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sack316
01-10-2005, 12:09 AM
oh tonight my newfound easy going attitude was tested. In league tonight we were playing a guy who does some shady things with his teams. First off he insisted on adding a new player (two weeks after the deadline mind you). We called the L.O. and she said go ahead and she'll check into it, because he insisted he has played matches with them this session, just his name wasn't printed on the scoresheet yet (yeah, right). Then he informs us he only has 4 players anyway. So we get to choose who playes twice on their side. Anyway, after their respective matches, other playes leave... leaving behind only a very good three (the only one I wouldn't have picked) to play for a second time. And on top of that she gets to enough balls to get enough conversion points for them to win the match and then shuts down to protect her 3 status. I think our league operator is going to fix it, she did say he is already in some kind of trouble... it just really bothers me the way he did things tonight. Just had to vent to y'all on here. have a good night!

CarolNYC
01-10-2005, 03:01 AM
Hi there,
I always said "team" play was the most difficult-I feel for you -hang in there-"what goes around,comes around!" !
Take care!
Carol

Sid_Vicious
01-10-2005, 03:15 AM
WTF kind of league is this that a team can be short and be allowed to play someone twice. That'd be a forfeture of 10 points every round in any league I've ever played in...sid

GeraldG
01-10-2005, 07:12 AM
It sounds like an APA 9-ball league.

It also sounds like your LO is onto it, so I wouldn't worry too much about it. Those people that can't win on skill and strategy have to rely on cheating. It'll catch up to them.

Deeman2
01-10-2005, 08:07 AM
Sack,

Is Cathy your league operator?

Deeman

SpiderMan
01-10-2005, 09:12 AM
Sounds like you're talking APA here. If the player you choose for doubling up leaves early, he forfeits. The other captain can't drive your choice by making his players unavailable.

SpiderMan

Nostalgia
01-10-2005, 09:44 AM
This is why I may leave the APA next season. The sanbagging is unbearable. People are such jackasses. It's almost impossible to stop, as well.

I've never heard of being able to play someone twice. In fact, the rule book I have here says you can't. House rule?

-Joe

Rich R.
01-10-2005, 09:50 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote SpiderMan:</font><hr> Sounds like you're talking APA here.<hr /></blockquote>
Unless this is a local rule, the APA does not allow a player to play twice. In the two APA areas I have played, if you don't have enough players, you forfeit the appropriate amount of matches.

I have heard of the BCA allowing players to double up, but I don't play BCA and I don't know for sure.

WaltVA
01-10-2005, 10:45 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Nostalgia:</font><hr>
I've never heard of being able to play someone twice. In fact, the rule book I have here says you can't. House rule?

-Joe <hr /></blockquote>
The APA Rule Book says you can only play once in a team match. However, this is under the "General Rules" section of the rule book.

The National APA website says LO's may make some modifications to the "General Rules" with National APA approval and publish them as "Local By-Laws." (They CANNOT make changes to the "Game Rules" section.)

If this is APA, I would ask the LO why they are permitting a player to play twice, when other areas require a short-handed team to forfeit the matches they don't have a player for.

Walt in VA

Deeman2
01-10-2005, 11:00 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Rich R.:</font><hr> <blockquote><font class="small">Quote SpiderMan:</font><hr> Sounds like you're talking APA here.<hr /></blockquote>
Unless this is a local rule, the APA does not allow a player to play twice. In the two APA areas I have played, if you don't have enough players, you forfeit the appropriate amount of matches.

I have heard of the BCA allowing players to double up, but I don't play BCA and I don't know for sure. <hr /></blockquote>

<font color="blue">I'm almost sure he is talking about APA as I played in the Alabama league last year. It is a allowed in that league to substitute a player of the opposing team's choice if not enough show up. It had proven to be a good thing, in general, with the opposing team having the choice as that allows everyne to ge tin a full night of play. However, it also requred that all players stay so you would have a full team to chose from. My team did make exceptions to this when a player had a legitimate reason to have to leave. Basically Alabama people are honest and we mostly just wanted to have a good, full match. I never remember having a problem with it. Again, rememeber that APA is a handicap league so there was not a lot of advantage in selecting a weaker player. Many times, our opponents would select a 8 or 9 as a 2 had a very good chance of beating us. </font color>

Deeman

SPetty
01-10-2005, 12:01 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Rich R.:</font><hr> ...the APA does not allow a player to play twice.

I have heard of the BCA allowing players to double up...<hr /></blockquote>Unless you're in Dallas...

The APA here has a local rule that lets someone play twice, but the opposing team gets to pick the two-timer.

BCA never allows players to play twice in one match.

I don't think ACS allows players to play twice either.

jjinfla
01-10-2005, 12:27 PM
Go to poolplayers.com where you can download the APA rules.
If you are the Captain you should have a team manual.

We are only in our 2nd week of APA play and new players can be added until the 4th week. When did you start the Spring Session? After that new players can be added only with approval of the LO.

The idea is to play and not win by rules or forfeits.

When my team faces a team that is shorthanded I tell the other Captain to play whoever he wants to play twice. I give him/her the choice.

Life is too short to sweat the small stuff.

Jake

Deeman2
01-10-2005, 02:03 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote jjinfla:</font><hr> Go to poolplayers.com where you can download the APA rules.
If you are the Captain you should have a team manual.

We are only in our 2nd week of APA play and new players can be added until the 4th week. When did you start the Spring Session? After that new players can be added only with approval of the LO.

The idea is to play and not win by rules or forfeits.

When my team faces a team that is shorthanded I tell the other Captain to play whoever he wants to play twice. I give him/her the choice.

Life is too short to sweat the small stuff.

<font color="blue"> I like your style, Jake. /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif

Deeman </font color>

Jake <hr /></blockquote>

Nostalgia
01-10-2005, 02:32 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote jjinfla:</font><hr>The idea is to play and not win by rules or forfeits.<hr /></blockquote>
Yep, that's the idea, and some of us get it. Others, however, do not. They will win at any cost. We have one team in our league who sandbags most of their players so they can keep low skill levels. We had to forfeit an entire NIGHT of 8-ball because we accientally violated the 23 rule and no one mentioned it until after we started playing the last game.

Some people will take any route they need to win, regardless of the intention of the league.

-Joe

SecaucusFats
01-10-2005, 03:10 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Rich R.:</font><hr> Unless this is a local rule, the APA does not allow a player to play twice. In the two APA areas I have played, if you don't have enough players, you forfeit the appropriate amount of matches. <hr /></blockquote>

Same here (Northern New Jersey) if you don't have enough players, you have to forfeit a match, however in some areas of the country the APA may grant the LO discretionary power to allow a team to play a player twice if they are short a player.

IIRC, under no circumstances however can a team go over 23 combined skill level points. In such cases they have to forfeit a match by a player whose skill level is sufficiently high to bring them back under 23. LO's have no discretionary power when it comes to the 23 rule. So how does this relate to the original situation? Simple, let's say that the four players present are all SL 5's, in such a case they must forfeit a match because the 23 rule takes precedence over the local by-law.

My team was forced to forfeit a match every league night in the winter session because of the 23 rule. We didn't get all hung up on it though and won the division final last week anyway.

SF

sack316
01-10-2005, 03:41 PM
yeah, sorry I should've specified, it is an APA 9 ball in Montgomery, AL. And yes deeman, Kathy and Bryan Ainsworth are out league operators... and they are absolutely great people. Our local rule is that if you only have 4 people, the opposing team selects someone to play twice as long as it doesn't violate the 23 rule (and in last nights case there were 3 eligible people there at one time or another). And you can do that only 4 times in a session if I'm not mistaken. And I have no problem with the rule at all... my teams have even had to play someone twice a few times. But the way he did it was what bothered me so much. To me, either your team wants to play or they don't. Be a team, or don't be a team. Nobody from my teams leaves after their match anyway... just to root on everyone else. My thought is he sent them on their way so that his uber-three could cement the match. He tried to say she was the only one that could play due to the 23 rule, but adding it up the only one that couldn't be allowed to play twice was him (as a 7).
I'm there to have fun #1, and then I also like to win and have fair competitive matches be it winning or losing. But when people try to manipulate the system or take advantage of rules that were made for teams with a genuine problem here and there, it just takes all the fun out of it.
I'm sure Kathy will be on it. She is always real good about that kind of stuff. Thanks for all your thoughts!
Oh, and BTW deeman, how do you know Kathy?