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View Full Version : Need help this shot - Unlevel table Argggg!



Billy_Bob
01-08-2005, 10:32 AM
Playing 8-ball, I have shot in all my balls and have a shot at the 8 which is slightly off the rail. I don't want to bank it because I will probably give my opponent a shot at his last ball (if I miss) by knocking it away from the 8-ball. So I shoot a slow safety so the cue ball will make the 8-ball just bump the rail. But unknown to me, the table is not level and the cue ball slowly rolls over and hits my opponents ball - knocking it free and giving him ball-in hand. Arggg! What else could I have done in this situation? The shot must be at least medium speed on this table otherwise the cue ball will not roll straight.

[Some of the better players seem to deliberately knock one of their balls in front of the 8 like this. Difficult situation...]

http://endeavor.med.nyu.edu/~wei/pool/

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DavidMorris
01-08-2005, 10:44 AM
Are you sure it was due to being unlevel, or was it swerve? Did you happen to use some left english?

Because of the location of the cueball near the rail, you would have had to elevate the cue unless shooting with extreme follow. Any english, whether intentional or accidental, will make the cueball curve in the direction of the english, especially on a soft shot. The higher the cue elevation, the more pronounced the curve. Understanding swerve and compensating for it is crucial to high level playing. Swerve is far more common and influential in pool than either forms of throw, IMO, and must be taken into account.

If it WAS due to an unlevel table, then all you can do (short of leveling the table) is to compensate for the bad roll. This is why most players try to practice on the table they will be be playing their match on, to learn that table's behavior.

woody_968
01-08-2005, 10:45 AM
I probably would have played a slow kick and tried to hook him like this

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knowing the table rolls off I would try to "play the roll" but just make sure you dont scratch. If he gets ball in hand the balls will still be tied up, he will probably push the eight away leaving you behind his ball, but that will put the eight close to the pocket where you could kick it in or tie his ball back up.

You will most likely remember to check a table for roll off before you play next time /ccboard/images/graemlins/laugh.gif

PQQLK9
01-08-2005, 11:11 AM
If your opponents ball is tied up you might want to take an intentional foul.

I thinks the odds would favor you in getting out. Even if she fouls you back you

would still beat her to three fouls. (or him) /ccboard/images/graemlins/smile.gif

Billy_Bob
01-08-2005, 11:17 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote DavidMorris:</font><hr> Are you sure it was due to being unlevel, or was it swerve? <hr /></blockquote>

Yes the table was unlevel. I tested it after the game by letting the cue ball roll off the rail from each direction. Each time I did this, the cue ball curved quite a bit rather than going straight. This surprised me since the place I was playing at usually keeps all their equipment in tip-top condition. I usually check the table for level at places which have known bad equipment. Anyway learned a lesson. Check *every* table!

Rod
01-08-2005, 11:34 AM
Not to change the subject but as a reminder, what got you there? Did you shoot off your last ball before the one? How did the one get tied up?

Yet another question, were you playing on a bar box? If so and it was a Valley, there c/b's always roll off. Bar boxes are known not to roll straight anyway. The shot you took should have never been traveling fast enough to knock out your opponents ball. (you shot to hard)

At any rate your at the mercy of the table and ball rolls when you shoot soft. The kick woody showed is a good play but if you don't know how the table rolls, who knows what will happen, you might scratch anyway. If your opponent doesn't outsmart you you could end up with a stale mate. It still boils down to how you ended up in that position. There might be a lesson in strategy there.

Rod

Fred Agnir
01-08-2005, 12:41 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote PQQLK9:</font><hr> If your opponents ball is tied up you might want to take an intentional foul.

I thinks the odds would favor you in getting out. Even if she fouls you back you

would still beat her to three fouls. (or him) /ccboard/images/graemlins/smile.gif <hr /></blockquote>This is 8-ball.

Fred

PQQLK9
01-08-2005, 12:45 PM
my bad /ccboard/images/graemlins/blush.gif

vapoolplayer
01-08-2005, 02:02 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Rod:</font><hr> Not to change the subject but as a reminder, what got you there? Did you shoot off your last ball before the one? How did the one get tied up?

Yet another question, were you playing on a bar box? If so and it was a Valley, there c/b's always roll off. Bar boxes are known not to roll straight anyway. The shot you took should have never been traveling fast enough to knock out your opponents ball. (you shot to hard)

At any rate your at the mercy of the table and ball rolls when you shoot soft. The kick woody showed is a good play but if you don't know how the table rolls, who knows what will happen, you might scratch anyway. If your opponent doesn't outsmart you you could end up with a stale mate. It still boils down to how you ended up in that position. There might be a lesson in strategy there.
Rod <hr /></blockquote>

basically the same as rod said.......how did you get to this point? if the balls were already tied up, before you pocketed your last ball, then you should have played the safe sooner. if that is what he left you after his shot, then i would assume you missed the 8 on your first shot on it, and your problem would be an error earlier in the game. i think the answer would not be what to do in this situation, but what you could have done to prevent it earlier in the game, as it seems that the position you were left with was because of an earlier error.

thanks

Billy_Bob
01-08-2005, 02:30 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Rod:</font><hr> Not to change the subject but as a reminder, what got you there? Did you shoot off your last ball before the one? How did the one get tied up? <hr /></blockquote>

Yes on a bar table.

Actually he shot his ball in front of the 8 late in the game, so I had no chance to break it out. Had he done this early, I would have tried to break it out. But this of course could be tricky!

Anyway I had a straight in long shot into the corner pocket just prior to this shot (I think he left me that shot) so I first looked at the 8 and thought I could do the safety, then did a stun shot leaving the cue ball where it was. (Had I known about the unlevel table, I would not have pocketed my ball.)

So it all boils down to me not knowing ahead of time that the table was not level and that I could not shoot a slow accurate shot.

I did try the kick shot mentioned above on my table at home. That would have worked. Thanks.

BTW I have played another player who frequently leaves his ball in front of the 8 like this when it is near a pocket or will knock the 8 right there in front of someone elses ball. The other players and I usually mess up in this situation and he winds up winning. He has a *lot* of patience and we always mess up in some way or another.

Rod
01-08-2005, 04:08 PM
[ QUOTE ]
Anyway I had a straight in long shot into the corner pocket just prior to this shot (I think he left me that shot) so I first looked at the 8 and thought I could do the safety <hr /></blockquote>

Here is the deal, there isn't any anvantage to making your last ball then trying to play safe in this situation. You want to leave that ball on the table, then just hit it and make him make give up BIH or make a mistake. You never want to leave the c/b on the 8 end of the table.

I might choose to pocket my last ball and call safe if I left the c/b on the other end rail. Then it's very risky for him to even try to hit his ball because of the 8 being so close the pocket. If you get BIH, which you probably will, you put the c/b here.

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Then just bump the 8 making sure the c/b or 8 hits a rail which moves the one far enough for an open shot and he is hooked behind the 8.

That's just one way there are others but you left yourself in a very poor position, so it wasn't possible. Never count on a table rolling straight, put yourself in a position so you don't have to.

~~~rod, doesn't know the rules you played by

Billy_Bob
01-08-2005, 05:58 PM
Thanks for all the good suggestions everyone!

I've recently started playing in tournaments (money) which have higher skilled and better players, so what worked for me before will not work with this better class of players.

I guess I need to slow down and think about what I am doing. (Or will do that naturally when I lose enough matches right off the bat...)

Chris Cass
01-08-2005, 08:42 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Billy_Bob:</font><hr>
http://endeavor.med.nyu.edu/~wei/pool/

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Hi Billy,

Please remember that all table are different and you always take everything into concideration. Keep it simple as possible. I see you winninmg this game in 3 shots.

First let me point out that medium speed is way too fast. You must keep this shot at alittle under lag stroke. Here's the 3 shots needed to win the game.

Shot #1,

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Shot #2,


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Shot #3,


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Hope this helps.

IMHO,

C.C.

kyle
01-08-2005, 09:35 PM
IMO you should of played safe the shot before the eight as mentioned, except I would of tried to manufacture a break shot with the last ball rather then calling safe and sinking it. Better off batting the last ball around all night and letting him deal with the cluster.