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SnakebyteXX
01-05-2005, 07:43 AM
One intruder is critically injured after the father shoots back

By PEGGY O'HARE
Copyright 2005 Houston Chronicle

An 11-year-old boy and his mother were shot during an early-morning home invasion at a southeast Houston apartment Tuesday that ended with one of the intruders shot by the father.

The boy and his mother were treated at Ben Taub General Hospital for non-life-threatening wounds.


The wounded intruder remained at Ben Taub on Tuesday in critical condition.

Investigators said the 27-year-old intruder, whose identity was not released, was one of three men who burst into the apartment in the 9900 block of Windmill Lakes about 6:30 a.m. and opened fire on the family.

Homicide investigator D.L. Robertson said the husband had just arrived home and closed the door behind him when three men kicked it in.

As the man, his wife and their son tried to flee into a back bedroom, the intruders began shooting, police said. The woman and boy were hit, but the man made it to the bedroom, grabbed his own gun and returned fire, Robertson said.

The injured man was laying just outside the apartment door when police arrived. The other two gunmen may have escaped in a gray car, Robertson said. Investigators did not know whether either was injured.


Link (http://www.chron.com/cs/CDA/ssistory.mpl/metropolitan/2978526)

highsea
01-05-2005, 07:52 AM
That father saved himself and his family by having that gun. I hope the wounded intruder lives long enough to identify the two other guys.
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Sid_Vicious
01-05-2005, 08:35 AM
I am one for having a gun at home for protection. A run-in like this makes me wonder about the circumstances though, seldom do you see intruders entering when they know people are there, and then shooting freely. Most of the times these kinds of events takes place is due to drug robberies or a gangland vendetta, so whether the father's guns was there for home protection or whether it may have been part of his lifestyle trade may actually become part of the overall investigation. I am happy the wife and child was saved mind you but the facts around this case may very well indicate a deeper, more deliberate motive, and that father just may have invited this to his door by his actions. It just makes little sense to me that robbers would elect to simply break in, shoot everyone on a plan. Smells fishy...sid

highsea
01-05-2005, 09:12 AM
So do you think every violent home invasion was because the homeowner was "asking for it"? The intruders followed the guy home and tried to kill his family. He defended them. The cops said no charges were expected to be filed againdt the homeowner. There was no mention of a gangland killing, or involvement with drugs, so why do you make that assumption?
[ QUOTE ]
The attempted break-in happened around 6:30am Tuesday at The Cove apartment complex in on Windmill near Windwater in southeast Houston. Neighbors at the complex say they heard at least three gunshots and Houston police think this may have been an intended home invasion.

An 11-year-old boy and his mother, Regina Hearst, 31, along with one of the suspects, Marcus Brown, were injured during the violent home invasion.
Witnesses say three men kicked in the front door and began shooting. The mother and son were both struck, while the father, Eric Milburn, was able to get his gun and return fire.

One of the suspects was critically injured after being shot in the head. Witnesses say the father then walked outside where the suspect had collapsed and he shot him again.

"I looked out the window and I saw the guy reload his pistol, come back out of his apartment, shoot the guy again and my wife had seen two guys running off. I didn't see them," said eyewitness Rex Shanks.

"(There's) some indication maybe that he was followed home by the suspects. The suspects either picked him up somewhere and then followed him home," said Lt. D.L Robertson with the Houston Police Department homicide division.

Police have recovered a semi-automatic pistol believed to be a suspect's weapon.

The mother and child are both in stable condition. In fact, Hearst was seen walking around the scene shortly after police arrived. The boy gave a thumbs up as he was being loaded onto the ambulance. They are expected to be OK. Brown is said to be in very critical condition.

Police are still trying to track down the other gunmen. No charges are expected to be filed against Milburn. <hr /></blockquote>
I see nothing in the story to suggest the guy "invited" this on himself.
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SpiderMan
01-05-2005, 09:42 AM
Highsea, after reading the full text you quoted, I'm leaning in Sid's direction, it smells fishy. It's really strange MO for apartment burglars to come through the door shooting, unless they already know something about the inhabitants and expect armed resistance. I would not be surprised to learn of some connection between the robbers and victims, maybe prior business or even an arranged hit.

Also, the father walking outside and putting another round into the guy who had dropped isn't kosher, even in Texas where we can legally shoot running hubcap thieves after dark. He wasn't preventing any impending crime by finishing the guy off, so if that's the way it really went down I don't understand why the statement was made about no charges being filed.

There must be information left out of the story, either unknown, misreported, or suppressed.

SpiderMan

<blockquote><font class="small">Quote highsea:</font><hr> So do you think every violent home invasion was because the homeowner was "asking for it"? The intruders followed the guy home and tried to kill his family. He defended them. The cops said no charges were expected to be filed againdt the homeowner. There was no mention of a gangland killing, or involvement with drugs, so why do you make that assumption?
&lt;/font&gt;&lt;blockquote&gt;&lt;font class="small"&gt;Quote:&lt;/font&gt;&lt;hr /&gt;
The attempted break-in happened around 6:30am Tuesday at The Cove apartment complex in on Windmill near Windwater in southeast Houston. Neighbors at the complex say they heard at least three gunshots and Houston police think this may have been an intended home invasion.

An 11-year-old boy and his mother, Regina Hearst, 31, along with one of the suspects, Marcus Brown, were injured during the violent home invasion.
Witnesses say three men kicked in the front door and began shooting. The mother and son were both struck, while the father, Eric Milburn, was able to get his gun and return fire.

One of the suspects was critically injured after being shot in the head. Witnesses say the father then walked outside where the suspect had collapsed and he shot him again.

"I looked out the window and I saw the guy reload his pistol, come back out of his apartment, shoot the guy again and my wife had seen two guys running off. I didn't see them," said eyewitness Rex Shanks.

"(There's) some indication maybe that he was followed home by the suspects. The suspects either picked him up somewhere and then followed him home," said Lt. D.L Robertson with the Houston Police Department homicide division.

Police have recovered a semi-automatic pistol believed to be a suspect's weapon.

The mother and child are both in stable condition. In fact, Hearst was seen walking around the scene shortly after police arrived. The boy gave a thumbs up as he was being loaded onto the ambulance. They are expected to be OK. Brown is said to be in very critical condition.

Police are still trying to track down the other gunmen. No charges are expected to be filed against Milburn. <hr /></blockquote>
I see nothing in the story to suggest the guy "invited" this on himself.
__________________________________________________ <hr /></blockquote>

SnakebyteXX
01-05-2005, 10:10 AM
[ QUOTE ]
I'm leaning in Sid's direction, it smells fishy. It's really strange MO for apartment burglars to come through the door shooting, unless they already know something about the inhabitants and expect armed resistance. I would not be surprised to learn of some connection between the robbers and victims, maybe prior business or even an arranged hit.

Also, the father walking outside and putting another round into the guy who had dropped isn't kosher, even in Texas where we can legally shoot running hubcap thieves after dark. He wasn't preventing any impending crime by finishing the guy off, so if that's the way it really went down I don't understand why the statement was made about no charges being filed.

There must be information left out of the story, either unknown, misreported, or suppressed.
<hr /></blockquote>

A few years back we had a case here in Sonoma County where a Pot farmer confronted two armed intruders in his garden and shot one. He dragged the wounded intruder into his home and tied him up then went back outside in search of the other bad guy. During that time the wounded man bled to death.

The Pot farmer was charged with murder but later a jury found him innocent of all charges. A man's home is still his castle regardless of the reasons for the intrusion. On the other hand had he shot the now helpless, wounded intruder a second time - I think you're talking about a different cup of tea. One thing is self-defense and the other could qualify as attempted murder.

As far as no charges being filed in the Texas case? It means very little at this point in time. It's an open ended situation. The DA could choose to file against the shooter at any time depending on what turns up in the investigation.

Snake

Deeman2
01-05-2005, 10:26 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote SpiderMan:</font><hr> even in Texas where we can legally shoot running hubcap thieves after dark.

<font color="blue">I knew there was a good reason I moved to Texas. /ccboard/images/graemlins/smirk.gif </font color>

Deeman
going out to buy hubcaps at lunch...__________________________________________ ________ <hr /></blockquote> <hr /></blockquote>

Wally_in_Cincy
01-05-2005, 10:41 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote SpiderMan:</font><hr> Highsea, after reading the full text you quoted, I'm leaning in Sid's direction, it smells fishy. It's really strange MO for apartment burglars to come through the door shooting, unless they already know something about the inhabitants and expect armed resistance.

<hr /></blockquote>

Then again, Houston is a very rough town. I don't think this would be an unusual occurence there.

I used to visit friends down there and every morning I would check the Chronicle for yesterday's murders. There were usually about 5 a day, many of them stranger-on-stranger.

and most of them ended up at Ben Taub General Hospital. That must have been one busy ER

SecaucusFats
01-05-2005, 12:57 PM
Latest edition of "The Armed Citizen
NRA: America's First Freedom

Leon and Eleanor Cash were spending a quiet evening in their Natrona Heights, Pa., home when they heard suspicious sounds coming from the kitchen. When they went to the kitchen to investigate, a man dressed entirely in black forced his way into the house by pistol whipping Mr. Cash. When the intruder pinned Cash against a kitchen appliance, holding him down by his throat, Cash called to his wife for help. She responded by grabbing their shotgun and shooting the intruder. Ras-Saleem Hudson died at the scene and no charges were expected to be filed against Mrs. Cash. (Pittsburgh Tribune-Review, Pittsburgh, PA 09/26/04) .................................................. .................................................. ............... A Jackson, Ohio, man was not going to let the fact that he was in a wheelchair stop him from protecting himself or his home. So when two men pulled into his driveway and one broke into the garage from the back door, Roy Lundy, Sr., fired a shot at him. The intruder retreated and, shortly thereafter, Lundy saw the men drive away. When police arrived they found that, in addition to the garage being broken into, the robbers had broken in through the kitchen, although it was not immediately clear whether anything had been stolen. (The Jackson County Times-Journal, Jackson, OH, 10/11/04) .................................................. .................................................. ...............
Muskegon, Mich., store owner Michael Moore was working late one night in his office when he heard strange noises that he thought were probably animals. But when he heard the doorknob jiggle, he retrieved his gun and went to investigate. Seeing an armed man jump over the counter, Moore demanded that the intruder freeze. When he did not, Moore fired once, hitting the intruder in the shoulder. Moore immediately called 911 and waited for police and an ambulance to arrive. (Muskegon Chronicle, Muskegon, MI, 09/30/04) .................................................. .................................................. ...............
When you are a judge, angry defendants come with the territory, but Judge Calvin Shields never expected he could lose his life over it. Shields was letting his dogs out late one evening when he saw a man looking into his house. He grabbed his gun and went outside to trigger the motion detector light. At that moment, Michael Tinervia opened fire on Shields who returned fire, fatally wounding Tinervia. Shields was only grazed in the knee. It was later discovered that Tinervia had been found guilty of reckless driving and interfering with a police officer in Shields’ court and was awaiting sentencing by Shields. According to Shields’ wife, Tinervia had called the house at 6:30 p.m. that night and asked for Calvin. When the judge answered, there was no one on the line. “It was to check if Calvin was home,” she said, adding, “I had a bad feeling about it.” (The Daily Times, Rio Rancho, NM 10/13/04) .................................................. .................................................. ...............
An unwitting Shelby County, Ala., homeowner unknowingly helped in the capture of four inmates who had escaped from a Georgia prison. When the citizen arrived home early one morning, he found four men attempting to rob his house. The homeowner retrieved his gun and fired, hitting one in the face. The men fled but dropped off their injured conspirator at a nearby store so that he could get medical attention. Shortly thereafter, the three other men were apprehended in the area without incident. The homeowner was not charged, according to the local district attorney, because, “If we as a society ever get to the point where people are not entitled to defend themselves in their own home, then the law has totally lost its perspective.” (Birmingham News, Birmingham, AL, 10/13/04) .................................................. .................................................. ...............
A 64-year-old Buffalo, N.Y., man was having his regular night out at a seniors social club when two armed, masked men approached a card table and demanded money. After a round was fired from an assailant’s shotgun, the intended victim, thinking his friend who had fallen to the floor had been killed, pulled out his handgun and shot and killed one of the robbers. As the robber was hit with the bullet, his shotgun went off and hit his accomplice in the arm. The accomplice fled the scene but was later apprehended at a local medical center and charged with first-degree burglary. (The Buffalo News, Buffalo, NY, 09/26/04) .................................................. .................................................. ...............
A Jacksonville, Fla., man got the surprise of his life after he came home to find a knife-wielding teenage girl inside demanding his car keys. When the girl headed to another room to retrieve the keys, the homeowner, Richard Clark, ran to retrieve his gun. Moments later the two faced off in the house, and the teen charged at Clark with the knife. Clark shot once, hitting the teen in the face. She was charged with aggravated battery and armed burglary. (The Times-Union Sampler, Jacksonville, FL, 10/14/04)

SF

highsea
01-05-2005, 01:39 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote SpiderMan:</font><hr> Also, the father walking outside and putting another round into the guy who had dropped isn't kosher, even in Texas where we can legally shoot running hubcap thieves after dark. He wasn't preventing any impending crime by finishing the guy off, so if that's the way it really went down I don't understand why the statement was made about no charges being filed.<hr /></blockquote>
The intruder may have been down, but if he was still in control of his weapon and moving, the homeowner was within his rights to shoot again. You don't wait for someone to get back up and shoot you. As far as pursuing the other two guys, he was within his rights to do that also. These guys just tried to kill him and his family. If that happened to me, I would try to catch them and make sure they didn't come back too. You can catch them and hold them for the cops. If they resist, shoot them.

When drugs are involved, or if it was a gang related incident, the paper would have mentioned it, or at least the suspicion. None of the versions I have read said anything like that. If the guy was in a store or something, and flashed some money, that may have been why they followed him. Hell, it may have just been the car he was driving.

I can tell you this, if I was in that guys shoes, I would have done my best to finish off all three of the guys, whether they were running away or not. You don't mess with a man's family.

Better to be judged by twelve than carried by six.
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SpiderMan
01-05-2005, 03:29 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote highsea:</font><hr> <blockquote><font class="small">Quote SpiderMan:</font><hr> Also, the father walking outside and putting another round into the guy who had dropped isn't kosher, even in Texas where we can legally shoot running hubcap thieves after dark. He wasn't preventing any impending crime by finishing the guy off, so if that's the way it really went down I don't understand why the statement was made about no charges being filed.<hr /></blockquote>
The intruder may have been down, but if he was still in control of his weapon and moving, the homeowner was within his rights to shoot again. You don't wait for someone to get back up and shoot you. As far as pursuing the other two guys, he was within his rights to do that also. <hr /></blockquote>

That apparently varies by state. In Texas, when the agression is no longer present, neither is the justification of deadly force. But there are some strange exceptions - for example, we allow a deadly force response to theft at night. So, you can shoot someone running away with your belongings (if it's at night), but you can't shoot him if he's running away after assaulting you.

If the downed man (who had already been shot in the head) posed an active threat of grave bodily injury, then under our (Texas) laws that would be justification for shooting him again. But the quoted article did not specify any details of that sort, and of course, Washington probably has different justification requirements anyway. It's an extremely good idea to know what applies to your specific situation.

Based on of the wording of the article you quoted (which obviously may be slanted by the media), I am inclined to be suspicious. It just doesn't sound like this guy and his family were random victims. The head-shot intruder "collapsed" outside, whereupon the victim walked outside, reloaded his gun before witnesses, and then shot the intruder again. It almost sounds like Hatfields and McCoys, if you know what I mean.

Keep us updated on future developments, if they are published.

SpiderMan

highsea
01-05-2005, 05:37 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote SpiderMan:</font><hr> If the downed man (who had already been shot in the head) posed an active threat of grave bodily injury, then under our (Texas) laws that would be justification for shooting him again.<hr /></blockquote>
We don't really know which shot was the head shot. The story is not clear, and the witness was not in the house. The attacker collapsed on the guy's porch, according to the first story. I tend to think it was the second shot that was the head shot, if that was the critical shot, it's more likely to have dropped him on the spot.

If someone had just kicked their way into my home, shot my wife and kid, and was lying wounded on my porch, my second shot would be intended to kill him. If he was shot in the head the first time, and was still alive, he would have got another one in the head.

A torso or peripheral shot is more likely to leave the attacker mobile, even if only for a short time. If this was the case here, and expecially if the guy was still in control of his weapon, the homeowner was still within the law by hitting him again. (as evidenced by no charges being filed)

As to pursuing the other attackers, that is legal in every state. Anyone can legally pursue and apprehend a criminal if they are witness to a crime. You can't just shoot them without warning, but you sure can attempt to apprehend them. If they try to attack you again in the process, well then you can shoot them. But there has to be an imminent danger. (That can include "furtive movements", i.e, he was reaching for a gun)