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ceebee
12-11-2004, 11:28 AM
Myself, 2 Professional Players, 3 owners of large Pool Rooms and 2 Pool School Owners are structuring the framework to launch a national association.

The national association would have;

a database of players & their handicap speed

Tournament listings & Winners

Standardized Rules (Adopt BCA ???)

Nationwide Alert System for STOLEN PROPERTY. Reward paid by the Association and/or owner

Nationwide Classifieds for equipment (bye-bye eBay)

This would be an association of poolroom owners, associate membership could be players and equipment manufacturers.

PQQLK9
12-11-2004, 11:34 AM
I think you might be on to something.

pooltchr
12-11-2004, 06:59 PM
Is there a reason you didn't disclose who the others are who are involved? I have been looking for someone to do the national database, but the problem is how to rank the players. Have you developed a rating system? How would it work for players who don't play in regional tours? Are you going to include local independent tournament results?
I'm not being difficult here. I am very interested and just trying to get some details.
If you don't want to post a response, you can PM me.
Thanks
Steve

cueball1950
12-11-2004, 11:56 PM
If this is an honest attempt(what i mean is something that is not all talk) to put something together i would try to get all the independant tour promoters,,,mike Zuglan,,Tommy Kennedy, Mr Janis(forgot his first name) and get all of them on board. This way you could do a national points system based on where players finished in their tournaments. What the rooms that have handicap tournaments... Get some room ownwers involved also. Don't do it just for the men, also include the women. There are alot of LADIES that can play but don't get a chance to play on any tour. maybe once a year you could also do a regional tournament as a qualifier to a national event that people could go to. I would go along with the BCA rules. They have worked this long..jmho,,, and my personal thoughts...mike

ceebee
12-12-2004, 11:31 AM
Gentlemen & Ladies, this is an honest effort to bring the Poolrooms of America together.

Scenario A - If JJ shows up looking for a game and he has an up to date NPA Card, with a rated speed of 7, your poolroom owner will know how you and JJ are supposed to match up.

Scenario B - JJ shows up to play in a local tournament, with a nice prize, if JJ has a NPA card, the poolroom owner will know where to put JJ in the handicap schema.

Scenario C - JJ shows up with a great Sledgehammer Cue & a $1500 Schon that was stolen last week in Podunk, HI. The poolroom operator and probably a dozen players will spot it, & you the victim of theft will get your cues back.

Scenario D - You have a nice Pool Cue or Pool Table to buy or sell. No junk is allowed, let ebay have the junk. If you are a member, your fee is ZERO, ZIP, NADA, ZILCH. The NPA works with an escrow, so no one gets disappointed. Pool Cue makers, Case makers & Table makers, that belong as an associated member, can advertise in their online stores, for very minimal fees. The Pool Players will benefit from this professional association. The players will be able to find league play, tournament play and equipment. Maybe even 2 National Tournaments will be held, East & West....

The scenarios go on and on and on. This is this age of communication, people can take advantage of it and prosper in many ways or NO...

The dues of $25.00 a year, from the poolrooms & sportsbars across America, can generate a BIG National Tournament, a great website for Billiards, a great Tournament calendar and lots of other benefits as well.

This can't be done without help from Pool Players across America, to notify their local Pool Room owner or Sports Bar owner. It's up to you players across America to aid in the start up of this Association, you are the ones that will benefit from this association.

Popcorn
12-12-2004, 05:02 PM
I wrote something on a similar line about a month ago.
http://www.billiardsdigest.com/ccboard/showthreaded.php?Cat=&Board=ccb&Number=166439&Foru m=All_Forums&Words=Popcorn&Match=Username&Searchpa ge=3&Limit=25&Old=allposts&Main=166439&Search=true #Post166439

dg-in-centralpa
12-12-2004, 05:30 PM
Interesting concept. Who are the pros giving their support? You should have a meeting of the minds with the promoters and get them all on board to devise a rating system.

DG - best of luck to you

DickLeonard
12-16-2004, 07:53 PM
Popcorn the Pro Golfers are the perfect organization to copy to date the have raised 900,000,000 for charities while making 3 billion for themselves and poolplayers are still in the dark. ####

candyman74
12-16-2004, 08:49 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote ceebee:</font><hr> Gentlemen &amp; Ladies, this is an honest effort to bring the Poolrooms of America together.

Scenario A - If JJ shows up looking for a game and he has an up to date NPA Card, with a rated speed of 7, your poolroom owner will know how you and JJ are supposed to match up.

Scenario B - JJ shows up to play in a local tournament, with a nice prize, if JJ has a NPA card, the poolroom owner will know where to put JJ in the handicap schema.

Scenario C - JJ shows up with a great Sledgehammer Cue &amp; a $1500 Schon that was stolen last week in Podunk, HI. The poolroom operator and probably a dozen players will spot it, &amp; you the victim of theft will get your cues back.

Scenario D - You have a nice Pool Cue or Pool Table to buy or sell. No junk is allowed, let ebay have the junk. If you are a member, your fee is ZERO, ZIP, NADA, ZILCH. The NPA works with an escrow, so no one gets disappointed. Pool Cue makers, Case makers &amp; Table makers, that belong as an associated member, can advertise in their online stores, for very minimal fees. The Pool Players will benefit from this professional association. The players will be able to find league play, tournament play and equipment. Maybe even 2 National Tournaments will be held, East &amp; West....

The scenarios go on and on and on. This is this age of communication, people can take advantage of it and prosper in many ways or NO...

The dues of $25.00 a year, from the poolrooms &amp; sportsbars across America, can generate a BIG National Tournament, a great website for Billiards, a great Tournament calendar and lots of other benefits as well.

This can't be done without help from Pool Players across America, to notify their local Pool Room owner or Sports Bar owner. It's up to you players across America to aid in the start up of this Association, you are the ones that will benefit from this association. <hr /></blockquote>


Love this idea!!! I am starting up a billiard cafe in Ohio right now and would love to become part of an organization like this. I also am an avid tourny player and would like to see something like this implemented. Keep the updates about this coming. Matt

Scott Lee
12-16-2004, 11:49 PM
ceebee...This sounds like a great idea! I'd like to be involved too!

Scott Lee

Brad
12-17-2004, 06:57 AM
Can you say Don Mackey?

Chopstick
12-17-2004, 07:14 AM
Count me in. Grady has talked to me about this sort of thing before. I think he might like to go along as well.

Popcorn
12-17-2004, 09:18 AM
What would be the mission statement for such an organization? I.E. the promotion and positive public exposure of pool, promote tournaments and so on. Your list of things that you would like to do is interesting, but not the kind of stuff that will put money in the room owners pockets. The last time something like this was tried, the guy trying to do it actually spent thousands of dollars and even went on the road personally visiting rooms to try to get them to join but it failed. Pool is an industry and until you can show someone on paper how they will benefit, (make some money) they will not be interested.

Your numbers seem a little low also. At $25.00 a member and if you are depending on this to be your main operating money for what you want to do. Even with thousands of members you won't have enough money to do anything. It has to be set up to be self supporting and not depend on the dues for all it's money. It needs to be a business a business that will require someone's full time and attention, they will need to be compensated properly as well. I don't want to hear you are doing this for the love of the game because anytime you do something for nothing you are destine to fail. Also are you guys putting in some seed capital? It will take quit a bit to get this from the idea stage to the real thing. Initially you will get very few members, yet you will have to show some results right away if you want to get more. An inaugural tournament for example, but it takes money. Unless you guys are willing to kick in, and maybe you are, a good amount of seed money, it may be very tough to have this be little more then a pipe dream.

I will just throw this out and have not looked into it at all but it is not out of the realm of possibility. You may actually be able to get a government grant to start such an organization. My sister in law owns a business where she sets up no profit organizations and get them government grants. Setting up as a non profit organization may be the way to go and it does not mean you are working for nothing and may offer you all kinds of benefits that may help you actually get this off the ground. The term "Not for profit" sounds good also. I am just playing devils advocate and not trying to discourage you at all. I will join even if you are just starting out but you can't just depend on people like me and others on the board. Anyway, Good luck. I'm also in the process of a project I haven't mentioned that will be of a small benefit to pool but mostly it will benefit me. For a clue think QVC and Esteban I hope you will be seeing it start around June. Been working on this for almost a year.

ceebee
12-17-2004, 11:31 AM
Popcorn, thanks for your ideas and a great big thanks for the grant idea.

Being the Devil's Advocate isn't always being the bad guy. Two heads are better than one &amp; 300 is better yet. My idea of a national association is to benefit the players first, the pool room owners secondly &amp; the balance of the participants thirdly.

The Pool Room operator will benefit directly and directly from belonging to a national association. Instant website advertising to local players and advertising to any traveling or vacationing players. Equipment sales and or Instruction info will be available. Local District and regional qualifiers for a national amatuer tournament.

With a national (actually the database would really be international database) website for tournament listings, equipment sales, Pool Schools &amp; Instructors, the players across the nation would have lots of helpful information at their immediate fingertips.

If the CLUB ever gets going, the initial membership will aid in it's growth and the generated interest will awake others to join too.

I can see paid attendance to Invitational Matches springing up all over the country. Big Rooms could invite 6 of the top players for RING GAMEs. Paid attendance would generate some monies for the room owner's invatational fees.

The structure of the program is still under construction. Lots of ideas are already on the table, but lots of ideas will come from you folks here on the CCB.

Offering membership to a Pool Room or a Sports Bar that competes in League Programs, but doesn't have a computer, can't be costly. Their communication link would probably be a local patron. They would however get a monthly magazine if they subcribed.

The benefit to the proprietor is that he has Tournament Info avaiable. Pre-tournament info helps the room owner schedule tournament dates that will not conflict with other regional tournaments. The proprietor might establish a pool equipment store, to sell merchandise, cue repair or table repair. A national database has to be better than the local Yellow Pages. The unfortunate pool room owner that suffers a break-in might be glad they have a membership to a national organization that will broadcast their losses on a national level.

The $25 figure might be too low, maybe that will be the number for the associate memberships (Players). All of the specifics are being worked on. Imagine having $25 come in from every pool room in America, plus monies from cuemakers, case makers, table makers, repairmen, magazines &amp; players that wanted to be invloved.. Would that would be a great start or no...????????

The voting membership would be the pool room owners, the non-voting membership would the pool product makers and league operators. The associate membership would be the players.

Most of the initial membership will be assembled with the help of pool players across the country that want their local pool room to become a member. There are databases with poolrooms listed and that is a good source for generating initial membership too.

My assistants on this project &amp; I are not going to invest a boatload of money to get this program going. The invitations will be sent out to the different organizations, the membership money will be held in escrow until the membership is founded. If the membership does not jell... all the money will be refunded minus .50 cents for an envelope and a .37 cent U. S. Postage Stamp.

ceebee
12-17-2004, 11:46 AM
the reason the other players are not listed is this. I am the one that opted to get all the egg on my face if this project turned sour or failed.

There are several ways of ranking a player's ability and hopefully the NPA's National Ranking will be adopted across the country. The NPA's ranking will be a culmination of the other systems in place today. The final system will be voted into place.

Hopefully local tournament results will be rolled up into a regional result, then into a State result, and on to a National database.

The golfers on the CCB all know about USGA Handicap cards, that will be a goal of the NPA, the goal being to level the playing field across the nation. If you do not have a USGA card, you can't play in many tournaments. The local individual is held accountable for the ratings being honest.

Hopefully a national database will inter sandbaggers into their local compost piles...

Bob_Jewett
12-17-2004, 01:43 PM
I think you will find the interview with the bowling guy in the issue of BD with Jennifer Barretta on the cover essential to your work. He makes some very interesting observations about player involvement.

Zims_Rack
12-17-2004, 02:48 PM
CeeBee- Count me in as a cue sales, cue repair and BSACA Certified Instructor. Email me your otline (game plan).
Thanks,
Zim