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BigRigTom
01-28-2005, 03:10 PM
I keep hearing about the "Diamond System" of kicking and banking and in several books I have read the author makes reference to this system. So far I have not been able to find a book that defines and explains it in detail. Any suggestions?

SecaucusFats
01-28-2005, 03:28 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote BigRigTom:</font><hr> I keep hearing about the "Diamond System" of kicking and banking and in several books I have read the author makes reference to this system. So far I have not been able to find a book that defines and explains it in detail. Any suggestions? <hr /></blockquote>

"Win At Pocket Billiards" Banks and kick shots simplified and explained. Desmond Allen Ph.D.
ISBN : 1-56625-163-X

BigRigTom
01-28-2005, 04:02 PM
Thanks for the quick response and I am sure that this is a GOOD book on banking and kicking. I read the reviews on Amazon plus looked thru the contents. It does not mention the "Diamond System" only the "System".
Why do you suppose it is so hard to nail this down?
It there a book on the "Diamond System" specifically?

landshark77
01-28-2005, 04:08 PM
Go to AZ Billiards and search in the main forum for Dead Aim's Kicking Academy. There are 8 parts...so 8 individual threads...more may pop up because of threads before and after the academy posts. Dead Aim did a wonderful job of explaining all of the diamond systems and included diagrams. It is worth your time.

BigRigTom
01-28-2005, 04:09 PM
Now I really feel stupid.
I went back to the Amazon.com site but then typed into my Google search box the 2 words "Diamond System" and got several GOOD leads including some web pages dedicated to it. Sorry for wasting your time but I swear I have tried this search before with nothing but frustrating NON results.
Regardless here is the link to the site I just stumbled onto...
The Diamond System (http://www3.sympatico.ca/eric.perreault/diamond_system_en.html#1) /ccboard/images/graemlins/blush.gif

SpiderMan
01-28-2005, 04:39 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote BigRigTom:</font><hr> It does not mention the "Diamond System" only the "System".
Why do you suppose it is so hard to nail this down?
It there a book on the "Diamond System" specifically? <hr /></blockquote>

Tom,

I suspect that part of the problem is that "Diamond System" is a very generic catch-all term used when referring to many different algorithms that use the rail markers (diamonds) for calculating multi-rail shots. I don't know of any single panacea "Diamond System" that covers all of the kicking/banking possibilities. Instead there seems to be a variety of different "systems" of non-universal applicability, ie different systems used for different portions of the table or different number of rails.

You might do a search on "Sid's System" for short-rail kicks - I once worked with that one and it seemed to produce satisfactory results. I don't have a link, only a copy somewhere of an instructional article from the pre-internet days. I'm sure it's online in several places now. Likewise the long-rail systems should be available online. I believe at least one of the Don Feeney tapes goes into a couple of different kicking systems in great detail.

SpiderMan

Bob_Jewett
01-28-2005, 05:05 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote BigRigTom:</font><hr> I keep hearing about the "Diamond System" of kicking and banking and in several books I have read the author makes reference to this system. So far I have not been able to find a book that defines and explains it in detail. Any suggestions? <hr /></blockquote>
This question is answered in the rec.sport.billiard FAQ ( http://www.sfbilliards.com/faq.html ) along with a lot of other questions. There are several references listed there.

There are many diamond systems. Many authors gloss over or don't even mention the problems with them. Byrne explains several systems well. Eddie Robin's first one-pocket book has some of the best comments on diamond systems, but the book is hard to find.

SecaucusFats
01-28-2005, 05:33 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote BigRigTom:</font><hr> Thanks for the quick response and I am sure that this is a GOOD book on banking and kicking. I read the reviews on Amazon plus looked thru the contents. It does not mention the "Diamond System" only the "System".
Why do you suppose it is so hard to nail this down?
It there a book on the "Diamond System" specifically? <hr /></blockquote>

"Diamond System" is a generic term. Any system which involves the use of calculations based on the cue ball origination point, and the diamonds on the rail, is in fact a "diamond" system. The most commonly used systems in pocket billiards are the "corner five" and the "plus two".

Here is a link that might be helpful:
http://www.jimloy.com/billiard/kick3.htm

recoveryjones
01-28-2005, 08:32 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Bob_Jewett:</font><hr> <blockquote><font class="small">Quote BigRigTom:</font><hr>

There are many diamond systems. Many authors gloss over or don't even mention the problems with them.

I have several pool books and instructional videos which touch on the Diamond System and other kicking Systems. The only instructor/author who goes(deeply) into the problems regarding such systems is Dr. Cue Tom Rossman in his three video set called "Foundation for Banking and Kicking." Dr. Cue goes into great detail regarding the problems and their solutions regarding various Kicking Systems. These videos are very informative and I highly reccommend them. RJ

Here's some helpful links on kicking:
http://www.jimloy.com/billiard/kick.htm

http://www.azbilliards.com/vbulletin/upload/showthread.php?t=9115 (this link will take you to kicking academy Part 1, search AZ billiards for some most excellent info on the Kicking academy parts 2-8 EXCELLENT)

http://www3.sympatico.ca/eric.perreault/diamond_system_en.html

http://www.tomrosspool.com/pdf/Kicking%20and%20Banking/Two-Rail%20Kicks.pdf

http://www.billiardsatlas.com/atlas.html

http://www.uk-pool.com/diamond.php

recoveryjones
01-28-2005, 08:43 PM
All the Systems mentioned in my previous posts are mearly (good) guidelines. Tables,cloth rails,balls, your stroke, humidity etc etc will influence how the balls kick.

Co-incidently I was instructing a friend how to kick at his home pool hall.A three rail kick to the corner at his pool hall was one full diamond different on the aiming diamond than the tables at my pool hall which have new cloth and rails.

I had earlier spent over 40 hours practising and learning kicks (my pool hall) and after a few adjustments(test shots) I was kicking just as well at his pool hall as I do at mine.Learning the systems posted at AZ called "Kicking Academy" is very much well worth it for any nine or eight ball player for sure.Highly reccomended, RJ

al654321
01-28-2005, 08:45 PM
I think Grady Mathews made a quality instuctional VCR tape on using the diamond system about 10+ years back. You can email him at Grady101@sc.rr.com or call him at 803-407-0047 if his web site info is current. I just looked on his site but didn't see the diamond system tape mentioned but he may still have some for sale.

recoveryjones
01-29-2005, 12:37 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote al654321:</font><hr> I think Grady Mathews made a quality instuctional VCR tape on using the diamond system about 10+ years back. You can email him at Grady101@sc.rr.com or call him at 803-407-0047 if his web site info is current. I just looked on his site but didn't see the diamond system tape mentioned but he may still have some for sale. <hr /></blockquote>

Grady has (had?) a video out called "banks and saftey play".
He has kicking systems on a few of his videos.He uses reference starting points on the rails and then advocates a parralel shift to kick to different locations. I've never seen him explain a numbered diamond system on any of his videos.His videos are excellent nonetheless.

I found the link for the "Kicking Academy" systems at AZ billiards.
http://www.azbilliards.com/vbulletin/upload/search.php?searchid=99050
Some excellent systems here, well worth learning. RJ