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trailboss
12-27-2004, 10:20 PM
This shot came up in a game of Eight Ball, yes I missed it. Here is the shot: Eight ball on the footspot and cue ball in hand behind the headstring. I have been practicing this shot useing a cut to the corner pocket. I can only make it four out of ten tries. Should I be practicing banking it instead? Banking into one of the corner pockets behind the headstring that is. /ccboard/images/graemlins/confused.gif /ccboard/images/graemlins/confused.gif

UTAddb
12-27-2004, 11:22 PM
It is much, much easier and reliable to cut it in the corner, there are several systems of shooting a spot shot like this since it is so common.

stickman
12-28-2004, 12:02 AM
A spot shot? One way that works well for me is to start with the cueball just about 2"s from the long rail, just behind the headstring. I aim the dead center of the cueball to the very edge of the object ball and shoot with high to prevent a scratch in the opposite corner. It's a half ball hit. For some reason, it works better than any other way I tried. I only do this on spot shots. It might help.

dr_dave
12-28-2004, 07:50 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote stickman:</font><hr> A spot shot? One way that works well for me is to start with the cueball just about 2"s from the long rail, just behind the headstring. I aim the dead center of the cueball to the very edge of the object ball and shoot with high to prevent a scratch in the opposite corner. It's a half ball hit. For some reason, it works better than any other way I tried. I only do this on spot shots. It might help. <hr /></blockquote>

That's good advice because the aiming line is very easy to visualize (aiming right at the edge of the object ball). However, the ideal setup location (e.g., 2 inches from the rail) depends on the size of the table. You should practice the shot and play with the setup location to find the best spot. FYI, I'll be writing an article on this topic in the near future. It will be posted online (http://www.engr.colostate.edu/~dga/pool/bd_articles/index.html).

trailboss
12-28-2004, 08:20 AM
Thanks for the imput everyone! Dr. Dave, I think that would be a great article as a lot of players struggle with this type of shot. I am off to the pool hall, I am going to shoot some on the Valley Blackcat table with tight pockets. /ccboard/images/graemlins/shocked.gif

stickman
12-28-2004, 08:21 AM
Good observation. I was refering to a 7' barbox. /ccboard/images/graemlins/smile.gif

woody_968
12-28-2004, 08:33 AM
Another way to practice this shot, or any long distance shot that gives you trouble, is to start out closer to the object ball and move back as you get more comfortable.

Place the OB on the spot and put the cueball on the line it would be on if you were shooting out of the kitchen, but only put it a foot away from the OB. Shoot this shot until you feel you will make it every time. Then move the cueball to two feet back and repeat, then three feet back, you get the idea /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif Before you know it you will feel MUCH more comfortable hitting this shot.

Woody

dr_dave
12-28-2004, 08:42 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote trailboss:</font><hr> Thanks for the imput everyone! Dr. Dave, I think that would be a great article as a lot of players struggle with this type of shot. I am off to the pool hall, I am going to shoot some on the Valley Blackcat table with tight pockets. /ccboard/images/graemlins/shocked.gif <hr /></blockquote>
Trailboss,
I also fear "tight pockets," but I always remind myself that snooker tables are much worse and scarier. Pockets on a pool table (even tight, shimmed pockets) are still huge gaping holes compared to snooker pockets. So when you are shooting, think "HUGE GAPING HOLES" and maybe that will help pyschologically ... that's what I try to do.

doncartmill
12-28-2004, 09:21 AM
Another thought ...you are having trouble visualizing the shot...Do this,place 8 ball on the spot,then dead center from the center of the pocket thru the 8 place another ball frozen to the 8...Now line up the shot from behind the head string sighting dead ctr on the frozen ball,which is where you must aim in order to contact the 8 for the proper cut angle into the corner pocket. Now remove the 2nd ball and aim as if it were still there. The other suggestions of working your way back from a position1 foot from the 8 ,in steps will give you confidence. I suspect the difference in shooting these shots vs the spot shot is in your stroke. One of the stroke training procedures would pay dividends. A siple one I have heard suggested is to use a soda bottle...line up and complete your stroke thru the neck of the bottle without hitting the bottle. Anything that will steady your stroke. As a beginner you can get away with a wavering stroke on short shots,which becomes a miss at longer distances and you think you have done it exactly the same ( and infact you have ...the feed back is confusing...no one said the game is easy)

Pelican
12-28-2004, 11:05 AM
Here is the bank if your corners are blocked. Take a line from the inside edge of the corner pocket you are going to stand at through the center of the OB. Cue slightly below center line with 1/2 tip of inside. Contact OB head on. Stroke at just below break speed. Works for me.

Bob_Jewett
12-28-2004, 11:19 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote trailboss:</font><hr> This shot came up in a game of Eight Ball, yes I missed it. Here is the shot: Eight ball on the footspot and cue ball in hand behind the headstring. I have been practicing this shot useing a cut to the corner pocket. I can only make it four out of ten tries. Should I be practicing banking it instead? Banking into one of the corner pockets behind the headstring that is. /ccboard/images/graemlins/confused.gif /ccboard/images/graemlins/confused.gif <hr /></blockquote>
Hi Trailboss,

While a forum like this can give good answers to specific problems, you might want to consider getting a couple of good pool books. They will have the various ideas well organized and illustrated, and you can read them in the comfort of your easy chair or porcelain throne. They will answer lots of questions that you didn't realize you had.

Two books that cover the half-ball way to shoot spot shots are Bob Byrne's "Standard Book of Pool and Billiards" and the recently published "Pool Player's Edge" by Kanov and Stauch. Those two books have many, many other useful things for any pool player.

Ray Martin's book "99 Critical Shots" also suggests a way to line up spot shots, but I'd rather bank the ball than use Ray's method.

Brick_Top
12-28-2004, 02:11 PM
Shoot this shot 500 times a day from each side. Until you are over 90% on this shot, keep doing it. If you are thinking about banking this shot instead, you should unscrew and take up bowling.

Chris Cass
12-28-2004, 02:59 PM
Hi trailboss,

There's 2 shots you should never miss. They're the spot shot and the cross-side bank. You need to get very close to doing this about 90% to go anywhere in this game. I suggest you practice these shots everytime you go to the table first before any practice routine. Just till your throughly(sp) confident these are gimmeys.

JAT,

C.C.~~the spot shot has become less important since the game of 9 ball replaced straight pool.

ras314
12-28-2004, 03:33 PM
Hi Chris,

On a good day I expect to hit both the spot shot and the cross side bank (if not too much cut required) 90% or better. However the problem is trying to get something other than natural position when you aren't shooting the money ball. Especially the spot shot which used to be so common before BLH rules. For instance banking the spot ball is easier than going 3 rails to leave the cb near the foot rail. Both shots get much more difficult when much english is used.

Sure hope and pray your new regime is working out well for you. I didn't see Heide's post untill it was several pages back and didn't want to put it back on top.

Cane
12-28-2004, 04:01 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote stickman:</font><hr> Good observation. I was refering to a 7' barbox. /ccboard/images/graemlins/smile.gif <hr /></blockquote>

Stickman, I like your way of shooting it on ANY size table. The geometry of the tables are the same... all are twice as wide as they are long and the half ball hit, if executed well, will put the ball center pocket... not in the face, it won't rattle, it will go center pocket. If you don't like shooting off the rail, move it out a few more inches and line it up as a quarter ball hit. Guess what... it goes center pocket.

Like CC said, this is one of the two shots you should never miss, especially if you ever get involved in Ring Games. I practice the spot shots from every imaginable angle, including one diamond out from the left rail, cutting it back to the right and vice versa (be careful with this one... too much speed with a center ball hit and you'll scratch in the corner you're shooting from). I play a lot of ring games, so this is a shot you just can't afford to miss! One thing you'll learn quickly, on spot shots with the ball on or behind the headstring, there are only three places you ever have to aim the cue ball to make the shot. Let me rephrase that a bit... there are only three lines one which the CB must be aimed at the OB to make the spot shots. Once you figure out what those three aim lines are, spot shots become easy!

Later,
Bob

monkeydude20
12-28-2004, 04:19 PM
Just keep practicing shooting it in the corner. It's a lot easier to shoot it into the corner than banking it. Hang in there and keep trying it. You'll get it.
JÄké /ccboard/images/graemlins/smile.gif

stickman
12-28-2004, 05:23 PM
I used to miss them, until someone gave me a different way to see the shot. The first time I tried it, I made 10 in a row. Like you say, the spot shot comes up a lot in ring games, and I was embarrassed to miss them. I still miss one occassionally, but not too many. /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif

Chris Cass
12-28-2004, 11:01 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote ras314:</font><hr> Hi Chris,
Sure hope and pray your new regime is working out well for you. I didn't see Heide's post until it was several pages back and didn't want to put it back on top. <hr /></blockquote>

Thank you for not pulling it back RAS. I didn't want it up for discussion during the holidays. It's a bit too much and although the board is very kind and thoughtful. I just think it's best to leave it be. Yes, I'm doing ok and things seem to be going as I thought they would. Right now I'm beat up a bit from the radiation. I'll have 2 weeks off after next week and then the chemo will come. That too will be tiring but I have been lifting weights 2 1/2 lbs and trying to stay as strong as I can be. I'll pm you a bit later to let you know. Also shooting some too. 3 sets for the night and maybe, 3 times a week. I've been using the Boti and it's been great. I've retired the S.W.

Regards,

C.C.

SPetty
12-29-2004, 07:28 AM
Hi Chris,

Thanks for the update. I get happy when you're posting because I know that means you're feeling better. I also know you could do without the added attention, which is why I don't ask how you're doing all the time. But please understand that there are many of us here who care and would like to be updated with what's going on in your life. We'll also help if we can if you need it.

I wouldn't mind a PM every now and then telling me what's going on with you and your treatment. /ccboard/images/graemlins/smile.gif

-- SPetty

Chris Cass
12-29-2004, 11:12 AM
Anything for you SPetty.

Regards,

C.C.~~ /ccboard/images/graemlins/laugh.gif

Qtec
12-29-2004, 12:05 PM
[ QUOTE ]
Once you figure out what those three aim lines are, spot shots become easy!
<hr /></blockquote>

Thats assuming that the player can get the Qb from A to B.

What if the spot is not exactly in place? You would continue to miss every spot shot.

Why do people have so much trouble with straight shots? There is no aiming involved. It cant be any simpler than aiming for the center of the OB.

So many people say think they have a problem with aiming when the fact is, they cant shoot the Qb in a straight line.

Qtec

dr_dave
12-29-2004, 11:11 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Cane:</font><hr> <blockquote><font class="small">Quote stickman:</font><hr> Good observation. I was refering to a 7' barbox. /ccboard/images/graemlins/smile.gif <hr /></blockquote>

Stickman, I like your way of shooting it on ANY size table. The geometry of the tables are the same... all are twice as wide as they are long<hr /></blockquote>

However, the balls are the same size on all tables; so on smaller tables, the balls are effectively "bigger." This affects the aim on some types of shots. I present an interesting example of this in my June, 2004 instructional article (http://www.engr.colostate.edu/~dga/pool/bd_articles/index.html) (specifically, see TP A.1 (http://www.engr.colostate.edu/~dga/pool/technical_proofs/index.html)).

CarolNYC
12-30-2004, 03:13 AM
Hi there,
Until your confident in making the ball 100%-play safe!

You may want to try placing the object ball on one spot,cueball on the other spot,centerball,slice the object ball in either pocket!

Good luck!
Carol

superstroke
12-30-2004, 04:33 AM
You have to be able to pocket that ball, I mean on a bar table you need to make that. I would suggest you trying a different aiming method for that shot. Try aiming the edge of your ferrule through the cb to the edge of the ob. That is left edge of the ferrule to the right side of the ob to be pocketed on the bottom left pocket. PM me if you don't understand.

superstroke
12-30-2004, 04:37 AM
Just curious, would you bet fifty on 9 out of 10 spot shots
on a 9 footer?

Chris Cass
12-30-2004, 01:46 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Qtec:</font><hr>
Thats assuming that the player can get the Qb from A to B.

What if the spot is not exactly in place? You would continue to miss every spot shot.

Why do people have so much trouble with straight shots? There is no aiming involved. It cant be any simpler than aiming for the center of the OB.

So many people say think they have a problem with aiming when the fact is, they cant shoot the Qb in a straight line.

Qtec <hr /></blockquote>

Hi Q,

I might be able to help here. You'd adjust to make the shot and the spots adjust already.

The straight in shot is the hardest shot because it doesn't have the luxury of the rails. You have only the mouth size of the pocket to deal with. So, your stroke must be straight to a point. The rails or angles rather can be more forgiving.

Regards,

C.C.

nhp
12-30-2004, 06:18 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Brick_Top:</font><hr> Shoot this shot 500 times a day from each side. Until you are over 90% on this shot, keep doing it. If you are thinking about banking this shot instead, you should unscrew and take up bowling. <hr /></blockquote>

So far I think this was the best advice. If you can't do 500 per day, do 200, or 100, but just keep practicing it until you can make it most of the time.

Qtec
12-30-2004, 11:17 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Chris Cass:</font><hr> <blockquote><font class="small">Quote Qtec:</font><hr>
Thats assuming that the player can get the Qb from A to B.

What if the spot is not exactly in place? You would continue to miss every spot shot.

Why do people have so much trouble with straight shots? There is no aiming involved. It cant be any simpler than aiming for the center of the OB.

So many people say think they have a problem with aiming when the fact is, they cant shoot the Qb in a straight line.

Qtec <hr /></blockquote>

Hi Q,

I might be able to help here. You'd adjust to make the shot and the spots adjust already.

The straight in shot is the hardest shot because it doesn't have the luxury of the rails. You have only the mouth size of the pocket to deal with. So, your stroke must be straight to a point. The rails or angles rather can be more forgiving.

Regards,

C.C. <hr /></blockquote>

CC, when I said 'straight shot'I was talking about the line of the Qb to Ob. A straight shot is full ball contact, it hasnt got anything to do with the pockets.

All I,m saying is that even if you line the shot up as a half ball shot, you still need the stroke to hit it half ball.
When I am on the golf course standing on the tee of the short Par 3, I can see the hole. The difficult part is getting the ball in there! /ccboard/images/graemlins/laugh.gif [ just getting the ball onto the green is hard enough. /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif]

Qtec

GeraldG
12-31-2004, 09:13 PM
Regarding tight pockets:

The center of the pocket is in the same place on every table. If you hit the pocket dead-center, the OB is going in. Where you run into problems is with hitting left or right of center, especially if you have a lot of ball speed or spin. The key here is to S-L-O-W D-O-W-N and use as little spin as possible.

Regarding spot-shots:
If you have the luxury of ball-in-hand, then the advice of placing the ball as described above and shooting half-ball shot with a firm stroke and topspin is good advice. If a half ball shot is not the ticket on the table you're playing, at least you have a good starting point from which you can adjust. The advice to practice this shot ad-nauseum is even better advice. Practice it until you think you’ll hurl if you see another spot-shot. Practice it from every position on the table until you can see that shot from anywhere on the table. Another one to practice until you’re sick of it is running a ball down the rail, both with the ball frozen to the cushion and away from the cushion. The big problem with a lot of these shots is that you end up turning loose of the QB. You should also practice these shots at varying speeds until you can accurately predict where the cue ball is going to end up. Ball speed control is critically important. It does you no good to pocket a ball if you aren’t going to have a shot on the next one. In match play, if you are faced with a shot like this and your confidence level isn’t high, you might consider trying to get safe instead.

Regarding long straight-in shots:

These are stroke shots, pure and simple. If your stroke is not straight, you are going to miss these most of the time. A good drill for developing a straight stroke is lagging the cue ball from the head string to the foot rail and keeping your cue extended after the shot. If your stroke is straight, the cue ball should come back and hit your cue tip dead center. You have to pick an aiming point on the foot rail that is the same as the position of the cue ball relative to the head rail. Force yourself to stay loose and relaxed and STAY DOWN. If you are having trouble with this drill, then it’s time to check your basics…foot position, arm position, head position, bridge hand, grip hand, etc. If you are not setting up correctly, this drill will be extremely difficult. If you are setting up correctly, it will become easy in short order. Incorrect setup, lining up on the wrong line, will result in inadvertent English on the cue ball. We all know what that does to your shot.