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LARRY_BOY
01-19-2005, 07:04 AM
Here is a little test to see if you have a straight stroke. Put a object ball on the spot and the cue ball behind it, now hit the cue into the ob and run it the length of the table. If you got stroke the ob will return and hit the cue ball into the near rail and bounce back to hit the ob. This sounds simple but in practice it separates the men from the boys. Try it you might like it!

I'd rather be lucky than good........

Jude_Rosenstock
01-19-2005, 10:48 AM
And I always thought pocketing a ball 6 feet out and drawing nearly 2 lengths of the table seperated the men from the boys. I guess I have to get my priorities in order.

Jude M. Rosenstock

LARRY_BOY
01-19-2005, 12:27 PM
Wait a minute.......if I draw the ball TWO lengths of the table couldn't I just pocket the ball that was six feet away with a stun shot? Seems like the result would be the same.

I'd rather be lucky than good........

SpiderMan
01-19-2005, 12:47 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote LARRY_BOY:</font><hr> Here is a little test to see if you have a straight stroke. Put a object ball on the spot and the cue ball behind it, now hit the cue into the ob and run it the length of the table. If you got stroke the ob will return and hit the cue ball into the near rail and bounce back to hit the ob. This sounds simple but in practice it separates the men from the boys. Try it you might like it!
I'd rather be lucky than good........ <hr /></blockquote>

C'mon, have you actually tried that? What's your percentage?

I doubt I would make it in ten tries. I'm assuming you don't "cheat" by drawing the cue ball back closer to the end rail.

SpiderMan

Jude_Rosenstock
01-19-2005, 12:53 PM
I can give you plenty of scenarios where the results wouldn't be the same! PLENTY!

Cueless Joey
01-19-2005, 01:19 PM
I don't like non-real world scenario shots. Shots that rarely come up. /ccboard/images/graemlins/tongue.gif WEI (http://endeavor.med.nyu.edu/%7Ewei/pool/pooltable2.html)
I like this one. Just shoot the ball in and don't let the cue wobble to the left or right.
START(
%Ah1Z5%BL7P8%CJ5O4%DL7N1%EM7P1%FK6P1%GK6N8%HM7N8%I L7O4%JK6M5
%KJ5P7%LJ5N2%MK6Q4%NJ5R0%OJ5M0%PO0Z4
)END

LARRY_BOY
01-19-2005, 01:20 PM
Truthfuly I can say that I have tried this many many times. I can say that I successfully have done it once. Origanally I kept track,I happen to be a very logical type of guy, but soon realized that the ratio would be to depressing to continue recording the results......try it everybody likes a chalange.

GeraldG
01-19-2005, 01:37 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote LARRY_BOY:</font><hr> Truthfuly I can say that I have tried this many many times. I can say that I successfully have done it once. Origanally I kept track,I happen to be a very logical type of guy, but soon realized that the ratio would be to depressing to continue recording the results......try it everybody likes a chalange. <hr /></blockquote>

I'll tell you what, Larry...it sounds like more than a challenge to me. It sounds like something that I would NOT be able to accomplish...and I have a decent stroke. My drill for keeping my stroke straight is just lagging the cueball with a medium stroke and keeping my cue extended and letting the cueball come back and hit my cue tip...that's hard enough for me to do 10 times out of 10.

Jude_Rosenstock
01-19-2005, 01:42 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Cueless Joey:</font><hr> I don't like non-real world scenario shots. Shots that rarely come up. /ccboard/images/graemlins/tongue.gif WEI (http://endeavor.med.nyu.edu/%7Ewei/pool/pooltable2.html)
I like this one. Just shoot the ball in and don't let the cue wobble to the left or right.
START(
%Ah1Z5%BL7P8%CJ5O4%DL7N1%EM7P1%FK6P1%GK6N8%HM7N8%I L7O4%JK6M5
%KJ5P7%LJ5N2%MK6Q4%NJ5R0%OJ5M0%PO0Z4
)END <hr /></blockquote>

Are we speaking of drawing the ball back two lengths? If you're capable of doing it, you'd be surprised how often it DOES come up. (sorry, Wei's table won't work on my PC) The fact is, the stroke is an important weapon to have, especially if you play ANY rotation game. The ability to employ a massive amount of draw opens up so many possibilities.

Once, when I was playing Mika Immonen, he was near straight on a steep angle into the side and needed to get the cue-ball to the other side of the table. He ended up drawing into a three rail position that was just beautiful to watch. I swear, even against Mika, I thought there was a decent chance I'd get back to the table. He manufactured something out of nothing which is really what makes him the player he is.

Thinking that having a draw-range of two table lengths or more is unpractical is merely limiting your game. It may not be necessary for adequacy but if your goal is to be proficient, it is absolutely essential.

Jude M. Rosenstock

GeraldG
01-19-2005, 01:53 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Jude_Rosenstock:</font><hr> <blockquote><font class="small">Quote Cueless Joey:</font><hr> I don't like non-real world scenario shots. Shots that rarely come up. /ccboard/images/graemlins/tongue.gif WEI (http://endeavor.med.nyu.edu/%7Ewei/pool/pooltable2.html)
I like this one. Just shoot the ball in and don't let the cue wobble to the left or right.
START(
%Ah1Z5%BL7P8%CJ5O4%DL7N1%EM7P1%FK6P1%GK6N8%HM7N8%I L7O4%JK6M5
%KJ5P7%LJ5N2%MK6Q4%NJ5R0%OJ5M0%PO0Z4
)END <hr /></blockquote>

Are we speaking of drawing the ball back two lengths? If you're capable of doing it, you'd be surprised how often it DOES come up. (sorry, Wei's table won't work on my PC) The fact is, the stroke is an important weapon to have, especially if you play ANY rotation game. The ability to employ a massive amount of draw opens up so many possibilities.

Once, when I was playing Mika Immonen, he was near straight on a steep angle into the side and needed to get the cue-ball to the other side of the table. He ended up drawing into a three rail position that was just beautiful to watch. I swear, even against Mika, I thought there was a decent chance I'd get back to the table. He manufactured something out of nothing which is really what makes him the player he is.

Thinking that having a draw-range of two table lengths or more is unpractical is merely limiting your game. It may not be necessary for adequacy but if your goal is to be proficient, it is absolutely essential.

Jude M. Rosenstock <hr /></blockquote>

I agree. As a matter of fact, I make it a point to practice executing long draw shots and combining sidespin with extreme draw. To me, nothing is harder to control...it's sort of unnatural to me, so I have to practice it. What gives me a lot of problem (and I'm sure it gives other people trouble too) is when the cueball and the OB are near table-length apart and you need a lot of draw. I can consistently get a half-table draw under those circumstances, and occasionally will get THE hit and get table-length draw out of it, but that's not nearly consistent enough to have enough faith in it to try it under pressure or a must-do tournament situation. I can tell when the stroke and hit are right by the sound of the cue hitting the cueball.

Jude_Rosenstock
01-19-2005, 02:00 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote GeraldG:</font><hr> I can tell when the stroke and hit are right by the sound of the cue hitting the cueball. <hr /></blockquote>

Actually, most people feel it in the feedback. The vibration of the cue is different.

Jude M. Rosenstock

GeraldG
01-19-2005, 02:13 PM
Yep..but the sound of the hit is different, too.

Jude_Rosenstock
01-19-2005, 02:18 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote GeraldG:</font><hr> Yep..but the sound of the hit is different, too. <hr /></blockquote>

Yeah but you know it, no matter how loud the jukebox is. Try it out the next time you play when it's busy.

Jude M. Rosenstock

GeraldG
01-19-2005, 02:31 PM
It's kind of amazing to me how many different types of input we process and use when playing pool. A lot of the time, if I miss a shot, I know it as soon as I pull the trigger. I don't even really need to watch the balls...and the same if I hit it good. I know as soon as I hit it. It just felt right. It's not something I can describe or even know exactly what it is about it that felt right or wrong, it just did.

Deeman2
01-19-2005, 02:48 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote LARRY_BOY:</font><hr> Here is a little test to see if you have a straight stroke. Put a object ball on the spot and the cue ball behind it, now hit the cue into the ob and run it the length of the table. If you got stroke the ob will return and hit the cue ball into the near rail and bounce back to hit the ob. This sounds simple but in practice it separates the men from the boys. Try it you might like it!

I'd rather be lucky than good........ <hr /></blockquote>

<font color="blue"> IMHO, a nicer test is to stack 10 crisp \$100 bills on the end rail and play a race to nine.

That will really check how straight your stroke is. </font color>

Jude_Rosenstock
01-19-2005, 02:57 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote GeraldG:</font><hr> It's kind of amazing to me how many different types of input we process and use when playing pool. A lot of the time, if I miss a shot, I know it as soon as I pull the trigger. I don't even really need to watch the balls...and the same if I hit it good. I know as soon as I hit it. It just felt right. It's not something I can describe or even know exactly what it is about it that felt right or wrong, it just did. <hr /></blockquote>

Actually, it's incredibly amazing. It's an automatic calculation that's processed so quickly, your conscious mind can't even comprehend it. All you can do is just go with the flow.

Jude M. Rosenstock

Scott Lee
01-19-2005, 04:43 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote GeraldG:</font><hr> I'll tell you what, Larry...it sounds like more than a challenge to me. It sounds like something that I would NOT be able to accomplish...and I have a decent stroke. My drill for keeping my stroke straight is just lagging the cueball with a medium stroke and keeping my cue extended and letting the cueball come back and hit my cue tip...that's hard enough for me to do 10 times out of 10. <hr /></blockquote>

Amen Gerald!...and if you get to the point where you can do it 10 out of 10 tries, just up your stroke speed to what we call a "6" or even a "9", which is break speed. You'll be lucky if you can accomplish it once out of 10 (without a lot of practice)!

Scott Lee

Jimmy Mendoza
01-19-2005, 05:02 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote LARRY_BOY:</font><hr> Here is a little test to see if you have a straight stroke. Put a object ball on the spot and the cue ball behind it, now hit the cue into the ob and run it the length of the table. If you got stroke the ob will return and hit the cue ball into the near rail and bounce back to hit the ob. This sounds simple but in practice it separates the men from the boys. Try it you might like it!

I'd rather be lucky than good........ <hr /></blockquote>

So I'm reading your description here and I'm thinking I'd have no chance of doing this. The object ball comes back, hits the cue ball to the end rail, then the cue ball bounces back up and hits the object ball for a THIRD time??

Scott Lee
01-19-2005, 05:19 PM
Jimmy...Yep, that's what he's describing! LOL Pretty TOUGH, huh? We used to practice something similar, where you put the OB on the spot, play a stopshot on the CB, and have the OB come straight back and rest against the CB. That is PLENTY tough too...however I could usually get it in 5 tries! I'm agreeing with you here, that adding that last little bit would just about make this impossible...and
to be able to do it consistently??? I'd bet Efren couldn't even do it! LOL BTW, congrats on your recent great finish!

Scott Lee

01-20-2005, 06:14 AM
Tried it.....
Frustrated.....
Thanks, Larry /ccboard/images/graemlins/tongue.gif jk

Actually, I have tried this several times while playing with Larry, all I can say is you need to have a good sense of humor about it. However, it does help improve your aiming and it demonstrates (like we need more examples) of how a small error in angle judgement really adds up over distance.

Loof

HallofFame
01-20-2005, 08:39 AM
Isn't it nice the game has gotten SO easy thay players can draw two and three table lengths; try that on 80/20 Mali and see what happens.

I agree with Earl; "4 1/2 inch pockets, move the spot up one inch and let's play some pool", I'd also install 80/20. Now let's see who can play pool! No more "bar table position" for Johnny A.; he better get his A## RIGHT ON THE OBJECT BALL. No more three table length draws for Efron R; sorry Efron, got to get back to some SERIOUS POSITION play. Oh Yeah, and everybody can now forget about their CRUSHING breaks; they're gone too.

Of course we ALL know I'm dreaming, TV would NEVER stand for anything like that; WOULD THEY???

HOF

ceebee
01-20-2005, 09:49 AM
Hey DeeMan, how come you always gotta "get to the point"? Do you ever SUGAR COAT something?

Actually the drill of shooting the cue ball into an object ball, causing the object ball to rebound off the far rail &amp; come back straight enough to hit the cueball is "diifoivcult" enough for me.

Controlling Whitey &amp; an object ball on wire has to be trick.