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jpeters
12-15-2004, 11:16 PM
I was wondering if anyone in any of the states out there might have a nice upscale room that is smoke free. I travel quite a bit and would really like to play in a nice room that has clean air. I also read an article about the banning of all smoking in public areas in all 50 states soon. Anyone have any further news on this? Thanks for the info.

Wally_in_Cincy
12-16-2004, 07:14 AM
the only one I know for sure is Chalkers in Indy

Bob_in_Cincy
12-16-2004, 08:09 AM
Wally,

How successful is that room?

Bob

ms_cue
12-16-2004, 08:18 AM
all rooms in NYC are smoke free. As a matter of fact all bars and restraunts are also smoke free.

NBC-BOB
12-16-2004, 08:28 AM
Well I live in NJ and all of the rooms in my area allow smoking.But since I live close to NY state,I play at a few rooms in Rockland County,because of the nonsmoking laws for all of NY state.I have not heard or read anything about banning smoking in public places for all 50 states, but would welcome the ban.

Eric.
12-16-2004, 08:36 AM
Tim,

I know that in NY and CA, ther is a statewide ban on smoking in all public restaurants, bar's Poolrooms, etc.


Eric

Wally_in_Cincy
12-16-2004, 08:51 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Bob_in_Cincy:</font><hr> Wally,

How successful is that room?

Bob <hr /></blockquote>

I assume they do pretty well. It helps that Jeanette Lee and George Breedlove hang out there /ccboard/images/graemlins/smile.gif

williebetmore from AZB would know more. He plays there.

jpeters
12-16-2004, 09:33 AM
Hi Bob,

Thanks for the info. What room in Rockland County do you play at that is smoke free? What kind of tables do they have?

Candyman
12-16-2004, 10:52 AM
If you visit the mountains in NC, be sure to stop by Country Retreat Billiards in Banner Elk. You may see Allison or Gerta practicing there. It is smoke and alcohol free. "Chris in NC" is the owner and a regular on CCB.

Fred Agnir
12-16-2004, 11:21 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote jpeters:</font><hr> I was wondering if anyone in any of the states out there might have a nice upscale room that is smoke free. I travel quite a bit and would really like to play in a nice room that has clean air. I also read an article about the banning of all smoking in public areas in all 50 states soon. Anyone have any further news on this? Thanks for the info. <hr /></blockquote>There aren't many upscale rooms across the country that even compare the Boston Billiard Clubs in New England. And Massachusetts is smoke-free in all of them (Springfield, Worcester, and Boston, MA). http://www.bostonbilliardclub.com

A comparable room would be Amsterdam in NYC.

Fred

DialUp
12-16-2004, 11:57 AM
There is a nice, smoke free, room in Flagstaff AZ called Uptown Billiards. It is not that big (Ten 9 foot, Two bar box) but the playing conditions were real nice. Really nice tables kept in excellent condition and all the sticks on the walls rolled straight. The place was kept clean and the clientele appeared to take showers every day lol

This place was non smoking by choice. There was another room that was bigger but had smoking, it went under...

I played there for a couple years and the place did real well. Absolutely packed on Friday and Saturday. Did fair business on the weekdays, as well. No food because a restaurant in the building had food rights to the whole building. Their liscense allowed only beer and wine. Despite the abscense of hard liquor, food, and smoking, it does good business and has been around at least 12 years (that I know of)

Rod
12-16-2004, 01:13 PM
I understand the smoke free environment but not the upscale necessarly. When people say or want upscale, is that meant in a better class of people? How about equipment? It seems to me, people that prefer high class equipment, high table rates, expensive food etc, like being in your class. You won't find me there but I'm sure it doesn't make any difference.

Be that as it may I don't have a suggestion for Phoenix. The poster from Flag tried but it sounds below your standards. Sorry to be blunt but that is the way I feel everytime I hear upscale.


Rod

ragin1
12-16-2004, 02:33 PM
Yep. I had visions of Steve Davis walking around the table with his nose in the air, stopping to glare at me and tell me to put that fag out.

One
12-16-2004, 03:07 PM
"People who smoke are more evil than mass murderers because they destroy for others without having a goal in it...while mass murderers kill for a reason." - One

"The only difference between smokers and mass murderers is that the smokers don't know they are killing other people" - One

monkeydude20
12-16-2004, 04:14 PM
Hey,
The pool hall that I go to all the time is great. It's both a smoke free and alcohol free environment. Not only that but it was rated the best pool hall in America in the June, 1996 edition of Billiards Digest. They have awesome tournaments and lots of great players. check out the description on Hard Times Billiards (http://www.poolrooms.com/map.htm) in Bellflower, California. It's definetley a must stop pool hall. It may not look like much from the front but the inside is great. They also have really freindly service, and a lot of action.

JÄké /ccboard/images/graemlins/smile.gif

Scott Lee
12-17-2004, 12:20 AM
In Atlanta, downtown on Peachtree, you'll find Barley's Billiards...nice place, lots of decent tables (8' only), reasonably good food &amp; drink, and NON-smoking!

Scott Lee

Vagabond
12-17-2004, 06:49 AM
Howdy,
I am not a smoker.Ilove the arrangement at Hollywood Billiards in Hollywood,CA.They have a seperate lounge with comfortable chairs and big screen TV, out side the pool room.Smokers are respected.
Vagabond

jpeters
12-17-2004, 10:50 AM
Great Quotes!!!! This should be a sign posted at the entrance to every smoking establishment in the world. Thanks for caring.

ted harris
12-17-2004, 03:39 PM
There is also Orange Ball Billiards (http://www.obbilliards.com/) and Champion Billiards Cafe (http://www.championbilliards.com/index.cfm?fa=main.location&amp;location_id=1) in Rockville, MD. They are both million dollar establishments and two excellent rooms with gold crowns, excellent food, leagues, tournaments, and excellent atmosphere. I recommend them highly if you are in the area. /ccboard/images/graemlins/cool.gif

Williebetmore
12-17-2004, 06:46 PM
Well, it doesn't get much more upscale than Chalkies in Indy (at least in the corn forest of the Midwest). Even jeans look a little out of place (except if Jeanette is wearing them - though she doesn't make it over there very often now). Great Diamond tables (8 nine footers, and about 15 eight footers), tight pockets, pretty good condition, clean balls. Good music, dart area, televisions everywhere (1 bigscreen), gourmet food that is great (though pricey). You can go outside to smoke, but you'll freeze your rear off this time of year. I haven't examined the books, but it seems very busy most nights, and packed on weekends. Lots of good players, but not the "action" spot.

PQQLK9
12-17-2004, 07:00 PM
I have to agree with you on this one.

Cigarettes ... "you can live without them"

Keith Talent
12-17-2004, 10:57 PM
Too bad N.Y. and Calif. are such a long haul for you!
Or maybe that's a good thing.

I think we're lucky here in NYC because whether you feel like going to an "upscale" room with fresh cloth, live rails, space between the tables and hot waitresses, or some divey basement where the gamblers hang, at least you don't have to come home stinking and coughing.

Not that there's anything wrong with that ... that great experience is only 20 mins away in Jersey, for them what likes it. /ccboard/images/graemlins/laugh.gif

One
12-18-2004, 01:40 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote jpeters:</font><hr> Great Quotes!!!! This should be a sign posted at the entrance to every smoking establishment in the world. Thanks for caring. <hr /></blockquote>
Feel free to take my quotes and put them up in the entrance.

300Zhustler
12-23-2004, 10:43 PM
The Pool Room in Marietta Ga just added on a smoke free room with 11 double shim tables very nice and of course smoke free.

Malice
12-24-2004, 12:03 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote One:</font><hr> "People who smoke are more evil than mass murderers because they destroy for others without having a goal in it...while mass murderers kill for a reason." - One

"The only difference between smokers and mass murderers is that the smokers don't know they are killing other people" - One


<hr /></blockquote>


Wow. That's just so profound, and completely true.

Tell me, if seeking self-centered pleasure at the expense of public health and the greater common good is the moral equivalent (or worse) to mass murder, why is it that we are not locking up promiscuous gay males in light of the AIDS crisis?

You are probably aware, of course, that cigarette smoking in the gay community is about double that of heterosexuals. My plan above would be like killing two birds with one stone.

straightpool
12-24-2004, 08:13 AM
Just my two cents. I am a smoker and I wish all pool halls were smoke free. I do not smoke in my house at home. Therefore I don't smoke in someone else's house, even if they are a smoker. If more places banned smoking, in my opinion it would be easier to quit. It is a disgusting habit that is very hard to kick. Even the threat of cancer doesn't always work. I had cancer and I still smoke-sick ain't it!

Stretch
12-24-2004, 11:35 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Malice:</font><hr> <blockquote><font class="small">Quote One:</font><hr> "People who smoke are more evil than mass murderers because they destroy for others without having a goal in it...while mass murderers kill for a reason." - One

"The only difference between smokers and mass murderers is that the smokers don't know they are killing other people" - One


<hr /></blockquote>


Wow. That's just so profound, and completely true.

Tell me, if seeking self-centered pleasure at the expense of public health and the greater common good is the moral equivalent (or worse) to mass murder, why is it that we are not locking up promiscuous gay males in light of the AIDS crisis?

You are probably aware, of course, that cigarette smoking in the gay community is about double that of heterosexuals. My plan above would be like killing two birds with one stone.

<hr /></blockquote>

Now that you've kicked the smokers outside, i think it's time to tackle the problem of germs in the workplace. All emplyees everywhere are required to ware face masks (unless your shivering outside haveing a smoke) St

Stretch
12-24-2004, 11:52 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Stretch:</font><hr> <blockquote><font class="small">Quote Malice:</font><hr> <blockquote><font class="small">Quote One:</font><hr> "People who smoke are more evil than mass murderers because they destroy for others without having a goal in it...while mass murderers kill for a reason." - One

"The only difference between smokers and mass murderers is that the smokers don't know they are killing other people" - One


<hr /></blockquote>


Wow. That's just so profound, and completely true.

Tell me, if seeking self-centered pleasure at the expense of public health and the greater common good is the moral equivalent (or worse) to mass murder, why is it that we are not locking up promiscuous gay males in light of the AIDS crisis?

You are probably aware, of course, that cigarette smoking in the gay community is about double that of heterosexuals. My plan above would be like killing two birds with one stone.

<hr /></blockquote>

Now that you've kicked the smokers outside, i think it's time to tackle the problem of germs in the workplace. All emplyees everywhere are required to ware face masks (unless your shivering outside haveing a smoke) St <hr /></blockquote>

Sorry Malice, i didn't mean "you". LOL I liked your two birds with one stone concept. I kinda look at it all as natural selection. It's like some dogs look both ways before they cross the street, and some dogs don't. See? so all the dumb dogs are weeded out. St. ~~new a few that never past the road test~~

bobroberts
12-24-2004, 06:00 PM
I go to a place in Boca Raton Florida "Gatsbys" that is really upscale.It must have over 30 tables,different rooms,color T.V.s all over a great bar and fine looking women.Good food also.Free pay per view fights when they are on.Place is usually packed and guess what ,No Smoking.
I smoked for about 30 years, when I quit and now with all we know about cigarette smoking it amazes me to even see people still smoking.Whats even more amazing is those people trying to defend smoking.There is no defense to smoking.Its silly harmfull and expensive.If only I could of been a grown up when I was a kid!!
JMHO
Bob

chefjeff
12-25-2004, 08:34 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote One:</font><hr> "People who smoke are more evil than mass murderers because they destroy for others without having a goal in it...while mass murderers kill for a reason." - One

"The only difference between smokers and mass murderers is that the smokers don't know they are killing other people" - One


<hr /></blockquote>

Leaving aside for the monment the impossiblity of knowing killers' motivations, just how do smokers kill other people? Do you mean in pool halls?

If so, then your logic is flawed because these "victims" of which you speak come into the hall VOLUNTARILY. The best that could be said is that the "victims" (second hand smoke's deadly effects are very debatable, btw) commit suicide. Suicide is not murder. So goes the evil argument.

Also, I posted this site on another thread, but this illustrates what happens when the govt uses GUN-BACKED FORCE on innocent business owners:

http://www.smokersclubinc.com/banloss3.htm

Non-smokers, be careful what you wish for and be careful at whom you point your finger.

Jeff Livingston, a non-smoker

ted harris
12-31-2004, 07:11 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote chefjeff:</font><hr>Also, I posted this site on another thread, but this illustrates what happens when the govt uses GUN-BACKED FORCE on innocent business owners:

http://www.smokersclubinc.com/banloss3.htm

Jeff Livingston, a non-smoker <hr /></blockquote>
The link you posted has info stolen directly from this website;
http://www.davehitt.com/facts/badforbiz.html
It is widely known that the author of this info has direct connections to the tobacco industry.
If you would like to see what really goes on where the smoking ban has taken effect, check out;
Sales Don't Lie at Tobacco Scam.com (http://www.tobaccoscam.ucsf.edu/fake/fake_sdl.cfm)
There is plenty of info at this site regarding the tobacco industry as the name implies. It is really quite frightening the extent to which the industry has been scammed, not to mention the public.

ragin1
12-31-2004, 08:04 AM
Ok Ted. You have attacked the messenger, but conveniently forgot to address the points. There are plenty of smoke free pool halls. Plenty of smoke free resturaunts. Why should big brother regulate my business? If a nonsmoker chooses to step into a smoking allowed atmosphere is it the smokers/owners fault they inhaled smoke? Should the smoker/owner be held liable for another persons actions?

DavidMorris
12-31-2004, 09:00 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote ragin1:</font><hr> There are plenty of smoke free pool halls.<hr /></blockquote>
Really? Where I'm from there aren't plenty of pool halls of ANY kind, much less smoke-free. Pool halls aren't like restaurants, where even small towns have one or several on every block, so that comparison falls flat. My nearest pool hall is 30 miles away and is not smoke-free. I'd have to drive 100+ miles to find a smoke-free PH.

Governments have always regulated public safety, and public smoking in confined places is a matter of public safety. Not so much to the occassional customer who visits briefly but to those that work in that environment. I'm so tired of the rabid smokers saying "if you don't like it, find someplace else to go." How about this: right back atcha! If you like to smoke, do it in your car, your home, or outdoors where it isn't forced upon other people.

PQQLK9
12-31-2004, 09:12 AM
Where do you suggest non smokers play pool?
Why can't smokers be considerate and we can all breathe and play pool without stinking.
(are they selfesh to their own pleasures?)

I choose to avoid smoky restaurants and bars but I am addicted to pool.

What to do, what to do?
/ccboard/images/graemlins/mad.gif

chefjeff
12-31-2004, 09:46 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote ted harris:</font><hr> <blockquote><font class="small">Quote chefjeff:</font><hr>Also, I posted this site on another thread, but this illustrates what happens when the govt uses GUN-BACKED FORCE on innocent business owners:

http://www.smokersclubinc.com/banloss3.htm

Jeff Livingston, a non-smoker <hr /></blockquote>
The link you posted has info stolen directly from this website;
http://www.davehitt.com/facts/badforbiz.html
It is widely known that the author of this info has direct connections to the tobacco industry.
If you would like to see what really goes on where the smoking ban has taken effect, check out;
Sales Don't Lie at Tobacco Scam.com (http://www.tobaccoscam.ucsf.edu/fake/fake_sdl.cfm)
There is plenty of info at this site regarding the tobacco industry as the name implies. It is really quite frightening the extent to which the industry has been scammed, not to mention the public. <hr /></blockquote>

Scams are quite frightening, indeed.

Thanks for the additional info. What has been left out of those sites, though, is the property rights concepts. Whether or not the govt. is making a good business decision for the owners of the property is not THE point. That's just an "A" point. "A" points are often used to divert attention from THE point, in this case: property rights.

Who writes the checks for the bills of these businesses? Shouldn't that person have control then? If not, why not?

MYOB, is what Dear Abby would say. Let the business owners decide what customers they want and let the customers decide what they want. It's called freedom and IT IS NOT A SCAM!!!!!

Jeff Livingston

tateuts
12-31-2004, 12:04 PM
Out here on the West Coast, Hollywood Billards is not only a serious pool room, but it is a nicely done, upscale sports bar/restaurant and does not allow smoking. It was a 3 million dollar project. The place is huge - about 30,000 square feet, 2 stories, 35 tables (most set up by Ernesto Dominguez), etc. Here's the web site:

http://www.hollywoodbilliards.com

There are some pool rooms in California that (illegally) allow smoking - but they are a dwindling breed. It would not take much effort to close them down if someone desired to with legal action.

It should be clear to everyone by now that, sooner or later, smoking will be banned in all indoor places open to the public and workplaces in the United States. As fewer and fewer people smoke, and as the die-hard generation of smokers dwindles, ballot initiatives banning smoking which wouldn't have passed 10 years ago suddenly will get passed with a clean majority.

Quitting smoking was one of the hardest things I've ever done, but also was one of the most rewarding.

Chris

ragin1
12-31-2004, 01:07 PM
If you like govt protection so much David, get yourself a small business loan. Startup a poolhall. Make it smokefree. Make it a nonsmoking club if big brother won't let you be biased toward smokers. But please don't encourage more gov't regulations. If you don't like it, make one you like.

chefjeff
12-31-2004, 10:49 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote tateuts:</font><hr> Out here on the West Coast, Hollywood Billards is not only a serious pool room, but it is a nicely done, upscale sports bar/restaurant and does not allow smoking. It was a 3 million dollar project. The place is huge - about 30,000 square feet, 2 stories, 35 tables (most set up by Ernesto Dominguez), etc. Here's the web site:

http://www.hollywoodbilliards.com

There are some pool rooms in California that (illegally) allow smoking - but they are a dwindling breed. It would not take much effort to close them down if someone desired to with legal action.

It should be clear to everyone by now that, sooner or later, smoking will be banned in all indoor places open to the public and workplaces in the United States. As fewer and fewer people smoke, and as the die-hard generation of smokers dwindles, ballot initiatives banning smoking which wouldn't have passed 10 years ago suddenly will get passed with a clean majority.

Quitting smoking was one of the hardest things I've ever done, but also was one of the most rewarding.

Chris <hr /></blockquote>

Yeah, sadly you're probably right about smoking being made illegal everywhere. And then there's beer...it may be next. And then there's pool...it may be right behind that. Absurd?...check this out:

http://www.smokersclubinc.com/modules.php?name=News&amp;file=article&amp;sid=761

Jeff Livingston (I quit smoking 30 years ago right at this moment, midnight, 1/1/75)

ted harris
01-01-2005, 09:17 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote chefjeff:</font><hr> Yeah, sadly you're probably right about smoking being made illegal everywhere.<hr /></blockquote>
Sadly...? Hardly!

<blockquote><font class="small">Quote chefjeff:</font><hr>And then there's beer...it may be next. And then there's pool...it may be right behind that.<hr /></blockquote>
Why would beer be next? Alcohol doesn't make me drunk when you drink it...now does it? And when you play pool, you don't make me play now do you? It does not take a rocket scientist...


<blockquote><font class="small">Quote chefjeff:</font><hr>Absurd?...check this out:

http://www.smokersclubinc.com/modules.php?name=News&amp;file=article&amp;sid=761

Jeff Livingston (I quit smoking 30 years ago right at this moment, midnight, 1/1/75) <hr /></blockquote>
Why do you keep posting this crap?
Here are links to repudiate everything on the site you listed.
California EPA Report Health Effects of Exposure to Environmental Tobacco Smoke (1997):
http://www.oehha.org/air/environmental_tobacco/index.html
http://www5.who.int/tobacco/page.cfm?tld=67#healtheffects
http://www.health.gov.au/nhmrc/publications/synopses/ph23syn.htm
http://www.official-documents.co.uk/document/doh/tobacco/contents.htm
http://ehp.niehs.nih.gov/roc/tenth/profiles/s176toba.pdf
http://www.euro.who.int/document/aiq/8_1ets.pdf
http://www.nih.gov/news/pr/may2000/niehs-15.htm

Here is 464 pages of evidence regarding the infamous National Cancer
Institute report;
http://cancercontrol.cancer.gov/tcrb/monographs/10/m10_complete.pdf

Here is a link to a press release by the WHO stating that Phillip Morris &amp; other tobacco companies monitored &amp; actively interfered with the conduct of an international ETS epidemiological study by the WHO; http://www.uicc.org/publ/pr/home/00040701.shtml

and another by the WHO that states that almost HALF the worlds children are endangered by tobacco smoke;
http://www.rferl.org/nca/features/1999/06/F.RU.990629125134.html

If you would like to stay up to date with the WHO, here is the link for it;
http://www.who.int/tobacco/en/

Here is the current status of ETS is at the WHO;
http://www.who.int/tobacco/health_impact/secondhand_smoke/en/

Take note of this quote from within this WHO page;
While the tobacco industry continues to claim that the evidence that
passive smoking causes disease – particularly lung cancer – is controversial, every independent authoritative scientific body that has examined the evidence has concluded that passive smoking causes many diseases ( Table 1 ). Moreover, the evidence that passive smoking causes disease is not new. The first studies linking passive
smoking with breathing problems in children and lung cancer in adults 20 years or more ago and the studies linking passive smoking and heart disease are over 10 years old.
The tobacco industry attacks the evidence that passive smoking is dangerous because it knows that smokers are reluctant to poison others. Smoke free workplaces, public places, and homes help smokers cut down or stop, which reduces tobacco company sales and profits.

During my research, I have discovered that the
ETS issue is far worse than even I could have imagined.

Oh, and let's don't forget the eleven million plus documents at Tobacco Documents online (http://www.tobaccodocuments.org) that were entered into evidence in the states class action suit against the tobacco companies. These documents were all from the manufacturers themselves.

If the links above are not enough, check out Tobacco Scam (http://www.tobaccoscam.com) website operated by the University of California at San Francisco.

PQQLK9
01-01-2005, 05:53 PM
tap tap tap /ccboard/images/graemlins/smile.gif

chefjeff
01-02-2005, 12:36 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote ted harris:</font><hr> <blockquote><font class="small">Quote chefjeff:</font><hr> Yeah, sadly you're probably right about smoking being made illegal everywhere.<hr /></blockquote>
Sadly...? Hardly!

<blockquote><font class="small">Quote chefjeff:</font><hr>And then there's beer...it may be next. And then there's pool...it may be right behind that.<hr /></blockquote>
Why would beer be next? Alcohol doesn't make me drunk when you drink it...now does it? And when you play pool, you don't make me play now do you? It does not take a rocket scientist...


<blockquote><font class="small">Quote chefjeff:</font><hr>Absurd?...check this out:

http://www.smokersclubinc.com/modules.php?name=News&amp;file=article&amp;sid=761

Jeff Livingston (I quit smoking 30 years ago right at this moment, midnight, 1/1/75) <hr /></blockquote>
Why do you keep posting this crap?
Here are links to repudiate everything on the site you listed.
<hr /></blockquote>

Thanks for the links, Ted.

Does your term "crap" refer to the point I'm talking about, property rights?...

...Or do you mean the web sites that list places put out of business by govt force?

Or is there something else?

Jeff Livingston

chefjeff
01-03-2005, 08:22 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote ted harris:</font><hr> <blockquote><font class="small">Quote chefjeff:</font><hr> Yeah, sadly you're probably right about smoking being made illegal everywhere.<hr /></blockquote>
Sadly...? Hardly!

<blockquote><font class="small">Quote chefjeff:</font><hr>And then there's beer...it may be next. And then there's pool...it may be right behind that.<hr /></blockquote>
Why would beer be next? Alcohol doesn't make me drunk when you drink it...now does it? And when you play pool, you don't make me play now do you? It does not take a rocket scientist...

<hr /></blockquote>

I just couldn't let this one go without a response.

Amendment XVIII - Liquor abolished. Ratified 1/16/1919.

And that's just the feds...local govts. do this all the time. And they still do it with pool, too, and lots of other stuff.

To correct another error, the smokersclub does not get all its info from theft of that other site Ted linked to(which list its source as news releases---lol). In fact, a former pool room owner from the AZ board asked me to send his story of his room closing, due to gun-backed smoking laws,to the smokersclub and Samantha there sent me a confirmation of it having been posted there. Not theft, but voluntary exchange---what a concept!

Also, the source of the article I linked to, about the absurd, came not from the smokersclub site but originally from:

http:\\www.theagitator.com

An added bonus there for us pool players is a nice painting of Jerry Orbach (scroll down on the home page).

Just to be clear, I am NOT defending smoking, per se; I AM defending liberty and property rights, something necessary for pool halls to exist and thrive.

Jeff Livingston

ragin1
01-03-2005, 08:24 AM
I'm so tired of the rabid smokers saying "if you don't like it, find someplace else to go."

There is only one poster on this thread that could be considered rabid, and he seems to be a nonsmoker. I certainly have taken him off the list for my collection.

PQQLK9
01-03-2005, 08:45 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote ragin1:</font><hr> I'm so tired of the rabid smokers saying "if you don't like it, find someplace else to go."<hr /></blockquote>

me too

DavidMorris
01-03-2005, 08:50 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote ragin1:</font><hr> I'm so tired of the rabid smokers saying "if you don't like it, find someplace else to go."

There is only one poster on this thread that could be considered rabid, and he seems to be a nonsmoker. I certainly have taken him off the list for my collection. <hr /></blockquote>
Just to clarify, when I said that about rabid smokers I wasn't referring to anybody specifically on this board. I've just heard that line so many times that I'm sick of it.

Now, what is this collection of which you speak? /ccboard/images/graemlins/smile.gif

ted harris
01-03-2005, 10:59 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote ragin1:</font><hr> There is only one poster on this thread that could be considered rabid, and he seems to be a nonsmoker. I certainly have taken him off the list for my collection. <hr /></blockquote>
I guess that the tobacco companies crimes causing the death of millions via the modern day scourge of humanity, and the smokers poisoning the air that others breathe is not considered rabid in your book? No, you say...but it is rabid for a non-smoker to simply excersise the right of free speech that is guaranteed under the first ammendmant? I find it ironic that you harbor ill feelings towards a person merely exercising free speech, but have no issue with the perpetrators. Happy New year to you too, sir.

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.
— The First Amendment to the U.S. Constitution

"To silence criticism is to silence freedom."
-Sidney Hook philosopher, 1951

ted harris
01-03-2005, 11:07 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote DavidMorris:</font><hr>Now, what is this collection of which you speak? /ccboard/images/graemlins/smile.gif <hr /></blockquote>
Cue collection...I guess he won't be getting one of my cues for his collection because he thinks that it is more important for people to smoke, than it is for me to excercise the right of free speech.

ragin1
01-04-2005, 08:35 AM
False Ted. You hold the 1st amdmt in such high regard you copy it verbatim. What about the 10th? I have no intention of trying to silence your opinion. IMHO you have every right to sell your cues to whomever YOU choose. I should be afforded the same right in whom I choose to rent table time to. Its simply a private property issue.

chefjeff
01-04-2005, 03:25 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote ragin1:</font><hr> False Ted. You hold the 1st amdmt in such high regard you copy it verbatim. What about the 10th? I have no intention of trying to silence your opinion. IMHO you have every right to sell your cues to whomever YOU choose. I should be afforded the same right in whom I choose to rent table time to. Its simply a private property issue. <hr /></blockquote>

I am so happy that ragin1 understands the issue so well. It doesn't surprise me, as he appears to own a pool hall and has to make payroll, etc.

And I am glad that more of the Constitution is actually being considered here as an important issue for pool players (and cue makers). This part of the first amendment jumped out at me:

Congress shall make no law...prohibiting the...right of the people peaceably to assemble...

— from The First Amendment to the U.S. Constitution

Jeff Livingston

DavidMorris
01-04-2005, 04:02 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote chefjeff:</font><hr>Congress shall make no law...prohibiting the...right of the people peaceably to assemble...

— from The First Amendment to the U.S. Constitution

Jeff Livingston <hr /></blockquote>
Okay now, I respect everybody's opinion on the matter, but let's not start butchering and paraphrasing the Constitution and trying to use it to argue smoking vs. non-smoking.

The "right to assemble" pertains to peaceful demonstration against the government, not hanging out at the poolhall. The right to "free speech" does not apply to private (non-government related) speech -- if you believe that it does, try cursing out your boss and then suing for wrongful termination, or yelling "Fire!" in a crowded theater. Or committing libel/slander that damages someone and expect not to be held liable.

The Bill of Rights are restrictions on the GOVERNMENT with regards to abridging the rights of the people... and there is no Constitutional right to smoke, therefore it isn't protected, it isn't even a "right" it's a priviledge, just like driving. Or playing pool. Or drinking. I've seen people under court order to stay away from alcohol. That's possible because alcohol consumption isn't a right. No judge could say "you cannot practice your religion" (provided your "religion" doesn't violate established law) or "you cannot speak out against the government." But any court or legislation is certainly free to restrict, regulate, or prohibit smoking if and when it is determined to be a threat to public safety, just like drugs are.

Just wanted to get that off my chest before more Constitution flinging occurs over something that has nothing to do with the Constitution.

PQQLK9
01-04-2005, 05:07 PM
Smoking Should Prohibited -- Debate

Arguments Against:

1. Smoking should not be prohibited, for cigarettes give many people a good deal of pleasure much of the time.
2. Nicotine can produce a tranquilizing effect during high emotions and shock situations, and therefore, helps to calm people down.
3. Smoking counteracts the decrease in efficiency that typically occurs in boring, monotonous situations.
4. Smokers can improve their performance in complex situations while smoking.
5. Smokers help increase the revenue of our country.
6. Smoking kills no more people than epidemics or traffic accidents.
7. Most smokers spend much money on snacks, a habit costing as much as smoking if not more
8. Many young women admire handsome boys with a cigarette on their lip.
9. Young women who smoke appear cool and capable.
10. If we eliminated smoking, many people in the tobacco industry will be out of jobs, and that will create many social problems.
11. Smoking may not always lead to death, Winston Churchill was a chain-smoker but he enjoyed a long life.
12. Facts have shown that if a chain-smoker suddenly quits smoking, He's more likely to have lung-cancer than those who keep the habit.
13. Everybody has the right to keep his or her habits. Smokers are no exception.
14. Many smokers live to a very old age.
15. Many non-smokers die an early death.
16. The government should not restrict the rights of an individual to seek pleasure that does not hurt anyone.
17. Tobacco has not been proven to be harmful to health.
18. Tobacco and smoking is a harmless pleasure enjoyed by many for many years.
19. Many older people derive great pleasure for a smoke now and then.

Smoking Should Prohibited -- Debate

Arguments in Favor:

1. Smoking should be prohibited.
The World Health Organization points out that diseases linked to smoking kill at least three million people each year, one every six seconds.
2. Scientific research has shown that the risk of developing lung cancer increases with smoking.
The number of cigarettes smoked per day and the duration of the smoking habit increase your chances.
It diminishes with the cessation of smoking.
3. Smoking is not only harmful to the smoker but also results in the deaths of non-smokers.
Statistics show that passive smoking is causing 3000 to 5000 lung cancer deaths a year among American non-smokers.
4. Smoking not only leads to lung cancer, but also many other diseases.
This includes heart attacks, sore throats, headaches, chronic bronchitis, pulmonary emphysema, etc.
5. An American scientist estimated that smokers who average a package a day for 20 years would lose about eight years of their lives.
6. Smoking makes the indoor environment far more polluted than the outdoor environment.
7. Pregnant women who smoke run the risk of having deformed babies.
When the mother smokes so does the baby.
8. Smoking is an expensive habit, for a smoker who consumes a package a day will spend much money every month.
9. Smoking has a bad impact on the psyche of the smokers.
On the one hand, smokers realize the bad effects of smoking and are persuaded from time to time to stop.
On the other hand, many of them can hardly resist the temptation to smoke. Thus, they often lose confidence in themselves.
10. Children exposed to parental cigarette smoking are put at a higher risk of developing lung cancer later in their lives.
11. In the countryside, some smokers share the same pipe, which is even more unhealthier.
12. Smoking not only pollutes the air but also makes the streets dirty.
Some smokers flick ash off their cigarettes and throw cigarette butts everywhere.
13. Smoking speeds up the process of aging and helps cause wrinkles on people's faces.
14. Smokers cause many fires that kill people and destroy property.
15. Each cigarette smoked costs smokers six minutes of their life.

jpeters
01-04-2005, 07:54 PM
Wow It is amazing to see how a question becomes the main topic of controversy here. The responses started off with many rooms to add to my list, with Thanks to all. Amazingly the talks continue here with the smoking issue. I share the same feelings with the nonsmokers too and the ones whom have quit with gratitude. I have visited 3 of the rooms in California and can say that the business seems to be as good or better than that of the rooms here in Denver. It seems quite logical that because the majority of the population does not smoke that the room owners would want to cater to them. More business as I see it. I would certainly spend twice the price for a night out at a smoke free billiard room.

BTW: On Volume 10 of the Academy videos Tim has a very interesting Health segment with a warning about smoking leading to it. I would have to say he is very much against smoking too.

ragin1
01-04-2005, 09:26 PM
For me it is a property rights issue. Plain and simple. Glad to hear you found 3 establishments you enjoy.