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Qtec
02-01-2005, 02:08 AM
<font color="blue"> For some, war equals profit.
</font color>
[ QUOTE ]
Exxon makes $25bn profit

David Teather in New York
Tuesday February 1, 2005
The Guardian

Exxon Mobil, the world's largest publicly quoted oil and gas firm, yesterday said it made $25bn (£13bn) in 2004, the highest profits in the company's history.
The earnings are roughly equal to the gross domestic product of Luxembourg or Guatemala, and higher than the individual GDPs of Syria, Bulgaria and Kenya.

The record profits were achieved on the back of the surge in oil and gas prices last year due to high demand and instability in some of the biggest producing nations.

The company, based in Irving, Texas, said revenues in the year rose to $298bn, up from $248bn in 2003. The earnings figure compared with $21.5bn in the previous year. Credit Suisse First Boston described the figures "as a particularly impressive set of results".



Shell to make history with $18bn profit

Oliver Morgan and Richard Wachman
Sunday January 30, 2005
The Observer

Oil giant Royal Dutch/Shell will this week unveil the largest profit in UK corporate history. Income after tax will climb to around $17.5 billion, and is likely to exceed the takings of its arch-rival BP, which reports the following week.
Despite last year being the Anglo-Dutch group's 'annus horribilis', thanks to the reserve downgrades scandal, it is expected to report its best-ever results. These will exceed previous corporate highwater marks reached by banking group HSBC, which made £7.7bn last year.

The pre-tax profit figure will be even larger - up to $32bn - but analysts do not focus on this because oil companies treat taxes paid in the countries in which they operate differently, so comparison is difficult.

But some forecasters believe Shell's after-tax number could exceed $18bn, and that the company will promise to hand back cash to shareholders via a share buyback or special dividend worth between $2bn and $5bn.

Shell's profits are expected to be about $1bn ahead of BP's. BP chairman Lord Browne stirred controversy last week when he said the group's cashflow was 'staggering'.

The performance comes on the back of last year's sustained period of high oil prices, thanks to a surge in demand from China, instabil ity in the Middle East and supply disruption and capacity shortages'" .



Oil firms fund climate change 'denial'

David Adam, science correspondent
Thursday January 27, 2005
The Guardian

Lobby groups funded by the US oil industry are targeting Britain in a bid to play down the threat of climate change and derail action to cut greenhouse gas emissions, leading scientists have warned.
Bob May, president of the Royal Society, says that "a lobby of professional sceptics who opposed action to tackle climate change" is turning its attention to Britain because of its high profile in the debate.

Writing in the Life section of today's Guardian, Professor May says the government's decision to make global warming a focus of its G8 presidency has made it a target. So has the high profile of its chief scientific adviser, David King, who described climate change as a bigger threat than terrorism.

Prof May's warning coincides with a meeting of climate change sceptics today at the Royal Institution in London organised by a British group, the Scientific Alliance, which has links to US oil company ExxonMobil through a collaboration with a US institute."





Something you wont find on Fox.
http://news.independent.co.uk/world/americas/story.jsp?story=606121

Flying over the Exxon Valdez the morning after, Ott watched as the vessel spewed millions of gallons of highly toxic oil into the sea. A bluish haze was rising above the oil. The official estimate of the spill was 11 million gallons, but years later Ott uncovered a secret report by the State of Alaska putting the true figure at about 30 million. The slick spread over 10,000 square miles of Alaska's coastal seas, as far as 1,200 miles away.

<hr /></blockquote>



Q

Gayle in MD
02-01-2005, 06:23 AM
When you think how little of the environmental technology that we already have is being used today to avoid the pollution of fossil fuels, and that we need to infuse our economy with more, better paying jobs, it makes you wonder why we keep voting for candidates who are in bed with the oil companies. /ccboard/images/graemlins/confused.gif

Gayle in Md.

DickLeonard
02-01-2005, 07:13 AM
Three Presidents from Texas and they all took us to War. Americans could possibly be the stupidest people on earth.
Our men go to War but our companies profit from it. Once an American live is put on the line all companies in the War Business should be taken over by the Government and all profits should go to the Country.

There was 4 Army Bases and 3 Air Force Bases in Texas and 30,000 Border Patrol Guards and the country is over run with illegal imigrients.####

Gayle in MD
02-01-2005, 08:55 AM
It is a disaster for sure. You would think that the borders, and illegal immigration would have been the first priority on our agenda after 9/11, along with getting bin Ladden, given the illegal methods they used to get in here in the first place. Bush seems to want to make it easier for them yet. I can't get over what happens to the crime rate in the areas with the most concentration of illegal immigrants. Wages drop, crime goes up, security is compromised, welfare costs go up. It's a disgrace that it isn't being more seriously addressed IMO.

/ccboard/images/graemlins/confused.gif
Gayle in Md.

DickLeonard
02-01-2005, 10:23 AM
My grandparents came from Ireland at a time when 30 to 40% of the imigrants were from Ireland. They had to learn the language, now we cater to a group that can't speak the language and most likely are illegal aliens. The only Gaelic I know is Pug a Mahon and that is resevered for George Bush. ####

hondo
02-01-2005, 11:25 AM
Eg's computer is on the blink so he asked me to
reply to you guys. " You're all ugly and your
mamas wear combat boots."

DickLeonard
02-01-2005, 12:41 PM
Hondo Eg8r doesn't know squat. The only thing lower than an Irish man was an Italian and we both overcame. I adding Ed to Georges list.####

SecaucusFats
02-01-2005, 01:39 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote DickLeonard:</font><hr> My grandparents came from Ireland at a time when 30 to 40% of the imigrants were from Ireland. They had to learn the language, now we cater to a group that can't speak the language and most likely are illegal aliens. The only Gaelic I know is Pug a Mahon and that is resevered for George Bush. #### <hr /></blockquote>

Dick,

Coming from a supposedly enlightened liberal like yourself, your statement is redolent of bigotry.

You should be careful when making generalized statements such as: "a group that can't speak the language and most likely are illegal aliens".

I'm Hispanic and I certainly don't have any problems expressing myself in English ( or Spanish), and neither do 99.9% of my Hispanic-American friends, or the Hispanic-American members of my family (none of whom are illegal aliens BTW).

I do not support illegal immigration and have stated as much quite a few times right here in this forum. It may surprise you but there are many, many other Hispanics who feel the same regarding as I do on the issue.

FYI, Hispanics are neither a homogenous, nor monolithic group, by any standards including race, religion, culture, and politics.

And one other thing Irish immigrants all spoke English (the English had already seen to that), oh they may have known Gaelic as well, but the fact is they spoke English.

Italian, Polish, Jewish and other immigrants had their own newspapers in their own languages and banded together in tightly knit neighborhoods just as recently arrived immigrants do today. It is sheer nonsense to believe that first generation immigrants in the 19th and early 20th Century stepped off the ships and became God-fearing, English speaking uber-patriots, in mere weeks.

eg8r
02-01-2005, 02:37 PM
Hey DUH, I can speak for myself.

eg8r

eg8r
02-01-2005, 02:38 PM
[ QUOTE ]
Hondo Eg8r doesn't know squat. <hr /></blockquote> Another catchy quote from the "intelligent" party. /ccboard/images/graemlins/tongue.gif

eg8r &lt;~~~ Doesn't know squat, but does not sit around and just listen and agree with the drivel from DickL

DickLeonard
02-01-2005, 04:15 PM
Eg8r I was just trying to sound like a right wing wacko only from the left. Now you know how Gayle and I feel when we read your posts.####

wolfdancer
02-01-2005, 06:24 PM
War is big business....I read a story a while back on the huge
profits our patriotic mega-companies made during WWII

wolfdancer
02-01-2005, 06:28 PM
lol !!!

Gayle in MD
02-01-2005, 08:28 PM
LMAO! Too funny! Believe me dick, he can't begin to imagine that! /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif
Gayle in Md.

hondo
02-02-2005, 06:08 AM
Eg, like you I would never want to offend a fellow
creature of God so please accept my humble apology.



<blockquote><font class="small">Quote eg8r:</font><hr> Hey DUH, I can speak for myself.

eg8r <hr /></blockquote>

Gayle in MD
02-02-2005, 06:08 AM
Dear SF,
We all know that there are many good and hard working Spanish and Latino folks here in our country. I know Dick, and I know he didn't mean what he said to include all Spanish/Americans, only those who come here illegally, looking for a free ride.

This is a good example of how our government sometimes takes an action which has bad repurcussions on race relations. The Bush agenda to give amnesty to those criminals who came here illegally, will stir up bad feelings from those who worked hard, saved their money, and came here legally to start a new and productive life for themselves and their families, such as your family did, and mine and Dick's.

My Dad used to tell me that his Dad wouldn't let them speak Italian when they were growing up. "We're American, speak English," my grandfather would say. They all learned some Italian by listening to their parents talk in Italian to one another, but they insisted their children speak the language of the country where they lived. Some folks think that all Italians are connected to the mafia! LOL.

It isn't good for race relations when the government decides to give away to some, what others have had to work so hard to aquire, because people get annoyed about it, and that leads to misunderstandings.

I hope I won't offend you or Dick, I guess I am speaking for him here, and he can speak for himself, but I know Dick, and you won't find a kinder nicer person than Dick Leonard.

As you said, you are against the idea of amnesty for illegal immigrants. So am I, and I am sure, so is Dick. The misunderstanding here is a function of bad government decisions, aka Bush!

Love,
Gayle

eg8r
02-02-2005, 07:11 AM
[ QUOTE ]
Eg8r I was just trying to sound like a right wing wacko only from the left. Now you know how Gayle and I feel when we read your posts.#### <hr /></blockquote> LOL, this is coming from the intelligent left? You cannot find anything constructive to say, your party is losing steam, and the best you can do is "try" to act out your perception of a Conservative. Sad, very sad. Don't worry, I am sure someone like Gayle will get a kick out of your antics.

eg8r

DickLeonard
02-02-2005, 07:21 AM
Fats here is how Bigotted I am. I believe every Southern black man and women over 80 should be given 5 million dollars as reparation for their family being put into slavery. Every family that can trace their exsistance to slavery should be justly compensated. Not just given the right to ride the bus which happened in the 60s.

100+ years after the civil war they were still treated as second class citizens. We are spending 500 billion dollars to free Iraq and give them the right to vote and we still haven't freed the black man to vote in this country. If they were allowed to vote in Florida in 2000 we wouldn't be Irag now.####

DickLeonard
02-02-2005, 07:34 AM
Gayle this post brings me back to my youth with 20 or so Irish Women meeting in our dining and living room and all speaking Gaelic. The Ancient Order of Hiberians met in homes because they didn't have clubhouses at that time.

I do believe they were the Womens Branch of the IRA. In third grade our teacher wanted us to come to school and speak your native tongue. I had my mother ask my grandmother to teach me some Gaelic for school. She said no I don't want him to know what we are saying.

I was taught Gaelic for a thousand welcomes and sit down and that was it. Puga Mahone meant kiss my ass so I couldn't use that in school. That is reserved for George Bush and Eg8r.

Gayle in MD
02-02-2005, 07:50 AM
Dick, LOL, you're a riot. I know you don't have a racist bone in your body, we all tend to rush sometimes when we post, without thinking through every single word. I can see how SF would have taken your post though, it just needed a little editing.

My Mom was English, Irish, and German, Dad was Italian, all came here for a better life. The Irish, German, Italian, all faced discrimination.

The black people faced the most discrimination, IMO, surpassed only by women, as a group, who have been discriminated against, and continue to be descriminated against in our society, still paid less for the same work performed by men.

And, just think what we did to the American Indians. Makes you wonder how these "My country right or wrong" types can justify being unwilling to judge any act by our country on its merit, or lack of merit, rather than only through their partisan beliefs.

/ccboard/images/graemlins/confused.gif
Love,
Gayle

SnakebyteXX
02-02-2005, 10:09 AM
I was 14 when we moved to a small town in what was to eventually become known as the "Wine Country".

Many of the kids I went to high school with were from Italian/American families that had been here since the last half of the Nineteenth Century. Some of them spoke better Italian than English. Some of their grandparents spoke little or no English at all. A few of these kids came from families that had been growing grapes and making wine since before Prohibition. Some you may even recognize: Rafanelli - Pedroncelli - Sebastiani?

The migrant Hispanic workers first came to this area back in the 1950's to work the vineyards and the orchards. Vineyard and orchard work is hard and not all that appealing to soft Americans. It wasn't as if there were a lot of locals out-competed for these jobs. The vast majority of locals didn't want them and considered this kind of work to be beneath them.

In general, the Hispanic workers I've known were willing to work long hours for low pay. Between saving money to send back to Mexico and paying for food and clothing many had little left over to spend on amenities like a roof over their head. In the early years they often lived in abysmal conditions because they had no other choice - they lived in hovels set up on the backs of ranches without running water or electricity. Although times have changed and conditions have improved substandard living conditions are still not that uncommon.

The benefit for local farmers has always been and continues to be a cheap labor pool of hard workers willing to do a job that most Americans flatly refuse to do. The benefit for the Hispanic workers (both legal and illegal) has been a source of income that they can depend on.

When I read posts here from those of you whose families came over on the boat from Italy or Ireland (or where ever) generations ago I think about the hardships they suffered when they first arrived - the bigotry they experienced from the 'real' Americans who were only more 'real' because they got here sooner - how hard they worked to survive and how in the long term their addition to America has been a boon.

I also get a glimmer of bias in some of these posts towards the 'new' immigrants strikingly similar to what those European transplants must have suffered when they first arrived.

Imagine for a moment what things would have been like/would be like if both Ireland and Italy had common borders with the US? How many illegal Italians and illegal Irish would we have here now?

Personally, I think a principal difference between the 'legal' immigrants that had to cross and ocean to get here and the 'illegal' immigrants that simply have to walk across the border to arrive is geography.

Just my two cents.

Snake

hondo
02-02-2005, 11:05 AM
AND Duh,don't forget Duh. I'm ignorant enough to
get a kick out of his antics. Just about anything
that annoys you pleases me to no end. Lord, that
was a juvenile post by me... but, I'm just trying
to live up to your low expectations, o wise one.


. Don't worry, I am sure someone like Gayle will get a kick out of your antics.

eg8r <hr /></blockquote>

Gayle in MD
02-02-2005, 12:40 PM
I think you make many good points in your post, and they are quite valid points, especially for an era like the fifties.

Times have changed. The number of illegal immigrants per year, this has changed drastically. The security of our country, regarding terrorists, drastic change from the fifties. The strain on our services and benefits, our economy, the relationship between violent crime and the illegal immigrant population in any given area, drastic change from the fifties. The willingness, or ability, of our officials to oversee immigration in general, legal or illegal, ....again, drastic change from the fifties. Even the kinds of jobs which immigrants move into when they get over here, drastic change, no longer just in the farming arena, but in many cases, in construction jobs, small business, multifaceted positions, and often they are able to work under the table, but still find illegal ways of taking advantage of benefits for which we all pay.

I agree with much of what you have written, but I think some recognition of how different things are these days, and the resulting impact from the influx of illegal immigrants, in numbers, and effect, should be included into the fray.

Gayle in Md.

SnakebyteXX
02-02-2005, 03:08 PM
[ QUOTE ]
Times have changed. The number of illegal immigrants per year, this has changed drastically.

<font color="blue">I agree that times have changed. Yes, there are most definitely more illegals now than there once were. It's interesting to note that most of the ones we see in my neck of the woods still manage to find an honest means to support themselves. </font color>

The security of our country, regarding terrorists, drastic change from the fifties.

<font color="blue">Gayle, it is physically impossible to seal off the north and south borders of the US not to mention the thousands of miles of our coastline. If you doubt this do some research on the estimated annual import of illegal narcotics. You'll find that it's estimated in the hundreds of tons.

Could we enhance the security of our country by curtailing the number of illegal Mexican immigrants that cross our borders each year? Maybe. Can it be done? Historical evidence to date indicates no.

Unless you're prepared to see the equivalent of the Berlin Wall built along our southern border with guard towers every few yards - mine fields - dogs - shoot to kill orders etc. It's not bloody likely.

In the meantime the last estimate I remember reading indicated that there are something like eleven million illegals in this country already. Should we round them all up and deport them? If so, who’s going to handle this massive undertaking and how much would it cost?
</font color>

The strain on our services and benefits, our economy, the relationship between violent crime and the illegal immigrant population in any given area, drastic change from the fifties.

<font color="blue">I'll grant you the additional strain on services and benefits. But violent crime has been an aspect of nearly every major immigration of the poor into this country including the Italians and the Irish (Mafia ring a bell?). Time and again violent crime has been proven to be more readily connected to poverty than it is to nationality. </font color>

The willingness, or ability, of our officials to oversee immigration in general, legal or illegal, ....again, drastic change from the fifties.

<font color="blue"> I spent a little time in El Paso, Texas a few years ago. As I drove along the US highway adjacent to the Rio Grande I could see Mexicans wading across the river headed into El Paso. I also saw well worn paths that indicated this was not an uncommon event. The funny thing was that at the end of the day I saw Mexicans wading BACK across the river headed to their homes in Mexico.

In my area most of the resident illegal Mexicans that I have come to know personally still have family in Mexico. In fact, much like the El Paso Mexicans, most of them travel back and forth across the border to visit family. Although they don't do so casually. Getting back home to Mexico is easy - coming back is not so easy. It usually involves paying a 'Coyote' upwards of two thousand dollars a head to get you safely across.

Most of the illegals I know send money to Mexico to help support their families. Many of them have plans to return to Mexico once they've saved up enough money to buy their own farms and their own homes.

Then there are a few that I know who came here intending to go back and are now stuck with one foot in both worlds. These are the folks who had young children when they moved here and have since raised their kids sending them to American schools. Their kids are AMERICAN kids now not MEXICAN kids. At least they seem to think that they are.
</font color>

Even the kinds of jobs which immigrants move into when they get over here, drastic change, no longer just in the farming arena, but in many cases, in construction jobs, small business, multifaceted positions, and often they are able to work under the table, but still find illegal ways of taking advantage of benefits for which we all pay.

<font color="blue">What I've seen is illegals who are willing to work harder and longer than your average 'American'. I've seen illegals who are more honest, do a better job and for less money than your average 'American'. Why should I hire some lame-o, lazy-ass, 'citizen' and pay him top dollar to do a crappy job when I can get a first rate worker that I can trust?

The funny part about all this is that contrary to some popular beliefs illegals often fulfill a vital function in the economy. They allow small businesses to survive that would otherwise not be able to keep their doors open. In our local farming community they've made the difference between farmers being able to harvest their crops and make a living and going under. The impact has been that dramatic. Many times it's been a matter of economic survival -

My guess is that if the Immigration folks could somehow magically remove those eleven million illegals from our country - the economy would suffer dramatically in their absence. Further my guess is that those in charge of immigration duties are aware that this is so and that illegals are generally allowed to come and go with the tacit approval of local governments.

</font color>

I agree with much of what you have written, but I think some recognition of how different things are these days, and the resulting impact from the influx of illegal immigrants, in numbers, and effect, should be included into the fray. <hr /></blockquote>

Gayle, I don't think that all Mexican illegals are desirable by any means nor do I believe that unfettered immigration comes without a price.

I honestly don't see a ready solution to the problem. On the other hand I do see many similarities in the work ethic of first generation immigrants be they illegal or otherwise. There is something that drives people who have come out of abject poverty in their home country to make a better life for themselves and their children once they get here. That's what I've seen - and everything else notwithstanding (particularly illegality) I can't help but admire them for it.

Snake

Gayle in MD
02-02-2005, 06:38 PM
A very interesting post my friend, and you are so right, this is a very complex issue. One thing that may factor into our seeing things a bit differently is that we, (You and I) live in two very different parts of the country.

While my home is in a somewhat rural area, South of Annapolis, just off the West River, which is just off the Chesapeake Bay, I am only forty-five minutes SE of Washington D.C., and forty-five minutes south of Baltimore. I am probably seeing a very different result here than you are in your area.

From my heart, far be it from me to wish to deprive any hard working honest people to carve a better life for themselves and their children here in the US. I can only say this much, as I am certainly no expert in immigration, something must be done to address the problems we are seeing in Washington DC, Bethesda, and Baltimore. I know this only from watching the area news. It doesn't impact my everyday life, but it is definately a negative impact on the areas I mention.

Thank you for the post though, I can understand where you are coming from.

Gayle in Md.

DickLeonard
02-03-2005, 06:50 AM
This I can remember from my youth if someone in your neighborhood lost their job,got sick,etc. Everyone in the neighborhood kept filling a grocery basket of their canned food,baked goods etc and it was delivered to the family, there was no welfare system as we know it today just neighbors helping.
My mothers fruit cake was still good 2 years later. Everyone canned because of the war effort. I can't remember when that system fell apart.

Something was lost then that can't be replaced.####

DickLeonard
02-03-2005, 06:58 AM
Snbite in the 1800s/1900s the Irish were a coming now it's better in Ireland than it is here and no one wants to leave. In fact those of us with 100% Irish blood can apply for dual citizenship and a new trend has started.


You can sit at the dock where Guiness docks its brewery ship and drink Guiness right off the boat.It's like Heaven on Earth.####

SnakebyteXX
02-03-2005, 07:23 AM
[ QUOTE ]
In fact those of us with 100% Irish blood can apply for dual citizenship <hr /></blockquote>

Dick,

My dad was stationed in Londonderry shortly after the end of WWII. That's where I was born. Not only am I eligible for dual citizenship as a result but so are all my children. My daughter applied for and was granted an Irish passport almost three years ago. Things like that can come in handy. So far she has used it to visit Cuba and to travel through Europe.

Snake &lt;-- All-American parents and an Irish birth certificate almost as long as his arm.

Qtec
02-03-2005, 07:49 AM
Londonderry is in N Ireland. If you were born there you should be entitled to a British passport, not an Irish one.

I think.... /ccboard/images/graemlins/ooo.gif

Q

SnakebyteXX
02-03-2005, 08:10 AM
[ QUOTE ]
Londonderry is in N Ireland.
<font color="blue"> Ummm... yes I'm quite aware of that. Commonly referred to as 'Derry' by those who'd prefer to avoid the English reference. </font color>

If you were born there you should be entitled to a British passport, not an Irish one.
<hr /></blockquote>

Thanks for trying to straighten this out for me. My daughter went through the Irish Consulate to get her passport using my birth certificate as a reference.

Check the last entry on the bottom of this web page:


IRISH CITIZENSHIP BY DESCENT (http://www.irelandemb.org/fbr.html)

Or here:

Anyone born on the island of Ireland is entitled to Irish citizenship (http://indigo.ie/~kwood/citizenship.htm)

A little further checking indicates that I may also be eligible for British citizenship by dent of my N. Ireland birth but that this status is not conferable to my children.

[ QUOTE ]
I was born in Northern Ireland. Am I British?

If you were born before 1 January 1983, the answer is yes (unless your father was an Irish diplomat).

If neither parent was a British citizen, you will still be British automatically if either of your parents was 'settled' in the UK. This is defined as being ordinarily resident and having permission to stay indefinitely in the UK. Irish citizens are given this permission automatically, so the only issue would be whether your parents were living in Northern Ireland at the time you were born. If that was the case, then you are British automatically, if not (eg they were on holidays) then you will not be British from birth.

If your parents later went to live in the UK, you could apply to register as a British citizen up to your 18th birthday.


You need to be a British citizen (or have some other category of British nationality) to get a British passport, but the reverse is not true. There is no obligation on any British citizen to get a British passport to activate his/her British citizenship

<hr /></blockquote>

Link (http://www.reform.org/TheReformMovement_files/article_files/Treaties/citizenship.htm)

Snake

hondo
02-03-2005, 01:09 PM
I love this Irish stuff. My father's side are
Moneypenny and Layfield- Northern Irish.
My mother's side are Tippens, Haney, and Annegan-
Southern Irish.
Little wonder they got divorced.