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View Full Version : Tangent points to pocket - What to do?

Billy_Bob
01-11-2005, 10:39 AM
I've had several situations where I had cut shots where the tangent was pointing to a pocket and I knew it was a scratch shot. So I have tried drawing the cue ball to prevent a scratch, but the cue ball goes straight into the pocket!

I think what is happening is that the cue ball starts out with draw, but by the time the cue ball reaches the object ball, it turns into a stun shot and the 90 degree rule applies.

So I need help figuring out what to do when I have a cut shot, the tangent is pointing to a pocket, and I want to keep from scratching.

I realize that draw shots change with distance. I.e. With a long draw shot, the cue ball starts out moving forward with a backwards roll. Then this wears off and the cue ball is sliding. Then the cue ball begins a forward roll.

So is it safest to always use follow when the tangent line points to a pocket?

What goes through your mind when the tangent is pointing at a pocket and you don't want to scratch?

Does distance of cue ball from object ball determine what you will do?

Does the angle of the cut determine what you will do?

Or do you have a general rule for all situations?

PQQLK9
01-11-2005, 10:48 AM
"What goes through your mind when the tangent is pointing at a pocket and you don't want to scratch?"

bank

GeraldG
01-11-2005, 10:57 AM
Getting effective draw on a near table-length shot requires a hell of a good stroke. It can be done, but it takes a lot of confidence to execute. Normally if I 'm faced with a shot like that, I'll either bank (as previously mentioned) or I'll try to find a way to get safe.....or both (play it 2 ways).

Nostalgia
01-11-2005, 11:39 AM
Billy,

I'm by no means an expert, but like they say, those who can't do teach /ccboard/images/graemlins/smile.gif So...

<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Billy_Bob:</font><hr>So I have tried drawing the cue ball to prevent a scratch, but the cue ball goes straight into the pocket!<hr /></blockquote>

You may be trying to draw the ball a lot by hitting it very hard to prevent a scratch. What happens here is when the cue contacts your object ball at high speed, it "slides" along the 90 degree tangent line for quite some time before the draw really "takes." This could be why the CB rockets into the pocket. Try hitting the shot with extreme draw and a softer, smoooooooth stroke. Alternately, I find soft follow (soft for the same reason) works very well avoiding many scratches like you describe.

[ QUOTE ]
So is it safest to always use follow when the tangent line points to a pocket?<hr /></blockquote>
At a large distance, I'd say yes. Since you'll have to hit the ball very hard with a lot of draw, the CB is going to slide over at a tangent like I described above.

[ QUOTE ]
What goes through your mind when the tangent is pointing at a pocket and you don't want to scratch?<hr /></blockquote>
First I'll look for another shot. If there is none, I may look for a safety. If it's a must-make shot, you need to decide how to keep that CB out of the pocket.

[ QUOTE ]
Does distance of cue ball from object ball determine what you will do?<hr /></blockquote>
Almost always, as I described before.

[ QUOTE ]
Does the angle of the cut determine what you will do?<hr /></blockquote>
Yes. If it's a severe cut, a bank or safety (or both) start looking very nice.

[ QUOTE ]
Or do you have a general rule for all situations?<hr /></blockquote>
No such thing in pool /ccboard/images/graemlins/wink.gif

Hope that helps,

-JOe

Rod
01-11-2005, 11:53 PM
[ QUOTE ]
What goes through your mind when the tangent is pointing at a pocket and you don't want to scratch?

<hr /></blockquote>

Decide if the amount of ball hit, at a certain speed and smooth stroke, allow the c/b, with low or high english, avoid the pocket. Preferably that english, or combination of, gives me position on my next ball. If not I'd be looking for a different way or pocket to play the shot. Which includes playing safe. Nostalgia answered your question very well.

Rod

Zims_Rack
01-19-2005, 12:35 PM
I can help you with the approach to the Tangent Line! Email me at michael@zimsrack.com

Thanks,
Zim

Stretch
01-19-2005, 01:10 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Zims_Rack:</font><hr> I can help you with the approach to the Tangent Line! Email me at michael@zimsrack.com

Thanks,
Zim <hr /></blockquote>

Zim! If you have something to add......please do. St.

Zims_Rack
01-24-2005, 01:50 AM
In order to be able to use the tangent line correctly, you need to be able to shoot a stop shot from anywhere and any distance on the table. If you can do that, then follow and draw on the tangent line will be much easier to calculate.
Zim

dr_dave
01-24-2005, 10:39 AM
My July '04 instructional article (http://www.engr.colostate.edu/~dga/pool/bd_articles/july04.pdf) does a fairly good job of answering most (if not all) of your questions. Also, HSV 3.1 (http://www.engr.colostate.edu/~dga/pool/high_speed_videos/HSV3-1.htm) shows (in super slow motion) how draw degrades over distance, and HSV 4.1 (http://www.engr.colostate.edu/~dga/pool/high_speed_videos/HSV4-1.htm) shows effective draw action. Several of my online video demonstrations (http://www.engr.colostate.edu/~dga/pool/high_speed_videos/index.html) also address some of your questions. Happy viewing! /ccboard/images/graemlins/smile.gif

Billy_Bob
01-24-2005, 12:57 PM
Yes, thank you again!

It was your 30 deg. and 90 deg. articles which I first read. I added these to my practice. I had been told by locals that the cue ball *always* comes off the OB at 90 degrees (wrong)! Well your article conflicted with my prior (incorrect) instruction. I kept practicing these shots and it finally sunk in that a stun shot is the determining factor here for 90 degrees.

Then my next stage was realizing that my stun shots were not stun or draw shots were not draw [by the time the ball reached the OB, things changed]. Zim's Rack helped me with that.

Also I was having trouble with short kicks and diamonds -vs- long kicks and diamonds. Someone pointed out to me that the ball was sliding on the shorter shots and not rolling whereas the ball was rolling by the time it got to the rail on the longer shots.

So now to get a 90 degree, I need to realize that I need to shoot differently depending on distance between the CB and OB. And if attempting draw, realize that my draw could switch to a stun depending on distance.

So I think I got this down upstairs in my brain. But understanding what is going on -vs- being able to execute the proper shot in different situations is an entirely different matter!

dr_dave
01-24-2005, 01:38 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Billy_Bob:</font><hr>understanding what is going on -vs- being able to execute the proper shot in different situations is an entirely different matter!<hr /></blockquote>
I think you hit the nail on the head with this statement. This applies to players at all levels of understanding and ability. For example, I often have a very clear picture how to hit every shot, and I have a solid understanding of all of the principles involved, but reality doesn't always match imagination. Practice ... practice ... practice!!! That's what its all about. /ccboard/images/graemlins/laugh.gif