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ryushen21
01-24-2005, 01:27 PM
I know that there has been a lot discussion on stroke issues on the board lately. So I figure that i will come in with a question of my own.

I work with Scott Lee when i have the chance and i have developed a pretty good pendulum stroke. It seems to me that the whole idea behind this is isolating the arm movement to create a more precise and effective stroke.

I was at a local pool room recently and saw a few players that seem to have isolated almost their entire stroke down the to just the wrist and lower. Has anyone else seen this. They seem to be generating quite a bit of power and have no problem running a table. There was a little movement in the forearm are but nothing along the lines of a standard pendulum stroke. It was baffling to watch these guys because they were so precise with so little movement.

Is it possible that this is the next step in stroke isolation/evolution?

SpiderMan
01-24-2005, 03:35 PM
I know at least one good player who incorporates a lot of wrist motion in his stroke, sort of like the "snap" at the focus of a karate punch. He probably only gets about 2 or 3 inches of movement below the wrist, but it catches your attention so you don't focus on his forearm motion, which is still there.

Are you sure that these players can actually shoot firm shots while maintaining a motionless arm? Or is there arm movement, but the wrist motion takes over just before contact? The analogy I think of is that the arm is the "booster" at liftoff, then the wrist motion kicks in as the "second stage".

Back when I was trying to learn darts, I viewed an online animation of the dart-throwers stroke and release. It was similar to what I just described, a more leisurely arm motion followed by a flick of the wrist.

SpiderMan

Rod
01-24-2005, 06:30 PM
If one uses a a fair amount of wrist flex, there will also be some lower arm movment. Otherwise, it's just a flick of the wrist. That move generates very little power and isn't very accurate. You missed the arm movment, which may not be all that much for slow to med slow speeds.

The slight arm movment leads the wrist and it releases through impact, but it shouldn't get in front of the lower arm until after impact. That is the sign of a good release as far as wrist is concerned. Rarely is a wrist released before impact, specialty shot perhaps to deaden or kill the c/b.

Rod

ryushen21
01-24-2005, 06:59 PM
I'll have to watch a little more closely the next time that i see them play because I didn't notice much forearm movement at all, with the exception of their break shots.

I also noticed that they hit about 75% of their shots reasonably soft. No more than what most would consider a lag stroke and they didn't use a whole lot of english other than follow or draw. And they were very accurate.

As far as the actual motion goes, yes, it was like a very firm snap of the wrist that you would find in Karate punches. And I think that element may give hem a lot of acceleration and power. But i will watch again to see if there is more forearm movement than i saw initially.

paulfr
01-25-2005, 03:36 AM
You said they were hitting pretty softly.
Were they playing 8Ball, 9Ball or 14.1 ?

There are lots of short shots in 8 but in 9, you need
to go length of table often so soft strokes might
not work very well.
But the concept is interesting.

In golf there is a similar technique of using a wrist only stroke for putts inside 10 ft. The general orthodox teaching is an arm/pendulum swing with no wrist, so this violates a sacred principle for many.
Interesting parallel.

wolfdancer
01-25-2005, 06:43 AM
Why would you use your wrist on a putting stroke....when it chages the angles on the putter face? Just curious...

ryushen21
01-25-2005, 02:43 PM
They were mostly playing 9-ball and One Pocket. And i guess that i can kind of understand the soft stroke from the One Pocket perspective. But as far as 9-ball there were times wheni was expecting them to really juice up a shot and the just used a soft stroke and got everything that they needed out of it.

Rod
01-25-2005, 03:15 PM
[ QUOTE ]
there were times wheni was expecting them to really juice up a shot and the just used a soft stroke and got everything that they needed out of it.
<hr /></blockquote>

That's how the game should be played! You'll find, an accurate stroke, contacting the c/b exact, needs very little effort.

Rod

nhp
01-26-2005, 04:23 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Rod:</font><hr> If one uses a a fair amount of wrist flex, there will also be some lower arm movment. Otherwise, it's just a flick of the wrist. That move generates very little power and isn't very accurate. You missed the arm movment, which may not be all that much for slow to med slow speeds.

The slight arm movment leads the wrist and it releases through impact, but it shouldn't get in front of the lower arm until after impact. That is the sign of a good release as far as wrist is concerned. Rarely is a wrist released before impact, specialty shot perhaps to deaden or kill the c/b.

Rod
<hr /></blockquote>

I agree with you here 100%. I noticed the other day that when I take my practice strokes, I tighten my wrist up slightly, and it has been causing me to twist my cue. What I do now is get down into my stance, and let my forearm hang down, with no muscle tension anywhere in my arm. My wrist automatically 'falls' into a comfortable position, and I maintain that position all throughout the stroke. All of a sudden my stroke became alot more straight, and I was having no problem maneuvering the cue ball all around the table. My wrist is loose, but it's not so loose that I flick it when I shoot. When I stroke my wrist doesn't wobble, it just stays completely still with my forearm, even though it is pretty loose.

It's AMAZING what one little minor adjustment can do for your game. This may be the end of my very long slump! /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif