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Chopstick
12-24-2004, 07:42 AM
why should you get the day off? I don't get it. I don't get Martin Luther King day off. Would it make any sense to tell Q Happy Thanksgiving? It's a Christian holiday. So, now I guess they want to run the Christians off and keep the holiday for themselves, whoever they might be. Get your own holiday, leave them alone.

As the radio personality Mad Max would say "My big old butt!"

9 Ball Girl
12-24-2004, 07:56 AM
It's funny that you should mention that. Although I have nothing against anyone's religions or beliefs, I can't understand why, for example, at work we have Hasidic (sp?) coworkers who take off weeks at a time for religous beliefs (I wish I could take those weeks off too!) and will gladly take off Christmas and all others (well, those are legal holidays so they have no choice) but, well, I guess I just don't get it.

SnakebyteXX
12-24-2004, 08:51 AM
[ QUOTE ]
FORBIDDEN CHRISTMAS
Celebration of birthdays -- even including that of Christ -- was rejected as a pagan tradition by most Christians during the first three hundred years of Christianity, but the matter became increasingly controversial. The third century Christian writer Tertullian supported observance of Christ's birthday, but condemned the inclusion of Saturnalia customs such as exchanging of gifts and decorating homes with evergreens. Chapter 10 of the Book of Jeremiah begins by condemning the heathen practice of cutting a tree from the forest to "deck it with silver and gold".

Christmas as celebrated by Catholics and early Protestants a few hundred years ago was not the secular holiday we recognize today. It was a "Christes Maesee" (Old English for Christ's Mass) or Nativity service plus a large family dinner.

The English Puritans felt that there was "no biblical sanction" for Christmas -- regarding the holiday as Pope-ish and bacchanalian. Oliver Cromwell campaigned against the heathen practices of feasting, decorating and singing, which he felt desecrated the spirit of Christ. Cromwell's government abolished English Christmas celebration by an act of Parliament in 1647, and the ban was not lifted until Cromwell lost power in 1660.

A similar law forbidding Christmas celebration in New England was passed by the Massachusetts Bay Colony Puritans ("Pilgrams") in 1659 (repealed in 1681). Wassailing (a door-to-door visiting of neighbors, drinking at each stop) was condemned as a source of public disorder. (Wassail is a hot spiced wine punch with tiny roasted apples or clove-studded oranges floating on top. "Wes hal" is Saxon/Old English for "be hale" or "be of good health". The fact that toast sometimes floated in wassail bowls has been given as an explanation for "toasting to health".) Thanksgiving was the most important festivity for the Puritans.

Although Christmas was not widely celebrated in New England until 1852, it was popular in the American South beginning with the Anglican settlement of Jamestown, Virginia in 1607. The Virginian colonists were the first to establish eggnog as a holiday beverage. ("Nog" comes from the word grog, meaning any drink made with rum.) Dutch influence in the settlement of New York City (New Amsterdam) helped make New York a mostly pro-Christmas state, although there was still an anti-Christmas New England influence. Christmas was not declared an American federal holiday until 1870.

In 1583 the Presbyterian church suppressed the observation of Christmas in Scotland because there are no biblical references to Christmas celebrations nor any biblical commandments to celebrate the birthday of Christ. The Church of Scotland continued to discourage the celebration of Christmas, which remained a normal working day in Scotland until the 1960s.

Modern Jehovah's Witnesses and other fundamentalists still regard Christmas to be a pagan holiday, which they do not celebrate.

Christmas was discouraged in the officially atheist Soviet Union, but a Festival of Winter was celebrated, and "Father Frost" would bring gifts to children at the New Year. Fidel Catro declared Cuba to be atheist in 1962, but did not prohibit the celebration of Christmas until 1969. Castro restored the holiday in 1997 when Pope John Paul II was permitted to visit the country.

<hr /></blockquote>

Link (http://www.benbest.com/history/xmas.html#forbid)

[ QUOTE ]
Some legends claim that the Christian "Christmas" celebration was invented to compete against the pagan celebrations of December. The 25th was not only sacred to the Romans but also the Persians whose religion Mithraism was one of Christianity's main rivals at that time. The Church eventually was successful in taking the merriment, lights, and gifts from the Saturanilia festival and bringing them to the celebration of Christmas.

The exact day of the Christ child's birth has never been pinpointed. Traditions say that it has been celebrated since the year 98 AD. In 137 AD the Bishop of Rome ordered the birthday of the Christ Child celebrated as a solemn feast. In 350 AD another Bishop of Rome, Julius I, choose December 25th as the observance of Christmas.

<hr /></blockquote>

Link (http://www.holidays.net/christmas/story.htm)

Ross
12-24-2004, 12:09 PM
I'm confused, Wendy and Chopstick. Don't most (all?) employers give the same number of paid holidays per year for all of their workers? I've never heard of a job where you can just "take off" extra days without either going on unpaid leave or it counting against your vacation time. Wendy, are you saying the Hasidic workers are getting weeks of paid holidays that you aren't? Or are you saying they get to go on unpaid leave during those weeks and you aren't allowed to do the same?

Rich R.
12-24-2004, 03:07 PM
Ross, although Wendy and I are in different cities, we have the same employer. /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif

Other than official paid holidays, an employee would have to use vacation time for other holidays.

They also have the option of working "Religious Compensatory Leave". They would have to submit a request and have it approved by management. After approval, they would be able to work extra hours, in an amount to match the amount of time they have requested to observe their religious beliefs. It is simply a matter of working extra hours now, to take off later. Religious leave is available to all employees, regardless of religion.

I would imagine other employers have something similar to accommodate the religious beliefs of employees.

bobroberts
12-24-2004, 06:10 PM
Well dang snakebite told you.Now I hope you get it.

SPetty
12-24-2004, 07:46 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Chopstick:</font><hr>I don't get Martin Luther King day off. <hr /></blockquote>My company offers every employee one or two "Diversity Days" (depending on how the Christian holidays fall...) in addition to their normal vacation, to use as they wish, ostensibly to celebrate any non-Christian religious or ethnic days as they see fit.

I could use mine to take off Martin Luther King day if I wanted, but I use it to take off my birthday.

Ross
12-24-2004, 08:07 PM
Spetty, my employer gives also gives us 2 "floating holidays" to use as we see fit. I use them to honor my "US Open - 9-Ball" religion. /ccboard/images/graemlins/smile.gif

Vagabond
12-25-2004, 05:08 AM
When is it?
Vagabond /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif

dg-in-centralpa
12-25-2004, 08:42 AM
I am not Jewish but was jealous of them while in school. They got off for their holidays as well as the normal ones. At work, I am self employed so I don't get "paid vacations." I work as much or as little as I want.

DG - such is the life of a realtor

Ross
12-25-2004, 09:42 AM
Yeah, but they were probably jealous of you as well - they didn't get any Christmas presents!

9 Ball Girl
12-25-2004, 12:13 PM
Exactly what Rich said. If you have the leave to cover your absence, then I guess you're entitled to it. But it still urks me nonetheless. Especially when they let you work in an office (other than your homeoffice) so that you can be closer to home so that you can make it home before sundown. Um, like, why not just get up earlier in the morning, get to your homeoffice a little earlier so that you can leave earlier?

Obviously my riff is going beyond holidays here.

eg8r
12-25-2004, 08:38 PM
[ QUOTE ]
I'm confused, Wendy and Chopstick. Don't most (all?) employers give the same number of paid holidays per year for all of their workers? I've never heard of a job where you can just "take off" extra days without either going on unpaid leave or it counting against your vacation time. <hr /></blockquote> My employer does not recognize the difference between sick days, and any other day taken off which are not holiday or vacation. The sick and random days are considered absent and are paid. I am sure there is a penalty if you were to take them all the time. The only problem with using "A" on your time is that they expect you to "flex" those hours sometime during the quarter. Which means unpaid OT. Which leads me to the bad, we never get paid OT. /ccboard/images/graemlins/frown.gif

eg8r

eg8r
12-25-2004, 08:41 PM
[ QUOTE ]
They also have the option of working "Religious Compensatory Leave". They would have to submit a request and have it approved by management. After approval, they would be able to work extra hours, in an amount to match the amount of time they have requested to observe their religious beliefs. It is simply a matter of working extra hours now, to take off later. Religious leave is available to all employees, regardless of religion.
<hr /></blockquote> We have something similar, it is called "flex" time. If you know that you are going to be out later in the week, you can work extra hours during the beginning of the week to make up for the rest of the week. I have worked many 4 10 hour days so that I can take off on Friday. Also, if you take time off and do not make the time up, you use an "A" for absent and have to make up the time using unpaid OT during the same quarter. I am sure excess use is frowned on, but it is a great thing.

eg8r

Chopstick
12-26-2004, 07:20 AM
One of the founding principals of this country was religious freedom. Go to America, believe what you want, worship as you see fit and nobody is going to interfere. Isn't that what they said back then. This no Merry Christmas thing amounts to nothing more than religious intolarance. The opposite of what this country was founded on. Welcome to the United States of the Offended.

"How come it's not OK to say Merry Christmas one day a year and it's OK to say kiss my A.. every other day" - Bob the Barfly