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View Full Version : And For My Second Week In The APA...



Barbara
01-27-2005, 08:18 PM
I got bumped to a 3 this week. Plus, I won my match tonight and played better than last week, even though it was on a bar box with slow cloth.

I left after my "3" teammie (Chrissy) had to play an 8. Hey! This guy was good!! He did run one rack. But during another rack, he broke, made nothing, and left Chrissy hooked on the 1-ball. She then picked up the cue ball and handed it to her opponent. I had to ask why did she do this. They told me that if they're going to foul, then why try? So my next coach with anyone in this situation will be to intentionally foul and tie up some balls. ESPECIALLY when you're shooting a run-out player!!

Like Voodoo said, sandbagging is for nits, but I still take the tactical plays of 9-ball as a necessary part of the game. If I can't push out or get at least a good kick at my object ball, I'm going to make my opponent suffer. Not being able to push out after the break just really sucks.

Barbara

wolfdancer
01-27-2005, 08:40 PM
Somehow, I had you pictured as at least a 6.
My "cute" safety backfired on me over the weekend
as I made the guy's last ball and hooked him on the
8. After a good kick, I had to play safe again, but
left a long bank, and ..
A "3" ???????? I thought if you knew the difference
between powdering your nose, and chalking up, you
would be at least a "4"

Barbara
01-27-2005, 08:58 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote wolfdancer:</font><hr>A "3" ???????? I thought if you knew the difference between powdering your nose, and chalking up, you
would be at least a "4" <hr /></blockquote>

I expect to be a 4 next week.

In fact, I talked about my initial rating this week to my captain and about jjinfla's remark about me sandbagging for a while and she looks on her paperwork and sees I'm rated as a 3 this week. What the hell do I care! I heard the highest rated female in this league is a 5. I've just got to start practicing again and re-learning how to shoot on small tables and bingo!! What the hell do I care about handicaps!! I play straight up. I hate handicapping and this is why I'm still thinking about continuing to playing in this league.

How does the BCA handle league play? Do they handicap and if so, how?

So I'll keep in touch on my rating, jjinfla.

Barbara

landshark77
01-27-2005, 09:02 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Barbara:</font><hr> She then picked up the cue ball and handed it to her opponent. I had to ask why did she do this. They told me that if they're going to foul, then why try? So my next coach with anyone in this situation will be to intentionally foul and tie up some balls. ESPECIALLY when you're shooting a run-out player!!

<hr /></blockquote>

Ewww, yeah...if you're gonna foul at least make it a good foul, regardless of the caliber of your opponent. Ain't nobody going to give me a shot, so why would I? LOL.

And a 3...please, although I do feel quite good about that (I'm a 4 (8-ball though) /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif)...yep I tend to compare my playing abilities to others via an APA rating, LMAO...honestly. I'm curious as to what your rating will be after ten weeks of play...that is when we will have a good understanding of how the APA gods view your pool skills. /ccboard/images/graemlins/laugh.gif

landshark77
01-27-2005, 09:09 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Barbara:</font><hr> I've just got to start practicing again and re-learning how to shoot on small tables and bingo!! <hr /></blockquote>

Ok lets talk table size for a second. I am the reverse of your situation. I can play on a little table w/o any problems. The big tables, well...they scare me. It takes a good many games before I have any confidence on the 9'ers at all. My theory has always been that I should play as much as possible on the 9'ers because down sizing would be alot easier...are you saying my theory is wrong?

Barbara
01-27-2005, 09:34 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote landshark77:</font><hr>

Ok lets talk table size for a second. I am the reverse of your situation. I can play on a little table w/o any problems. The big tables, well...they scare me. It takes a good many games before I have any confidence on the 9'ers at all. My theory has always been that I should play as much as possible on the 9'ers because down sizing would be alot easier...are you saying my theory is wrong?

<hr /></blockquote>

There are pros and cons to any table size. But I highly recommend to practice on the biggest table you can for some time to just get used to getting confident in making long shots.

It is a learning situation. Just know where your rail shots are. Cheat a pocket. Learn 14.1 and kill an overstroke if you have one. Back hand english may work or it may backfire. And if you play with two different cues, one for league and one for your classic tournaments, learn the difference! /ccboard/images/graemlins/blush.gif

Practice, practice, practice....

Hope this helps.

Barbara

Barbara
01-27-2005, 09:41 PM
Yeah right Shark, I can't wait, either. Really. The APA has absolutely no idea what the heck my skill is coming into this league.

You say you are a loser but yet, you win against competitors at Hagerstown... /ccboard/images/graemlins/smile.gif!!

I hold nothing against you. You now have to give Karen Corr -- NOTHING!! You still have to play even-up in JPNEWT!! Go for it!!!

Barbara

landshark77
01-27-2005, 10:20 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Barbara:</font><hr>
You say you are a loser but yet, you win against competitors at Hagerstown... /ccboard/images/graemlins/smile.gif!!

I hold nothing against you. You now have to give Karen Corr -- NOTHING!! You still have to play even-up in JPNEWT!! Go for it!!!

Barbara <hr /></blockquote>

eh, I got lucky...I played a newbie, like myself, so I was more confident than when I played Karen Armstrong, who's been playing a bit.

As far as playing Karen Corr head to head...I'm all for it (I share your views in regards to handicaps). I just wanna play good people...you know someone diffrent than my Friday night match ups, LOL. I should be able to make it to a few of your stops this summer...time will be on my side by then. /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif

Rod
01-27-2005, 11:50 PM
[ QUOTE ]
The big tables, well...they scare me. <hr /></blockquote>

A little ole two feet. LOL Didn't think you're a skard of nutin. /ccboard/images/graemlins/smirk.gif Hey play on them you'll be glad you did.

Rod

jjinfla
01-28-2005, 04:41 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Barbara:</font><hr> I got bumped to a 3 this week. Plus, I won my match tonight and played better than last week, even though it was on a bar box with slow cloth.

I left after my "3" teammie (Chrissy) had to play an 8. Hey! This guy was good!! He did run one rack. But during another rack, he broke, made nothing, and left Chrissy hooked on the 1-ball. She then picked up the cue ball and handed it to her opponent. I had to ask why did she do this. They told me that if they're going to foul, then why try? So my next coach with anyone in this situation will be to intentionally foul and tie up some balls. ESPECIALLY when you're shooting a run-out player!!

Like Voodoo said, sandbagging is for nits, but I still take the tactical plays of 9-ball as a necessary part of the game. If I can't push out or get at least a good kick at my object ball, I'm going to make my opponent suffer. Not being able to push out after the break just really sucks.

Barbara

<hr /></blockquote>

After about 4-5 weeks you should be pretty close to your true handicap.

You didn't mention how bad you defeated your opponents. How many team points did you get out of the 20 per match?

Oh, and 3's and most 4's have no idea of what you are talking about when you say "tying up balls". And technically when a player picks up the cue ball hands it to the opponent that should be marked as a defensive shot because there was no attempt to make a ball.

The no push out rule is the one thing I don't like. When I wrote to the APA they told me that the push out favors the better players so that is why they do not allow it. And recently I read where a pro, I think it was Mike Sigel but not sure, says the pros should do away with the push out.

Maybe next time out they will match you up with a 5. That will give you a better indication of your level.

Jake

GeraldG
01-28-2005, 05:36 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Barbara:</font><hr>
I left after my "3" teammie (Chrissy) had to play an 8. Hey! This guy was good!! He did run one rack. But during another rack, he broke, made nothing, and left Chrissy hooked on the 1-ball. She then picked up the cue ball and handed it to her opponent. I had to ask why did she do this. They told me that if they're going to foul, then why try? So my next coach with anyone in this situation will be to intentionally foul and tie up some balls. ESPECIALLY when you're shooting a run-out player!!

Barbara

<hr /></blockquote>


There are times (especially in 9-ball) when that might be the right move. I've seen this happen a lot. Some people have claimed it is not good sportsmanship, but I think it can be just another defensive play. If you have a situation where you are not likely to hit your object ball and the object ball is in a position where there's no good shot even with ball-in-hand, and you don't want to take a chance on moving other balls that are tying the object ball up...the intentional foul might be the right move. I wouldn't advocate doing just because you don't feel that you can hit your tied-up object ball, but if it's strategically the right shot, why not?

Sid_Vicious
01-28-2005, 06:18 AM
"I've just got to start practicing again and re-learning how to shoot on small tables and bingo!!"

SPetty's Cougar strengthened my box game fast! Thing is though, the bars don't have Simonas and the tables roll off most of the time, so those tables, in a somewhat hostile, beer guzzling environment will take some time getting used to. If that don't work, I'm sure you can get a slot for SPetty's next workout. "C'mon down!" sid

DickLeonard
01-28-2005, 06:25 AM
Sid that is the thing with Bar Tables you go to the mens room and your opponent lifts up an end and places a few coasters under the leg. Especially if your an out of towner.LOL####

Barbara
01-28-2005, 08:02 AM
Gerald,

I agree that not disturbing an already bad table could be the right move. But Chrissy handed over a run out to this guy.

Barbara

Barbara
01-28-2005, 08:06 AM
Yeah Jake,

I wish they had matched me up to that 8 last night. I may not have won, but I could've tortured him a bit.

We lost 69-31, I've just found out. And I keep forgetting to ask for the score of my match. I need to keep track of that.

Barbara

Rich R.
01-28-2005, 09:37 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Barbara:</font><hr> Gerald,

I agree that not disturbing an already bad table could be the right move. But Chrissy handed over a run out to this guy.

Barbara <hr /></blockquote>
I think the best service you can do, for your team, is to provide them with some much needed instruction on the strategy of 9-ball.

Considering the APA form of 9-ball is based solely on a points system and not on making the 9-ball, stopping the run out is even more important. By stopping the run out, she may have also given herself a chance to make, at least, another ball or two, in that rack. A low level player only needs a few balls per rack to be competitive with an SL-8.

Even if she didn't win the match, she may have pocketed enough balls to increase the number of team points.

Barbara
01-28-2005, 10:02 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Rich R.:</font><hr> I think the best service you can do, for your team, is to provide them with some much needed instruction on the strategy of 9-ball.

Considering the APA form of 9-ball is based solely on a points system and not on making the 9-ball, stopping the run out is even more important. By stopping the run out, she may have also given herself a chance to make, at least, another ball or two, in that rack. A low level player only needs a few balls per rack to be competitive with an SL-8.

Even if she didn't win the match, she may have pocketed enough balls to increase the number of team points. <hr /></blockquote>

Exactly Rich. She got 13 points overall in the match and could've gotten a few more, IMO.

I left them with two matches to go because I simply cannot stand to be in smoky bars any more. So they're blaming me for taking the good karma away when I left them last night. /ccboard/images/graemlins/blush.gif

I can teach them a bunch about 9-ball and they're looking to me for coaching and kicking situations. But I'm torn about staying with the team because of my sinus problems. I also have very bad night vision and I hate driving at night and these matches are all 10+ miles from my house in rural parts of NJ already overpopulated with deer.

However, the up side to all of this is that they are a fun bunch to hang with. /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif

Barbara

landshark77
01-28-2005, 11:13 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Barbara:</font><hr>
But I'm torn about staying with the team because of my sinus problems. I also have very bad night vision and I hate driving at night and these matches are all 10+ miles from my house in rural parts of NJ already overpopulated with deer.

However, the up side to all of this is that they are a fun bunch to hang with. /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif
<hr /></blockquote>

JMO, but if you can work it out you should stick it out thru this session, at least. It sucks when you think you have a team and then someone backs out in the middle of the session. They only have two more weeks to find a replacement for you, after that if you leave your team will be left hanging...I know from experience...when you're left hanging in the APA you are screwed.

Rich R.
01-28-2005, 11:45 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Barbara:</font><hr> I left them with two matches to go because I simply cannot stand to be in smoky bars any more. So they're blaming me for taking the good karma away when I left them last night. /ccboard/images/graemlins/blush.gif <hr /></blockquote>
When possible, I tend to leave my team early too. Although the smoke doesn't bother me too much, my alarm clock goes off at 4 am. /ccboard/images/graemlins/tongue.gif
Those late matches are a killer. /ccboard/images/graemlins/frown.gif

<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Barbara:</font><hr>I also have very bad night vision and I hate driving at night and these matches are all 10+ miles from my house in rural parts of NJ already overpopulated with deer. <hr /></blockquote>
Would it be possible to ride with one of your teamates?

Although the APA ain't perfect, it is fun and that is what it is all about. /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif

Barbara
01-28-2005, 11:56 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Rich R.:</font><hr>Would it be possible to ride with one of your teamates?
<hr /></blockquote>

Unfortunately, no. We all live pretty much away from one another.

I'll stick it out for this session, though. They got stuck by this guy just days before this session started which is why they were looking for another body. We're playing that guy's team next week and my team is just drooling to get me matched up to him. He's a 5, I think.

It is fun, though.

Barbara

Rich R.
01-28-2005, 12:01 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Barbara:</font><hr> <blockquote><font class="small">Quote Rich R.:</font><hr> They got stuck by this guy just days before this session started which is why they were looking for another body. We're playing that guy's team next week and my team is just drooling to get me matched up to him. He's a 5, I think. <hr /></blockquote>
If he is, in fact, a 5, in APA 9-ball, you should kick his butt easily. /ccboard/images/graemlins/blush.gif

As he most likely left the team, thinking he was joining a better team, I hope everyone on your team does well and you end up winning.
Revenge is sweet. /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif

GeraldG
01-28-2005, 01:06 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Barbara:</font><hr> Gerald,

I agree that not disturbing an already bad table could be the right move. But Chrissy handed over a run out to this guy.

Barbara <hr /></blockquote>

Oh. That ain't good. What was her plan, to make it up in volume?

Bob_Jewett
01-28-2005, 02:54 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Barbara:</font><hr> ... left Chrissy hooked on the 1-ball. She then picked up the cue ball and handed it to her opponent. ... <hr /></blockquote>
So far as I know, you are never permitted to pass a shot when it is your turn. If it is your turn, you must shoot, even if you just barely touch your tip to the cue ball. Maybe it makes no difference in your friend's situation, but there are positions in 14.1 where beginners don't know how to take a foul without leaving a shot.

Intentionally touching the cue ball (or any ball in play) is an unsportsmanlike conduct foul.

SPetty
01-28-2005, 02:57 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Bob_Jewett:</font><hr>So far as I know, you are never permitted to pass a shot when it is your turn. If it is your turn, you must shoot, even if you just barely touch your tip to the cue ball. Maybe it makes no difference in your friend's situation, but there are positions in 14.1 where beginners don't know how to take a foul without leaving a shot.

Intentionally touching the cue ball (or any ball in play) is an unsportsmanlike conduct foul.<hr /></blockquote>Hey Sid,

This is what I was trying to explain in way too many words awhile back. See how much more clear Bob makes things?

Wally_in_Cincy
01-28-2005, 03:11 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Bob_Jewett:</font><hr> Intentionally touching the cue ball (or any ball in play) is an unsportsmanlike conduct foul. <hr /></blockquote>

People do that all the time in APA. It's pretty much an accepted practice.

I would know better than to do that in a straight pool match.

Sid_Vicious
01-28-2005, 03:14 PM
I just read on here within the last few days where someone stated it was a tactical move to simply pick up the CB and hand it to the opponent at times. Are we sure the 14.1 is not different from 8 &amp; 9-ball? I see players do it in organized pool a lot of time locally, even BCA structured events. never have I seen any disagreement over it...sid

Barbara
01-28-2005, 06:39 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Bob_Jewett:</font><hr>
So far as I know, you are never permitted to pass a shot when it is your turn. If it is your turn, you must shoot, even if you just barely touch your tip to the cue ball. Maybe it makes no difference in your friend's situation, but there are positions in 14.1 where beginners don't know how to take a foul without leaving a shot.

Intentionally touching the cue ball (or any ball in play) is an unsportsmanlike conduct foul. <hr /></blockquote>

I agree with you Bob. My next little brainstorm with my teammates will adress this issue. I never want to see this happen again. I will teach them some tactics of 9-ball.

Barbara

GeraldG
01-28-2005, 09:20 PM
You might as well get out of APA then. It happens quite a bit. There is nothing that I've ever been made aware of or been able to find in the rule book that says you can't do it. It's just a ball-in-hand foul, just like not making cushion contact or not hitting the object ball. The first time someone did it to me, I wasn't really pleased and was pretty sure it wasn't exactly kosher, but I couldn't find anything to support my view of it. But, since it is allowed under the rules, it has become "accepted" practice in APA, I suppose. You'll definitely see it again.

nhp
01-29-2005, 04:34 AM
The only ways I could think of that I would intentionally foul would be:

A. tying up balls to make the runout tougher, like you said

B. if I am on 1 foul, and a cluster of balls is at one section of the table, I will blast those balls apart with the cueball, to give them a good spread. I'd rather watch my opponent run out then get locked up in the cluster and 3-fouled.

C. If the lowest numbered ball on the table is tied up with a bunch of balls near it and my opponent is on two fouls, I will try to knock a ball into the OB so that it is completely blocked, and even with ball in hand the guy can't make a legal hit on the ball. This is called 9-ball checkmate.

D. If I am locked up good, and the OB is tied up with another ball, but the rest of the balls are spread out well. I might take an intentional foul instead of kicking at the ball and risking breaking up the cluster leaving the table wide open for the out.

That's about all I can think of. I will never 'give up'. Even if I take an intentional foul, it's for a purpose.

Rich R.
01-29-2005, 07:45 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Sid_Vicious:</font><hr> I just read on here within the last few days where someone stated it was a tactical move to simply pick up the CB and hand it to the opponent at times. Are we sure the 14.1 is not different from 8 &amp; 9-ball? I see players do it in organized pool a lot of time locally, even BCA structured events. never have I seen any disagreement over it...sid <hr /></blockquote>
Sid, I'm not sure I understand your question properly, but, the way I see it, in league play, it is alright to pick up the cue ball and hand it to your opponent, because all fouls result in ball in hand.
In straight pool, all fouls do not give you ball in hand, therefore, the practice would not be acceptable.

Sid_Vicious
01-29-2005, 08:10 AM
Yes it was the BCA arena of 8-ball that this discussion came to be a topic with SPetty and I, 14.1 is a game I've seldom played but I can understand the difference in this foul reasoning. Thanks...sid

Barbara
01-29-2005, 09:12 AM
Gerald,

I'm going to stick it out for the session. But I am also going to help my teammates with some tactics of 9-ball. They are going to learn that there are options other than just handing over the cue ball to their opponent.

Barbara

GeraldG
01-29-2005, 09:16 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Barbara:</font><hr> Gerald,

I'm going to stick it out for the session. But I am also going to help my teammates with some tactics of 9-ball. They are going to learn that there are options other than just handing over the cue ball to their opponent.

Barbara <hr /></blockquote>

That's a good thing. It sounds like they really could use some help from someone that knows the game.