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Barbara
01-03-2005, 07:59 PM
I'm now watching the Karen Corr-Melissa Herdon match from Albuquerque and BOY! did Steve Tipton blow a call on Mel that gave Karen BIH to reach the hill.

Sorry, Dawn knew it when she first saw it but after commercials, she recinded her judgement.

I have DVR and it was a blown call. Steve Tipton should go back to "The Bob Jewett Class of You Call The Shot School" and re-learn the physics of a shot.

Hey Bob?? You out there? What's your take on the shot?

Barbara~~~should also go for a re-up...

cueball1950
01-03-2005, 08:30 PM
Now Barbara,,, Please just tell us like you see it. Don't sugar coat it for us...lololol........mike

Scott Lee
01-03-2005, 08:32 PM
Barbara...I saw that bank shot too, and thought it was a good hit! Tsk tsk tsk, Steve. Kudos to Melissa for keeping her cool, even on a bad call. She made some terrific bank shots in that match!

Scott

landshark77
01-03-2005, 09:23 PM
Ah, at first I too thought it was a bad call, but at the end of the match there was a replay. I CAREFULLY watched it...Steve was correct...bad hit.

Fleece3
01-04-2005, 01:41 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote landshark77:</font><hr> Ah, at first I too thought it was a bad call, but at the end of the match there was a replay. I CAREFULLY watched it...Steve was correct...bad hit. <hr /></blockquote>

Nope, it was a good hit. I quick and easy way to tell is this...Whatever ball leaves a collision fastest or travel the furthest was hit first. The 3 ball clearly left the rail at a greater speed than the 6. The reason for this is really simply. The ball struck first takes away some of the energy of the cue ball. Thus less energy in transfer to the second ball. There is a great article on this in this months Inside Pool.

nhp
01-04-2005, 03:34 AM
At my work today (a poolhall) my boss threw a party for Melissa and a bunch of friends to watch Melissa's first appearance on TV. I was sitting next to Melissa when they showed that on TV, and she said that at first she thought it was a bad call, but while she was there at the tournament, they showed her the shot in slow motion several times and she admitted that she did indeed hit the other ball first, so it was a foul. To me it looked like she contacted them both at the same time, but in the slow motion video she said she just barely caught a sliver of it before she hit the ball she was aiming at. We had a great time, a bunch of Melissa's friends were there and we had lots of food and drinks. Melissa is a real class act, she is very down to earth, and she will always admit her mistakes, she never tries to blame anything except for herself, which I respect alot. She's been a friend of mine for a couple years now, and I think it's kind of cool to be friends with a top touring pro who has been on tv. One thing about Melissa though, is she is so intense at the table, I've never seen anyone show so much focus and determination. On the table she goes for the kill, but in person she is as nice as can be.

JohnnyP
01-04-2005, 03:46 AM
An ultra thin hit on the wrong ball will make it move first, but not very far or very fast.

nhp
01-04-2005, 04:32 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote JohnnyP:</font><hr> An ultra thin hit on the wrong ball will make it move first, but not very far or very fast. <hr /></blockquote>

You are correct, as this was the case in Melissa's shot.

SpiderMan
01-04-2005, 07:51 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Fleece3:</font><hr> <blockquote><font class="small">Quote landshark77:</font><hr> Ah, at first I too thought it was a bad call, but at the end of the match there was a replay. I CAREFULLY watched it...Steve was correct...bad hit. <hr /></blockquote>

Nope, it was a good hit. I quick and easy way to tell is this...Whatever ball leaves a collision fastest or travel the furthest was hit first. The 3 ball clearly left the rail at a greater speed than the 6. The reason for this is really simply. The ball struck first takes away some of the energy of the cue ball. Thus less energy in transfer to the second ball. There is a great article on this in this months Inside Pool. <hr /></blockquote>

I haven't seen the particular shot in question, but the speed of two object balls is not in itself sufficient to determine which was hit first. I can hit one ball thin and it will move very little, followed by a fuller hit on a second ball, which will then move faster and further.

SpiderMan

Barbara
01-04-2005, 08:06 AM
Well if she did catch a sliver of the 6-ball before hitting the 3, then I stand corrected. I do not have a high resolution tv and the DVR didn't help matters, but I really thought she had made a good hit.

Barbara

Rich R.
01-04-2005, 10:11 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Barbara:</font><hr> Well if she did catch a sliver of the 6-ball before hitting the 3, then I stand corrected. I do not have a high resolution tv and the DVR didn't help matters, but I really thought she had made a good hit.
<hr /></blockquote>
Barbara, over on AZB, Melissa said, after the match, they showed her the shot, a few times, in slow motion and she saw that it was a bad hit.

Bob_Jewett
01-04-2005, 05:18 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Barbara:</font><hr> I'm now watching the Karen Corr-Melissa Herdon match from Albuquerque.. Hey Bob?? You out there? What's your take on the shot?
<hr /></blockquote>

I'm here but I haven't seen the shot. I had my TV antenna ripped out about ten years ago and I don't have cable.

Usually you can tell from the path of either the cue ball or object balls whether the hit was good, but not always. There is a position in which the cue ball can hit ball A very thinly and then B and then hit A again, so it's nearly impossible to make a perfect call -- it looks like you hit B first from the action, by you might have hit A first. There is also a position in which both object balls leave the collision at the same speed and the cue ball stops dead. No one can tell which was hit first. Or maybe it was a true simultaneous hit.

Scott Lee
01-04-2005, 11:16 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Bob_Jewett:</font><hr> Or maybe it was a true simultaneous hit. <hr /></blockquote>

Bob...You know better than that. A "true" simultaneous hit, on a pair of frozen balls (which is what this shot was), is about as rare as the Immaculate Conception (that happened once in the last two millenia! Apparently, it was a very close, but bad hit. Sure didn't look that way to me.

Scott Lee

ChuckR
01-05-2005, 07:07 AM
After watching a super slowmotion replay, that was telecast, there was no question that it was a good hit.
"It's not where you're at, it's where you're going."

DavidMorris
01-05-2005, 07:27 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote ChuckR:</font><hr> After watching a super slowmotion replay, that was telecast, there was no question that it was a good hit.<hr /></blockquote>
Telecast where? Melissa herself is saying that after watching a replay, she agrees it was a bad hit.

Or did you mean to say "good call" instead of "good hit?"

Bob_Jewett
01-05-2005, 12:22 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Scott Lee:</font><hr> <blockquote><font class="small">Quote Bob_Jewett:</font><hr> Or maybe it was a true simultaneous hit. <hr /></blockquote>

Bob...You know better than that. A "true" simultaneous hit, on a pair of frozen balls ... <hr /></blockquote>

One of the standard shots I use in the referee training course is to freeze two object balls together, place the cue ball along their kiss line, and shoot right between them with draw. The referees don't even have to be close to see whether I got a good hit -- they could be across the room. In this particular situation, there is no ambiguity. Except .... once in the course I managed to draw the cue ball straight back from between the pair of frozen balls. Give me 1000 shots and I think I could do it again.

Sadly, there are lots of players who don't realize that judging the hit on that particular shot is (almost always) absolutely trivial. I've had players tell me that the cue ball went to the left not because they hit the ball on the right first, but because they had special sauce on the cue ball.

DennisInMN
01-05-2005, 02:09 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote nhp:</font><hr> ...but in the slow motion video she said she just barely caught a sliver of it before she hit the ball she was aiming at. <hr /></blockquote>

If it took slow motion video to really see that she just caught a sliver of the wrong ball, how can a referee call it a foul if it was that close? I haven't seen the shot but if she did just catch the other ball first, and it was only really seen in slow motion, I would think the ref should have called it a simultaneous hit. (Obviously the ref saw it, but you know what I mean.) Now, someone's sliver may be bigger than what I am thinking.

On a related note, does anyone know of instances where a foul was called that wasn't? Should the players get 2 instant replay challenges? /ccboard/images/graemlins/wink.gif

Dennis

jjinfla
01-05-2005, 07:13 PM
Ever see a baseball umpire make a bad call? Do you know how to tell he knows he made a bad call? Watch the argument that takes place. If it lasts exceptionally long then the ump is allowing the player to vent. If the ump knows he made the right call he won't tollerate it and then it is "you're otta here". And of course the call stands. Right or wrong. Play ball!

Jake