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bsmutz
01-27-2005, 02:11 PM
Let's say I have this leave at the end of a game of 9-ball and want to come across and down table with the cue ball to get shape on the 9. START(%HO6J1%ID4M9%PT6Q5%UQ2D4%VP9I6%WQ0K3%XT2P7%[G8X5%\P9C3)END wei (http://endeavor.med.nyu.edu/~wei/pool/)
I have seen many people make this shot and know the answer must be simple, but I'm darned if I can do it. If the cue ball was farther down table or the 8 closer to the rail leaving a thinner cut, I can use left hand english and have the cue ball come off the rail to the left like I want it to. But with the shot diagrammed, it seems like no matter how I shoot it, the cue ball goes up table. In my mind, it seems like bottom left should do what I want. Thanks for your help.

Popcorn
01-27-2005, 02:29 PM
From the way you have the balls it looks pretty easy to get on the 9. You also have to remember you don't need perfect position. Even if the cue ball just goes straight across the 9 can be made with no problem. One trick is to shoot the shot with less speed and more spin.

Nostalgia
01-27-2005, 02:30 PM
Actually, I believe top-left would be better. Draw would make the cueball come up table (away from the 9) before contacting the rail. Follow should shorten up the angle and make it easier to get down for the 9.

-Joe

Wally_in_Cincy
01-27-2005, 02:33 PM
Couldn't you send the cb to "A" with a center-ball hit for a shot on the 9 ?

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DavidMorris
01-27-2005, 02:49 PM
To shoot the shot exactly as diagrammed, top-left (or maybe just left, but adding some top should make it easier). Bottom-left will draw the CB off the 8 back toward the head of the table, as someone else said, and just as you're experiencing. You want forward roll to keep the CB moving forward and running english (left-spin) to open up the angle off the long rail.

Sid_Vicious
01-27-2005, 02:58 PM
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I'd hit with no bottom at all, nor would I go top unless I wanted to shorten up and use the opposing long rail as a brake, simple inside and with a 1-speed stroke(cloth dependant) is how'd I'd approach this shot. Only danger is that there's a chance of scratching if you hit it just the wrong speed, but that's doubtful IMO...sid

tateuts
01-27-2005, 03:21 PM
The shot is center left. Make sure you are far out enough on the cueball, at least a full tip out, and on the right aiming line. Then, miraculously enough, hit it easy. Watch the cueball grab the rail and turn left. If it doesn't, one of four things is wrong:

1) you have stroked too hard so the english doesn't take

2) you have punched the ball. This causes the cueball to go on a different line and the english won't take

3) The rubber is no good on your cushions. Boingy rails won't rebound correctly.

4) you're not getting inside english on the ball. Remember to stroke right through the cueball.

Let us know how you do.

Chris

bsmutz
01-27-2005, 03:51 PM
Thanks for the suggestions. I will go home tonight, try it out, and let you know how it went tomorrow. Wally, when I try this shot in a game situation, that is usually what happens. I am okay with this angle, but was using this more as an example for a more extreme situation where getting back down table is a necessity. I play a lot of snooker and getting down for the 7 ball below the cluster is desirable.

bsmutz
01-28-2005, 12:18 PM
Guess I'm going to have to work on this some more. It seems like if the cut is thin enough, no problem. But the thicker I have to hit the ball, (and with lots of inside english you have to hit the ball thicker to make it) the side spin either gets knocked off or the cue ball comes back straight across. After playing with it for a half hour or so, you have to hit it fairly hard or the cue ball dies off the rail and only comes half way across. I've tried sending the cue ball around the table and back down, but I usually end up with pretty much the same sort of angle on the 9 as I would have if I just played the natural angle and came across table. I guess I need to pay more attention to where the balls actually are when I see other players shooting this shot. Thanks again for the help.

Nostalgia
01-28-2005, 01:09 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote bsmutz:</font><hr>(and with lots of inside english you have to hit the ball thicker to make it)<hr /></blockquote>

Not wholly true. Inside english will throw the object ball towards the rail. This means you will have to hit the OB thinner to make it in the corner pocket.

However, you may need to aim thicker to compensate for squirt. Since you're hitting the CB on the left side, the cue stick can squirt the OB off to the right, causing you to hit the OB too thinly.

-Joe

bsmutz
01-28-2005, 04:34 PM
Thanks for the correction. The first time I tried it, the OB hit the end rail a few inches to the left of the pocket, so I had to compensate my aim for fuller hit. I meant to have Scott help me with this during my lesson but forgot. Other players make it look so easy that I'm pretty sure it's something that I just need to practice to get the hang of.

Nostalgia
01-28-2005, 09:23 PM
I'm with you in that boat. One of the reasons I'm so familiar with the effects of inside english is the trouble I have pocketing balls when using it. I've only just started to practice these hits.

-Joe

Rod
01-28-2005, 09:56 PM
Keep in mind table conditions play a role on this type of shot. If the cloth is new the c/b slides off the rail so english has way less effect. On old cloth you can get close to straight in on the 9, you'll learn that as time goes along.

The shot is played with top left, top gives you a slight advantage over left only. It is common for people to miss the pocket left because they have not learned to aim with a large amounts of side english. Just aim at the ball a little heavier than you would with no english. Your so close to the ball squirt will be minimum. It's learning how to aim with so much cue offset, any squirt or swerve is very small so don't get to caught up in that aspect.

I'm using your diagram,START(
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)END as you can see the tangent line by my arrows points well up the rail using center english. Using top left bends this angle a bit to point A. It's that bit of top that helps with the slight curve of the c/b. Then the top and left work together to give you an easier shot on the nine. Without top, the cue ball never gets close to your arrows. Although not perfect that is what really happens. Thought you might like a better understanding. You only shoot hard enough to cross the table, if you hit the other side rail you've shot to hard.

Rod

tateuts
01-28-2005, 11:03 PM
I set up his shot on my table and actually hit the other side of the 9 ball with just smooth left. I don't think he's putting any real spin on the cueball.

Chris

Chris Cass
01-30-2005, 09:04 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote bsmutz:</font><hr> Let's say I have this leave at the end of a game of 9-ball and want to come across and down table with the cue ball to get shape on the 9. START(%HO6J1%ID4M9%PT6Q5%UQ2D4%VP9I6%WQ0K3%XT2P7%[G8X5%\P9C3)END wei (http://endeavor.med.nyu.edu/~wei/pool/)
I have seen many people make this shot and know the answer must be simple, but I'm darned if I can do it. If the cue ball was farther down table or the 8 closer to the rail leaving a thinner cut, I can use left hand english and have the cue ball come off the rail to the left like I want it to. But with the shot diagrammed, it seems like no matter how I shoot it, the cue ball goes up table. In my mind, it seems like bottom left should do what I want. Thanks for your help. <hr /></blockquote>

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Regards,

C.C.~~speed

GeraldG
01-30-2005, 09:21 PM
I don't really see any reason to bank this ball. I'd just shoot it with a medium stroke and left spin. But...that's just me. I try NOT to bank unless I just have to.

BCgirl
01-31-2005, 12:22 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote bsmutz:</font><hr> Guess I'm going to have to work on this some more. It seems like if the cut is thin enough, no problem. But the thicker I have to hit the ball, (and with lots of inside english you have to hit the ball thicker to make it) the side spin either gets knocked off or the cue ball comes back straight across. After playing with it for a half hour or so, you have to hit it fairly hard or the cue ball dies off the rail and only comes half way across. I've tried sending the cue ball around the table and back down, but I usually end up with pretty much the same sort of angle on the 9 as I would have if I just played the natural angle and came across table. I guess I need to pay more attention to where the balls actually are when I see other players shooting this shot. Thanks again for the help. <hr /></blockquote>

It sounds like you're hitting the ball too hard.

I'd use top left rather than just left. With centre left, a soft hit, and fast cloth, no problem. With slower cloth, using centre-left, you need a harder hit, so the CB will follow the tangent line, and hit the rail faster, and you need much more english to change the angle off the rail. You also need to compensate more for deflection. This all makes the shot harder. From your description, I think this is what you may be doing (making the shot harder than need be).

The diagram here (copied from someone else's post), shows roughly what's happening. The angle's probably not as great as diagrammed here, but note the big angle change off the rail, compared to the later shot.

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With top left, and a soft hit, the angle at the rail is closer to what you want, so you don't need to modify the angle so much, which means you need less left english (in fact, you may get good position with follow alone). Because you used follow, the CB is carrying more speed to the rail, so you don't have to stroke so hard to get across the table. I think it makes the shot much easier.

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The best choice will depend on the speed of the cloth, and the rails.

Another thing to note from your comments. With a good clean stroke on a follow shot, you should easily be able to get that CB across the table without a hard hit, so you may want to focus on your cue follow-through when practising this shot.

BCgirl

wolfdancer
01-31-2005, 01:53 AM
Bill, it's the clean air up here, that's affecting the shot...
I'd go with the suggestion of just center left english, not too hard...why not pm Scott, and get his opinion
where do you play snooker? My snooker play, makes my 9-ball play look good by comparision. I use a 3x scope to sight the long shots, on a snooker table.

Chris Cass
01-31-2005, 02:30 AM
Hi GeraldG.,

I understand what your point is. Straight in shots better than banking. I play quite a bit of one pocket and the shots a given for me most of the time. It's also sometimes worth it not only to get better position but doing less with the cb. The way the shot is set up on the wei table. It seems that you have to apply quite a bit of left english. Which is fine but I'd rather try not to get too far off 1 tip from ctr cb. What ever works for your capabilties.

Regards,

C.C.