View Full Version : Danny Harriman makes a big booboo at the Bike.
01-07-2005, 02:12 AM
After getting behind early against Deuel, he conceded the match.
Bad news for Danny. UPA dq'd him for the tourney. He just lost his next match as well. On top of that, he doesn't get his entry fee back and he is suspended thru the next event.
A UPA rep said they do this now b/c the fans paid to see the players play. GREAT RULE imo.
01-07-2005, 02:53 AM
Joey...This is a good rule. I am surprised to see some like Harriman behave that way! Bet he won't do that again!
01-07-2005, 11:14 AM
Wow! I guess that'll teach him.
perfect response to the conduct
01-07-2005, 11:56 AM
This is a load of bunk. If a player wishes to concede a match, it should be their perogative.
Maybe he was feeling ill that day, and decided to play anyway.
And what if he was dogging it left and right? True, the "fans" came to see the pros play, but I doubt if they would want to see him bleeding all over the table.
Very harsh judgement, IMO.
01-07-2005, 11:56 AM
I dont really like this........if he wants to forfeit he should have that right unless he is contractually obligated to do so...he shouldnt have been dq'd even though what he did was shitty....its his money and his choice...
01-07-2005, 12:49 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Cueless Joey:</font><hr> After getting behind early against Deuel, he conceded the match.
Bad news for Danny. UPA dq'd him for the tourney. He just lost his next match as well. <hr /></blockquote>
Hey Joey... I've read this like 50 times, and I can't figure out what's going on /ccboard/images/graemlins/laugh.gif. He conceded one match, then the UPA disqualified him... how did he even get to play his next match, let alone lose it??
Thank you sir.
01-07-2005, 01:13 PM
At first, it sounds like a good rule, but who really is being hurt? Why the fans of course. Now they can't get to see Danny play in his second match. Or at the next event.
I take it that the second match was rulled a forfeit by Danny and that is why he lost it. That does seem extreme.
And having watched Danny play, even talked to him a bit, I can't believe that he doesn't have anything but the best intentions for the sport and the fans.
There must be more to the story. How far behind was Danny? Sure would like to hear his side of the story. Sure hope it wasn't the case rack and Corey at the table with a Cosmo.
9 Ball Girl
01-07-2005, 01:22 PM
Tony Crosby, who was rooming with Danny H., posted the reasoning behind Danny's conceding on AZB:
AZB Thread Link (http://azbilliards.com/vbulletin/upload/showthread.php?t=9452&page=1&pp=15)
01-07-2005, 01:23 PM
There's more to the story on AZB, including reports by some pros were there, and from Danny's roommate and fellow competitor, Tony Crosby. Melissa Herndon said DH basically told Corey that with alternating breaks, he felt it was futile to even try to overcome a 3 rack lead. Which is a little ironic if you ask me, for 2 reasons:
1. Remember that Corey and Larry Nevel just recently walked out on matches, supposedly to protest the alternating break format.
2. If an opponent can GAIN 3 racks on you in an alternating break format, then it is not impossible to gain those racks right back. Sounds like Danny just gave up on himself.
It also sounds like Danny wants to take a hiatus from the game:
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote TonyC on AZB:</font><hr>I was due to play the loser of this match, I am also rooming with Danny H.
I spoke to him this morning and he regrets what he did last, He basically is not happy with pool at the moment and feels he needs to take a break, Unscrewing his cue last night has made him realise this, he is not known for being a quitter and apologises to anyone he may have upset in doing this.
I believe there are 1 or 2 promoters that owe him money from big tournaments and this is still somthing that is hurting him inside, He plays with his heart and his heart aint in the game at the moment. He is still one of the best young players in the country and i wish him luck and hope he makes a swift return.
Tony Crosby<hr /></blockquote>
01-07-2005, 01:28 PM
What's weird is he was only down 3 to 5 in a race to 11. Someone was banging on a door while he was down on a shot.
01-07-2005, 01:37 PM
it is ok if the players were told this would happen before the tournament
it is bad if someone just made the rule up after the match to punish him
if the rules are clear then you are the only one to blame if you do not follow them
01-07-2005, 01:52 PM
Steve, the UPA rep told me, Danny wouldn't be allowed to play in his next match. He was still in the winners' side until he forefeited the Deuel match.
If he already got in the money, the money would have been withheld.
He is supsended thru the next UPA event.
How would golf fans feel if Tiger Woods quit on one of his matches?
01-07-2005, 02:42 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote 9 Ball Girl:</font><hr>Tony Crosby, who was rooming with Danny H., posted the reasoning behind Danny's conceding on AZB:<hr /></blockquote>
Dang you, Wendy -- beat me by one minute! /ccboard/images/graemlins/tongue.gif
TonyC posted a follow-up from Danny saying the alternate break had nothing to do with it. Strange because a witness claimed to overhear Danny telling Corey as he quit that the alt-break was the reason. Could've been just an excuse at the time, I suppose, without really meaning it. Makes sense because somebody of Danny's caliber can certainly come back from being down only 3 games, alt-break or not.
At any rate, Danny does seem like a nice guy by all accounts and from what little I've seen of him. It sounds like he really was thinking about taking a break anyway. TonyC said Danny was at the meeting when they emphasised this rule and was well aware of it, so it would appear that he committed "suicide-by-rules" to give himself an excuse to get away. /ccboard/images/graemlins/confused.gif
01-07-2005, 02:43 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Scott Lee:</font><hr> Joey...This is a good rule. I am surprised to see some like Harriman behave that way! Bet he won't do that again!
Scott <hr /></blockquote>
It isn't clear to me from this thread whether it really was a rule, or just an arbitrary judgement. If the standard "rule" was that he forfeited only game or match by unscrewing, then it's not right to increase penalties after the fact.
No matter how many people think it would be an apropriate rule, if it wasn't yet a rule then it shouldn't have been applied. That's like a merchant raising the price of goods and then debiting your account for stuff you bought last year.
01-07-2005, 02:49 PM
Spidey, the new rule was enacted after Deuel and Nevel's recent walkout. According to other players present, the rule was emphasized in the player's meeting before the tournament, and Danny was present.
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Cueless Joey:</font><hr>
How would golf fans feel if Tiger Woods quit on one of his matches?
There is a very strong culture among golf pros to finish what you start unless you are injured. And if you are injured you tell a rules official, apologize to your partners, and go. You are withdrawn from the tournament. It is unthinkable that Tiger would act like a baby and WD from a tournament. Players that give up, even on shots or holes, like John Daly at the US Open at Pinehurst a few years ago, can be disciplined for giving up and acting a fool. Pool could use this kind of ethic, and it appears the UPA is starting to enforce some reasonable rules. I think the UPA rule and response was just fine.
01-07-2005, 05:28 PM
In that case, it sounds like he has no grounds for complaint.
01-07-2005, 06:47 PM
If this was anounced at the players meeting then Danny is just going to have to bite the bullet. I remember when he forfeited a match at the U.S. OPEN 1 year cuz he was about 18 minutes late for his match. He was so mad at B.B.and Scott Smith that he did not attend the next 2 or 3 Opens. To bad, cuz this kids got game. Just to bad their is not more money in this game for the players........mike
01-08-2005, 08:06 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Cueless Joey:</font><hr> How would golf fans feel if Tiger Woods quit on one of his matches?
I seem to recall Michael Jordan and Larry Bird playing just after throwing up behind the bench.
Even though he was losing and frustrated, you would think Harriman would be able to tough it out, although he certainly was not playing for the money MJ and Bird were making.
Still, if these guys want to develop a fan base they need to quit this type of stuff.
01-08-2005, 04:16 PM
If you show up to play, you play. Win or lose. Alternating breaks has it's problems, just as winner breaks has it's problems. Nothing is going to be perfect, but the fact is that everyone is playing by the same rules. If it was a disadvantage to Danny, Corey was playing with the same disadvantage. You don't quit just because you're losing. I think the ruling is a good one.
01-08-2005, 04:31 PM
One thing that I don't understand, it seems, from my point of view reading this thread, that we are trying to villify Danny for doing what he did. He didn't defend what he did, nor has he stated that he disagrees with it. I personally agree with the rule. If DH felt, and feels that he needs(ed) time off from the game, and couldn't pull himeslf to play anymore at that time, so be it. That was his decision. I think the general consesus here is that the ruling is proper. But there is no need to take shots at someone who is discouraged with the state of the game right now and making his outlook that much worse, even if they are unintentional. In a situation like this, a player needs to be supported, not criticized. DH is a great young talent, and I would hate to see him pushed away from the game for a single decision he made. JMHO...
01-08-2005, 06:26 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Dagwood:</font><hr> One thing that I don't understand, it seems, from my point of view reading this thread, that we are trying to villify Danny for doing what he did. He didn't defend what he did, nor has he stated that he disagrees with it. I personally agree with the rule. If DH felt, and feels that he needs(ed) time off from the game, and couldn't pull himeslf to play anymore at that time, so be it. That was his decision. I think the general consesus here is that the ruling is proper. But there is no need to take shots at someone who is discouraged with the state of the game right now and making his outlook that much worse, even if they are unintentional. In a situation like this, a player needs to be supported, not criticized. DH is a great young talent, and I would hate to see him pushed away from the game for a single decision he made. JMHO...
Dags <hr /></blockquote>
I don't really see in this thread where anyone is villifying Danny or saying that he should be pushed out of pool.
In this (or any) game, there is a winner and a loser. Nobody is going to win every time and hopefully they won't lose every time. Just because he was losing the match at that point was no reason to unscrew. His deficit was not insurmountable, and even if it was he should have still played to the end of the match. It was a display of poor sportsmanship. Danny is a better player than that. No matter what Danny's reasons were for walking out, it is bad for the game.
If a player doesn't like the alternating break rule then he should stay out of tournaments where that is the format. If enough players stay out of those tournaments, then they will be forced to change that rule. That's the way you protest something like that. Not by entering into the tournament, agreeing to the rules and then walking out on the fans.
I think Danny is a great young talent and has a chance to be one of the top players on the tour. He's not going to help his popularity with things like this, though. He needs the fans on his side. He's going to get that by giving them what they pay for.
01-08-2005, 07:02 PM
ok...I wasn't trying to defend what DH did. I think it was out of place. However, if from what Tony Crosby said is true, then Danny needs support from the fans, not people telling him what he did was wrong. I'm sure he knows that, and wishes that he didn't do that. Maybe I was just reading too much into what was written in the thread earlier. Just a missunderstanding is all.
01-09-2005, 07:52 AM
I have to wonder if Danny has some, non-pool related, stress in his life and it is affecting his game. /ccboard/images/graemlins/confused.gif
Danny has always seemed to be a real nice guy and I hope he gets himself together, whatever the problem.
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