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hhilario
12-10-2004, 07:51 AM
Im wondering, what's happened with the men tour that I remember existed (PBT, Camel, PCA, etc.) I've been out of the pool world for the last couple of years and many things have changed (way too many). Also, where is a good source (besides UPA) to now the current standings of the players, webpages, etc.

Jude_Rosenstock
12-10-2004, 08:10 AM
Unfortunately, there is nothing quite as glamorous as The Camel Pro Tour anymore. The UPA and WPA are probably the largest and most popular at this point but a significant portion of the events nowadays are independently run or are the premier events of regional tours (ie., Joss NE Tour, Florida Tour). I have been hearing more lately about this North American Open Tour but cannot give any additional information other than how they had a solid event last month.


Jude M. Rosenstock

Tom_In_Cincy
12-10-2004, 08:45 AM
Jude_Rosenstock worte;
[ QUOTE ]
I have been hearing more lately about this North American Open Tour but cannot give any additional information other than how they had a solid event last month. <hr /></blockquote>

Although I would hesitate to call 43 players in the inagural event a 'solid' start, the North American Open tour does have promise. And two well known players walked out in the middle of their match.

Maybe, it's just a sign of things to come.

Popcorn
12-10-2004, 08:51 AM
quote
"Maybe, it's just a sign of things to come."

It's a sign of being short sighted. Pool players have always been their own worst enemies.

Tom_In_Cincy
12-10-2004, 09:58 AM
You're correct,

Just recently, a somewhat well known pool player said, that their only job was to 'show up' well, I guess some of these professional pool players are on welfare, because they are out of a job and not 'showing up'.

cueball1950
12-10-2004, 07:24 PM
I will answer your question with the answer i got from Alan Hopkins gave me when i posed the same question to him at the last U.S.Open 14.1 that was held in NYC. His quote is simple. The mens tour "SELF DESTRUCTED"..Take it for what ever it is worth. But i don't think you will find a more honest answer..................................mike

Cueless Joey
12-10-2004, 07:30 PM
Don Corleone Mackey and his henchmen killed it.

Harold Acosta
12-10-2004, 08:14 PM
Greeting from Puerto Rico Hilario!

To keep yourself up to date on what is going on in Mens Pool, you may want to save these links in your computer:

www.azbilliards.com (http://www.azbilliards.com)
www.billiardsdigest.com (http://www.billiardsdigest.com)
www.insidepool.com (http://www.insidepool.com)
www.americancuesports.org (http://www.americancuesports.org)
www.geocities.com/nlrv018/user.html (http://www.geocities.com/nlrv018/user.html)
www.poolinaruba.com (http://www.poolinaruba.com)
www.febiko.com (http://www.febiko.com)
www.cpbillar.org (http://www.cpbillar.org)
www.bca-pool.com (http://www.bca-pool.com)
www.wpapool.com (http://www.wpapool.com)
www.billarama.net (http://www.billarama.net)
www.poolunlimited.com/Principal.html (http://www.poolunlimited.com/Principal.html)
www.ogreen.com (http://www.ogreen.com)
www.poolplayers.com (http://www.poolplayers.com)
http://www.geocities.com/pool4christ/cppa.html

These are some sites I thought you might be interested in visiting. Some of the sites are in the Caribbean Area so you can get acquainted with the Latin Players in Central and South America.

Just send me an email, or private message through this forum for any other questions you may have.

Feliz Navidad y Prospero Aņo Nuevo!


Harold Acosta - President
Puerto Rican Billiard Federation

recoveryjones
12-11-2004, 12:44 AM
Thanks for the links Harold, much appreciated. RJ

Vagabond
12-11-2004, 07:52 AM
Infact pro pool has really flourished during Don Mackey.Yes pro pool players are self destructive because of their short sightedness,suspeciousness and jealousy of other players. /ccboard/images/graemlins/frown.gif
Vagabond

Cueless Joey
12-11-2004, 10:11 AM
The year before Mackey killed the ESPN deal, the US Open finals was broadcasted on ESPN live.
Mackey killed the ESPN deal and it went downhill from there.
The other players who were in cohoots with Mackey are just as guilty imo.
Mackey even sued Camel and won. But, where's the money?

Paul_Mon
12-11-2004, 11:15 AM
Wow. Where have you been Humberto? I thought of you many times with all the huricanes this past fall. Glad to see you back posting.

Paul Mon

Vagabond
12-12-2004, 07:35 AM
Hi Joey,
What Don Mackey told me was that he did not want ESPN to make pro pool look like a ``gong show`` and he did not want ESPN to take advantage the pro pool and players.Joey,Don did lot of good things but also did some unpopular things.Cheers
Vagabond /ccboard/images/graemlins/cool.gif

Popcorn
12-12-2004, 08:13 AM
I agree, he turned nothing into something and that sometimes takes someone who doesn't worry about being popular. It reminds me of the old Lawrence Welk show. At the time people who worked for him were always saying how he took advantage of them and held some of them back. Welk had a plan for his show that he said would benefit everyone who stuck with him. Well, here all these years later even with Welk long gone they are still benefiting from what he put together and ran with an iron fist. He was right and saw things in the long run. Pool has never had anyone like that. Pool is always some fast buck kind of thing with no organization and a bunch of malcontents wondering what is in it for them today, never farsighted. I don't know all the details what happened with Mackey, but good or bad I do know no one else picked up where he left off.

Cueless Joey
12-12-2004, 11:47 AM
Well, CJ Wiley went ahead and came up with a field to do the Gong Show on ESPN. It wasn't all that bad. At least the players got a little exposure.
But, Don has some explaining to do why a ton of players are still owed money to this day. What happened to the money Mackey won from Camel?
I saw Don Mackey's onw version of the carnival at the Riviera Hotel '96 and '97. His own people were scalping tickets outside for the finals. Pretty pathetic.
Who would want to sponsor the men's pro-tour now? Not after PBT collapsed and Camel got sued.
Not after the PBT's accounting company went bankrupt and all the money went to Keyser Soze.

Vagabond
12-13-2004, 07:20 AM
Hi Joey,
I do not have major disagreements with you or others on some of those matters.Let us be realistic and fair.Pro Tour never paid salary to Don.Was the tour and it`s players expecting Don to be a volunteer/Slave/philanthropist/Stupid?My position always has been:God only knows what happened to all that money,he did really made pro pool flourish during his time.BTW I did not know about the scalping of tickets in that tournament.
Cheers
Vagabond

Vagabond
12-13-2004, 07:24 AM
Hi Popcorn,
U articulated much better than I could.Cheers
Vagabond /ccboard/images/graemlins/cool.gif

Popcorn
12-13-2004, 07:38 AM
I know of one incident (Mackey tournament), personally where the sponsor just plain refused to pay the money. I was at the tournament and the sponsor was sitting only a few seats away from me during one of the sessions. The place was empty and there was no media at all, (Local TV or news papers), except the espn broadcast, that never even mentioned his company even once. As a sponsor he felt he had been sold a bill of good as to the value to him of being a sponsor and just didn't pay. He felt he had been lied to. This would have been Mackey's fault if he mislead the sponsor, but his intent was to bring in the money to the tournament, he may have gone about it in the wrong way though. Promoters do this all the time to the local rooms even guys like Tommy Kennedy. The room owner takes a bath often not realizing how bad it may be. I have seen small room owners lose thousands they could not afford hosting tournaments.