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View Full Version : Product review: Zardoz NOTwax



SnakebyteXX
01-12-2005, 07:34 AM
After first seeing the product recommended in this forum, my curiosity finally got the better of me and I sent off for a 'Zardox NOTwax' kit ($15 plus shipping).

The stuff is intended to be used for snowboarding and claims that there are about 15 board applications in each bottle. If it lasts as long as I think it may - one bottle could be a lifetime supply for the average pool player.

The kit contains a very small bottle of pure Teflon solution (about three quarters the length of a tube of chap stick - and half again as big around) and a pad applicator. My first impression was that I didn't get a hell of a lot for my fifteen bucks. But after applying it to my cue shaft and experiencing the results I'm totally jazzed.

This stuff has made my cue shaft feel like I'm using a glove while playing. It doesn't rub off on my hand and it's REALLY, REALLY slick.

According to the instruction sheet that comes with it: Zardoz NOTwax is pure liquid Teflon, a patented liquid fluropolymer base lubricant from DuPont. It contains no silicone... NOTwax is inert so it won't evaporate or dry out... NOTwax instantly absorbs into the pores of most bases and is held in place by capillary attraction, like water to a sponge."

I only got the product yesterday so if anything changes over the next few days or weeks I’ll try and get back here to let you all know. To be honest I haven't tried any other products that are marketed to make cue shafts slippery so I have no experience by which to compare NOTwax with anything else that might be out there.

In the meantime, I’m quite pleased with the immediate results I've gotten from using this product.

Snake

SpiderMan
01-12-2005, 07:53 AM
Since it never dries, I wonder about the risk of getting a little on your hands and transferring it to your tip? Only fix would then be tip replacement.

SpiderMan

SnakebyteXX
01-12-2005, 08:00 AM
[ QUOTE ]
Since it never dries, I wonder about the risk of getting a little on your hands and transferring it to your tip? Only fix would then be tip replacement. <hr /></blockquote>

Good point. Although I don't generally find myself touching my cue tip directly with my hands. Chalk? - yes - hands? - no. I have a couple of old trashed house cues laying around(warped enough to shoot arrows if you tied a string to both ends) that I can experiment on. I'll see if I can't get some of the stuff to rub off on my hands and transfer to their tips.

Thanks for the suggestion.

Snake

BLACKHEART
01-12-2005, 08:01 AM
Forget about your tip,what about transferring from your hands to your mouth. ISN'T TEFLON POISONOUS...JER

SpiderMan
01-12-2005, 08:08 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote BLACKHEART:</font><hr> Forget about your tip,what about transferring from your hands to your mouth. ISN'T TEFLON POISONOUS...JER <hr /></blockquote>

I think teflon is pretty benign, as chemically inert as they come. After all, it's used to coat the food-handling surfaces of your cooking pots and pans.

SpiderMan

Cueless Joey
01-12-2005, 09:09 AM
A potential problem with Teflon is if you wanted to get that shaft refinished later on, the finish might not kling on wood that has some Teflon on it.

Sid_Vicious
01-12-2005, 09:14 AM
You and I focus on this tip contamination issue on open ends of the spectrum Spiderman, cuz I seem to remember you suggesting that the carpet at the PH was also a worry of yours for transferring junk to the tip. I say, let the chalk application cover up everything and relax on what is on and off the tip from time to time, but everyone has their own opinion and certainly their own equipment to personally maintain.

As far as the non drying issue, I'd personally worry more about it's possible adhersion to dirt and chalk dust over shorter time than with a drying type "slick'em" product. I'll be interested in hearing how the shaft stays or doesn't stay clean from y'all test driving this product. It sounds interesting enough for for me to try once the preliminary votes are countered...sid

BLACKHEART
01-12-2005, 10:05 AM
On the contrary,once a teflon coated pan starts to chip, you are supposed to throw it out. The teflon, causes some pretty bad things, once it's in your system. There was a segment on one of the local Chicago TV stations, about the health risks...JER

DennyS
01-12-2005, 10:13 AM
Here is the web site for anyone who wants to research it.
Zardoz Not wax (http://www.zardoznotwax.com/)

SpiderMan
01-12-2005, 11:38 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote BLACKHEART:</font><hr> On the contrary,once a teflon coated pan starts to chip, you are supposed to throw it out. The teflon, causes some pretty bad things, once it's in your system. There was a segment on one of the local Chicago TV stations, about the health risks...JER <hr /></blockquote>

What does a teflon chunk do if you swallow it? Does it actually get digested, resulting in teflon compounds in your bloodstream? I thought it passed through unaltered.

SpiderMan

SnakebyteXX
01-12-2005, 12:06 PM
I've emailed the Zardoz folks asking them if prolonged skin contact would be toxic in any way. Explained my cue stick application of their product. I'll let you guys know as soon as (if) I hear back from them.

Meanwhile, further reading on Teflon toxicity indicates that Teflon coated pans can emit toxic gas as the Teflon breaks down if the pans are overheated to something like 1000 degrees farenheit. Known to kill pet birds and not considered good for humans when this happens.

Snake

JimS
01-13-2005, 06:08 AM
I appreciate your efforts here. Please DO use it for a couple weeks and post the "long term" results of your study.

.........although I don't know why I'm interested because I can't see the need to use anything on the shaft. Burnishing does everything needed....... doesn't it?

catscradle
01-13-2005, 06:17 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote JimS:</font><hr> .........although I don't know why I'm interested...
<hr /></blockquote>

Because "inquiring minds want to know." /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif

Pizza Bob
01-13-2005, 07:32 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote JimS:</font><hr> ...although I don't know why I'm interested... <hr /></blockquote>

Because you're a potential googan?

Adios,

Pizza Bob

SpiderMan
01-13-2005, 09:55 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote SnakebyteXX:</font><hr> Meanwhile, further reading on Teflon toxicity indicates that Teflon coated pans can emit toxic gas as the Teflon breaks down if the pans are overheated to something like 1000 degrees farenheit. Snake <hr /></blockquote>

That sounds reasonable. I couldn't imagine the unaltered substance being a problem if ingested, considering all the food contact that already exists.

SpiderMan

SnakebyteXX
01-13-2005, 12:44 PM
From the Zardoz site:

[ QUOTE ]
What is it, anyway?

NOTwax is a pure liquid fluoropolymer made from DuPont Krytox®* R901, a distant relative of Teflon®* and a much newer technology. Commercial grades of Krytox are used in the aerospace and computer industry. NOTwax is a perfluoropolyalkylether (PFPAE), quite different from dry-film or solid Teflon which is polytetrafluoroethylene (PTFE).

NOTwax, unlike other fluorocarbons, is totally inert and won't stick to anything. So how does it stay on ski and snowboard bases? Extruded and sintered bases are essentially solid. They have no porosity except at a molecular level, but will absorb small amounts of certain liquids (such as solvents). Sintered bases are more amorphous (less crystalline) and have more ability to absorb than extruded bases.

Ordinary waxes and base preparations rely on surface bonding and can't soak in more than a few microns. But NOTwax has such low viscosity and low surface tension that it will penetrate deeply into sintered bases. It stays there by capillary attraction (like water in a sponge) until the base contacts snow (or another solid surface). The wicking action of snow against the base is stronger than the capillary attraction of the base. This causes an extremely thin film of NOTwax to be drawn out of the base to lubricate the surface. The result is that you feel like you are riding on ball bearings.

How safe is NOTwax?

NOTwax is completely inert. This means that it will not chemically react with anything. It will not burn, it has no odor, and it is nontoxic. NOTwax is insoluble in hydrocarbons, water, steam, chemical solvents, acids, and bases. NOTwax is considered environmentally safe because it won't cause injury to anything, including the ozone layer. Conventional waxes are made mostly of petroleum products and are flammable. Fumes from fluorinated waxes and preparations containing PTFE are toxic and should never be inhaled. Inhaling the fumes from PTFE can cause "polymer fume fever", which resembles a really bad case of 24-hour flu. The solvents in liquid waxes are flammable, toxic, and can wreak havoc with your skin. By comparison, NOTwax creates no fumes at all and may actually be beneficial to your skin...

NOTwax repels contaminants...

NOTwax is extremely user-friendly. There are no fumes or odors. It is nontoxic and nonflammable. It will not damage the ozone layer or your clothing. It may even be beneficial to your skin.


<hr /></blockquote>

NOTwax - What is it? (http://www.zardozcanada.com/whatIsIt.asp)

SnakebyteXX
01-22-2005, 08:19 AM
Report:

I promised to report back after a trying the NOTwax product for a few days. After a little more than one week and about 14 hours of play (couple of hours a day) the Predator shaft that I covered in the pure Zardoz liquid teflon is still pretty slick. I use a closed bridge so if the stuff was going to wear off quick - it has had ample opportunity to do so.

Subjective observation: After a week the shaft is not 'as super slippery' as it was shortly after the application but it's still 'pretty slick'.

As I mentioned in a prior post - after applying the pure Zardox teflon to the cue shaft I had to let it dry for a few minutes before use. Otherwise I could feel the teflon-like substance rubbing off on my fingers. Other than the brief drying period during which the stuff can rub off I've seen no evidence of the NOTwax coming off on my hands or anything else the cue shaft has touched. No sign of teflon transfer from shaft - to fingers - to cue tip.

Stay tuned for future reports...

Snake

JimS
01-22-2005, 08:28 AM
I'm listening /ccboard/images/graemlins/laugh.gif

Popcorn
01-22-2005, 07:36 PM
What is your goal? You only want the shaft to be so slick, too much and you lose the feel of the cue. A great feel can be accomplished with just burnishing your shaft and keeping it nice and clean as well as your hands.

Wally_in_Cincy
01-22-2005, 07:45 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Popcorn:</font><hr> What is your goal? You only want the shaft to be so slick, too much and you lose the feel of the cue. A great feel can be accomplished with just burnishing your shaft and keeping it nice and clean as well as your hands. <hr /></blockquote>

Can't argue with that.

Hey popcorn you need to attend the 2005 US Open and play in CCB IV, I think you have enough posts /ccboard/images/graemlins/smile.gif . Lots of good people on this board.

DCC finals at 10

later peeps

SpiderMan
01-24-2005, 08:22 AM
Snake,

Does there seem to be any impact on the tendency of your shaft to pick up coloration from dirt and chalk? In other words, does the teflon perhaps fill pores and block them from accumulation other debris?

SpiderMan

SnakebyteXX
01-24-2005, 11:33 AM
[ QUOTE ]
What is your goal? You only want the shaft to be so slick, too much and you lose the feel of the cue. A great feel can be accomplished with just burnishing your shaft and keeping it nice and clean as well as your hands. <hr /></blockquote>

My goal is to avoid having to constantly wash my hands or burnish my cue shaft to keep it from sticking or binding as it slides through my fingers. I want low maintenance.

As to 'losing the feel of the cue'? It hasn't been a problem so far. When the NOTwax is first applied it feels as if there's no resistance whatsoever. But, after a few minutes of 'drying' the feel is more like the 'burnished - clean hands' effect that you mention - only apparently it lasts for several days and not just long enough for my hands to get sweaty and need washing again (minutes).

Snake

SnakebyteXX
01-24-2005, 11:47 AM
[ QUOTE ]
Does there seem to be any impact on the tendency of your shaft to pick up coloration from dirt and chalk? In other words, does the teflon perhaps fill pores and block them from accumulation other debris?
<hr /></blockquote>

Could be too early to tell. However, due completely to coincidence I first put the NOTwax on my Predator shaft and used it for a few days before cleaning the shaft with Scotch Brite's version of the "Magic Eraser'. The shaft is a few years old and had been stained dark with dirt and chalk (and then covered in liquid teflon).

The 'Easy Erasing Pad' cleaned everything visible off the shaft - leaving it with an 'as new' appearance. I'm assuming that it also cleaned off the liquid teflon but short of looking at the shaft under a microscope before and after - I really have no way of knowing.

After cleaning, I burnished the shaft with a piece of leather and reapplied the NOTwax. It's been over a week now. In an effort to see if I could answer your question I just looked at the shaft under a bright light using a jewellers 10X loop. I'm not seeing anything resembling dirt buildup or accumulating chalk residue but this could be due to the limited amount of time that's passed and may have nothing to do with the teflon protecting the shaft from penetration by dirt/grime/chalk. The bottom line is that without a lot of scientific data to back me up - from my layman's point of view the shaft still has the same 'as new' look that it had after the cleaning.

Hope this helps.

Snake &lt;~~ Thinking that it's possible that the teflon may provide a protective coating that repels dirt rather than a sticky coating that attracts it - but doesn't know for sure.

JimS
02-04-2005, 06:40 PM
After reading of your experience with Zardoz NOT wax I had to try it. I did a google search and ordered it from a ski supply company out of Colorado...somewhere.

The bottle it came in reminded me of Cue Slick etc and I wondered if it had similar properties. I still wonder.

I tried it, I immediately liked it and this is unusual for me as I never use anything on the shaft other than lighter fluid to remove the accumulated chalk and dirt and then burnishing with leather. The Zardoz left a very shiney and very slick surface that I liked much better than Cue Slick or Cue Silk or Shark Oil or Karwax or anything I've tried.

I was so sold that I also applied it to the side of the tip to get a permanent shine and also to seal the edge. That was two weeks ago and I still like it...that after about 25 hours of play.

Since I really liked the results of Zardoz on the shaft and then on the edge of the tip and since my cue is no-wrap I then applied it to the whole cue from bumper to tip edge. I also like that use for Zardoz. I like a slick handle and I've got it now and without the stickiness that has always come after a few days within an application of wax on the handle.

I think that dirt and/or chalk don't accumulate as much with the Zardoz as it does on the plain cue. It appears to be much easier to clean. I haven't used the leather burnisher at all in almost two weeks and I used to use it several times a day or several times an hour while playing. I have used a microfiber towel to remove the dirt and chalk when I start to feel some grittyness while playing and this has worked very well.

I'm sold....so far...for the short run. I'll post later if I discover any negatives but so far I REALLY like this stuff.

SpiderMan
02-07-2005, 10:11 AM
Jim,

If the "active" ingredient is a microscopic teflon suspension, isn't it a little scary to get it near the tip? I'd be afraid that the tiniest bit on the crown would ruin the tip.

SpiderMan

wolfdancer
02-07-2005, 11:50 AM
Snake, I bought some Zardoz after reading your post, and my cue is now so slippery, I had to buy leather gloves, to keep it from flying out of my hands.
Seems to work pretty good, but it's only been on a couple of days now