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View Full Version : Triangle vs. Elkmaster



jingle
01-26-2005, 07:30 AM
This may be like comparing apples & oranges, but looking for feedback. I've used Triangles and like them, but haven't tried Elkmasters. I'm wondering how Elkmasters compare to Triangles regarding 1) spin action 2) forgiveness if not hit exactly right 3) maintenance.

Any thoughts are appreciated.

Wally_in_Cincy
01-26-2005, 07:50 AM
I have tried both. I use Elk Master.

<blockquote><font class="small">Quote jingle:</font><hr>1) spin action<hr /></blockquote>

I'm not a good enough player to comment on that.

<blockquote><font class="small">Quote jingle:</font><hr> forgiveness if not hit exactly right <hr /></blockquote>

I think the Elk is more forgiving. JMO

<blockquote><font class="small">Quote jingle:</font><hr> 3) maintenance.
<hr /></blockquote>

If you are a scuffer, the Elk Master requires less scuffing. I have not had any mushrooming problem with Elks. When I used lepros I had to scuff them constantly.

HTH

Troy
01-26-2005, 08:01 AM
Triangle tips are rated in the Med-Hard range while Elk Master tips are soft.
As far as your three comparison questions, I think it would be personal choice.
Elk Master will probably wear out quicker since they're so soft.

Troy
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote jingle:</font><hr> This may be like comparing apples &amp; oranges, but looking for feedback. I've used Triangles and like them, but haven't tried Elkmasters. I'm wondering how Elkmasters compare to Triangles regarding 1) spin action 2) forgiveness if not hit exactly right 3) maintenance.

Any thoughts are appreciated. <hr /></blockquote>

Pizza Bob
01-26-2005, 08:02 AM
Boy, you're not kidding...apples and oranges LOL. You are at opposite ends of the spectrum. Triangles are relatively hard and used by many cuemakers. They are a low cost alternative to a layered tip. Minimal mushrooming. Spin action is fine, as long as you have the stroke. Elkmasters are very soft and prone to constant mushrooming. They are favored by snooker players. For pool, I'd stay with the Triangles. JMHO.

Adios,

Pizza Bob

BLACKHEART
01-26-2005, 08:18 AM
Elkmaster is a very under rated tip. It has been very popular with snooker players forever. It is one of the softest tips you can pick. It holds chalk well &amp; because it is so soft,it grips the ball better &amp; with less miscues than the hard tips. The main difference is that the hard tips hold their shape better &amp; longer, without mushrooming. If the edge of the Elkmaster is properly burnished &amp; sealed(in a lathe), they hold up great. Try 'em you'll like 'em. What have you got to lose?...JER
P.S. in my area, about 1/3 of all of the tips I install are Elkmaster

stickman
01-26-2005, 09:32 AM
I put the triangles on house cues I repair, because of the low maintenance. They hold their shape better and last longer. The bangers are ruff on the elks. /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif My preference would be the triangle. I get plenty of spin, don't miscue a lot, and like the low maintenance. I have plenty of shooters that like the elk master. They seem to hold chalk better, have a good grip, spin the ball well, but can have high maintenance. If you are a hard hitter, you will have high maintenance. If you are a soft hitting, finesse player, you may like the elk masters. JMO

Paul_Mon
01-26-2005, 11:26 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote BLACKHEART:</font><hr> If the edge of the Elkmaster is properly burnished &amp; sealed(in a lathe), they hold up great. <hr /></blockquote>

So how do you properly burnish Jer? I start with saliva and leather then finish with waxed paper and leather. What do you mean by seal?

Thanks.......Paul

stickman
01-26-2005, 11:51 AM
I'm curious also. I use ammonia on a q-tip swab, instead of saliva, and burnish with leather on my lathe. I finish with a thin layer of shaft sealer. I tape the ferrule so not to get any on it. They still mushroom easily with repetive power breaks, or just heavy hits in general.

BLACKHEART
01-26-2005, 01:48 PM
/ccboard/images/graemlins/smile.gifHi Paul,well here goes one more of my secrets. After glueing with super glue gel &amp; trimming the edge, sand lightly with 400 then 600 sandpaper. Next I put some ammonia on a paper towel,(I add a little lemon oil to mine, so it doesn't smell so bad. SHAKE TO MIX). Wipe the edge with the ammonia &amp; burnish with a piece of leather. Then wipe a second &amp; third time followed by burnishing. Now, while the shaft is spinning in the lathe, coat the edge with SUPER GLUE GEL,right from the tube. Make a quick wipe with a clean paper towel. Make sure you don't take off ALL of the wet glue &amp; leave a smooth coating. It'll dry in a few seconds, THEN, shape the end. Finish up the end with 400 sandpaper &amp; LIGHTLY burnish the end. Break with 'em or shoot with 'em, the edge will hold up, as well as a hard tip,yet give you the grip &amp; hit of a soft tip. I use this for layered tips as well,except for Talisman, which are crap anyhow. FOR A LAYERED TIP YOU CAN NOT BEAT A TIGER,if you're a repairman. Put 'em on, burnish,seal collect your money &amp; never worry about them coming back...JER
P.S. I can't wait til this subject comes up &amp; I see my little tip in print as someone elses idea. I GET NO RESPECT. HaHaHa

Rod
01-26-2005, 02:39 PM
Triangles are a firm tip, while Elkmaster is a softer tip. Elkmaster tips and Blue Diamond play well when broken in. I think for many, me inclded, it takes break in time and I'd rather start out with a tip I'm happy with right out of the box.

That being said, many are happy with there soft feel out of the box. Spin comes from a good stroke, not the tip. You should find Elkmaster to be a more forgiving tip though. When broke in I don't think they require any more maintence and even less in many cases than other tips.

Rod

SpiderMan
01-26-2005, 02:57 PM
You are correct, it is apples and oranges. But there are advantages to both.

I'd say that, because it starts out softer, the Elk Master is a little more forgiving of poor stroking technique (less miscues). But it will also "change" more as it is broken in. Once it is compressed/worn fairly thin, it can feel much harder. On the minus side, if you start out thick with an Elk Master and shoot hard a lot, it seems to be more prone to becoming "spongy" than many other tips. When that happens, a tip will never break in, and it must be replaced. Some of us "case-harden" the outside of Elk Masters with various finishing products to help hold them together through break-in. I shot with them for years, and settled on a lacquer finish (soaked into the sidewalls) as a technique to ensure their survival.

I believe the Triangle is the best inexpensive tip on the market. It is medium hard, but if you start out thick, even an Elk Master user will adjust easily by the time it wears/compresses. One thing I like about Triangles, and an advantage over many other hard tips (including layered varieties), is that the leather seems to have fairly coarse fibers. When you chalk a Triangle, the crown of the tip seems to grab lots of the chalk and hold it well.

SpiderMan

BLACKHEART
01-26-2005, 04:25 PM
Spiderman, there is no breakin period with my method. NONE. Try it, before you post again. You'll be impressed...JER

SpiderMan
01-26-2005, 04:52 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote BLACKHEART:</font><hr> Spiderman, there is no breakin period with my method. NONE. Try it, before you post again. You'll be impressed...JER <hr /></blockquote>

JER,

I agree, just couldn't swear to it earlier because of lack of personal play time (see below).

Super glue is the current method used by Sid and I on all of our tips. I personally stopped using Elk Masters a couple of years ago (before switching to SG), though, so I don't have first-hand experience with the combo other than a very few tips I've sent out the door with other players.

Based on what I've seen with other tips, I'd expect to wholeheartedly agree with you on the effect, though. The SG seems to form sort of a reinforcing band around the tip.

What effect does the ammonia have on your procedure, and how did you come to try it?

SpiderMan

stickman
01-26-2005, 04:58 PM
Jer, thanks for the tip. It sounds very close to my way. /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif I have tried the glue in the past, but started using the sealer, for no particular reason other than it's easier to use. I use the ammonia on one end of the q-tip, and sealer on the other end. The glue is probably a little thicker than the sealer.

stickman
01-26-2005, 05:06 PM
Marty, Some of the commercial formulas for burnishing are strong in ammonia. I believe I first heard of it from Popcorn. It works well, and it's cheap.

Paul_Mon
01-26-2005, 05:17 PM
So that's how you get the edge of the tip to shine like that. Thanks Jer. I appreciate your honesty.

Paul

SpiderMan
01-27-2005, 09:54 AM
So the ammonia is just for the burnishing? I guess I misinterpreted JER's post. I thought it was being used as some sort of "pre-treatment" to help the SG produce a case-hardening effect. I've been using the SG for a long time, but was puzzled regarding what effect ammonia was providing in the operation. I burnish with slobber and a $100 bill /ccboard/images/graemlins/wink.gif

SpiderMan

Deeman2
01-27-2005, 11:29 AM
Great input from everyone. I still won't change my WB.



<blockquote><font class="small">Quote SpiderMan:</font><hr> So the ammonia is just for the burnishing? I guess I misinterpreted JER's post. I thought it was being used as some sort of "pre-treatment" to help the SG produce a case-hardening effect. I've been using the SG for a long time, but was puzzled regarding what effect ammonia was providing in the operation. I burnish with slobber <font color="blue"> They can get your DNA that way. I prefer to let a blond spit on mine! /ccboard/images/graemlins/smirk.gif </font color> and a $100 bill /ccboard/images/graemlins/wink.gif <font color="blue"> What's a $100 dollar bill, they have these in Texas? /ccboard/images/graemlins/crazy.gif

Deeman
missed you yesterday, Spiderman. We had a blast and no waiting!!!! </font color>

SpiderMan <hr /></blockquote>

Fred Agnir
01-27-2005, 01:48 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote BLACKHEART:</font><hr> /ccboard/images/graemlins/smile.gifHi Paul,well here goes one more of my secrets. After glueing with super glue gel &amp; trimming the edge, sand lightly with 400 then 600 sandpaper. Next I put some ammonia on a paper towel,(I add a little lemon oil to mine, so it doesn't smell so bad. SHAKE TO MIX). Wipe the edge with the ammonia &amp; burnish with a piece of leather. Then wipe a second &amp; third time followed by burnishing. Now, while the shaft is spinning in the lathe, coat the edge with SUPER GLUE GEL,right from the tube. Make a quick wipe with a clean paper towel. Make sure you don't take off ALL of the wet glue &amp; leave a smooth coating. It'll dry in a few seconds, THEN, shape the end. Finish up the end with 400 sandpaper &amp; LIGHTLY burnish the end. Break with 'em or shoot with 'em, the edge will hold up, as well as a hard tip,yet give you the grip &amp; hit of a soft tip. I use this for layered tips as well,except for Talisman, which are crap anyhow. FOR A LAYERED TIP YOU CAN NOT BEAT A TIGER,if you're a repairman. Put 'em on, burnish,seal collect your money &amp; never worry about them coming back...JER
P.S. I can't wait til this subject comes up &amp; I see my little tip in print as someone elses idea. I GET NO RESPECT. HaHaHa <hr /></blockquote>What's the tip in case I want to steal the idea?

I've been doing super glue on Elk Masters for about 10 years.

People have been saying to burnish with ammonia for... who knows?

Lemon scent... now that's a new one for me.

Fred

tateuts
01-27-2005, 02:32 PM
I use an Elkmaster on my Predator shaft. I think this is the ideal combination.

An Elkmaster is a soft tip initially. The trick with an Elkmaster is that they have to be hardened up and shaped. This takes some work - it takes me about 30 minutes. What I do is put the tip on, shave down the sides, and take a file and tap it down. Shape it, play with it for awhile, shape the sides, tap it down with a file. I actually whack the tip with the file pretty hard, beating it down.

When I'm done, the tip is now medium and feels pretty good - but still grabs like a mother. I rarely miscue with an Elkmaster and I can put extreme spin on the cueball when necessary while still stroking relatively softly.

Once it's worked down, the tip will hold its shape for months. Ultimately, replacement comes when it gets too hard and I feel like I'm losing the fine spin control.

Elkmaster is the only tip Efren Reyes wil play with - that should tell you something.

Chris

BLACKHEART
01-27-2005, 08:40 PM
/ccboard/images/graemlins/smile.gifThere's nothin' in my post that a lot of people don't already know. BUT, I'm always ready to help someone else, without trying to impress others with what I know. The point was that on many occasions, I've volunteered tips on the way I do things DIFFERENTLY, than anyone else. If it helps someone else,so be it. BUT inveriably, in a few weeks there will be a similar question &amp; some other poster will volunteer MY advise &amp; claim it as their own idea. WHATEVER... I'm only trying to help .....Screw it...post what you want.

jingle
01-28-2005, 06:21 AM
Thanks for the great input everyone!

Fred Agnir
01-28-2005, 07:20 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote BLACKHEART:</font><hr> BUT inveriably, in a few weeks there will be a similar question &amp; some other poster will volunteer MY advise &amp; claim it as their own idea. WHATEVER... I'm only trying to help .....Screw it...post what you want. <hr /></blockquote>Okay, fair enough. So what was the tip that you were specifically pointing to? As I said, I want to steal the idea and claim it as my own.

Fred

DickLeonard
02-15-2005, 09:37 AM
Blackheart when I was running rooms I would use the Brunswick Blue Diamonds. They only played good for a month or so. I would always be scouting the housecues for the next tip, Ala Willie Hoppe.

Then came the Champions,Crowns a longer lasting tip and I never went back to the Blue Diamonds.

I have always mainained that the 12 dollar cue with the Black Diamond Tip was the best hitting cue I ever played with. Its memory still haunts me to this day.####