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View Full Version : 8 bal break, head on or second ball break?



christopheradams
01-29-2005, 11:47 PM
I tend to favor a head on break when I know I am getting good racks, but if I even suspect the head ball may be a little off, I go for the second ball break. I know I can ask for a rerack and sometimes do if its truly horrendous, but sometimes worrying about the rack can take you out of the game. I usually hit the second ball with medium speed with a below center hit. I get a good spread, good pos near the center. I've heard on 9 footers its better to hit the 3rd ball, anyone test this out? I mostly play 8ball on bar tables and 9 ball on the 9 footers and find the second ball break works great on the bar tables. What is everyones take on the head on break versus the second ball break? Which Controls cue ball better? Which gives better spread?

JohnnyP
01-30-2005, 01:54 AM
I used to play on bar tables a lot, while I was in the navy. One night, I made the eight on the break three racks in a row, hitting the second ball with inside. The cueball comes two rails out of the corner like a rocket, and hits the rack from behind, frequently driving the eight ball up table.

Stretch
01-30-2005, 06:36 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote JohnnyP:</font><hr> I used to play on bar tables a lot, while I was in the navy. One night, I made the eight on the break three racks in a row, hitting the second ball with inside. The cueball comes two rails out of the corner like a rocket, and hits the rack from behind, frequently driving the eight ball up table. <hr /></blockquote>

The problem i have with the second ball break is that you give up control of the cue ball a little too much. With low right and breaking from the right side you can come off the side rail and back out to centre which i believe is a little more prefferable to going around the horn and back into the stack. In both cases there are a lot of things that can go horrably wrong with the cue ball. Haveing said that some racks or tables take a second ball break better than others. It definately is a good alternative if the head on break is not giveing up anything.

For my money though it's the head on break. You get great transfer of energy into the pack and good cueball control. I place the cueball on the headstring i diamond approx. from the side rail and line up the head ball with the ball in behind the 8 in the forth row. If the rest of the pack was not there you would see it as a dead on natural combination long bank. You can adjust the cueball a little left or right at this point to ensure all three balls are on the long bank line. To get a good follow through stroke hit the break shot like your hitting the ball in the forth row instead. This set up and delivery DESTROYS racks and gives you control of the cue ball. The same settup can be used in 9 ball as well. Your going to make lots of nineballs on the break with this. St.

jjinfla
01-30-2005, 06:41 AM
2nd ball if I am trying to make the 8. Head ball if I am more interested in running out or just geting control of the table.

On a small bar box I follow Matlock's advice and got for the 2nd ball.

Jake

dg-in-centralpa
01-30-2005, 08:58 AM
I always go for the second ball. If I don't make the 8, I get a nice spread to start the game.

DG

ceebee
01-30-2005, 09:26 AM
I prefer the cue ball control scenario when I'm playing a good player. Giving up the table to a runout opponent is suicide. If a good player gets started on you, he'll runout or play the "3 balls in &amp; Hook U" game. If you don't have a good shot for offense or defense, after the break shot, you might be in jeopardy. the old "3 balls in &amp; Hook U" game does work, especially if your leaves are great.

In the book, Joe Tucker diagrams several different shots to make the lead ball, the second row ball, possibly the third row ball &amp; still maintain cue ball control.

Joe also diagrams the 2nd row &amp; 3rd row strike for a possible "8 on the break" shot. Joe gives you different options of cue ball spin too.

8 Ball is a thinking mans game. There are a grea deal of options at the front end of the game, but the options do dwindle as the game progresses. Good Cue Ball control will aid you in offense &amp; defense efforts.

Billy_Bob
01-30-2005, 09:51 AM
Every one of my break and runs has been with a head on break and a good spread of the balls. I don't think I've ever had a break and run when hitting the second ball.

And when I break them wide open, but don't get a ball in, the other player is usually kind enough to get many of his balls out of my way so I can run the table! (If league, other players usually will not run out - If money tournament, some players will run out.)

mworkman
01-30-2005, 11:36 AM
I've spent alot of time this year on my break. I play on 7' bar boxes in a league (allthough most of my practice was at home on an OS 8'before I sold it). I experimented with moving my break all around the table and also with the 2nd ball break. I was keeping stats on myself as to how many times I made a ball, whether I looked at cueball or object ball last, how many times I ran out, etc. I found that there wasn't much difference no matter what I tried. I'm currently using the 2nd ball break because not only is it a good break, but we get the win for it in the league I'm in. I hit it fairly hard with just low. I feel I can get a more consistant hit on the 2nd ball and I can still make the 8 without the extra side english. If this break is not working for me, I will move around till I find a good spot.

DialUp
01-30-2005, 01:36 PM
Head on, I get great spreads but rarely make a ball /ccboard/images/graemlins/frown.gif

Second ball, I make balls but the table is all clustered and the balls migrate to the top left of the table.


For casual play, I will go for the good spread. For competitive play, I'll go for making balls...

onepocketfanatic
01-30-2005, 09:49 PM
I actually change it up quite often. If I am not making anything on the break with head ball, I go for the second ball. I do agree that you have less whitey control when breaking with second ball, but if you are hitting head ball, making nothing, and getting run out on, you gotta change something. My 2 cents.

superstroke
01-31-2005, 08:11 AM
My friends that won the national championship in Vegas for bar table 8 ball would say the only break to use on a bar table is the second ball hit. That break really does give a good spread and pockets balls. That break does produce more 8 ball breaks, but in vegas for the bca the 8 on the break doesn't win, so that particular break must have more advantages then the 8 on the break...

christopheradams
02-01-2005, 06:41 AM
Anyone every try a kick shot second ball break. If you were good enough to actually hit the second ball off a kick on a regular basis you might be able to get a fuller hit on the second ball. Maybe I'll do a little experimenting tongiht at work(company pool table).

Deeman2
02-01-2005, 06:49 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote christopheradams:</font><hr> Anyone every try a kick shot second ball break. If you were good enough to actually hit the second ball off a kick on a regular basis you might be able to get a fuller hit on the second ball. Maybe I'll do a little experimenting tongiht at work(company pool table). <hr /></blockquote>

<font color="blue"> Only years ago in some one pocket games, just for a change. My feel is that you would lose too much speed off the cushion for an effective 8 ball break. I may be wrong. Let us know. </font color>

Deeman

christopheradams
02-01-2005, 07:02 AM
I usually hit the second ball break pretty easy anyway on 7 foot tables. You hit it too hard and the cue ball tends to fly off the table. Which is o.k. if it hits your opponent and it puts them out of commission /ccboard/images/graemlins/smile.gif.
That reminds of of that great trick shot I seen mike Massey shoot where he jumps the cue ball into his boot from like 10 feet away. Anyone see that shot on the trick shot competition on espn? Great shot!

superstroke
02-03-2005, 01:29 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote christopheradams:</font><hr> I usually hit the second ball break pretty easy anyway on 7 foot tables. You hit it too hard and the cue ball tends to fly off the table. Which is o.k. if it hits your opponent and it puts them out of commission /ccboard/images/graemlins/smile.gif.
That reminds of of that great trick shot I seen mike Massey shoot where he jumps the cue ball into his boot from like 10 feet away. Anyone see that shot on the trick shot competition on espn? Great shot! <hr /></blockquote>

You can hit it really hard without it flying off the table on the second ball hit if you stroke it right. You should practice the break sometime, you'd be surprised at what just a minimal amount of break practice makes a huge difference.

christopheradams
02-03-2005, 05:58 AM
You can hit it really hard without it flying off the table on the second ball hit if you stroke it right. You should practice the break sometime, you'd be surprised at what just a minimal amount of break practice makes a huge difference. <hr /></blockquote>
I also find I control the cue ball better with an easier stroke and have practiced the second ball break quite a bit. Especially when preparing for a few 8 ball tournaments I've played in. Mostly practicing my 9ball break now since I'm really trying to improve my 9ball game.
And while practicing, specifically on 7 foot tables, I found that the cue ball tends to jump off the table if you really lean on the break. And the spread is pretty good with medium speed. I think sometimes the balls tend to stun themselves when you whack em too hard. Take a look at Corey Deul's 7 ball break. He's got that down to a science. It's a grey area anyway since my idea of medium could be someone elses idea of a "sledge hammer break"

bluey2king
02-03-2005, 08:08 AM
I go for the second ball. I will try left and right sides.
I was hill, hill two weeks ago and Nailed a 8 ball from the left side! Always check for the cue ball before you celabrate...I have done that only to find that I scratched...**L**
Bluey

Fred Agnir
02-03-2005, 10:37 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote christopheradams:</font><hr> I tend to favor a head on break when I know I am getting good racks, but if I even suspect the head ball may be a little off, I go for the second ball break.<hr /></blockquote> Ditto

[ QUOTE ]
I've heard on 9 footers its better to hit the 3rd ball, anyone test this out? I mostly play 8ball on bar tables and 9 ball on the 9 footers and find the second ball break works great on the bar tables. <hr /></blockquote> Second ball on 9' tables is fine also

[ QUOTE ]
What is everyones take on the head on break versus the second ball break? Which Controls cue ball better? Which gives better spread? <hr /></blockquote> Since this is mostly a bar box question, I personally don't scratch as often using the second ball break, but the spread normally isn't as good as a head ball break. The head ball break, funny kicks will send the cueball into the head corners or the side pocket more often for me.

I like the second ball break if I'm not making a ball on the head break.

Fred

poolturtle
02-03-2005, 11:06 PM
[ QUOTE ]
For my money though it's the head on break. You get great transfer of energy into the pack and good cueball control. I place the cueball on the headstring i diamond approx. from the side rail and line up the head ball with the ball in behind the 8 in the forth row. If the rest of the pack was not there you would see it as a dead on natural combination long bank. You can adjust the cueball a little left or right at this point to ensure all three balls are on the long bank line. To get a good follow through stroke hit the break shot like your hitting the ball in the forth row instead. This set up and delivery DESTROYS racks and gives you control of the cue ball. The same settup can be used in 9 ball as well. Your going to make lots of nineballs on the break with this. St. <hr /></blockquote>

I just got through trying that style of break and loved it. I broke 6 times. sunk at least one ball on 4 of the tries, but the other 2, I didn't hit the head ball squarely. I scratched in the side once and in the corner once(the cue ball went off a rail and got kicked in). I'm going to spend some more time with it tomorrow and play around with the speeds and other details.