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Billy_Bob
01-13-2005, 12:35 AM
I caught another player deliberately giving me a loose 8-ball rack in a small money tournament. I will not say what he did (don't need to be teaching others these things), but I know darn well what he was doing.

I decided to do nothing, but to watch the guy and see what else he pulled. (And to learn from it.) Anyway this guy pulled every trick in the book, standing in front of pocket while other player shooting, talking/making noise while other player shooting, moving around when other player about to shoot, going to restroom for long period during match, sharking, etc.

Anyway what should I do when someone gives me a deliberate loose rack?

Just go down and inspect the rack. Then ask for a re-rack (and a tight rack this time please)?

Confront the player and ask why he is racking in that manner and ask for a re-rack?

Other?

SecaucusFats
01-13-2005, 01:16 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Billy_Bob:</font><hr> I caught another player deliberately giving me a loose 8-ball rack in a small money tournament. I will not say what he did (don't need to be teaching others these things), but I know darn well what he was doing.

I decided to do nothing, but to watch the guy and see what else he pulled. (And to learn from it.) Anyway this guy pulled every trick in the book, standing in front of pocket while other player shooting, talking/making noise while other player shooting, moving around when other player about to shoot, going to restroom for long period during match, sharking, etc.

Anyway what should I do when someone gives me a deliberate loose rack?

Just go down and inspect the rack. Then ask for a re-rack (and a tight rack this time please)?

Confront the player and ask why he is racking in that manner and ask for a re-rack?

Other?
<hr /></blockquote>

<font color="red"> You should immediately bring the loose rack up to his attention, demand a tight rack and check for his compliance to your request.

Practically every tournament has rules that grant you the right to demand that your opponent take a seat during your turn at the table. Likewise, practically all tournament rules have provisions againts 'unsportmalike conduct' and you should not hesitate to use the rules when confronted with blatant sharking. Bathroom breaks should be limited to one per match with a 15 minute max time allotment.

</font color> SF

Rich R.
01-13-2005, 03:56 AM
In addition to requesting a proper rack, alert the TD, and other players, to the antics of the player. In general, make it very difficult for him to get away with anything.

Sid_Vicious
01-13-2005, 06:48 AM
You're bigger problems are the rest of the sharking, as far as the rack, yea I'd push him a bit for a tighter rack if it was real sloppy. Frankly though, racks in 8 doesn't really upset me cuz I can always break soft for a legal break and kill him with the bunched up mess since he obviously doesn't rely on his own skill to win...sid

loofnicnad
01-13-2005, 08:48 AM
Can an official rerack in his place?

Wally_in_Cincy
01-13-2005, 09:18 AM
loofnicnad

another Frank Zappa reference? /ccboard/images/graemlins/smile.gif

Sincerely,

Shiek Yerbouti

Troy
01-13-2005, 09:18 AM
You have the right to inspect the rack and request a re-rack.
Also, it sounds like the TD needs better control. The other sharking antics should not be allowed.

Troy
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Billy_Bob:</font><hr> I caught another player deliberately giving me a loose 8-ball rack in a small money tournament. I will not say what he did (don't need to be teaching others these things), but I know darn well what he was doing.

I decided to do nothing, but to watch the guy and see what else he pulled. (And to learn from it.) Anyway this guy pulled every trick in the book, standing in front of pocket while other player shooting, talking/making noise while other player shooting, moving around when other player about to shoot, going to restroom for long period during match, sharking, etc.

Anyway what should I do when someone gives me a deliberate loose rack?

Just go down and inspect the rack. Then ask for a re-rack (and a tight rack this time please)?

Confront the player and ask why he is racking in that manner and ask for a re-rack?

Other?
<hr /></blockquote>

GeraldG
01-13-2005, 09:46 AM
In general, I will usually trust my opponent to give me a good rack. If I have a loose rack once, I'll try to give him(her) the benefit of the doubt. If I have a second bad rack, then I will inspect the racks from that point on, and request a rerack if necessary. Usually that stops the problem. I have had a couple of guys get pissy with me about reracking. At that point, I just leave the rack as it is and get the TD to come and look at it and either instruct the opponent to rerack or instruct me to break it as-is.

The other side of that coin is people that will ask for reracks even though they know you gave them a good, tight rack. Some people will do anything to try to rattle you if you are on your game and they're not. There is one fairly high-level player in APA in Atlanta that is fairly well know for using tactics ike that. I've found that the best way to handle it is to just quietly do as he requests. Sometimes he'll ask for a second or even a 3rd rerack, just trying to get under your skin. If you just quietly and calmly comply, after a while he'll stop it. He doesn't want to get the TD to look because he knows it's a good rack to begin with. If you let him tick you off, then he was successful...that's exactly what he wants to happen.

ceebee
01-13-2005, 09:57 AM
A deliberate attempt, to provide you a loose rack, is really unsportsmanlike. BUT, in Joe Tucker's book, "Racking Secrets", there are a few "loose racks" that you can use in your favor. In my new book, I state in several places, to the breaking opponent,, "GO LOOK AT THE RACK". If you don't inspect the rack's structural integrity and or it's location on the table, how will you know how to address any flaws or imperfections. How will you know to demand a re-rack.

A rack can be mislocated, angled a bit and or loosely racked. Without inspection, you are accepting the outcome before it happens.

The "sharking behavior", sometimes needs to be dealt with in a manner of like behavior. After you have noticed such behavior, ask a few team mebers or bystanders to watch. When the time is right,"call foul" and see if the TD will forfeit the match in your favor.

Public embarassment goes a long way.

Billy_Bob
01-13-2005, 10:33 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote loofnicnad:</font><hr> Can an official rerack in his place? <hr /></blockquote>

This is just a small local money tournament. They don't have any written rules. Most of the players there attempt to give a give rack and don't know anything about a good rack -vs- a bad rack -vs- ways to intentionally give someone a bad rack.

I've never seen anyone do this intentionally before, and they obviously have no rules for dealing with it. It is not a problem in my area, just with this "new" guy who came along.

I suppose I could educate the other players by saying that if the person racking does not rack in a normal manner - pressing fingers on last row of balls so as to make the rack tight, then they should walk down, look at the rack, then ask for a rack done the way everybody else does it or at least an attempt to give a good rack by pressing the fingers against the last row of balls.


The thing which gets me about players who cheat/shark is that they are usually excellent players who can win without cheating. And they shark everyone, even players who have no hope of ever beating them.

I kind of have a policy that if someone pulls something new on me which I have not seen before [cheating], I'll let it slide. I am amused by these things and I also learn from them. And many times I win anyway.

In this case, I inspected the rack and did not ask for a re-rack. I was curious to see what his rigged rack would do. I did not make any balls in whereas I usually do. It cost me the game, but I am more concerned with learning new things at this point than winning. Had I made him re-rack, I would never have known what happens when breaking with a rack like that. So I learned something from all this.

Billy_Bob
01-13-2005, 10:43 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote ceebee:</font><hr>...In my new book, I state in several places, to the breaking opponent,, "GO LOOK AT THE RACK"... <hr /></blockquote>

It was Joe Tuckers book which educated me about these shenanigans!

BTW - When is your new book going to be for sale?
[Your web site still says "The book is scheduled for release on Dec. 15, 2004"]

Paul_Mon
01-13-2005, 03:02 PM
You've already got lots of advice about the racking problem. As to the standing in front of the pocket or elswhere around the table. First thing to do is walk around the table towards the player, make sure you're going backwards when nearing him if possible step on his foot. Bump into him every time he's at the table. Or go to the spot where he's standing and align up "something" by continually moving towards him. When all that fails tell him your not shooting till he's in his chair. I had one guy who would pull all of this when we gambled, I went right to plan B with him, I told him "if you don't sit when it's my turn I won't play." That seemed to work best. One one occasion I truly believe that a player would remain at the table not knowing that he was distracting. I asked that guy nicely if he would mind sitting when I shot, and he needed reminders. Don't get me wrong I believe in good-natured ribbing if the stakes are low or you know the person and can expect to get a little good-natured back. But what you've described is out and out sharking to gain an edge.

Paul Mon

GeraldG
01-13-2005, 03:26 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Paul_Mon:</font><hr> You've already got lots of advice about the racking problem. As to the standing in front of the pocket or elswhere around the table. First thing to do is walk around the table towards the player, make sure you're going backwards when nearing him if possible step on his foot. Bump into him every time he's at the table. Or go to the spot where he's standing and align up "something" by continually moving towards him. When all that fails tell him your not shooting till he's in his chair. I had one guy who would pull all of this when we gambled, I went right to plan B with him, I told him "if you don't sit when it's my turn I won't play." That seemed to work best. One one occasion I truly believe that a player would remain at the table not knowing that he was distracting. I asked that guy nicely if he would mind sitting when I shot, and he needed reminders. Don't get me wrong I believe in good-natured ribbing if the stakes are low or you know the person and can expect to get a little good-natured back. But what you've described is out and out sharking to gain an edge.

Paul Mon

<hr /></blockquote>


I have a friend who found another way to handle it that turned out to be the most effective thing I've seen yet. We went to play a little tournament locally about 3 years ago, and my friend came up against a mediocre player from out of town. This guy was pulling everything he could thing of, talking trash, standing in front of the pocket when my buddy was shooting....you name it. My buddy was up like 4-0 in a race to 6, and it was obvious the guy didn't stand the chance of a snowball in hell of beating my buddy. The more behind he got, the more obnoxious he got. Finally, my buddy had a shot on a ball that was about 6 inches from the pocket and straight in. Of course, the guy was standing right by the pocket and talking trash. When I saw my buddy elevate the butt of his cue, I knew what was coming....He hauled off and hit that cueball like he was breaking with a downward stroke, it hit the ball he was shooting at and sailed over it and off the table about 100 mph and hit the guy dead in the crotch. The guy went ballistic, but quickly found out that my buddy had a lot more friends in that pool hall than he did. He stayed in his chair and kept his mouth shut for the rest of the match and my buddy beat him 6-0.

SpiderMan
01-13-2005, 03:53 PM
Each year before BCA nationals, I instruct my team in how to handle the "rack nit-pickers". If they ask for a re-rack, give it to them. If they persist in inspecting and finding flaws, call the referee and explain that you have re-racked twice and can't satisfy the breaker. The referee will then rack the balls, and usually WILL NOT LET HIM CHECK THE RACK. A guy like that can't stand breaking a rack he doesn't inspect, and it rattles him more than anything he might have done to my player.

SpiderMan

Barbara
01-13-2005, 05:16 PM
Spidey,

It's very true that when a Ref racks, you cannot inspect the rack.

Everyone should remember that this May and feel free to calal a Ref over. After all, it's their job to keep the peace.

Barbara

onepocketfanatic
01-14-2005, 12:17 AM
Ditto Barbara...most of the time if you call a ref. over, the other guy gets so nervous the game is over before it even begins. I can't wait until May. /ccboard/images/graemlins/smile.gif In the event of a loose rack, I just simply ask for a tighter one (nicely). If I am asked for a rerack, I do so without complaining of hesitation. It is just a ploy to get you off balnce.

GeraldG
01-14-2005, 02:08 AM
Yep. People that resort to tactics like "putting a rack" on you and sharking in it's various forms obviously don't think they have the game to beat you. It's easy to turn the tables on them. You just have to have the mindset that you're not going to let them rattle you, no matter what they do.

LARRY_BOY
01-14-2005, 09:46 AM
The best way to discourage this type of behavier is to rack loose yourself or any other distraction he does. Trust me this will cure your problem better than complaining to him or anyone else.....

I'd rather be lucky than good.

Deeman2
01-14-2005, 10:06 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Billy_Bob:</font><hr> I caught another player deliberately giving me a loose 8-ball rack in a small money tournament. I will not say what he did (don't need to be teaching others these things), but I know darn well what he was doing.

I decided to do nothing, but to watch the guy and see what else he pulled. (And to learn from it.) Anyway this guy pulled every trick in the book, standing in front of pocket while other player shooting, talking/making noise while other player shooting, moving around when other player about to shoot, going to restroom for long period during match, sharking, etc.

Anyway what should I do when someone gives me a deliberate loose rack?

Just go down and inspect the rack. Then ask for a re-rack (and a tight rack this time please)?

Confront the player and ask why he is racking in that manner and ask for a re-rack?

Other?
<hr /></blockquote>

<font color="blue"> Liberal Answer: It will only hurt him. Let him bask in his short lived glory.

Conservative Answer: Make him rerack, then belittle him with condesending comments and harsh glares.

The right answer: Take him out to the parking lot and shoot his sorry ass.

Deeman
diplomacy in action... </font color>

mksmith713
01-14-2005, 02:19 PM
While I'm new at this game and I've only played in local tournaments twice, I have had the misfortune of having an opponent sharking me.
She bitched and complained the entire match about how I was in the wrong level and should be playing up.
It got to be a major pain in the butt.
Knowing now that these things can happen, I found a solution to the problem.
The next week I eneded up playing her again.
She knew that the interruptions had gotten to me the first time we played.
I calmly went to my jacket, pulled out my walkman, put the headset on and cranked it up.
Sure, I could still see her mouthing and complaining to anyone who would listen.
I just smiled at her and continued listening to my Brooks &amp; Dunn CD...:)
No more distractions and I tore her a new butt on my way to my first ever tournament win.

chefjeff
01-15-2005, 08:07 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote GeraldG:</font><hr> <blockquote><font class="small">Quote Paul_Mon:</font><hr>

<hr /></blockquote>


I have a friend who found another way to handle it that turned out to be the most effective thing I've seen yet. We went to play a little tournament locally about 3 years ago, and my friend came up against a mediocre player from out of town. This guy was pulling everything he could thing of, talking trash, standing in front of the pocket when my buddy was shooting....you name it. My buddy was up like 4-0 in a race to 6, and it was obvious the guy didn't stand the chance of a snowball in hell of beating my buddy. The more behind he got, the more obnoxious he got. Finally, my buddy had a shot on a ball that was about 6 inches from the pocket and straight in. Of course, the guy was standing right by the pocket and talking trash. When I saw my buddy elevate the butt of his cue, I knew what was coming....He hauled off and hit that cueball like he was breaking with a downward stroke, it hit the ball he was shooting at and sailed over it and off the table about 100 mph and hit the guy dead in the crotch. The guy went ballistic, but quickly found out that my buddy had a lot more friends in that pool hall than he did. He stayed in his chair and kept his mouth shut for the rest of the match and my buddy beat him 6-0. <hr /></blockquote>

lol...That is perfect!

I have a friend that uses a similar method. If the sharker is standing to his left when my friend shoots, my friend follows-through very quickly to the left and up. One cue tip smashed in the face and the sharker learns very quickly about standing around the table.

"Excuse me, sir, you've got your nose wrapped around my cuestick."

As for racking...In 8-ball, I use the side break, but as the opponent is racking, I leave the cueball on the head spot. This way, he doesn't know which direction to squew the rack. If he's previously seen me break from the left side, he may squew it so I can't hit the second ball very well. So I merely break from the right instead at the now larger target. hee hee

Jeff Livingston

Cali
01-24-2005, 12:24 AM
I HAVE NEVER LOOSE RACKED ANYONE IN MY LIFE!!! Sometimes I wished I had. Not really though. If my talent can't beat them then I need to practice more. I never checked racks until recently when an old friend gave me a crap rack and about 4 balls hit a rail. I proceded to runout and kiddingly said to him "it did'nt work, the loose rack" My friend looked astonished I would accuse him of such a thing because I called him out in front of everyone. My next game the opponent gave me a great rack and I broke making 3 balls and proceded to runout. I said to my friend, that guy knew I would runout if I made a ball and got a good spread and he is a total stranger. Who is my real friend? Hey also try letting the opponent rack his own if he is an ass. I love doing that because if he is trying to shark you with the reracks, I walk away and tell him rackem himself. Cali

poolboy
02-10-2005, 03:28 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Barbara:</font><hr> Spidey,

It's very true that when a Ref racks, you cannot inspect the rack.

Everyone should remember that this May and feel free to calal a Ref over. After all, it's their job to keep the peace.

Barbara <hr /></blockquote>

Actually, you have a right to inspect the rack...even if a referee racked them. However, it is the refs sole discretion whether the rack is suitable at that point.

See rules section 2.7

poolturtle
02-10-2005, 03:49 PM
Just thought I'd throw my 2 cents in. A while back, I had a problem with a guy racking loose. He got kind of pissy when I intentionally went to the other end to check the rack. So to avoid the problem, I started casually leaving the chalk at the foot of the table when the previous game was over. Then, when he finished racking, I would walk to the other end to "get the chalk" and while I was there, I would check the rack. Then make my decision. If it was just a loose head ball, I'd opt for the 2nd ball break rather than make a scene usually. If it was just a horrible rack, I'd make mention of the fact that I "noticed the rack looked a little loose". /ccboard/images/graemlins/wink.gif

Elz
02-10-2005, 04:05 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Billy_Bob:</font><hr> I caught another player deliberately giving me a loose 8-ball rack in a small money tournament. I will not say what he did (don't need to be teaching others these things), but I know darn well what he was doing.

I decided to do nothing, but to watch the guy and see what else he pulled. (And to learn from it.) Anyway this guy pulled every trick in the book, standing in front of pocket while other player shooting, talking/making noise while other player shooting, moving around when other player about to shoot, going to restroom for long period during match, sharking, etc.

Anyway what should I do when someone gives me a deliberate loose rack?

Just go down and inspect the rack. Then ask for a re-rack (and a tight rack this time please)?

Confront the player and ask why he is racking in that manner and ask for a re-rack?

Other?
<hr /></blockquote>


I have a table home, and I get them all the time...those opponents that know they need to distract you as much as possible to make you loose grip.

I admit I tried to play their game to spite them. I have learned that they will totaly lose control of their concentration and yes....I will overthrow them.


But when it comes to that point, you are not playing pool anymore.

Best way I found to regain control of the situation is not to play them at all...I play the table
It works every time.

GeraldG
02-10-2005, 04:36 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote poolturtle:</font><hr> Just thought I'd throw my 2 cents in. A while back, I had a problem with a guy racking loose. He got kind of pissy when I intentionally went to the other end to check the rack. So to avoid the problem, I started casually leaving the chalk at the foot of the table when the previous game was over. Then, when he finished racking, I would walk to the other end to "get the chalk" and while I was there, I would check the rack. Then make my decision. If it was just a loose head ball, I'd opt for the 2nd ball break rather than make a scene usually. If it was just a horrible rack, I'd make mention of the fact that I "noticed the rack looked a little loose". /ccboard/images/graemlins/wink.gif <hr /></blockquote>

I like for them to get pissy. If I'm in a tournament or an important game (money), I check the racks if it's a looser racks/winner breaks format. I don't care if they like it or not. If they get pissy, it means they are a little distracted...that's a good thing. I don't ask for reracks for the purpose of sharking anyone, but if the rack is loose, I will ask for one. You should never break a loose or crooked rack unless the TD says you have to break it. Normally they won't do that if the rack really is loose.

Elz
02-10-2005, 04:50 PM
We should find a name for "loose rackers"
It would then be easier to approache them...

"Are you a ...."
"Don't tell me you're a...."
"We got a .... here!"

tateuts
02-10-2005, 05:07 PM
It's cheating. I would advise to nip it in the bud. Check racks, make them fix the rack, and if someone is hovering, tell them to sit down. At some point these antics are going to either cause you to miss, or make you think it caused you to miss.

Last night I was matched up with a experienced player. We were hill/hill. He was standing and moving in front of me when I had open racks. This had happened a couple of times during the match. I walker over to him and said "you have a choice. You can either sit down on your own, or I will sit you down." That was the end of that. I don't like cheaters.

Chris

Toddo26
02-10-2005, 07:43 PM
I just started playing again after about a 7 year layoff. I joined a league in the small town I live in. ( we have alot of players for a small town.) I cannot believe how things have changed in 7 years. Sharking goes on in almost every game. A girl on our team was playing a guy in a match and she was on the 8 to go on the hill. Another guy on their team actually got up from his seat, walked in front of the pocket with his head hanging over the table and started shaking his head while she was shooting. I couldn't believe what I was seeing, and nobody was saying anything because it happens so often. I decided to wait til the shot was over because I didn't want to stop her shot entirely. She made the 8, then I immediately stood up and told him to stay away from the table when she is shooting. He just turned around and walked off. Players on the opposing teams always make sure to have loud conversation while its our turn to shoot, and laugh really loud. The funny thing is my teamates don't realize the severity of it because it is so common. I'm looking into playing the league in a nearby city. They seem to have a little more pool etiquette. By the way, she won the next game to win the match.

aco76
02-11-2005, 02:30 AM
Apart from referee, there's only ONE SOLUTION.

Each player RACKS HIS OWN BALLS. That way, you avoid possible bad racks and accusations, because you only have yourself to blame. Where I play, we always rack our own, always. The opponent typically never racks for you, unless it's a casual game.

I've never been to the US, so I wouldn't know...but it's hard for me to believe players allow their opponents to rack for them. Is that the way it has always been? Must it be that way? The other guy can always accuse you of bad racking, even if it is HIS BREAK that is the problem.

DavidMorris
02-11-2005, 07:08 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote aco76:</font><hr> Apart from referee, there's only ONE SOLUTION.

Each player RACKS HIS OWN BALLS. That way, you avoid possible bad racks and accusations, because you only have yourself to blame. Where I play, we always rack our own, always. The opponent typically never racks for you, unless it's a casual game.

I've never been to the US, so I wouldn't know...but it's hard for me to believe players allow their opponents to rack for them. Is that the way it has always been? Must it be that way? The other guy can always accuse you of bad racking, even if it is HIS BREAK that is the problem. <hr /></blockquote>

Yes it's customary (although not 100% universal) in non-refereed matches for your opponent to rack for you. However racking your own can lead to its own cheats. There are fairly well known (or easy to research and discover) techniques for racking to favor yourself too. Angling the rack a certain way, or leaving gaps between certain balls, increase the odds of certain balls going into certain pockets. Without a 3rd party racking the balls, there will always be an opportunity for an unscrupulous player to cheat the break.

MosconiJr
02-11-2005, 08:31 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote aco76:</font><hr> Apart from referee, there's only ONE SOLUTION.

Each player RACKS HIS OWN BALLS. That way, you avoid possible bad racks and accusations, because you only have yourself to blame. Where I play, we always rack our own, always. The opponent typically never racks for you, unless it's a casual game. <hr /></blockquote>

Another thing I have noticed about good players racking their own balls (in 9 ball) is that they will put the 2 and 3 balls on the second row and the 7 and 8 balls on the fourth row. This causes the 2 and 3 to go up table with the 1, and the 7 and 8 to stay down table with the 9, thus making the runout easier.

I like to rack for my opponent and just keep racking until he (or she) is satisfied with the rack. That way, I can place the balls in the rack in a manner that gives the least breaking advantage to my opponent.

MosconiJr

aco76
02-11-2005, 08:51 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote DavidMorris:</font><hr>Yes it's customary (although not 100% universal) in non-refereed matches for your opponent to rack for you. However racking your own can lead to its own cheats. There are fairly well known (or easy to research and discover) techniques for racking to favor yourself too. Angling the rack a certain way, or leaving gaps between certain balls, increase the odds of certain balls going into certain pockets. Without a 3rd party racking the balls, there will always be an opportunity for an unscrupulous player to cheat the break. <hr /></blockquote>

I think that if you rack the balls within that drawn triangle and it looks tight, it cannot be cheating. On tables in my club, it is impossible to rack so that the 1 ball is on the foot spot exactly. You have to position the rack so that the 1 ball is as near as possible to that foot spot, but not nearer than 1cm or so, otherwise it will not be tight. There's that draw triangle where you have tolerance for racking, so you just might as well use it.

Unfortunately, racking, undeniably the most boring part of pool is also a part of the game.

loofnicnad
02-11-2005, 08:54 AM
Wally,

Hi!,
Wow am I slow!!
Not really a Zappa reference lol.
Spell it backwards!

Loof

DavidMorris
02-11-2005, 11:19 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote aco76:</font><hr>I think that if you rack the balls within that drawn triangle and it looks tight, it cannot be cheating. On tables in my club, it is impossible to rack so that the 1 ball is on the foot spot exactly. You have to position the rack so that the 1 ball is as near as possible to that foot spot, but not nearer than 1cm or so, otherwise it will not be tight. There's that draw triangle where you have tolerance for racking, so you just might as well use it.<hr /></blockquote>
Well, many (most?) tables do not have the triangle drawn on them, at least over here -- I've seen very few actually. And even inside a triangle, you can have millimeter gaps that can only be detected upon close inspection, but are large enough to change the outcome of the break.

Joe Tucker's Racking Secrets is a useful book for rack analysis. It describes several different racking scenarios and how the balls will tend to move given certain gaps and angles with certain hits.

Bob_Jewett
02-11-2005, 12:10 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote aco76:</font><hr> ...
I think that if you rack the balls within that drawn triangle and it looks tight, it cannot be cheating. ... <hr /></blockquote>
Hand racks are almost never tight. How you rack at least partly determines which balls are touching. Which balls are touching determines how the rack breaks. Clever people have studied how this last part works.

If you accept my statements, I think you have to abandon yours.

poolturtle
02-11-2005, 05:31 PM
You're right, and in money games and tournament games, I do say something. I was talking about casual bar games that aren't for anything but table time.

Sorry, should have been more specific