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Barbara
05-27-2002, 03:26 PM
Hey all, I need some input on a couple things. My partner in NEWT and I just got our new Regional Tour Coordinator Handbooks from the WPBA. Being the professional organization they are, they made some changes, but forgot to mark what they changed, forcing me to go over the whole thing searching for the changes.

Item #9 now states that:

9. Regional Tour WPBA Membership Dues - All Regional Tour members are required to pay a discounted WPBA annual membership cost of $25 each. This is collected by the Regional Tour Coordinator along with the member application and is to be forwarded to the WPBA Regional Tour Director. This membership fee is to pay for all costs associated with the production of Regional Tour associated activities incurred by the WPBA office. Membership fees are renewable each January 1st.

First of all, it is NOT my job to do the WPBA's job of collecting their membership dues. And what the %&#@! do they do for ME, my co-RTC, and NEWT except demand insane "sponsorship fees" to host qualifiers??! I'm just a little hot under the collar about this, can you tell? Any other RTCs out there that feel the same way? Can anyone else out there justify why I have to do the WPBA's job?

And Kelly or Jan, if you're lurking out there and reading this, I'm going to fight you on this ALL THE WAY!!! This is YOUR job, not mine!! Got an Executive Director or Membership Director that has a little time on their hands beacuse they're costing you thousands of $$$ because they're not doing their job and collecting the membership dues?? Get real!!

And because of one of the aforementioned WPBA Board Directors, the PA State Women's 9-Ball Championship is up for grabs. Harry Metzger of Rack Em Up in Frazer has had it with the WPBA and the crappy way they treated him last year. I'm sorry for Harry and will miss the room. He's been hosting it for about 8 years now.

So now I'm trying to shop this event around and have gotten a real eye-opener. It seems that to host a SC with a WPBA qualifier, you have to become a Gold member of the WPBA which costs $500 a year. Wooohooo!! And guess what door prizes you get for $500 -

1. A monthly WPBA newsletter (yeah, tell that to Richie Sacco who's been host of the NJ SC for the past 8 years and hasn't gotten one yet. Other things are more regular on a monthly basis with the WPBA than their newsletter /ccboard/images/icons/wink.gif! )
2. A WPBA membership certificate (it's a crapshoot if you get your member card after you pay your dues.)
3.One WPBA media guide (Jan's $2000 baby, and you get to read up on the sordid pasts of many of your fave Pros.)
4. Eligibility to host more qualifiers and tournaments up to WPBA events (for $20,000 you too can host a WPBA event.)
5. A WPBA autographed Tour Poster (did we mention autographed!!!! - haven't seen one of these in years)
6. One picture pack set of 20 Touring Pros (sorry - not autographed and you pay for your own framing.)

Is it a wonder the room owners aren't beating down my door for this SC??

Is it me or is this $500 Patron Sponsor Fee just a little ridiculous??

Barbara~~~hopes everyone had a safe and happy weekend

Tom_In_Cincy
05-27-2002, 03:48 PM
Barbara,

Its ridiculous. Absolutely!

How long has this been going on? at least 8 years.. and now they want more? and what are they going to give you in return? the chance to break into the top 24 players?

I say, that if the regional tours combine their efforts, they will be able to be heard.

The WPBA may not think they need RTs. But they will eventually.

Good Luck Barbara, and let us know if we can do anything to help

Doctor_D
05-27-2002, 03:52 PM
Good evening Barbara:

As a Platinum Patron Member of the WPBA, with which I am entitled to host a regional tour event, you can use my sponsorship position to hold an event.

Dr. D.

Barbara
05-27-2002, 04:00 PM
Dr. D,

How can I do that?

Barbara

Troy
05-27-2002, 04:01 PM
Sounds like the WPBA has the Regional Tours between the proverbial rock and a hard place.

If the RT's balk about the fees, what's next ??? NO QUALIFIER. The result of no qualifiers being that you ladies wanting to further yourselves are punished.

Shameful comes to mind...... /ccboard/images/icons/frown.gif

Has the WPBA learned how to shoot themsilves in the foot from the "Men's Tour" ???

Troy

Doctor_D
05-27-2002, 04:03 PM
Good evening;

If there are NO qualifiers then there will no longer be sufficient players for a 64 player field. Eliminate the 64 player field and old turf's will no longer be threatened.

Dr. D.

Rich R.
05-27-2002, 04:06 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote: Troy:</font><hr> Sounds like the WPBA has the Regional Tours between the proverbial rock and a hard place.

If the RT's balk about the fees, what's next ??? NO QUALIFIER. The result of no qualifiers being that you ladies wanting to further yourselves are punished.

Shameful comes to mind...... /ccboard/images/icons/frown.gif

Has the WPBA learned how to shoot themsilves in the foot from the "Men's Tour" ???

Troy <hr></blockquote>
Troy, you may be missing the point. To take it all one step farhter, no qualifiers means that the current pros, and board members, are protected from the young, upcoming, talented players from the regional tours. The old guard maintanes their status. Rich R.

Barbara
05-27-2002, 04:07 PM
Tom,

Here's how it went for my first pitch:

I called up this room owner that I have a lot of respect for since he's a top notch player and also hosts tour stops for Joss and Tim Scruggs.

So I tell him it's going to cost him $2000 right off the bat. Then I tell him the breakdown of the monies - WPBA requires $1000 added for an SC, $500 for the qualifier, and $500 for the Gold membership and I tell him he'll get free advertising and a Pechauer cue that retails for the amount added. He tells me that if he had to add $1500 and $500 for the qualifier he'd do it, but just don't tell him he has to give the WPBA $500. He doesn't want to get involved with the WPBA. I called him back in a couple days and he decided to decline even after I read him the list of "door prizes" he gets for his $500. (gee! can you imagine?)

This is ugly and it's going to get uglier.

Barbara

Troy
05-27-2002, 04:13 PM
My point exactly. The term CYA comes to mind.

<blockquote><font class="small">Quote: Doctor_D:</font><hr> Good evening;

If there are NO qualifiers then there will no longer be sufficient players for a 64 player field. Eliminate the 64 player field and old turfs will no longer be threatened.

Dr. D.
<hr></blockquote>

Troy
05-27-2002, 04:14 PM
My point exactly. The term CYA comes to mind.

<blockquote><font class="small">Quote: Rich R.:</font><hr> &lt;blockquote&gt;&lt;font class="small"&gt;Quote: Troy:&lt;/font&gt;&lt;hr&gt; Sounds like the WPBA has the Regional Tours between the proverbial rock and a hard place.

If the RT's balk about the fees, what's next ??? NO QUALIFIER. The result of no qualifiers being that you ladies wanting to further yourselves are punished.

Shameful comes to mind...... /ccboard/images/icons/frown.gif

Has the WPBA learned how to shoot themsilves in the foot from the "Men's Tour" ???

Troy &lt;hr&gt;&lt;/blockquote&gt;
Troy, you may be missing the point. To take it all one step farhter, no qualifiers means that the current pros, and board members, are protected from the young, upcoming, talented players from the regional tours. The old guard maintanes their status. Rich R. <hr></blockquote>

Tom_In_Cincy
05-27-2002, 04:17 PM
Exactly how do you get room owners to partake in the SC if they aren't going to make any money?

Barbara
05-27-2002, 04:18 PM
Troy,

We're the ones cultivating the new crop, NOW they want us to collect their dues, too? This is what frosts me the most.

The Board of Directors is not doing their job and paying some ungodly amount to Trifecta for what?

And rememeber Fran mentioning that she paid PLPROMOTIONS $850 for her entry and room for Vegas and wondered if she paid an $850 entry fee since her room was comped?? Guess what?! Her room WAS comped!! What happened to the other $350?? Hmmmmmm....

What a ripoff!! I'm this close to giving NEWT up.

Barbara

Barbara
05-27-2002, 04:24 PM
Tom,

They don't make any money unless they have a room big enough to accomodate us along with their other regulars, maybe a liquor license, and a full menu.

This is why we're looking for more sposors to give the RO more stuff. Pechauer's great!! They sent Comet Billiards a sweet cue and Bill brought it out and asked whether it was part of the prize fund. You should've seen his face when I told him it was for him and Marsha. Then the employees started chiming in how it should go to "Employee of the Month"!! LOL!!

This is why I bring pecans with me, too. The room owners actually lose money with us regional tours. They do it for the love and promotion of the sport just like I do.

Barbara

05-27-2002, 08:43 PM
I just read in another thread that the men don't have an organzation like the WBPA or a tour. And they make a lot more money and have more tournaments. So why do the women need one? Maybe you should all get together and dump it. Or maybe start a new one. It seems like even if it isn't holding the women back any, it surely doesn't seem to be helping the women any. I know practically nothing about this. I'm just going by what I read in another thread.

05-27-2002, 09:06 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote: Tom_In_Cincy:</font><hr> Barbara,

I say, that if the regional tours combine their efforts, they will be able to be heard.

<hr></blockquote>

wonderful idea. why hasn't someone tried that??

dan

Ralph S.
05-27-2002, 11:20 PM
As many times as the WPBA has shot themselves in their feet, it's a wonder they aint in a wheelchair. I suspect maybe it wom't be long as it seems they are already on crutches from all the problems and in-fighting.
Ralph S.

Doctor_D
05-28-2002, 05:19 AM
Good morning:

Next, in keeping with the current tradition of isolationism and protectionism, the WPBA will be changing the rules even further to protect existing turf. Reduce the field size to 48, thus closing the door to the players on the regional tours who would defeat most existing Touring Pros and/or reduce the amount of the payouts to the lower third of the field. Reducing the field back to 48 would eliminate most of the qualifiers currently being offered by the regional tours. Eliminating the payouts for the bottom third of the field would eliminate the financial feasibility of the regional tour players to compete.

This can happen!!!

Another question. The WPBA US Women's Open, why is it not an OPEN event for all who wish to compete?

Dr. D.

Gayle in MD
05-28-2002, 09:11 AM
Hi Barbara,
Everything I read about the WPBA, certainly continues to convince me that what is really needed in order to "Raise The Level of Women's Pool" is another, completely separate organization for women. I have been thinking about this for some time, that the WPBA doesn't have any patent on women's pro pool. Virtually anyone could launch another organization. I keep mentioning this, not only here on the CCB, but on other occasions when I am with others whom one would think might have some interest in doing just that, but I never get any feedback. Another completely separate organization could only help to promote the future of women in pool. Competition is exactly what the WPBA needs, IMHO. There is no question in my mind that the resources are here in our CCB community. With a grassroots effort, in time, it could be accomplished. Step number one??? Lets start a list of everything that needs to be changed RE: the present format, along with suggestions for how those things can be improved. It is obvious that the present circumstances within the WPBA will eventually cause its demise anyway. When I played in the CAT here in Md., thereby activating automatic membership in the WPBA, I never heard from that organization, (WPBA) not even an e-mail. What kind of organization is THAT??? Other than closing a few contracts every year, what do they do?
Gayle in Md.

Wally_in_Cincy
05-28-2002, 09:56 AM
Sounds like a shoddily run organization to me. If they can't even deliver the "door prize" trinkets and kerfluffel to the "Gold" members that's pathetic. Sure glad I never signed up.

This "turf protection" problem is starting to make me lose any respect I may have previously had for these "veteran" WPBA members that are behind it.

Around here there are a lot of "ladies only" APA teams. There are a handful of teams or individuals that try to call obscure or nitpicking rules on their opponents in order to win because they can't get it done on the table. This WPBA group IMHO is similar to the "rules queens" I have encountered. They can't get it done on the table anymore so they use the rules to stifle the competition.

If you can't run with the big dogs, stay under the porch.

Wally~~uses too many quotation marks and hopes the regional gals can get some breaks because instead of "Paski" wants to see Beretta, Lipsky, Stock, Clark, Paglia, Chorny, and all the others whose names I forgot.... /ccboard/images/icons/smile.gif

Doctor_D
05-28-2002, 10:29 AM
Good afternoon:

Copied from another post, this is exactly what the WPBA does not want to see:



The new Touring Pros are:

Melissa Herndon (Great tournament)

Sarah Ellerby

Megan Smith

Stacy Hurst (way to go baby...it's about time!!!)

-----------------------------------------------------------

The new Active Pros are:

Anita Kuczma
-----------------------------------------------------------

The new Pros are:

Kim Shaw -- 4 out of 4 ain't bad. (Kim needs 1 event for her Active Pro status).
-----------------------------------------------------------



Dr. D.

Nostroke
05-28-2002, 11:35 AM
I spoke to the highest member of the WPBA recently and she could not give a decent answer to my questions about sponsorship or any other subject i raised. She appeared to be in a distracted fog. She could not even give me a definitive answer as to whether an Electronic WPBA Newsletter (which i signed up for twice over six months ago) has ever been published! I was actually embarrassed for her but i dont think she was!

I visited her former poolroom once- It was filthy and The person behind the counter thought the owners name was "Kim". Apparently a good piece of chalk cant be had there either.

A friend of mine called this same person for qualifier information and did not get anything but short "i dont know answers" until totally pushed when she finally gave the name of an organization (though no phone number or any other helpful contact info) that was having a qualifier.

I dont think there is any doubt that we are not talking about a dynamo. I think DUD is more accurate!

Does anyone know how a DUD like this could attain such a position?

Ever since they fired Tipton and hired that "professional organization" (since fired) things have gone straight downhill.

I used to enjoy the WPBA events but now that 90% of them are held in second rate casinos in the boondocks, I stay home!

Good luck WPBA- You really need it!

05-28-2002, 03:30 PM
"This is why I bring pecans with me, too."

I need some help with this comment.

Barbara
05-28-2002, 04:35 PM
Gayle,

That would be a lot of work, basically a full-time thing.

I would have no idea who would want to do it except for the love of the sport since it is a basically thankless job.

Except if Carol were on the tour, she's constantly thanking Mic and me. /ccboard/images/icons/wink.gif!!

Barbara

Gayle in MD
05-28-2002, 07:07 PM
Hi again Barbara, what is needed is a charity based, profit making, corporation, IMHO. If an organization is going to succeed, there has to be some payoff for those who are putting their time into growing it. I see nothing wrong with a salary for those top level executives who are putting in their time, and making decisions, in order to grow it, but those in charge would have to truly have their love of pool at the helm, along with the ability to market properly, and a flare for public relations, it could be accomplished. There is way too much that goes on under the table, so to speak, in non profit making organizations, and when you have a few with power, corruption will surely follow, especially when there is no format in place for proper reporting of activities. People do not hustle and move and shake for long when there is no money in it for them, long payless hours lead to resentment, and apathy...But with proper reimbursement, and the presence of high intention, along with a charitable purpose, people can move mountains!, JMHO, but interesting to contemplate.
Gayle in Md

Tom_In_Cincy
05-28-2002, 07:23 PM
Gayle,,

Hate to break this to ya.. but the WPBA board members do make more than they ever did playing pool on a yearly basis.

05-28-2002, 08:13 PM
Apparently Barbara's nuts are quite something. ( Gee, that sounds a little dirty, doesn't it?) No, seriously, she roasts them herself or something, and they're supposed to be excellant. I couldn't tell you personally, because I've never done anything good enough to be deserving of the nuts. Lorri
( With tongue firmly in cheek!)

05-28-2002, 08:15 PM
Barbara, this just sucks so much!! Is there anything we can do? You have my EMail address, if you don't want to discuss this publicly, I understand. I promise to throw all my effort behind whatever you come up with. Lorri

Barbara
05-28-2002, 08:21 PM
Gayle,

I'm all for compensating people who help to make an organization grow. Jan and Kelly aren't helping the WPBA grow. They should be ashamed taking any money out of the coffers when they're responsible for not replenishing the supply at a growing rate.

When I helped take over NEWT, one of my friends asked how much I would make at it. I told her I probably wouldn't break even and ended up reducing my work hours by 20% by taking Mondays off without pay. Heck, I hate Mondays anyway. So she was real surprised and asked why I was doing it anyway. I told her for the love of the sport! (and I hate Mondays!) LOL!

I would love to help such anorganization, but I'm not the leader type. I'm just the "helper" type.

Barbara

Barbara
05-28-2002, 08:27 PM
Lorri,

If the WPBA wants me to collect their dues, they can kiss my a$$!!

Thinking about all the legal ramifications about this, they're smoking something I gave up a decade ago.

Not to worry, the Regional Tours are the majority of the WPBA in membership. The WPBA is the minority here.

Barbara

05-28-2002, 08:39 PM
Barbara,
Regardless of ANY ramifications, I fully support your stance in this matter. You are right to be pissed off. The WPBA's organization and execution of daily maintenance tasks is APPALLING. One wonders just what the hell Jan and Kelly are doing for the money they're paying themselves. You might think that when a player earning her semi-pro status might actually send in her $100 yearly check to the WPBA, that the organization might recognize her points and send her membership package with some sort of promptness, but just NO! It's been months, no EMail, no Snail Mail, no F U, nothing. I guess the WPBA doesn't need my money. Must be nice to be independantly wealthy.

05-28-2002, 09:46 PM
I guess the WPBA doesn't need my money. (Quote from post above.)


New:
I wonder if maybe the players will soon start realizing they don't need the WBPA. Hope I'm not out of line here.

05-28-2002, 09:56 PM
Not at all Eddie. Actually, some of them have already realized it, but until they act, the WPBA is the only game in town. I believe that WILL change though, and change is only one winning lottery ticket away, right Ken? LOL Seriously though, the WPBA is way out of line patting themselves on the back. They've F@#$"ed (F@#$) up every opportunity they've had to grow their organization, and there is vast room for improvement. Someone WILL take advantage of it, it's just a question of when.

05-28-2002, 10:05 PM
Hi Lorri.
I was just going by what I have read on this board. I just restarted playing pool less then 2 months ago. And I'm disappointed that pool hasn't progressed much in the 20 years I've been away. And it was another 10 years before that. I heard a mention of dues. If the dues are all due on a certain date, maybe some sort of dues boycott would get their attention. It seems the only chance to get them to make improvements is to hit them where it hurts.

05-28-2002, 10:10 PM
Welcome back to the fold, Brother Eddie! LOL I too am sorry to see the state of Pro pool today. I believe it CAN be changed. I believe it CAN be exciting, and I believe that it CAN have broad based appeal, but it must be torn down and rebuilt. The current administrations in the WPBA and BCA will not be the leaders in this effort. They lack vision, but more importantly, they lack balls. There will be a better day. Have faith and trust, and be ready to support the phoenix when she rises from the ashes.

Gayle in MD
05-29-2002, 05:07 AM
Thanks Tom, I thought I had read on here that they were NPM, that news makes me wonder even more about the shoddy way they are handling things! Are there enough questions being asked by the membership? What happens at these meetings? Why aren't these leaders being held accountable for their non-action? Geese, they don't even maintain their website.
Gayle in Md

05-29-2002, 01:45 PM
Barbara,

I agree with you about the dues collection. Let them do it themselves. Since they have not sent me a dues notice yet this year, I'm guessing that might be a task too big for them to handle.

BTW do you know of any members who DO get a monthly WPBA newsletter?

What exactly is the advantage of having a "State Championship" on your Regional Tour? Does it allow you an extra qualifier spot? Are more players likely to participate? Is there more exposure for the host room? Just wondering. /ccboard/images/icons/smile.gif

Karla

Barbara
05-29-2002, 05:30 PM
Karla,

I get a monthly newsletter which is odd since I signed up for the electronic one.

Why is it that all Regional Tour members have to be members of the WPBA?? What are the ramifications of one member refusing to pay this membership but still wanting to play in the tour's tournaments? What does the WPBA do for us anyway except *allow* us to buy a $500 entry from them and we host the tournament?

But having an SC does draw a larger than normal tournament since it's open to the TPs and they want a shot at it. My question is, why does the WPBA charge the room owner $500 to host one? If it takes $100 to become a WPBA Patron Sponsor and in doing so allows you to hold qualifiers and Regional Tour tournaments, then that's all the RO should pay! If they want to line the WPBA's pockets with more $$, then that should be a decision on their part, not the WPBA's.

I just emailed all the heads of the the tours and brought their attention to Item #9 and the Patron Sponsor costs for holding an SC.

If we stand united, we may be able to make some changes. After all, we're the majority, not them. /ccboard/images/icons/wink.gif!!

Barbara~~~quoting someone else on the "majority statement" who shouldn't be id'd...

05-29-2002, 06:04 PM
I believe I read there are only 7 tournaments on the WPBA tour. It seems obvious that no tournament needs anything to do with the WPBA. They are quite successful without the WPBA. It actually seems like the WPBA desparately needs to line up more tournaments on their tour if they are to become a successful and lasting organinization. Not only should the WPBA not be charging well run, successful tournaments, "THE WPBA SHOULD BE PAYING OR GIVING THESE TOURNAMENTS SOMETHING OF VALUE TO PERMIT THEM TO BECOME PART OF THE TOUR". Maybe later after they get a decent number of tournaments on their tour they could then begin to think about maybe charging a fee.

05-29-2002, 06:24 PM
If I understand correctly some tournaments are for men only, some for women only and some for both. Maybe most of the tournaments could be open to both. Or would there be too many players that way? And there could be separate prize money for the men and women based on the entries. I believe that is how most of the ABC bowling tournaments were back when they started. I realize if done this way most of the women's prize money would most likely be smaller then the men's. I'm thinking if a big expense of the tournaments is organizing, advertising, and putting up the tables etc. Maybe for just a little more expense more tournaments could be open to both men &amp; women. And there could be some separate prize money just for the women. And the women could also compete against the men for the bigger money. Just trying to come up with some helpful, positive ideas. And I keep referring back to bowling because I remember when bowling was in about the same shape pool is in now. But it seems to have progressed many times the rate pool has progressed. Or should I say the rate pool has not progressed.

Barbara
05-29-2002, 06:27 PM
Eddie,

The WPBA gives us Regional Tours nothing of value. Nothing. No help with sponsorships or anything, least of all, money. They let the Regional Tour first-timers a free membership for the first year, then they have to pay for it afterwards. And most of them get nothing in return, not even a membership card!

Barbara~~~getting all riled up...

05-29-2002, 06:37 PM
Eddie,
There are events organized like that throughout the country, they are just not sanctioned by the WPBA. They are also only in your backyard once or twice a year, unlike the regionals, who have ten to twelve events within a few hours driving distance per year.

05-29-2002, 06:49 PM
I'm truely sorry I'm reading almost nothing but negative stuff about the WPBA. Tournaments are, or at least should be, a big part of the WPBA. And if a host pool room or tournament director goes through all the time, trouble, expense, and heart aches associated with putting on a successful tournament, I think the WPBA should contribute to those organizations. The WPBA should contribute as much as possible to make the tournaments successful. Because in the long run that would just be helpful to themselves. I just wish I was smart enough to figure out some way to help players, both amatuer and pro, pool, tournaments, tv coverage, and the prize money to all grow and progress in a positive direction. I thought since almost all other sports seem to have progressed and succeeded, pool should have too. I still hope it can. But I'm not smart enough to know how to get it accomplished. I didn't want to just write posts about how surprised I was about it's lack of success. And I'm trying to come up with some positive ideas. I don't mind be ridiculed for this. But I believe anyone can or should be able to learn from a genius or someone smarter then themself. But truely smart people can also learn from someone not nearly as smart as themselves. Or maybe just come up with a good idea while they explain why my ideas are so dumb.

05-29-2002, 06:56 PM
I share your sorrow Eddie, but I don't get the impression that you are dumb from anything you've written thus far. Perhaps you will surprise yourself during your brainstorming sessions, but you won't surprise me. I would like to see good things happen for pool and the WPBA too. More importantly, I'd like to share opinions with the CCB about "that great thing that happened at the last WPBA event" instead of " Oh God, look what they've gone and done now".

Barbara
05-29-2002, 06:59 PM
Eddie,

I think the WPBA needs a good changing of the guards and, like Lorri said, people to run this org that are not players with self interests as playing members.

Everyone used to look at the WPBA as *the* organization that has survived, but in reality, in the past couple years, it's been the people at the top who are bringing this organization down to the pits. NEWT has even had another State Champion tournament holder almost pull out because she can't stand dealing with who she has to deal with. This is really sad.

Barbara

05-29-2002, 07:13 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote: Barbara:</font><hr>
If we stand united, we may be able to make some changes. After all, we're the majority, not them. /ccboard/images/icons/wink.gif!!

Barbara~~~quoting someone else on the "majority statement" who shouldn't be id'd...
<hr></blockquote>

Well, just how much power do we have as the "majority"? Who is governing what the WPBA Board can do? As an Association, what do they legally owe to their membership? Who is doing the checks and balances to make sure that they are following the guidelines set by law and by their own by-laws?

And your last statement bothers me, although I understand that you can't ID them without their permission. It would be nice if some of the players who are actually on the ranking list would make their opinions known on these issues. It would be difficult for the board to "black-ball" a player in the top 30 of the ranking list, if they are inclined that way, for speaking out. I would think that it would be easier for them to make sure that those players who aren't already on the tour never get there. I've heard many things about the board, more of it negative than positive, but without knowing them to be FACTS I can't bring myself to repeat any of it. Nor can I form a truly educated opinion about what needs to be done next.

I really thought that going to a 64 player bracket was a huge step in the right direction. I just hope that the board doesn't feel too threatened by the players bumping them down in the brackets and start making decisions that start moving the tour backwards again. I personally don't think they should have sole decision making power, and am wondering if they really do, legally. Who are the legal minds in this forum who know these things?

Karla &lt;-- technically not a member - if I don't receive an invoice, I don't make the payment

05-29-2002, 07:35 PM
Karla,
Unfortunately, the WPBA is not 'legally' bound to do much for you at all. From what I've seen their bylaws protect the status quo, and the past abuses of power you've heard about have gone unpunished, if not unquestioned. The 'go along and get along' mode of operation is in full effect here, being as the absolute power the bylaws provide has been corrupted, absolutely! (Can you tell I'm holding a grudge?) Oh well, I can think of worse things to hold! :-)

05-29-2002, 07:43 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote: Lorri:</font><hr> Karla,
The 'go along and get along' mode of operation is in full effect here, being as the absolute power the bylaws provide has been corrupted, absolutely!
<hr></blockquote>

Lorri,
Thanks for your reply. /ccboard/images/icons/smile.gif

Are there not legal bindings that must be followed when an association drafts their by-laws? Or, if the by-laws were indeed written within the boundaries of the law (what state governs the WPBA?) is it not possible for the membership to request changes to the by-laws? And if a change is approved by the majority of the membership, can the Board still refuse to honor the request?

How does someone go about getting a copy of the by-laws?

Karla

jjinfla
05-30-2002, 06:09 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote: Karla_in_IA:</font><hr> &lt;blockquote&gt;&lt;font class="small"&gt;Quote: Lorri:&lt;/font&gt;&lt;hr&gt; Karla,

&lt;hr&gt;&lt;/blockquote&gt;

is it not possible for the membership to request changes to the by-laws? And if a change is approved by the majority of the membership, can the Board still refuse to honor the request?

How does someone go about getting a copy of the by-laws?

Karla <hr></blockquote>

Any member of any organization can request a copy of their by-laws from the organization's secretary. The by-laws should contain an article stipulating how the by-laws can be ammended. It should also have an article on how a member of the BOD can be removed. But ammending the by-laws probably is not even necessary. Perhaps documenting where the BOD has been lax is a first start. That they have failed to secure venues to play in. That they have failed to secure sponsors. That they have failed to keep the membership properly notified of events. That they have failed to properly send out membership dues notices. etc. And a poll of the membership (you do have a roster don't you?) to see if the membership really cares how the WPBA is being run. You may find that the general membership is willing to accept things the way they are. And the greatest hammer the membership has is a general boycot of a WPBA event to force the resignation of the present BOD. But I seriously doubt that would ever happen. Jake

05-30-2002, 12:29 PM
It's indeed sad to read all these comments on this thread - many by wpba regional members who (unlike myself) are so directly affected. The truth is that it's easy to complain here but takes guts to stand up and do something about it, and I applaud those take that risk to do so.

Back in March just after the Diana D board termination incident there was alot of talk here of discontent among players (including some wpba members) over what happened and how it was handled) and what then might hopefully take place at player meetings during the Valley Forge event - at least a full disclosure and explanation from the board to the membership for why they took the actions they did. Well, from what I heard and saw (and I was there) absolutely nothing happened. There was no apparent PUBLIC support given to Diana from other members - as if that entire ugly incident didn't even take place.

Just from the few comments I expressed here on the CCB (during that incident) I was outright ignored at Valley Forge by certain wpba board members whom I have known for a many years and had considered as friends. I was firmly spoken to and warned by others to "stay out of it". I have not lost any sleep over the fact that certain board members now despise me - simply because I was expecting some leadership, accountability and explanation for their actions.

Until I see some changes, we currently have no plans to host any more WPBA sanctioned events here (we hosted the NC Women's State Open here for 3 consecutive years along with numerous other wpba qualifiers) or even to attend any upcoming tourneys as spectators except for Valley Forge. The friendships I've developed with a number of other wpba players is not threatened as a result of these ongoing problems, but my concern for the future of the tour (and the future livlihood of all the players) remains a concern. - Chris in NC

05-30-2002, 12:41 PM
Chris,
I am sorry to hear that you've lost friendships you obviously valued because of the actions of a few selfish people. I'm also sorry, as a NEWT and CAT member to hear that I won't be attending any of your events any time soon. Although I would be directly affected, I think more room owners and players alike should let the WPBA know, by ANY means necessary, that we are not happy campers, and we're not going to go along! I don't understand the reasoning behind ANYTHING the organization is doing, and a lot of it seems to go against the grain of common sense and sound business practice. From what I'm seeing and hearing, their accounts receivable dept. ALONE has got to make Enron look like amateur hour. LOL I mean, how do you not bill your membership for their dues ??!!!!!

PoolFan
05-30-2002, 01:53 PM
Barbara,

I've been reading through this thread and have been enlightened. First, let me summarize what I've read to ensure it's accuracy.

1. The WPBA has a real administrative problem. They are leaning on the Regional Tours to collect their dues, rather than sending out invoices and collecting themselves. Once you are a member, the WPBA does not provide anything or very little for the member.

2. As a Regional Tour linked to the WPBA, the only advantage you have is promoting events that are qualifiers for WPBA events and the prestige of being recognized by the WPBA.

Now, my two cents. I believe that for a sport to grow a centralized Pro organization is imperative. The problem with that is sometimes the organization is useless. Take the PBTA for example. The organization faultered and now the status of Men's Pro events are pitiful. There was a time where I was proud of the WPBA, because they were following the beat of a different drum and seemed to have good direction. I'm really disappointed in their approach over the past couple of years, now they seem to be following that old drum beat which leads you to nowhere. Self interest over the greater good can distroy great ideas.

Regional Tours are the grass roots of the Pro Tour. If the WPBA is to short sighted to see that, then you are absolutely right in the feelings that you have been expressing. If this organization is not providing anything of value to you, drop them. How will that affect your NEWT events? You can still promote events and players will still play, won't they? The WPBA should at the very least, not put added responsibilities on you for their organization. Or if they do add responsibilities on you, you should be reimbursed for your troubles.

I truly hope that these issues can be resolved between the WPBA, the BOD, the regional tours, the memberships and venues. The way this sport grows is for all these pieces to work together very well. No one piece is more important then the other in the long run. If everyone takes their modest piece of action then eventually everyone makes out.

If the WPBA's ego is to big to recognize that they are being selfish. Drop them. It's unfortunate to say that, but hopefully they'll start seeing things in the sense of the BIG PICTURE. I have a daughter that is 2 1/2 years old, her world is "me, me, me". But it's understandable that she can not understand the concept of selfishness. But in this instance, we're talking about grown up who can understand the concept, maybe.

I wish you the best of luck and I hope for everyone's sake, issues can be resolve so that a good thing can keep on going.

05-30-2002, 02:59 PM
Lorri, I'm glad to say the friendships I lost were certainly not the ones that I valued. Those valued friends know that I would never do anything to hurt them, and knew that I was acting out of genuine concern for their future career and well being in saying what I did. - Chris in NC