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View Full Version : Meucci cues good ? bad?



300Zhustler
12-13-2004, 10:32 PM
I am looking at buying a meucci 97-21b cue. Its 3 years old with a new tip on it i tried hitting with it and i liked how it felt. What are some pros and cons of meucci? and whats the different with the red dot shaft VS the white dot shaft?

Cueless Joey
12-14-2004, 12:21 AM
Biggest con?
Prone to breakage of parts.
Ask any repairman. What is the most commonly repaired major brand cue outside of Cuetec and imported cues?

One
12-14-2004, 01:11 AM
Meucci is the best because you can modify it. First get rid of the crap ferrule and get a Fiber or McDermott ferrule instead. It should be somewhere between 20-25 mm long depending on your shaft thickness.
Also get a Moori Quick or a Triangle cuetip.

My stock Meucci ferrule eventually cracked because it is so weak, and the "butt ring?" came loose so I had to glue it back on.

pooltchr
12-14-2004, 06:49 AM
Run your finger over the edge of the inlays. I would be willing to bet you will be able to feel the edge of the inlay somewhere on the cue.

eg8r
12-14-2004, 07:04 AM
That is the same cue I shoot with. I like it, but you will probably not find much love on this board for Meucci. /ccboard/images/graemlins/smile.gif

Not sure about the dots, I have never paid much attention to them. I got mine new and it came with 2 red dot shafts.

eg8r

eg8r
12-14-2004, 07:05 AM
I can feel the inlays all over my cue. /ccboard/images/graemlins/frown.gif It bugged me at first, but no more.

eg8r

DavidMorris
12-14-2004, 07:06 AM
I agree with the others (except One aka Patrick) that recent vintage Meucci's are of pretty mediocre quality.

Older pre-1990 Meucci Originals, however, were generally very well made. I have an 87 model Original with original shafts that is very nice, bought new in 1989. It's in pristine condition despite being dragged around the world in my Army days, and still shoots the lights out.

BTW there isn't a "white dot" shaft, unless you're talking about the "no dot" original Meucci shaft. The Red Dot shaft is an ordinary shaft with a red dot to indicate the "grain" of the wood. You hold the dot up to supposedly get a more consistent hit. The Black Dot shaft is a layered laminated shaft (as opposed to a radially laminated shaft like a 314) that was designed to reduce deflection, although IMO the 314 is much better at it.

eg8r
12-14-2004, 07:07 AM
[ QUOTE ]
Meucci is the best because you can modify it. First get rid of the crap ferrule and get a Fiber or McDermott ferrule instead. It should be somewhere between 20-25 mm long depending on your shaft thickness.
Also get a Moori Quick or a Triangle cuetip. <hr /></blockquote> As far as the modifications you mentioned, what is unique about Meucci and any other pool cue? /ccboard/images/graemlins/confused.gif

eg8r

One
12-14-2004, 11:32 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote eg8r:</font><hr><blockquote><font class="small">Quote One:</font><hr>
Meucci is the best because you can modify it. First get rid of the crap ferrule and get a Fiber or McDermott ferrule instead. It should be somewhere between 20-25 mm long depending on your shaft thickness.
Also get a Moori Quick or a Triangle cuetip. <hr /></blockquote> As far as the modifications you mentioned, what is unique about Meucci and any other pool cue? /ccboard/images/graemlins/confused.gif

eg8r <hr /></blockquote>

Meucci has softer and flexible wood so you get less deflection with it. Predator is bad because you can't sand the shaft down (hollow in the front).

A thinner shaft obviously gets more flexible, so even less deflection.

It is much easier to apply spin more accurately with a smaller tip. Read more here: http://poollogics.port5.com/articles/one/bestcue2004.htm

A snooker tapered shaft doesn't work good because it is not as consistent when applying spin, because the bridge needs to be the exact same length for every shot The follow through is also not exactly straight, which in most cases gives more margin for error because it doesn't trap the cueball as much, which is good. But the problem is that you can't control the follow through yourself.

tateuts
12-14-2004, 11:33 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote eg8r:</font><hr> I can feel the inlays all over my cue. /ccboard/images/graemlins/frown.gif It bugged me at first, but no more.

eg8r <hr /></blockquote>

Hi Gator,

I collect old Meucci's. Most of the time they can just be polished out. Often it's just glue lines you are feeling -they are hair thin but you can feel them pretty good. I spin the cue and use 600 wet until smooth - not very long, maybe 20 seconds at a time. When I can't feel the lines, then I just spin it slowly with a damp cloth and some polishing compound, then faster with a soft plain cloth held lightly. Main thing is to not heat it up with friction and buff through the clear or melt anything.

Chris

tateuts
12-14-2004, 11:47 AM
Since the cue is 3 years old and I assume straight, if the price is reasonable - say $300 or $350 - I would say you are safe buying it. That's all they wil resell for, so don't pay more.

The red dot shaft is just a mark made on the shaft that you are supposed to place the same way on every shot for consistency. The idea is that shafts flex differently in relation to how the grain is placed.

Meucci cues are made to facilitate high production in a cue with quite a bit of inlay work. They have a feel that I think is proprietary to Meucci, unlike any other cue really. I have Meucci's that are 20 years old - and the hit is the same as the cues they are putting out today - remarkably consistent from cue to cue.

They hit soft. This is because of the taper, wood to wood joint, and very thin soft ferrules and collars. All of this cushions the impact and softens the sound quite a bit.

If you decide to get this cue, I suggest storing it in a climate controlled office or house. A lot of Meucci's are abused because they are sold in the south with hot, humid summers and not kept in climate controlled environments.

Chris

Wally_in_Cincy
12-14-2004, 11:54 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote tateuts:</font><hr>
...A lot of Meucci's are abused because they are sold in the south with hot, humid summers and not kept in climate controlled environments.
<hr /></blockquote>

and around here a lot of them are bought by APA players who get drunk and leave them in the trunks of cars /ccboard/images/graemlins/smile.gif

Fred Agnir
12-14-2004, 12:16 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote One:</font><hr> Meucci has softer and flexible wood so you get less deflection with it.

A thinner shaft obviously gets more flexible, so even less deflection.<hr /></blockquote>You really don't have an understanding of physics.

Fred

DavidMorris
12-14-2004, 12:38 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Fred Agnir:</font><hr> <blockquote><font class="small">Quote One:</font><hr> Meucci has softer and flexible wood so you get less deflection with it.

A thinner shaft obviously gets more flexible, so even less deflection.<hr /></blockquote>You really don't have an understanding of physics.

Fred <hr /></blockquote>
LOL, Fred, I was waiting for somebody to comment on that -- I didn't bother calling him on it. But then again, Patrick defies the laws of physics on this planet, don't you realize that? /ccboard/images/graemlins/cool.gif

One
12-14-2004, 01:22 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Fred Agnir:</font><hr> <blockquote><font class="small">Quote One:</font><hr> Meucci has softer and flexible wood so you get less deflection with it.

A thinner shaft obviously gets more flexible, so even less deflection.<hr /></blockquote>You really don't have an understanding of physics.

Fred <hr /></blockquote>
What did I say wrong?

Cueless Joey
12-14-2004, 01:39 PM
I don't think you know what causes deflection at all.

One
12-14-2004, 02:00 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Cueless Joey:</font><hr> I don't think you know what causes deflection at all. <hr /></blockquote>
Deflection is when the cuestick pushes the cueball offline. With a softer and lighter shaft the shaft gets pushed offline instead of the cueball.

This was the first thing I learned when I was a beginner.

Fred Agnir
12-14-2004, 02:04 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote One:</font><hr> <blockquote><font class="small">Quote Fred Agnir:</font><hr> <blockquote><font class="small">Quote One:</font><hr> Meucci has softer and flexible wood so you get less deflection with it.

A thinner shaft obviously gets more flexible, so even less deflection.<hr /></blockquote>You really don't have an understanding of physics.

Fred <hr /></blockquote>
What did I say wrong?
<hr /></blockquote> So far, the understanding of cue ball deflection is based on a standard physical collision. Consult your books. There is no variable for stiffness or flexibility in the collision equations.

And of course, if your talking about the engineering term for "deflection," (bending) then a stiffer shaft has less deflection.

Fred

Cueless Joey
12-14-2004, 02:20 PM
[ QUOTE ]
Deflection is when the cuestick pushes the cueball offline. With a softer and lighter shaft the shaft gets pushed offline instead of the cueball.

This was the first thing I learned when I was a beginner <hr /></blockquote>
If this were 100$ true, billiard players will play with Meucci. Also, cuemakers would copy Meucci's taper.
Somehow, not too many makers copy Meucci's taper.

One
12-14-2004, 02:36 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Cueless Joey:</font><hr> &lt;/font&gt;&lt;blockquote&gt;&lt;font class="small"&gt;Quote:&lt;/font&gt;&lt;hr /&gt;
Deflection is when the cuestick pushes the cueball offline. With a softer and lighter shaft the shaft gets pushed offline instead of the cueball.

This was the first thing I learned when I was a beginner <hr /></blockquote>
If this were 100$ true, billiard players will play with Meucci. Also, cuemakers would copy Meucci's taper.
Somehow, not too many makers copy Meucci's taper. <hr /></blockquote>

Billiard players use softer wood cues. I have heard that a trick shot player uses a pear wood cue that is very soft.

My replacement shaft is 13 mm thickness and I get twice as much deflection from it that from my 11.8 mm shaft. The more I sanded the shaft down the less deflection I got, I often missed to the opposite side because of it.

In Virtual Pool 3 I used to get less deflection than in real pool, but now it is the opposite.

DavidMorris
12-14-2004, 04:07 PM
Patrick/One, "softer" wood and whippy shafts results in GREATER cue deflection. As Fred said, deflection is bending, and logic holds that a more flexible shaft will bend more.

Now, you seem to be referring to cue ball "deflection" a.k.a. squirt. Fred and Bob Jewett (both far more learned than I) argue convincingly that squirt is not affected as much by cue deflection as many of us have long believed, but rather by tip-end mass. Predators have a hollow section at the end of the shaft, resulting in lower mass, which is arguably the greater cause of their low-squirt characteristic than their radial laminations. You mention having installed lighter ferrules and reducing your shaft -- both of which could have resulted in reduced tip-end mass and thus reduced squirt.

But then again we're from Earth so what do we know...

David &lt;~~~~~ can't believe I'm arguing with Patrick

One
12-14-2004, 05:31 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote DavidMorris:</font><hr> Patrick/One, "softer" wood and whippy shafts results in GREATER cue deflection. As Fred said, deflection is bending, and logic holds that a more flexible shaft will bend more.

Now, you seem to be referring to cue ball "deflection" a.k.a. squirt. Fred and Bob Jewett (both far more learned than I) argue convincingly that squirt is not affected as much by cue deflection as many of us have long believed, but rather by tip-end mass. Predators have a hollow section at the end of the shaft, resulting in lower mass, which is arguably the greater cause of their low-squirt characteristic than their radial laminations. You mention having installed lighter ferrules and reducing your shaft -- both of which could have resulted in reduced tip-end mass and thus reduced squirt.

But then again we're from Earth so what do we know...

David &lt;~~~~~ can't believe I'm arguing with Patrick <hr /></blockquote>
I am talking about cueball deflection.

I replaced the plastic Meucci ferrule with something stronger and heavier, the ferrule is also shorter which is a reason why I get less deflection. A shorter tip gives less deflection too. For example 4mm tip thickness gave about 4 cm deflection on a whole length table with max sidespin, and 2mm tip thickness gave 2 cm deflection.

I used to get lot of deflection with the same cue, the only modification I did to it was make it thinner. This also made the shaft lighter which also is a reason why I get less deflection.

Because it is lighter it bends easier, so it is more flexible.

The tip and ferrule are hard materials, so the shorter and lighter they are, the less cueball deflection you will get.


Explanation

If you have a very light 1 piece cue, you will have an impact with the cueball and the WHOLE cue will move to the side if it is held loose. But if you have a 2 piece cue where it bends in the joint only the shaft will bend to the side, and the butt of the cue will stay in the same place if it is rigid. But if the 2 piece cue is completely stiff and you hold the butt rigid, the shaft will not bend sideways from the impact with the cueball. No matter how light it is. But if the weight of the cue is less than the weight of the cueball it can't push the cueball offline because the shaft bounches off the cueball backwards. If the cue is heavier than the cueball then the stiff 2 piece cue will push the cueball offline. Now if you have a flexible shaft it will bend sideways instead of push the cueball offline.

So you get less cueball deflection with a more flexible shaft, but the difference is not as big because humans can't hold butt tight enough.

pooltchr
12-14-2004, 06:55 PM
[quote=OneThe tip and ferrule are hard materials, so the shorter and lighter they are, the less cueball deflection you will get.

<hr /></blockquote>
Exactly, the lighter the tip and ferrule, the less deflection! Reduce the mass and reduce the weight and you get less deflection. This is what everyone is trying to tell you.

One
12-14-2004, 07:22 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote pooltchr:</font><hr> <blockquote><font class="small">Quote One:</font><hr>The tip and ferrule are hard materials, so the shorter and lighter they are, the less cueball deflection you will get.

<hr /></blockquote>
Exactly, the lighter the tip and ferrule, the less deflection! Reduce the mass and reduce the weight and you get less deflection. This is what everyone is trying to tell you. <hr /></blockquote>
Yes, but the softness of the shaft matters too, but not as much.

woody_968
12-14-2004, 07:27 PM
Like pooltchr said, its not because the lighter weight makes the shaft bend more, its because the lighter weight at the tip deflects the cueball less.

Changing to a heavier ferrule would actually make it deflect more, unless you made it so short that it weighed less than the light ferrule you removed.

I think you are REAL close to the right answer, but thinking about it in the wrong way /ccboard/images/graemlins/crazy.gif

One
12-14-2004, 07:53 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote woody_968:</font><hr> Like pooltchr said, its not because the lighter weight makes the shaft bend more, its because the lighter weight at the tip deflects the cueball less.

Changing to a heavier ferrule would actually make it deflect more, unless you made it so short that it weighed less than the light ferrule you removed.

I think you are REAL close to the right answer, but thinking about it in the wrong way /ccboard/images/graemlins/crazy.gif <hr /></blockquote>
The lighter the weight at the tip is, the more it can bend to the side instead of continue forwards.

If you have a complete stiff cue and a light tip, it will not have a chance to bend much sideways because the shaft doesn't bend.

If you have a very flexible shaft and add a 1 kg tip to it, it will also not bend sideways much because the extra weight makes the tip follow through the cueball after impact.

The tip and shaft also compress slightly.

So the best shaft is where you gradually make the front part of the shaft lighter and lighter, and the lightest part needs to be the tip.

tateuts
12-15-2004, 10:56 AM
One,

I haven't studied physics, but in practical applications, I know you can reduce squirt by tapering a shaft down to the tip in a "cone" shape. This is probably what you've done. It reduces the weight at the end of the shaft and also makes the shaft laterally stiffer.

Predator shafts are very stiff, yet they deflect the cue ball less than most conventional shafts.

Billiard players play with very stiff cues with strong conical tapers. The cue ball is big and heavy and has to be hit hard. That's also why their cues are so short. A short, thick cue with a conical taper is very stiff - not just on the shaft but on the whole cue. Cues flex at the joint too.

Just imagine trying to bend a nail versus trying to bend a spike. Even if they had the same mass, it's just distributed in a way that makes the spike much harder to bend.

Chris

Fred Agnir
12-15-2004, 11:13 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote One:</font><hr>


So you get less cueball deflection with a more flexible shaft, but the difference is not as big because humans can't hold butt tight enough.

<hr /></blockquote> Why would you hold the butt so tight?

Anyway, tape a couple of washers onto the ferrule. The shaft flexibility should be the same. Hit with side spin. Note the "deflection." Report your results here.

Fred

Eric.
12-15-2004, 12:55 PM
Hey, you know all too well that One is actually the Great Gadzoo, Uncle Martin and all knowing being known as P A T R I C K. Stop confusing him with the facts!


Eric &gt;One &amp; 1/2

poolplayer1988
12-15-2004, 05:31 PM
When I first started playing pool about 15 years ago, Meucci was THE thing to have. And back then they did hit magnificently (although with deflection, and that's a whole other thread). I loved my Meucci Originals, and played better with them back then than any other cue I ever touched. Nowadays, though, I like a steel-jointed cue with a stiffer hit, and the whippiness of the Meucci would take me forever to get used to again. So I say - Meucci Originals Good, New Meuccis Crap. Just my Opinion!

Doug T.

One
12-15-2004, 08:09 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Fred Agnir:</font><hr> <blockquote><font class="small">Quote One:</font><hr>


So you get less cueball deflection with a more flexible shaft, but the difference is not as big because humans can't hold butt tight enough.

<hr /></blockquote> Why would you hold the butt so tight?

Anyway, tape a couple of washers onto the ferrule. The shaft flexibility should be the same. Hit with side spin. Note the "deflection." Report your results here.

Fred <hr /></blockquote>
Nobody should hold the butt tight, you only need to use the muscles you need for the stroke. You need to isolate the important muscles and then you get better speed control, so a loose grip is needed. Other muscles should only be used to keep the body still.

The ferrule is stronger than wood so it doesn't bend sideways as much. When the wood in the shaft bends the ferrule follows, but not as much because the tip is pressing against the cueball.

300Zhustler
12-15-2004, 08:09 PM
Well thanks for all your input on this. I talked with some other people that i shoot with and they told me pretty much the same. They also said to go with predator or atleast a shaft. So i will keep thinking about it.

One
12-15-2004, 08:18 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote tateuts:</font><hr> One,

I haven't studied physics, but in practical applications, I know you can reduce squirt by tapering a shaft down to the tip in a "cone" shape. This is probably what you've done. It reduces the weight at the end of the shaft and also makes the shaft laterally stiffer.

Predator shafts are very stiff, yet they deflect the cue ball less than most conventional shafts.

Billiard players play with very stiff cues with strong conical tapers. The cue ball is big and heavy and has to be hit hard. That's also why their cues are so short. A short, thick cue with a conical taper is very stiff - not just on the shaft but on the whole cue. Cues flex at the joint too.

Just imagine trying to bend a nail versus trying to bend a spike. Even if they had the same mass, it's just distributed in a way that makes the spike much harder to bend.

Chris
<hr /></blockquote>
I haven't studied physics either, you just have to think by yourself.

I don't have a conical taper because it is not consistent (different vertical axis spin with different bridge length).

Pelican
12-16-2004, 04:52 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote One:</font><hr>


Nobody should hold the butt tight, you only need to use the muscles you need for the stroke. <hr /></blockquote>

My wife holds the butt tight while I am using the muscles needed for the stroke. /ccboard/images/graemlins/shocked.gif

One
12-16-2004, 05:57 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Pelican:</font><hr> <blockquote><font class="small">Quote One:</font><hr>


Nobody should hold the butt tight, you only need to use the muscles you need for the stroke. <hr /></blockquote>

My wife holds the butt tight while I am using the muscles needed for the stroke. /ccboard/images/graemlins/shocked.gif <hr /></blockquote>
Wife can't hold the butt with consistent pressure.

Shoe
12-19-2004, 08:24 AM
I was given a Meucci Original (w/no dot) from a guy that didn't know what he had. Best stick I have ever had and just sold my CueTek because it was no longer needed.

nhp
12-19-2004, 04:52 PM
You know what amazes me, is how absoloutely identical and redundant all of these deflection argument threads are. You get some guy who has an unimpressive opinion on deflection, then a couple people throw in little tidbits of information here and there, and then as if he is a pool god, angrily woken from his slumber by the sound of pool blasphemy, one of the pool physics wizards suddenly makes his presence known, first by a one-liner post like "You have no idea what you're talking about", and then they wait for a while for the deflection blasphemer/sinner to dig their own grave even deeper in falsities, then suddenly *WHAM* the pool physics gods lay into him like a sledgehammer. Then of course there is a bunch of arguing and flaming, and then some guy who hasn't posted in the thread yet says something like "It's not the cue, it's the player!" and everyone basically agrees, and then the thread ends. I just find it funny.