12-11-2004, 12:16 PM
OK Folks..Hope I'm Not Bugging Any of you, repeatedly bringing my Pool Shootin' Questions to you Guys, Since I've discovered this board?? I THINK That it's part of what it's for. Anyway..I'll further update you on where I am in my Pool Shootin' Life, and then ask for some advice. I've been shootin' for 40 Years and pretty much was somewhat of a "natural" at it, like I KNOW a lot of you were. I Never took it seriously, Playing to win 30 Years of Free Beers, and make a Few Bucks here and there. A few years ago when I was looking for something to do Recreationaly, to balance my life out, I Discovered the "Underground" Pool Stootin' Scene and the Guys who shoot almost Nightly Tournaments here at one Bar or Another in the Spokane, Wa Area. I Didn't even realize that this was going on..Guess I wasn't paying attention. I THEN said to myself..I think I'll put in a Years time, getting my feet wet, and find out how good I can get playing against these guys in as many tournaments in One Years Time as I can fit in. So..Between Feb 15th 2003 and Feb 15th 2004, I played in 181 Local Bar Tournaments! I Finished in the Money 55 Times and "Grossed" Just over $2000. Not Great, by Any Means, but Good Enough to figure I could shoot with the Big Dogs, and not make an Idiot out of myself, If I further Pursued this and it WAS a BLAST in the Meantime. I was holding my Own against the Top 10 Around here, and many of the guys I considered better than me when I started, I passed by. As I type this, a 575 sq' Pool Room Addition is being built onto my house that will be completed in the next 2 Weeks or so, after the project began on August 1st. I'm having a brand new 9' Gold Crown IV Delivered on the 21st. SO...I'm WAY Out of Practice, having played a Grand Total of 4 Times in the last 6 Months. One of those times was yesterday..and and old Nemisis Was Front and Center with me...MISSCUING. I MISSCUED 4 Games away at critical moments AND Shot the Wrong Ball tied at 9 Games each, but THATS Another Story. I ended up losing to a VERY Good Friend of mine for the 1st Time EVER in a Match to 11...11/9. Anyway..This Misscuing is Driving me NUTS!! I've Tried EVERYTHING. I've read Articles...I used Every kind of tip you can Imagine and I'm STILL Having Problems. Not only that..but it seems to run in Bunches??? I use a Lot of English and DO Get pretty far out to the edge of the ball. I've read where this isn't as critical as I think, but I just can't seem to get the same results, NOT Getting way out there on a lot of shots. Hence..I Misscue a LOT. What do YOU Guys Do???? What is the BEST Advice here for the Combination of Tips and ways for it to hold Chalk. One time Yesterday..I misscued..Beat the Hell out of my Tip with a Tapper..spent 2 Minutes Chalking my Stick...Got up and Misscued the VERY NEXT SHOT!!! What the HELL is going on HERE!!!!!! I Am Using a Hard Tip right now usualy, but can't remember which one I put on, so can't tell you that. Naturaly, Once I START Misscuing..I can't get it out of my Head and it basically amounts to Sharking Myself!...I don't NEED Anything ELSE to think about when I'm playin other than the task at hand...Geezzzzz...I'd like to hear what you Guys have found to be the Best Tip Setup for Misscuing the Least. AND I'd Love to hear someones Reasoning that you can get the same result using a lot less english on the ball..when it just doens't work out that way with ME...I sometimes feel like theres something real obvious right in front of me that I can't figure out! I've seen a Lot of people get futher out to the edge than me and get Great English on the Ball, practicaly making it dance, and I can do that sometimes myself..but OFTEN the result is a Misscue...Hope you're all doing Great...You Guys are a TON of help and I've taken ALL of your Opinions into consideration...which for openers, resulted in me spening that much for a new Gold Crown...Thank God for Credit!..All the Best, Nick..:)

12-11-2004, 07:10 PM
When you say you use lots of english, to you mean use it often, or at the far edges of the cue ball. It's possible you aren't making contact where you THINK you are making contact. Get one of those training balls (The Jim Rempe is a good one) where you can check to see if the chalk mark is where you think/thought you were going to make contact.
You might also be trying to get too far out from center. You don't need to be 5 tips out to put spin on the ball. With the proper speed and stroke, you can get all the spin you will ever need staying within about the radius of a quarter from a center ball hit.
If you feel you need that much english, maybe you could focus on better cue ball control to give yourself shots where a more natural roll would get you shape.
The more english you use, the more variables you introduce into the shot, and the more potential you have for problems to pop up.

12-11-2004, 07:23 PM
To minimize miscues you may want to consider any combination of the following:
Try a larger diameter tip, ferrule, and shaft.
Try a different type of tip.
Improve or change the mechanics of your stroke.
Use less extreme English.
Chalk and maintain your tip.
And here's an oldie but goodie... after getting a new tip or shaping it, turn your cue upside down, perfectly vertical, and tap the tip several times just using the weight of the cue onto a hard floor. Don't ask me why this helps... it just does. /ccboard/images/graemlins/wink.gif

12-11-2004, 07:32 PM
I think you need to go back and work on your fundamentals. Try to get some professional instruction that includes videotaping. Barring that, setup a tripod and videotape yourself. Pay attention to your stance, grip, pre-shot routine, stroke, and follow-through.

I laid off of pool for 15 years after playing pretty well for almost 20 years. I just couldn't seem to get my game back together. I met Scott Lee on this board and he spent an entire day (10+ hours) with me at my home working on fundamentals and drills. He pointed out that while I had a textbook stance and stroke, I had an unusually short swing path for such a tall guy (6'2) which prevented me from getting the follow-through I needed, which resulted in "poke" strokes and me shooting too hard trying to get CB action. Once he pointed that out and I watched the 8 hours of videotape he recorded, I was able to recognize the issue and adjust for it. My game really took off after that.

12-11-2004, 08:46 PM
I have a Moori 3 tip and was miscueing out of the ordinary the other day.My friend re-shaped my tip and Voila...end of my problems.If your tip has gone a little flat, you will not have enough tip contact on the ball when using english.

Also with my Moori, chalking up on EVERY shot is almost mandatory. With good shape and good chalk, the tip is awesome. Other than that, blame your stroke.RJ

12-11-2004, 08:53 PM
I can make 3 recommendations:

1) Play better angles. If you play angles and patterns better, you won't have to spin the ball that radically. I used to do the same thing - nuke the cueball with draw and left three or four rails. The simple solution is take the short, easy, natural route - play the rails and angles and finesse the cue ball - s m o o t h l y.

2) I switched back to an Elkmaster. These tips are way better than they used to be. At first it will be soft. I tap it hard with a file, shape it for a minutes, play it for awhile and keep working it until it's firm. Once it's shaped, there is little upkeep required. After a few months it will harden to the point of uselessness, and I replace it. I rarely miscue anymore. I'll scruff the tip right before an extreme shot - like a maximum draw shot.

3) The shape of the tip is critical. It must be rounded with no mushrooming at all. That really helps.


12-12-2004, 05:27 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote tateuts:</font><hr>
nuke the cueball with draw
<hr /></blockquote>

LOL!!!!! I gotta remember that one!! Next time I see someone hit a good shot with alot spin I'm gonna say 'nice nuke shot' lol

12-12-2004, 05:34 AM
The best advice I can give you is that when you are doing your practice strokes, make sure your cuetip is right up next to the cueball- as close as you can without your tip touching it. When your tip is at the cueball, make sure your stroking forearm is pointed directly at the floor, not in too much or not back to much, just right.

A problem that I used to have, and alot of people have, is that at the last split second right before they hit the cueball, their tip goes to a different spot than they are trying to hit. It is real easy to do this when you mark your tip too far from the cueball during your practice strokes.

To simplify this, if you are putting your tip right up ON the cueball, and your forearm is pointed directly towards the ground, and then you take a nice, slow, smooth backstroke, and a smooth forward stroke, how can you NOT hit where you intended? Try it, you might get good results.

12-12-2004, 11:35 AM
I too use a lot of spin on the cue ball. It is the way I learned, and after 30 years I can't play without putting something on the ball.
I too was on a terrible jag here lately, and it was something in the fundametal of my stroke. It was pointed out to me by a friend.
I was letting the cue "seesaw" instead of stroking, and making ball contact with it parallel to the table.
I took a couple days and did nothing but practice keeping the cue parallel to the table, and making a smooth solid stroke. It was like majic, as I started shooting like my old self.
I knew it was not equipment related since I have always used a hard tip (Killer), and always used a lot of english.
Usually when I start playing bad, miscueing, and the like, there is something basic that has changed in my set-up, stance, or stroke.
For me it usually boils down to the basics.

Cueless Joey
12-12-2004, 11:39 AM
I think most miscues are caused by the cast-iron elbow.
Either you loosend the elbow and drop it or let the cue go on the follow-through.
Do a test shoot and then stop at the end of the stroke.
See how far your tip went through the cueball.

12-12-2004, 07:13 PM
You didnt say if it shows up more often with any certain type of english, this may give a little hint as to what is going on.

One thing to check is your grip pressure. As many have said you may not (probably not) be hitting the cueball where you think you are, and this can often be caused by tightening your grip right before impact. As one of the posters already suggested, get a training ball (Rempe or Elephant) or use the nine ball and set the nine facing up so you know up from down and see if you hit the center consistently.

01-01-2005, 09:52 AM
Try practicing with the 9 ball as the cue ball ( one of the specialty training balls). Clean the ball, rough up the cue tip, and put a lot of chalk on your tip. Practice draw or side spin shots. Pick up the 9 ball (your cue ball) and locate the chalk mark. You may be surprised to see the tip placement wandering all over the ball. Then work on consistency.
BTW - one theory of miscue is that the cue tip hit the table cloth before the cue ball.

Scott Lee
01-01-2005, 08:38 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote dave9ball:</font><hr> Try practicing with the 9 ball as the cue ball ( one of the specialty training balls). Clean the ball, rough up the cue tip, and put a lot of chalk on your tip. Practice draw or side spin shots. Pick up the 9 ball (your cue ball) and locate the chalk mark. You may be surprised to see the tip placement wandering all over the ball. Then work on consistency.
BTW - one theory of miscue is that the cue tip hit the table cloth before the cue ball. <hr /></blockquote>

Good advice Dave! I use the 9 or the 13, because the chalk mark shows up so clearly. BTW, that miscue theory is NOT theory! If the tip hits the cloth first, you WILL miscue! LOL /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif

To the poster: A lot of good advice here. However, your miscues have nothing to do with the kind of tip, size of tip, rough or smooth, or anything other than poor technique (which was addressed in a couple of other posts). I'll bet 10-1 that something in the way you address the CB and/or deliver through the CB, is the responsible culprit. I see this day in and day out...and it is easily fixed, with a little one-on-one instruction. PM or email me, if you are interested in some personal help.

Scott Lee

01-01-2005, 09:49 PM
I am not a teacher trainer nor do I have the experience of most who are offering advice. I have recently incorporated in my game extreme english,however ,this is always on short shots and I take care to not shoot too hard. If you try to juice it too hard you will miss cue. So having been away from the table for awhile you might have come back shooting a little harder. If you are not carrying your own chalk,and the chalk provided was not of quality you with you extreme english would suffer more than one who does not use as much english.