now, please no labels on me!

Other than that, nice post. /ccboard/images/graemlins/wink.gif

Ross
12-15-2004, 12:21 AM
Awww, come on SPetty girl, you know you're one of us! /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif

Deeman2
12-15-2004, 07:51 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Ross:</font><hr> but then you take this swipe at liberals in general. You won't find much in the way of personal attacks nor trashing of conservatives in general in posts from this liberal nor from my "fellow liberals" l <hr /></blockquote>

<font color="blue"> Ross,

You are right and I apoligise. I do not think all liberals are name calling types and should not have classified them as such. Most of you do give reasoned opinions and facts and it was not fair of me to lump everyone in a category. I stand (well I'm sitting now) corrected.
/ccboard/images/graemlins/blush.gif

Deeman </font color>
I said I lived next door to Hypocracy...I was right...

Gayle in MD
12-15-2004, 08:27 AM
All the women? Just how many do you think there are who get pregnant in order to get child support from a man? And also, just how many women do you think are impregnated by men as a means of control? How many men are raped and murdered by women in this country every year?

When you think that the major cause of death in pregnancy for a woman, is murder by the father of the baby, and here we are on an internet forum where you are justifying violence against a woman, I dare say, you and I have nothing to discuss.

Gayle in Md.

Gayle in MD
12-15-2004, 08:48 AM
I think there is a difference between name-calling and a using a correct current slang definition for men who think it is right to oppress women. Both you and Walley in your posts are justifying opression of women, and in Walley's case, violence toward women.

You wouldn't recognize a valid point if it came up and bitch slapped you in the face, LOL.

Gayle in Md.,

Chopstick
12-15-2004, 09:42 AM
Hey Wally and DeeMan.

Chivalry and feminism are NOT mutually exclusive. They are just opposite ways of telling you that you're wrong.

Chops &lt;~~~~~~ Put a sock in it Gayle.

Barbara
12-15-2004, 10:05 AM
Geez Gayle, get a grip on yourself! Wally and Deeman are just yanking your chain and you're falling for all this and handing them the chain to boot!

Barbara

Deeman2
12-15-2004, 10:24 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Gayle in MD:</font><hr> I think there is a difference between name-calling and a using a correct current slang definition for men who think it is right to oppress women. <font color="blue">While I apoligised to many for lumping them into a category I should have been more spectific and directed it only toward you. </font color> Both you and Walley in your posts are justifying opression of women, and in Walley's case, violence toward women. <font color="blue"> How have I justified oppression of women? I don't think Wally was serious about any violence, although he can certainly speak for himself. IN your world, we have to be very PC but you can simply laugh off any derogatory comments you make with a LOL after your blast at us. </font color>

You wouldn't recognize a valid point if it came up and bitch slapped you in the face, LOL. <font color="blue">

As I have yet to see you respond with any valid counterarguments besides how men treat women (a generalization you heap on anyone who dares to have an opinion that does not share your values) beyond male chavinistic retoric, you have no reasoned opinion beyond your obvious hatred for men who as not "sensitive" to your whining. That's o.k., as this is your right in America. Just don't try to pile all men into rapist, oppressor, anti-women logos. You may have had misforturne in your personal life that may have formed your opinions of men in general and conservative men in particular. Don't blame us for that, if it the case. I have never raped a woman, never "bitch slapped" any female and do not intend to. I have hired and promoted many women based on their professional performance and nothing else. As well, I won't be the one protesting outside a prison when they are ready to execute a man for rape. Nor will I be silent when a president, Democrat or Republican takes advantage of a young woman. However, I won't let any woman of the hook on for any responsibility at all for her pregnant condition if she was a willing participant or consenting age. I have not missed a support payment in my entire life after divorce, despite a year of unemployment in that time. Yes, I was unemployed by a direct act of Bush in levying the steel tarifs. Just because it put me out of work for a while, I didn't jump on the anti-Bush bandwagon because I thought it was convienent for me. I thought Bush was better for the country my GIRLS will have to live in. I have no BOYS. I can give you my ex's phone number (via Private e-mail) and you can ask what kind of male pig I am to her...

Deeman</font color>

Gayle in Md., <hr /></blockquote>

Deeman2
12-15-2004, 10:30 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Barbara:</font><hr> Geez Gayle, get a grip on yourself! Wally and Deeman are just yanking your chain and you're falling for all this and handing them the chain to boot!

Barbara <hr /></blockquote>

<font color="blue">Hey, Barb...

Don't stop this. I don't spoil your fun! /ccboard/images/graemlins/smirk.gif </font color>

Deeman
arguing is a hobby...do I look fat in these pantyhose???

Ross
12-15-2004, 11:19 AM
It's all good... /ccboard/images/graemlins/smirk.gif

SPetty
12-15-2004, 11:19 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Deeman2:</font><hr><font color="blue"> However, I won't let any woman of the hook on for any responsibility at all for her pregnant condition if she was a willing participant or consenting age. </font color> <hr /></blockquote>...willing participant of consenting age. Changes the meaning a bit...

SpiderMan
12-15-2004, 11:50 AM
Dee,

I predict that Gayle is unlikely to respond to this post:

<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Deeman2:</font><hr> <blockquote><font class="small">Quote Gayle in MD:</font><hr> Oh really,
Generally speaking, most folks realize when a person follows a sentence with the letters "LOL" that they are joking.

Please refrain from referring to me as comrad. <font color="blue"> Comrad, Comrad, Comrad </font color>

What is your solution for all the run away fathers in this country?

<font color="blue"> It is not to convict those who may or may not do this in the future. It probably should be to prosecute the hell out of offenders, not punish the ones who might offend in the future. I wouldn't call for sterilization of young women simply because they might get into a foolish relationship and get pregnant. That would be as stupid as women being mutilated by Muslims. (if they did that sort of thing!)PC alert! </font color>

Have you ever read the statistics regarding the reasons that women consider abortion in the first place.

<font color="blue"> No, I didn't know they kept these. </font color>

Personally, I think that when you have a government that is swiftly moving toward overturning Roe V. Wade, <font color="blue"> You are wrong. </font color> and their only solution for our young people growing up in a sex crazed society is abstinence, and then you look at the statistics regarding run away fathers, and how many women are raising their children alone, <font color="blue"> Too, too many. </font color> trying to put food on the table, working everyday, cooking, cleaning, laundry, homework. GIVE ME A BREAK! As far as I am concerned, no MAN has any right to have an opinion about abortion.

<font color="blue">I do believe fertile women do have more of a right to decide this issue than men or post childbearing women. However, we, even men, all have rights to our opinion, despite your feelings. Your politics are exclusionary, not the democratic way. I'll stay on the American side where we all have a right to an opinion, men and women. </font color>

Financially, this country would actually be better off promoting vasectomies for young unmarried men. They are reversable you know. And just look at how many men you know yourself who are married, unfaithful, and then the mistress gets pregnant. Those guys are definately for abortion then I assure you. Or they are in high school and their girlfriend who has been pressured to give them what they want,

<font color="blue"> pressured?, like made to do this as in their having no free will or anything? getting into bed with a married guy is o.k. but not expecting consequences is normal?</font color>

and then she gets pregnant, yeah, I assure you abortion is the first word on their lips. I am sick and tired of hearing women put down over this whole abortion issue.

<font color="blue"> I don't remember putting women down over this issue, just asking if, in your opinion, they are hapless victims? </font color>

It takes two to tango you know.

<font color="blue">Apparently, you don't think it takes two to tango, only the man has any blame in your words. </font color> The vast majority of young unmarried women who opt to keep their babies, raise them alone because they can't afford the paternity tests required to bring the fathers to the table. We are living in a time when half the children in this country are being raised with no father in the home.

<font color="blue"> This is, indeed sad, but more a sign of a declining cultural value system supported and funded by the liberal left. IMHO. </font color>

The trouble with this country is that all the idealism and religeon in the world doesn't change the facts of human nature.

<font color="blue"> It did for many, many decades. It seems almost funny that when you have gotten the products of the culture you asked for, you don't like the outcome!

</font color> Idealism untempered by practicality is folley as far as I am concerned.

<font color="blue"> This could and should have been the DNC slogan this year. </font color>

Go read some statistics and then we can communicate. <font color="blue">

You are not, providing statistics. You are only saying they exist. </font color>

Gayle in Md. <hr /></blockquote>

Deeman <hr /></blockquote>

Deeman2
12-15-2004, 12:09 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote SPetty:</font><hr> <blockquote><font class="small">Quote Deeman2:</font><hr><font color="blue"> However, I won't let any woman of the hook on for any responsibility at all for her pregnant condition if she was a willing participant or consenting age. </font color> <hr /></blockquote>...willing participant of consenting age. Changes the meaning a bit... <hr /></blockquote>

<font color="blue">SPetty,

Yes, I meant "and of consenting age". My fingers don't always hit where they are supposed to as you witnessed in my finals match against Chopstick!

Deeman </font color>

Deeman2
12-15-2004, 12:18 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote SpiderMan:</font><hr> Dee,

I predict that Gayle is unlikely to respond to this post:

<hr /></blockquote>

Spiderman,

You must be a Jean Dixon! Well. she might respond, but never to the points made. Hey. it's all good. I like open, two sided debate. I can't deal as well with one sided stuff anyway. I want someone to change my mind, if they can, with arguments and open discussion. That's the reason I never cross swords with SF, SPetty and you!!!!

Deeman
wishes he was as wise as he thinks he is.....

Deeman

eg8r
12-15-2004, 12:32 PM
[ QUOTE ]
I can't believe that all the men who are so against birth control, early abortion, or other, are walking around still sporting thier Vas Tubes, and sprinkling thier fertilizer to so many at one time. I woman can only make one baby every nine months, how many can one man make? Personally, I am for mandatory vasectomy for confirmed bachelors in particular, and all others who have "finished" thier families, LOL.
<hr /></blockquote> What a sexist thing to say. I guess the promiscuous females get a free ticket, after all if not for the fertlizer none of this would have happened. Ho hum, it is always the man's fault, sounds like the crap being spread by all the women from NOW.

eg8r

eg8r
12-15-2004, 12:35 PM
[ QUOTE ]
Although your first paragraph is brilliant, and I agree with much of what you have written, I read little or nothing regarding responsibility of the male in the scenario <hr /></blockquote> Well, with the choice of abortion, you have removed all responsibility from the female also.

eg8r

eg8r
12-15-2004, 12:42 PM
[ QUOTE ]
All the women? Just how many do you think there are who get pregnant in order to get child support from a man? And also, just how many women do you think are impregnated by men as a means of control? How many men are raped and murdered by women in this country every year? <hr /></blockquote> Because this number might be clearly defined as "not as often" you chauvinistically have decided to act like it is non-existant. Your last question might be closer to 0 than them all, but that does not negate the rest. Your posts come across as you believe the woman is always, no matter what the circumstances, the victim, frankly I don't buy it. You have chosen a very extreme instance to prove a point because that is easier than arguing the realities. Just to be clear, my perception of reality in most instances is that you have 2 irresponsible adults acting in a very adult manner and want the quick way out.

eg8r &lt;~~~thinks Gayle's post come across very chauvinistic

Wally_in_Cincy
12-15-2004, 12:52 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Gayle in MD:</font><hr> All the women? Just how many do you think there are who get pregnant in order to get child support from a man? <hr /></blockquote>

I personally know at least 3 and I suspect a couple more of doing it.

<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Gayle in MD:</font><hr>
..And also, just how many women do you think are impregnated by men as a means of control? <hr /></blockquote>

I don't know any.

<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Gayle in MD:</font><hr>
and here we are on an internet forum where you are justifying violence against a woman, I dare say, you and I have nothing to discuss. <hr /></blockquote>

Well since we are now not talking I suppose I won't get an answer to this question from another post.

<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Wally_in_Cincy:</font><hr> Please direct me to something I have written that is untruthful.
<hr /></blockquote>

hondo
12-15-2004, 01:21 PM
Gayle Darlin, I'm not like the rest of these
neanderthals. You'd like me.

eg8r
12-15-2004, 01:38 PM
[ QUOTE ]
Gayle Darlin, I'm not like the rest of these
neanderthals. You'd like me. <hr /></blockquote> LOL, you are just soft for women with a sharp tongue. /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif

eg8r

Deeman2
12-15-2004, 01:53 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote hondo:</font><hr> Gayle Darlin, I'm not like the rest of these
neanderthals. You'd like me. <hr /></blockquote>

<font color="blue"> Gee, Hondo!

If I thought you were not a liberal, this might be considered name calling! I don't even have a pronounced frontal lobe! Not that much anyway! However, I know you get a pass on that. I do suspect, that you have more likely developed your level of culture and sophistication to that of a an "enlightened" male who agrees with the FACT, as Gayle would say, that all men are slobs, not worthy and you might pander to every feminine accusation in order to be accepted among the elite, non-Neandertal men. My only question is what has kept you out of public office so long? I mean, surely a guy with your level of understanding of the plight of every woman at the hands of us cretens you could, and should, get out there in the fray and combat the inequities being heaped upon Gayle and her ilk.

I believe women are not treated fairly in all circumstances and should stand up for themselves as many do. I don't think they need us agreeing with everything they say just to be accepted. The women in my circle don't take nor give crap to me. They are independent, strong willed and don't need coddling, just a fair chance. If you treat them with dignity and respect them for who they are, they do wonderfully and don't need handouts or to be placated by sweet empty words. They would demand a man who got them in trouble be accountable, if they wanted the guy in their life. Some of these women don't want, nor need a man. My says a "Woman needs a Man like a Fish needs a Bicycle." That's a liberated woman. If she does need help and can't get it she should, and many times does, sick the law on their deadbeat butts. That is an entirely different argument than we have been having here. If you totally agree with Gayle, you need to recognise yourself as one of these dead beat guys and morn. I ask you to rise up from your Jerry Springer audition grounds (PC Not every West Virginia person is a Jerry Springer Guest, it just sems that way) Now I'm in trouble with Landshark!!! /ccboard/images/graemlins/frown.gif

Deeman
thinks Hondo is looking for a date....LOL this symbol makes the accusation o.k. right?</font color>

SecaucusFats
12-15-2004, 02:08 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote hondo:</font><hr> Gayle Darlin, I'm not like the rest of these
neanderthals. You'd like me. <hr /></blockquote>

Speaking for my fellow Neanderthals I must say that I am deeply offended. We Neanderthals have always valued our women-folk.


http://www.merseia.fsnet.co.uk/neanderthals.jpg


"If you prick us, do we not bleed? if you tickle us, do we not laugh? if you poison us, do we not die? and if you wrong us, shall we not revenge? If we are like you in the rest, we will resemble you in that"

Shakespeare

Say it loud: "I'm Neanderthal and proud!"

SF &lt; Neanderthal /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif

Chopstick
12-15-2004, 02:14 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote SecaucusFats:</font><hr>

"If you prick us, do we not bleed? if you tickle us, do we not laugh? if you poison us, do we not die? and if you wrong us, shall we not revenge? If we are like you in the rest, we will resemble you in that"

Shakespeare

Say it loud: "I'm Neanderthal and proud!"

SF &lt; Neanderthal /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif <hr /></blockquote>

Shakespeare?? I thought it was that one eyed guy in Star Trek six.

CS &lt; Pirate Arrrr....

Chopstick
12-15-2004, 02:18 PM
Hey SF. Spiderman and me was wondering. Are you actually fat? Some of your posts would indicate that you are not. So, why would go by the name Fats?

SecaucusFats
12-15-2004, 02:41 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Chopstick:</font><hr> Hey SF. Spiderman and me was wondering. Are you actually fat? Some of your posts would indicate that you are not. So, why would go by the name Fats? <hr /></blockquote>

Well I'm not "Sumo wrestler fat", but at 6'1" 280 lbs with a size 46 waist I'm definitely not thin. /ccboard/images/graemlins/smile.gif

SF

Deeman2
12-15-2004, 02:57 PM
SF,

I'm an inch taller but weight about the same. I guess in this new PC world, I would be known as Deeman "was Snake, now Deeman but could be Horizonatly Challenged Neandertal".

I'll accept that label if I could dish out a few others. Yep, you folks know I could come up with a few.... /ccboard/images/graemlins/smirk.gif

by the way, my present wife weighs in at 108 lbs. Is that considered abuse of women? Maybe I was wrong! Is there a "weight ratio to companion" we are violating? Well, it's fun anyway....

Deeman, revised... know Gayle is lusting after me now!

Chopstick
12-15-2004, 03:19 PM
Wow, That's a big guy.

I've got a shirt that will fit ya. Care for a shot at the title?

SecaucusFats
12-15-2004, 03:33 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Chopstick:</font><hr> <blockquote><font class="small">Quote SecaucusFats:</font><hr>

"If you prick us, do we not bleed? if you tickle us, do we not laugh? if you poison us, do we not die? and if you wrong us, shall we not revenge? If we are like you in the rest, we will resemble you in that"

Shakespeare

Say it loud: "I'm Neanderthal and proud!"

SF &lt; Neanderthal /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif <hr /></blockquote>

Shakespeare?? I thought it was that one eyed guy in Star Trek six.

CS &lt; Pirate Arrrr.... <hr /></blockquote>

That was General Chang. He was always quoting Shakespeare (from Macbeth).

http://www.ex-astris-scientia.org/gallery/artoftrek/chang1.jpg

SF

nhp
12-15-2004, 06:59 PM
Hey, what happened to that thread I made where we all reconciled and made friends? This thread is a bloodbath.

hondo
12-16-2004, 05:59 AM
Ouch! That might hurt!

<blockquote><font class="small">Quote eg8r:</font><hr> &lt;/font&gt;&lt;blockquote&gt;&lt;font class="small"&gt;Quote:&lt;/font&gt;&lt;hr /&gt;
Gayle Darlin, I'm not like the rest of these
neanderthals. You'd like me. <hr /></blockquote> LOL, you are just soft for women with a sharp tongue. /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif

eg8r <hr /></blockquote>

hondo
12-16-2004, 06:10 AM
See, I told you guys I wasn't pc. Now I've gotten the
neanderthal community up in arms.


<blockquote><font class="small">Quote SecaucusFats:</font><hr> <blockquote><font class="small">Quote hondo:</font><hr> Gayle Darlin, I'm not like the rest of these
neanderthals. You'd like me. <hr /></blockquote>

Speaking for my fellow Neanderthals I must say that I am deeply offended. We Neanderthals have always valued our women-folk.


http://www.merseia.fsnet.co.uk/neanderthals.jpg


"If you prick us, do we not bleed? if you tickle us, do we not laugh? if you poison us, do we not die? and if you wrong us, shall we not revenge? If we are like you in the rest, we will resemble you in that"

Shakespeare

Say it loud: "I'm Neanderthal and proud!"

SF &lt; Neanderthal /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif <hr /></blockquote>

hondo
12-16-2004, 06:17 AM
I love each and every one of you and would love to meet
some of you at DCC. I'll be there 21-23.

quote=nhp] Hey, what happened to that thread I made where we all reconciled and made friends? This thread is a bloodbath. <hr /></blockquote>

Gayle in MD
12-16-2004, 06:28 AM
I couldn't agree with you more. Whom in their right mind would believe that abortion should be used in place of birth control? I wonder, what kind of responsible Mothers you think those kind of women would make?

Personally, I think that people, both men and women, jump into bed together far too quickly, long before they have the opportunity to get to really know one another. I also think that women today suffer from very low self-esteem, since they have become so blase' about sex. In a perfect world, an unwanted pregnancy would be something that both parties could take responsibility for, but unfortunately, that is seldom the case. This ofcourse is the result of people having sex with one another when there is no emotional involvment between them. I think that is most unfortunate, but in todays society and economy, given the economic pressures many live with, and so few mothers at home with their children, and without fathers present to share the responsibility of them, and add to that what is available for the viewing by our kids on any given night, and the total lack of class and morals displayed by their so called "Star" heros, I don't see it changing much.

There are never any easy answers for these complex issues. But I, along with many of my male friends, do often find ourselves asking ourselves what is wrong with men? Pedafellia seems rampant, death row is not populated by a majority of women. Abandoned children are mostly abandoned by their fathers, always have been. Violence seems to be a desease of the male species much more so than feemale. All men are not like this, but no one can deny, the majority of our most serious law breakers are men, and particularly so in the violent and sexual crimes. I don't hate all men because of it, infact most of my closest friends truly are men, I just don't understand it.

Gayle

Gayle in MD
12-16-2004, 06:42 AM
I knew that sweetie, and I have always liked you.

Love,
GAyle /ccboard/images/graemlins/smile.gif

Gayle in MD
12-16-2004, 06:49 AM
You are most welcome friend. I am SOOOOOOOOOOO in agreement with everything you have written. I notice none of the right wingers here have taken any notice of Juliani's (sp) mistress, and how bout this NY chief and his illegal alien housekeeper, and his two mistresses, and there is a long list of other infractions now surfacing. If he were a democrat, they'd all be beating their breasts with indignation, LOL.

Sadly, is it our kids and grandkids that will pay the price for Bush's policies and corruption.

Gayle in Md.

eg8r
12-16-2004, 06:50 AM
[ QUOTE ]
I think that is most unfortunate, but in todays society and economy, given the economic pressures many live with, and so few mothers at home with their children, and without fathers present to share the responsibility of them, and add to that what is available for the viewing by our kids on any given night, and the total lack of class and morals displayed by their so called "Star" heros, I don't see it changing much.
<hr /></blockquote> Many times over Shaq has referred to his "baby's mother". It is sad, and as you know, "stars" are not the only ones doing it. I think this low morality and acceptance of sex in everything is part of what has driven the FCC over the edge.

There are plenty of single fathers taking care of their children because of the deadbeat moms who have left. This does hit real close to home. My sister is one of these deadbeat moms who has left more than one family. She used to hang out with a couple of other lowlife women who have done the same.

eg8r

Gayle in MD
12-16-2004, 06:56 AM
LOL, I always knew my hubby was a true hunk! Thanks for reminding me how lucky I am, LOL.

eg8r
12-16-2004, 07:00 AM
[ QUOTE ]
You are most welcome friend. I am SOOOOOOOOOOO in agreement with everything you have written. I notice none of the right wingers here have taken any notice of Juliani's (sp) mistress, and how bout this NY chief and his illegal alien housekeeper, and his two mistresses, and there is a long list of other infractions now surfacing. If he were a democrat, they'd all be beating their breasts with indignation, LOL.

Sadly, is it our kids and grandkids that will pay the price for Bush's policies and corruption.
<hr /></blockquote> You are right, it is Bush's policies and corruption that drove these two men to do what they have done. Bush's policies and corruption are what drove this police chief to be the jerk he has turned out to be.

Whereas at the same time, are we all giggly with pride for the wonderful American Clinton let out of jail. What a stand up American Marc Rich has turned out to be.

You are blasting Reps for not slamming these two guys, when at the same time there is a much larger issue at hand and you are keeping quiet about it. I will tell you with all honesty, I think the Marc Rich story is much bigger as far as the world is concerned.

The way the world views us seems to be top priority in all the Dems minds, Dems cannot do anything unless they have passed the world test, however, right here on this board the Dems have been quite hush hush about this wonderful patriot whom Clinton let go free.

eg8r &lt;~~~believes all politicians have skeletons deep in their closets

Wally_in_Cincy
12-16-2004, 07:00 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote eg8r:</font><hr> Many times over Shaq has referred to his "baby's mother". <hr /></blockquote>

"She my baby's mama" is a phrase I hear all too often and it makes me cringe.

I guess Jesse and Kwese Mfume can't preach against the real reason for the breakdown of urban America (out-of-wedlock births) since they are guilty of the same.

eg8r
12-16-2004, 07:02 AM
[ QUOTE ]
"She my baby's mama" is a phrase I hear all too often and it makes me cringe.

I guess Jesse and Kwese Mfume can't preach against the real reason for the breakdown of urban America (out-of-wedlock births) since they are guilty of the same. <hr /></blockquote> Never fear, Bill Cosby is doing a fine job. /ccboard/images/graemlins/smile.gif I wish he would do a few more interviews.

eg8r

Gayle in MD
12-16-2004, 07:02 AM
Vintage Walley!

Wally_in_Cincy
12-16-2004, 07:03 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote eg8r:</font><hr>

...we all giggly with pride for the wonderful American Clinton let out of jail. What a stand up American Marc Rich has turned out to be.

<hr /></blockquote>

don't forget the Puerto Rican terrorists the Clintons let out.

Gayle in MD
12-16-2004, 07:14 AM
LOL, Don't worry Barbara, I'm having some fun here, and notice, neither of them has any answers for my very pointed questions. They're just ol' blow hards, frustrated mouse potatoes who can't get any, oh, never mind, lol.

Gayle in Md. /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif

Gayle in MD
12-16-2004, 07:42 AM
I don't agree with you Ed. If they were acting in an adult manner, there wouldn't be an unwanted pregnancy in the first place. Let's face it Ed, there are a lot of folks out there who don't use good judgment period, about anything. Also, we have kids out there growing up with little or no parental guidence, who come home to an empty house everyday, half the time with one parent to care for them, usually the mother, who is struggling to put food on the table and raise her kids alone. Add to that the sex saturated society they are growing up in and you have a recipe for disaster.

Now don't try to tell me that religeon is the answer because we already know that eighty percent of the young folks who commit to selibacy become sexualy active within the first year.

While I admit to jokingly throwing out some extreme suggestions for solving the problem, ie. mandatory vascetomy, lol, nevertheless, we have a society that is not only neglecting responsibility for our existing children, but failing to be responsibile for avoiding unwanted pregnancies. Abortion, while certainly nt a perfect solution, has been around forever. Women who do not want to bring a chilod into the world, for whatever the reasons, are always going to try to abort, always have, always will. The question is, therefore, how will they go about it?

I'm all ears friend...

Gayle

Wally_in_Cincy
12-16-2004, 07:46 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Gayle in MD:</font><hr> LOL, Don't worry Barbara, I'm having some fun here, and notice, neither of them has any answers for my very pointed questions. <hr /></blockquote>

Well ask a question instead of spouting hatred of Bush.

<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Gayle in MD:</font><hr> They're just ol' blow hards, frustrated mouse potatoes who can't get any, oh, never mind, lol.

Gayle in Md. /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif <hr /></blockquote>

whatever

Wally_in_Cincy
12-16-2004, 07:48 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Gayle in MD:</font><hr>
Now don't try to tell me that religeon is the answer because we already know that eighty percent of the young folks who commit to celibacy become sexualy active within the first year.

<hr /></blockquote>

That's an interesting statistic. Where did you hear that?

eg8r
12-16-2004, 08:02 AM
I believe having sex is an adult activity. So once again, you have 2 irresponsible adults acting in a very adult manner and want the quick way out. I am willing to bet that in the majority of these instances, both were consenting. I am also going to go out on a limb and bet a man and woman were involved, I point this out since the majority of your posts cast blame on the male only. Both the woman and the man were irresponsible, and the quick way out is too often abortion.

I don't really believe you are truly all ears because you have formed your own opinion on the situation and that includes the reasoning that men are the only ones at fault. Well, with that reasoning it is hard to offer anything else, what would be the point to speak knowing it would fall on deaf ears.

Personally I think the court system has also had a part in this problem. If the court system would come down harder on first time offenders (dead beat parents who do not help support) then it would curb a lot of future instances. I believe at the first bit of evidence in which a dead beat dad or mom quits paying for the support, then their wages should be garnished immediately. My dead beat sister owes close to $8k in back child support. The courts did nothing to her. Her offer to the judge was, why don't you let me take the girl and he take the boy and eliminate all back child support. What craziness is this. The judge told her no, but then did not levy any punishment on her. Basically a waste of tax payer money and a waste of money to my bro-in-law's lawyer (no need to mention my deadbeat sis has a court appointed waste of life lawyer).

eg8r

Gayle in MD
12-16-2004, 09:44 AM
Ed, you'll notice if you take a second look at my post that my reference to Bush's policies are in a separate paragraph.

I totally agree that Clinton was wrong to pardon Marc Rich BTW.

I don't like corruption no matter with which party one is affiliated.

I'm not sure all politians have skeletons, I think there are some who are faithful in their marriages, and honorable in their intentions if truth be known. Jimmy Carter comes to mind, for one. Reagen was basically a good man IMO. Unfortunately though, there are plenty of crooks to go aroung in Washington.
Gayle

Gayle in MD
12-16-2004, 09:49 AM
Believe it or not, LOL, I agree with everything you write here, but may I ask, just curious, how many is "Quite a few?"

Gayle

SpiderMan
12-16-2004, 12:12 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Deeman2:</font><hr> <blockquote><font class="small">Quote SpiderMan:</font><hr> Dee,

I predict that Gayle is unlikely to respond to this post:

<hr /></blockquote>

Spiderman,

You must be a Jean Dixon! Well. she might respond, but never to the points made. Hey. it's all good. I like open, two sided debate. I can't deal as well with one sided stuff anyway. I want someone to change my mind, if they can, with arguments and open discussion. That's the reason I never cross swords with SF, SPetty and you!!!!

Deeman
wishes he was as wise as he thinks he is.....

Deeman <hr /></blockquote>

Looks like I'm on track for a pretty good guess!

SpiderMan